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Trent (sorry about the rant to follow,,, just reread not intended for you personally) im sure you understand ...

I wish to thank you for your professionalism, for waiting for the family to be notified!!! I have been scouring to find out what happened to my friend and am thankful that (his/ your group) have the class to wait till the next of kin is notified..
His passing has hit many circles, speaking from "a small one" This tragedy is far reaching and deeply regrettable. I attempt to understand the addiction however question ones risk assessment abilities/standards when in pursuit of the obvious.... Landing! However ... it is ones right to choose to participate in such actions , I just question whether or not the execution of the individual right has been exercised with full understanding as to the extent in which ones decisions may affect all who DEPEND on them?

I know im not the first , nor the last (unfortunately) that will post such feelings . I dare not forbid such activity nor wish to trample individual choice. however, I would ask those who have people who depend, admire or rely upon them (ie to walk them down the Isle) , to make choices bigger than personal gain. if you really want to take a risk try .... living to be a role model. (sorry ignorantly angry)

I mean no disrespect to any!! members of this sport .. I have read many tech dissertations as to the complexities of the events and respect them... however I have yet to read any accolades paid to family support.. It is my ignorant opinion that this is truly a sport of selfish persons and i remain at the disposal of a family in mourning. If anyone wishes to truly challenge me .. I will see you at the funeral!!

Whats your excuse?

Please note that if it wasn't for this information system then "facts" may have been forever lost .... a back handed thank you to all who post information ... in an attempt to achieve closure in the not so recent future

One can not prevent others to find their happiness in their own way- be it base, skydiving or else..

I am truly sorry for your loss but I ask you look at this from a different perspective. We do what makes us happy. Asking us not to do so for you or anyone asking us not to do so for them is selfish. When someone I care about asks me to stop or asks me to think what would happen to them if I died I tell them the same thing. Number one stop feeling bad for yourself. The emotion is truly relying on you feeling sorry for yourself because you will miss them. I have come to terms with the potential outcome of my actions as we all have. Number two, what makes you think you are going to live any longer then me? My life may have some extra risks associated with it but that doesn't mean that you will live any longer. I am a semi religious person and when our time comes it comes. What makes you happy? If someone you love sat you down and asked you to stop doing the thing you love for them would you? This sport has no easy answers when it comes to ones choice to participate. You cant explain it to others because the feeling you get jumping is one that cant be explained, only felt. Don't hate because we are enjoying our selves! I love my sport or to all the other jumper out there our sport. So I will jump until i am incapable, go in, or decide that the sport is no longer for me. Sorry for being so blunt.

Eric

I am very sorry for your loss. It really really sucks to lose someone you care about.

I feel capable of answering your question in a roundabout way. It's, not surprisingly, one that comes up a lot from us non-jumpers (I am not a BASE jumper, just a relative of one [my brother]).

I worry quite a bit that I will lose my brother at a young age from his participation in sports and activities like BASE, but instead of looking at it as him being selfish/not thinking about HIS impact, I think of my worry as my own issue. All people are interconnected with those around them--it's the nature of living in society and having families. Instead of focusing on how much my brother would be hurting me by dying in one of these sports, I have to think about how much it would hurt my brother to try to stop him, or to be disappointed instead of awed. He could quit and die in an automobile accident the next day--and how is that better?

I do consider BASE jumping a selfish act. But I think it's more selfish to look at a loved one BASE jumping and come to the conclusion that they should stop because of the potential pain it would cause me. Granted, my brother does not have dependents in the form of offspring, so it's different for different people.

And, quite honestly, BASE jumpers have been the best role models for me so that's already happened. Being around the BASE community was what initiated my decision to switch schools and pursue a career that would actually make me happy, instead of one that would end up with me bored and insane.

Again, I am sorry for your loss. Death sucks, pretty much across the board. I don't want to make you feel like I'm attacking your thoughts--you obviously had to say them, and I hope it helped you. Take care.

The very first hour (or hour and a half) of every single course I give is a discussion of the risks and who they can impact. I very carefully (and with many examples) discuss with the students the potential impact of their decisions on other people, especially their family and friends. As part of this discussion we talk about appropriate planning (and insurance) to make sure that those dependent on a jumper are cared for should an accident take place.

At the end of the lecture, I require each and every student to write a letter to their family explaining that they have died BASE jumping. I do this for three reasons (which I explain to the students, and leave written on the white board during the letter writing). In order of importance, those reasons are:

1) To make each student carefully evaluate where BASE fits within the framework of their life, and how their decisions will effect those around them, especially their family and friends, and especially, especially, especially their children (I have two, myself). And to make them really sit and consider, then feel, the potential their decisions have for changing the lives of those around them.

2) To help the family with the grieving process in the event of a future fatality. When someone dies after an illness, there is a chance for the family to gather around and say goodbye. When someone is taken in an accident (of any kind), they are simply...gone. Having a last message from them is an invaluable aid to their family and friends in finding closure for their grieving process.

3) It acts as the waiver for my course.


Sadly I have had to deliver a couple of those letter to family months (or years) later. It's one of the least pleasant, but perhaps most important, parts of teaching.

I have gotten a significant amount of criticism from the BASE community over this portion of my course. I will continue to do it because I think that it is very, very important.

... it is ones right to choose to participate in such actions , I just question whether or not the execution of the individual right has been exercised with full understanding as to the extent in which ones decisions may affect all who DEPEND on them?
________________________________________________

So you think that they're not only selfish, but dumb, too?

Willy most certainly did have a full understanding


Since your profile is not filled in "Rayzor78" you'll have to introduce yourself to me at the funeral

This is Steve Baich, and that was a mindblowing comment. See ya there.

I suspect Rayzor78 was thinking more about the children the deceased left behind when he wrote his post. My own personal view is that with respect to all family members other than a jumper's children, I agree the effect the jumper's death would have on them should not be a determinant of whether the jumper jumps or not. But once the jumper has children, I believe everything should change.

When you bring a child into the world, you really need to be prepared to put your own wants and desires secondary to their well-being. That doesn't mean their wants always trump your own. But I believe it does mean it is time to give up pursuits such as BASE or even skydiving, in which the consequences of failure are usually death, at least until you have fulfilled your parental duties and they are grown and on their own. I think that was what Rayzor78 was getting at, and if so, I agree.

Parents, spouses and siblings are one thing, but children are totally different. They are depending on their parents not as a result of emotional weakness or neediness, but by necessity. And I understand any of us could step off a curb and get hit by a bus, but there are things we HAVE to do that expose us to risk (i.e., drive, go to work, the store, etc.) and things we just choose to do for personal gratification. BASE falls into that latter category, and I believe that once people have children to raise and care for, things in that category that involve a very high risk of death should be suspended until the kids are on their own.

This is Steve Baich a.k.a Sparky, Willy's right hand man. Your comments are disrespectful to his character. Trent did a great job explaining the details of his accident, the exact details that his wife wants explained so that she can have a clear understanding of what happened. And yes she did ask me and our close friends to explain the straight facts to help here start understanding as to why this tragic accident occurred. You use the word "challenge", thats hard to do because you don't even have a profile here. What's your excuse?

BASE JUMPING SAVED MY LIFE

I am not in a position to tell people what makes sense in their lives, when they balance their own personal risks and rewards. Each person must do that for themselves.

I can tell you that I've cut my jumping back quite a lot, and greatly reduced what risks I find acceptable, partly because I have children now. I get a lot of criticism about that from other jumpers, but again, I do it because it is the right decision for me, based on my own judgment.

I can ask my students to think about those issues, and have them perform exercises calculated to make them think long and hard.

I can tell you that anyone who was at Bridge Day 2006 knows without a doubt that Will Heidelbrecht was completely aware of the risks he was taking, and had made his own, personal, adult decision to take those risks, based on his own responsibilities, and his own feelings about risk and reward.

I cannot tell you, or anyone else, what the "right" decision is. That's for you to decide for yourself.

Generates the same reaction from me Robin, and I have two kids, so what does that mean. Maybe it means to each his own. I don't judge people for quitting jumping because they have kids, and I ask for the same respect in return.

I'm glad you emphasised that your statement was only your beliefs. I'd hate to think you were trying to make all of us parents feel guilty!

Condolenses to family and friends.

rayzor78 referred to personal gain as an impetus to BASE.

i respect these opinions, they are valid.

i've had my struggles with the issue.

individuals who choose to BASE or expose themselves to some life threatening/ending activity are driven by some yet to be diagnosed need. we understand the risks, in BASE probably more so, we accept them and do our best to mitigate them.

some of us need a little extra jolt to feel alive and content.

I've removed an inappropriate side discussion, the main exchange appeared designed to grate, annoy, and showed little sensitivity. it knocked the conversation totally off the track.

Skypuppy is spot on. Having kids shouldn't be the end of your life. Hell, my dad rode a motorcycle all throughout my childhood. If he died doing that, I wouldn't think he was selfish for doing what he loved. There is no need to ride a motorcycle to work, and according to you, my dad is selfish for riding a motorcycle for personal gratification. Is that right?

This isn't about the risk at all, because quite frankly I would say riding a motorcycle is more risky than BASE. This is about the stigma against BASE jumpers as being adrenaline junkies. It's all the same in the end. One man finds happiness off a cliff, another on a crotch rocket. Who are you to say he was selfish?

At any rate, my condolences to the family.

I have been skydiving since 1986, and did first base jump 1988. My brother have been motorbiking (just for fun in a club, and went to "gatherings" since 1982. Remember this is the period the first street R bikes showing up, and they use the public roads to test their skills. The norwegian roads is or was not the best race tracks.

My guess is we both have meet the same amount of people who have really pushed the limits.

I have met, travelled and been friends with 36 jumpers who died doing what they loved not including skydiving, which would get the number close to 45, and my brother less than 10.

I guess the total active base jumpers I have meet during my time I was jumping have been around 300 jumpers. Not all of them have been pushing the lead limits, but most of them have been pushing their own limit.

Out of 63 jumpers at kl Tower and Petronas 2002 and 38 of almost the same jumpers from Jin Mao 2004, had 6 of them died base jumping at the end of 2004.

We are talking about a group among 10 % of some of the most experienced and talented jumpers in the world from that time of period.

when you braking down the numbers to statistic, what do you think?

If you then compare to how many base and skydives I Have, hours and minutes, you will see a significant difference between those two activities even when you only count when they racing bikes at the streets.

Speed street bikes in that time 230 - 300Km/h+

I'm not going to play the numbers game, it's all been done before. I don't have the time or desire to pull up motorcycle death statistics and try to prove a point. I am pretty certain it's been proven that driving a car has a higher death percentage than skydiving, and motorcycling higher than cars.

Anyway, my post wasn't about numbers, it's about the philosophy that just because someone engages in risky behavior it means they are selfish. It doesn't matter if 10 or 100 of the motorcyclists your brother knew died, in the end it's all the same, and yet, base jumpers are looked upon as being selfish, while motorcyclists, usually are not.

If you die in a war, motorbike or other extreme sport do not matter for the kid. But the fact you are dead do matter! I do not judge you for your behavior, it is your choice only!

This is Jeff Loucks. I have been helping the family with all of the details since the accident. I would like to thank Steve, Lonnie, Taylor and Evan for being great friends both to Will and to his wife.

His wife is not bitter and I cannot speak for the children. Will attracted a very close group of friends and he has a great family. The support will be there for this family. Will was aware of the risk and made plans accordingly.

As a non-base jumper I would not change a thing about my friend Will. He was an inspiration because he loved life and seized every bit of joy from every minute of it. His wife loved every aspect of this man and she loved the sport while encouraging caution towards the risks.

Will's life should be celebrated. He made very positive contributions to so many people. We love him for who he was and will always derive passion for life from memories of times with him.

If there are technical things which can be learned and would improve the safety of the sport Will would appreciate the increased vigilance of those who seek for them.

I hope I make you proud Will and I promise to be there for your family.

If you really, really, really twist the statistics in your favour, then yeah, sure it has. If you use numbers that actually attempt to reflect the real world, not so much.

Anyway, this is all besides the point. (There is actually one very clear lesson/point of consideration here and still people get sidetracked.) Honestly, changing PC location is something I've never thought/felt is an issue for me, maybe because I'm a compulsive PC toucher on the exit point! Although while I've switched between BOC/tracking and legpouch/WS in the same day before I haven't ever switched between BOC/WS and legpouch/WS. If I do ever do that I'll keep in mind to be absolutely sure to drill home the correct pull location before going.

Thanks Trent for letting us know what happened, and condolences.

I don´t think that one could use car driving as a realistic comparison to BASE jumping, Unless of course one uses BASE jumping as a means of transportation to and from work, school, shopping etc.
Hey kids, back in the day, we freefell, barefooted, to school and back, downhill.
take care,
space

My son who is just ten years old is my only child, lives with me and means the world to me. I cannot face the possibility that one day I won't be here for him because I chose "my pleasure" over my "parental responsibility" (and most of all my love for him)

I still jump but I definitely think thrice about the riskiness of each jump. I feel safer doing terminal jumps so I have invested in a terminal specific rig and intend this type of jumping to be the best option for the immediate future.

I never used to feel like this but now that I'm older my views have changed.

John

THAT'S what Tom and I (and others) are talking about -- adjusting attitude and risk parameters to synchronize pleasure and parental responsibility.

my choice is a little different: potato jumps only for now, and I leave my gear up there to eliminate any temptation to do otherwise.

Actually, there's a DZ owner's kid who will one day be able to say something close to that to his kid:

"Back in the day, I walked through a foot of snow and climbed an icy ladder to jump an antenna on my way to school."

44

To conquer without risk is to triumph without glory.

Pierre Corneille
(1606-1684, French dramatist)

My Dad has loved motorcycles ever since I can remember but couldn't understand my thinking when I started skydiving, I was just like "what ever man if I die then thats what happens." Not too long ago he went and bought a new hog and just about everyone in my family criticized him for it and said he would just kill himself.( He said the same to me when I started skydiving and told him I was getting into base) Well one day he almost did due to a dumb thing like not paying enough attention to the road TURNING! It scared the hell out of me. It made me think a little more about the risk I take and how it may affect the people around me. It also made him realize that what I do is not crazy but something that makes me happy just like when he's cruising down the hwy at 90mph.
He still rides that hog with a little more understanding of my point of view and I continue jumping with a little more understanding of his. We both understand the risk. People get hit by busses because of simple mistakes like not looking both ways before crossing and base jumpers go in because of a simple mistake like remembering where the PC is. There's not much difference to me, the lesson is still the same......be careful no matter what you do because shit happens, stupid hurts, and we are all just human.
Just the opinion of someone who's opinion doesn't really matter.

You guys are arguing about semantics in a fatality thread. I think we all know what you're saying, and it's likely we all actually agree with each other.

Let's, please, start another thread if you want to hammer at the semantics?

since users continued the semantic bantering after your request, I've started removing them.

it's such poor form in an Incident thread. the deceased made his choice. each person reading this can make their own decisions as well.

I've separated this discussion from the fatality post, so that those who wish to continue in this vein may do so without impairing discussion on the facts of that specific incident.