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Have you ever PCA'd or Static Lined this tarp?

Thank you in advance for anything helpful.

I did a search for it on the forum. So far, I haven't read any posts by anyone else who has.

FYI Gang,

I successfully static lined a newbie off of Wanda.
He had a 225 sized canopy. It opened with at
about the same speed as a Dagger. Fine for 315
feet but definitely no good for the dirty low shit.

Disclaimer - a sample size of one is definitely
NOT a robust test of the canopy's performance.

Too scared to run it yourself?

I weigh ~192, hence I usually jump 280's.
I have jumped BASE canopies 260 to 300
but a 225 would not be a smart choice for
a low antenna with hungry trees.

Just In Case

Naked Body Weight + 100 = Ideal Canopy
or ~0.75 wing loading for those who know
how to do math.

Would a low antenna with hungry trees be a smart choice for a Newbie though even at a preoper loading? Hmmm.....

i believe the trees the green guy speaks of are not "NY hungry" and the antenna is not "NY low"...so yes, for a static line newbie, no worries...have to admit, i was nervous as shit everytime i freefell that bitch on one of the sketchy sides though

--Brian

So like I said. You were too scared to run it. Low antenna? I thought you said it was 300 feet? And a static line to boot. What the fuck are you scared of?
On a serious side though. Why would you put a newbie on a canopy you have absolutely no clue about?

To: Fledgling

Slow your roll dude...

Newbie as in his first bandit jump and first antenna,
but it was his 6th BASE jump and since he owns a
BASER he had jumped that canopy many times.

I researched the idea before allowing it to happen:
posted on hear, spoke w/ Sonic, spoke w/ Tom A.

I know 315 feet is NOT low by Austrialian standards
and honestly not low for me, (probabaly half of my
jumps are between 180 and 315 feet) but for most
people it is on the low side and definitely for a guy
who had only hucked the NRGB five times.

I told him he could either do a PCA or a static line
because it was his first time BASE jumping with me,
his lowest jump, etc. He chose to do a static line so
he could practice rigging one up.


Directed to PAINTitBLACK, yep, I know that a
parachute's size can affect its opening speed;
smaller wings have less nylon to unravel.

What the fuck does that mean? You must have been hanging around punk kids too long.


I'm sure that was a very informative discussion.

315 feet is not low by any ones standards.

And static lined.

At least we agree there.

How lucky for him. The only advice you should have given him is to stop jumping that piece of shit.

this topic seems to be getting a bit heated, and I'm not sure why.

- the original post about using the Sonic parachute was posted in mid Aug, and no one said anything.

- I can't tell if Green is attempting to mentor, or just share the friendliest object he has with a visitor.

- it sounds like the newbie supplied the parachute in question, not Green. thus, why would he know how well it works? (maybe that is why he posted a request for more info over a month ago?)

- 300 ft may not be that low to some, but if it is the newbie's lowest object, it will seem low. isn't PCA the standard deployment method for training at the 486 ft S? am I the only jumper to see every jumper on a load get PCA'd, except for the last jumper? (being alone on the object, the last jumper settled for a s/l.)

if we are going to turn on each other, can we have some reason (facts) to back it up? is that asking too much?

Why would he "Run" it? It wasn't his gear. Someone else was planning on jumping it. Sounds like he was just trying to find out information for the jumper with said gear. By the amount and quality of replies it would seem there isn't a lot of information about this canopy. Its good to see others helping people once in a while.

probably the only heat in this thread came from the BASEX part of the equation

sure it worked..
but the BASEX is what it is.. a POS.
ive jumped them.. and they suck as much as i claim on here, if not more.
their flight sucks, their DB flight seems stable but not as stable in a stall as my ACE, and definitely not my 7.

greenguy should have told the newbie to burn the POS baseX, and lent him one of his own to jump from the tower, or made him get a new canopy / better one. the base R works as well as any 2 pin from what i could tell, but the canopy flies like shit.

cum guzzler (not you warpdey)

EDIT: and in my honest opinion after 5 jumps on a 240ish, the baseX is a devolution (yeah,yeah,yeah) in canopy performance; in a time when canopies should be (and some ARE, Ie: Asylums Se7en) evolving for the better..
honestly, it sucks. dont buy them.
also, this is nothing against Sonic- ive met him and hes a nice guy from what i could tell. Just that the canopy sucks, and he shouldnt try to sell them anymore.. stick with his tso'd container thingy.. which is kinda cool, for people that can safely operate a bellymount

I gotta go with Fledgling on this, you called Sonic up who last i heard has 11 BRIDGE jumps and is not a BASE jumper by ANY standards. Tell your new guy to buy a real canopy. I jumped that piece of shit out a plane once out of curiousity and thats exactly what it was, a piece of shit.

Not heated at all. Just can't stand people that don't know fuck all condoning the use of sub standard equipment. Especially when they get back on here and tell every one how great it worked, possibly leading even more newbies to buy the same piece of shit canopy.

Again the only advice he should have given him is to stop jumping until he buys a decent canopy.

Would you be comfortable putting a newbie off an object on a canopy you know nothing about? I'm pretty sure thats not the best way to educate somebody.

Never questioned PCAing the student. I think you will see that was about the only thing I agreed with.

The info is there.

Unless they are helping them make the wrong decisions.

Also lets not forget the video that was on here of that canopy blowing up.

Na mate. The masses have already spoken. Apparently there isn't any info to be found about this canopy

I agree, the BASER container is just fine & the BASEX canopy
is inferior to every other BASE specific wing I have jumped.
Hence I said earlier that it performed similar to a Dagger,
which is known to pressurize poorly at very low air speeds.

I asked on here to see if anyone who owns one had jumped it
in a similar configuration. I spoke with Sonic because he is the
manufacturer. I did this not because I think of his as a BASE
jumper but because his friends, like MILES DAISHER, actually
test jumped the gear for him.

I asked Tom A. because he lived in Idaho when Sonic's friends
were test jumping the gear, he has 10 years more experience
than me, and I can get him on the phone to quickly bounce an
idea off of him.

In the end I told the guy that his canopy was fine for jumping
from airplanes or really tall objects with more air speed and
lots of separation but not good for solid or low objects.

and then you proceeded to teach him to jump off of a 315' tower with minimal airspeed and minimal separation.

you should rethink your reasons for teaching new jumpers. usually, a more experienced jumper/mentor would not make those mistakes.
take it slow greeny

RE: take it slow greeny

"Greeny" is actually a really experienced
jumper on the west coast who specializes
in doing very, very low freefalls quite well.

ya, im sure thats his real name..
i was referring to you,
who is obiously still green (new) if you think you should be teaching people.

you contradict yourself, and its a matter of time before one of your 10 students gets hurt.
of course everyone is responsible for their own actions, but they should at least have GOOD instruction; not - "you shouldnt use this canopy for anything but jumping out of planes or off of Tall objects with higher airspeed, but fuck it, lets go SL you off this 315' freestander"

I knew what you meant, but still posted
the clarification regarding "Greeny" so as
to not soil his good name with my bad rep.

Prior to the jump I did not know anything
about the BASEX except what was posted
online here. Of course much of it was not
accurate because the people posting had
never jumped it and some are 'haters'.

After doing research, talking to people
who have SKY jumped and BASE jumped
the canopy I made the decision to allow
the jump, but only in a certain way (PCA/SL).

After the jump I made the statement that
the wing would only be good for x, y, z.
FYI - he is currently looking for a bigger
and vented BASE specific canopy.

Everyone who BASE jumps long enough is
likely to get hurt... not just the FEW people
who I have helped, just look at the other
thread with input from guys with 1,000's
of BASE jumps.

I do not see the contradiction nor
do I know why you even give a fuck.

I think you are missing the point Tom, sure most of us are going to get hurt if we do it long enough, thats the key word "long enough."

Not on your 6th, 10th, 20th jump because of poor decision making.

None of us are perfect, i made poor ones too. Just saying.

look back on my post before your greeny clarification..
that should help you see the contradiction.
you said you took him to jump, then told him he shouldnt do it again (more or less), cause it wasnt a tall object with lots of airspeed.
that sounds contradictory to me...
Example: If i took a student with 5 jumps to a building, PCAed him, jumped myself, we get away clean and injury free, then AFTERwards talked with him and told him he shouldnt jump buildings till he has 50 jumps, that would be contradictory, No?
Do you think he would really listen?

I was born in FL, thats the only real reson that this matters to me - ive only jumped there 7 or 8 times , long ago. so the objects there no longer matter to me.
continue on...

I'm curious (and maybe I missed it), but are you teaching, mentoring, playing good host, or what?

mentoring or teaching implies accepting more responsibility for the jumper.

assisting a newbie isn't necessarily the same thing, imho.

someone with five jumps a year ago from NRGB (or over the past two years possibly) is new, yes, but i consider a newbie someone who is capable of jumping themselves, being knowledgeable about many different types of jumping / object interpretation etc.
sounds like Tom L was teaching / playing mentor with this new jumper. not just playing host. A host would be considered as someone who helps an out-of-towner who is capable of jumping themselves

are you teaching, mentoring, playing good host

I have done all three.

In this case it was mentor.

Spot on, That is the dilemma. Stats say that one out of 16 BASE jumpers will DIE BASE jumping. I´ve lost 2 students. Not on the training, but on their braining. No injuries on FJC. The 2 that died were well in excess of 200 jumps. Good instruction? Try no instruction as I did. I would have tried instruction if they had it back in the day before the turn of the century.
I just want you and all to see that FJC is only a license to learn. Same as a senior riggers ticket. 20 pack jobs and you are the man.

FJC: Think of it as a salad bar, all you can eat and you choose to eat one olive. You can choose anything and as much as you want. but because you think you are so good you choose the olive and go away.
You could have had every thing. You could always ask your FJC Mentor anything anytime for the rest of your BASEing life until number 16 comes up for you.
Your Salad will be fresh if you keep goin back.
(Please understand the word "you" means every FJC student, not you specifically)
GreenMachine is a leader. Leading into what, I do not know. But he aint no sheep and has my respect for this.
Take care,
space

Where does this stat come from? Base number to fatality ratio?

i did a statistical analysis for fun back around 2005 or 2006 that stuck with it that indicated about 1 in 16 would die from BASE jumping. that was when i was a data analyst for NASA in Houston.

funny, Badenhop will probably chime in and point that we will all die eventually for one reason or another.

from "460"`s research into others research. I wanted to disagree but was unable due to the stats presented. A search would be recommended. If you cant find it, I will search it for you, or others will search, but unfortunately it is there. Sux..
Take care,
Tracy

edited for the reason that my post is too late.

 

isn't your analysis a bit dated? the ratio of BASEjumpers to fatalities is not static but changing everyday. how did you determine how many jumpers? just curious. not really diggin the odds.

however, to put it in perspective, i have a 1:7 chance of developing breast cancer.

Not trying to be sarcastic, but how else could it be?
That sexy photo of you in a bikini on your profile for example. You were younger. Why? because the same reason that technology is not at the state to predict with accuracy Statistics or Hot Babes aging.
Take care,
space

well, while you tell him that the wing will only work for 'X, Y, Z', im sure hes still thinking about the 'W' that you just taught him to jump. does this still not make sense that you contradicted yourself?


^Thats the best possible thing that could possibly happen.

FYI - im not trying to say you are a bad person or anything, just if you choose to wear the mentor hat this early in your jumping career, you should think long and hard about who you put off what. And what you tell them and when. Maybe you should have told your resent student that "This canopy isnt the best for Static line, Let's go jump a taller guyed tower where we can climb higher and you can take a little more of a delay, as your canopy has been known to inflate a little slower at slow airspeeds' or 'You should by an Ace 240 (i have one for sale) and then i will take you on a jump.' if he waited a year since last BD('09) to make this SL jump, he could wait another couple weeks for BD2010, and work on getting a new canopy that is better. It seems more like you are conducting experiments with other people. If you arent conducting experiments, you are definitely jumping the gun a little.
Im only trying to offer you advice - from one mentor to another. ( i have more experience mentoring)

P.S. Im not trying to say you are a bad person, just maybe not experienced enough to be taking on these major responsibilities.

No. What you did was show him that he could indeed jump his piece of crap canopy, exactly how to go about jumping it and exactly where to go when he wants to jump it. Even worse then that you also advised him that his canopy will perform better when opened at a higher airspeed even though there are videos that show that it is possible to blow up this particular canopy on longer delays.
Sorry mate but as a mentor (and I use that term very loosely) you have failed miserably. I strongly urge you to cease mentoring any one else until you have actually accumulated the experience necessary to do so safely. It appears that you keep stumbling from one fuck up to the next and I would hate to see a newbie that doesn't even know any better to suffer the consequences for your blatant ineptitude.
But then again, if a newbie can download a video of his esteemed mentor flailing around like a 15year old girl in a bitch slapping contest and still continue to jump with him, then he should probably also go and kick himself in the nuts.

Speaking of bitch slapping I would have
no problem getting in the ring with you.

As for not knowing how a newer & lesser
used canopy performs - I do not see how
this qualifies as ineptitude.

YES, my exits are hit or miss, sometimes
I flail, sometimes I look like I'm freeflying.
Not once I have ever said I was someone
to imitate...


However, this is NOT a fucking AFF jump.
Miles has never jumped off of the Perrine,
dove down to a jumper in trouble and got
them stable before pull time.


By the way, your profile says 300 jumps,
I have 237 jumps, we both have 4 years
in the sport. So let me get this straight.

The reasons you are a BASE-God and I
am a ignorant douche bag is because:
1) too many green posts
2) my fuck ups are known
3) i have a lot of skydives

FYI - I have only taught 2 virgins to BASE.
The first guy now has BASE and about 200
BASE jumps. The second guy has 3 of his
objects and 48 BASE jumps.

Everyone else already had jumps, gear, and
was aware of this website, hence & therefore
I was in no way their gate-way to this drug.
They had already tried the junk and I simply
helped them (for free) because I enjoy it.

Lastly, I wish Miles, Jeb, Tom A., Gary C.,
Troy D., Sparky, Lonnie, Tree, or anyone
with a metric-fuck-ton of BASE jumps lived
in the panhandle so I could learn from them.

Word.

He's not any worse than any of you yahoo's posting, he just puts himself out there more publicly in order to learn/be judged/ridiculed/whatever.

It is what it is, deal with it. Let's put anybody out there for public scrutiny and see how fast you get knocked off of your golden fucking pedestals...




(not directed at you space, you just had the quote...)

it has been argued before that even sub-par instruction can be preferable to none.

people also struggle to find talented jumpers who are willing to mentor someone.

thus, Green might be filling a void in his area and he makes it clear (in these forums) that he errs. do his students have better options available to them?

I'm betting Green would happily defer to another, if they stepped up.

Dishing out advice on a canopy you know nothing about is pretty fucking stupid.

By mentoring a student that, by default, is exactly what you are saying.

Never said I was a God and don't even recall stating that I am better then you for that matter. What I did say and will say again is that you have no business mentoring any body.
What upsets you the most Tom? That I questioned your skill? That I questioned your experience? Or that I simply questioned you at all?

instead of flogging that dead horse, yet again, do care to provide an alternative?

in an epiphany of your brilliance and correctness, Green curls up into a ball and refuses contact with potential students. (note the subtle sarcasm... )

what do you expect will happen to those he might have taught? one already bought a setup that you disapprove. do you really think he would just keep it in the closet? do you think he would just wait until bridge day? or might that student just try to figure it out on his own?

a smart, helpful mentor remains a wonderful ideal - so does a virgin bride (or Prince Charming for a groom). current reality is that none of them occur very often.

what do you want to see?
how should Green's abandoned charges proceed?
got an alternative?

when you repeat the same points over and over, are you really engaging in a discussion?

I think we can both agree that Green is not playing the part of a simple point of contact. More like he is actively promoting himself as a mentor to these people.

By Greens own admission this guy hadn't jumped since last BD (who knows what year). But you are right in that now Green has showed him a new place to go kill himself he will now require close supervision until he gets through the curve. Unfortunately for the student he is probably going to be stuck with Green for the duration.

Ok, here goes:
Instead of mentoring people when he, himself doesnt seem to have the experience or aptitude, he should point them towards a full length FJC for starters, not a BD FJC
a week at the perrine does a lot especially right in the beginning.
Instead of learning from someone with ~250 jumps, they will learn from professionals with 10's of thousands of jumps.
Green was teaching him basic things, which i am sure were not incorrect, like how to rig a SL.

but the contradictory nature of his teachings are what would be sure to confuse the student.
I suggest he does not contradict himself in his actions / teachings.
and FJC would not contradict themselves.
I would also suggest to not put off people with less than 150 skydives, especially being that he only has ~250 basejumps.
He has put of people with less than 150 skyjumps. from what ive heard from a friend in FL, he thinks they are naturals.
He doesnt have to cease contact with potential students, but at least point them in the right direction, and not be contradictory.


its right around the corner... why not? at least let him be somewhat current before SL-ing him off a lower tower.

If the student cannot show some determination to save money for a FJC, then maybe its not the right student for Green. I think green is rushing people into it a little too fast.
Tom, it may not be your fault.. I know antsy students can pressure you into taking them out before they are reasdy, you just have to keep a strong stance, and stick to core principles -that you still need to work out...

since you registered on 2 Sept, have you lurked at all?
you may not have realized that there is a tidal wave of wannabees popping up with alarming regularity. it is why we created the Beginner's Forum.

wannabees are finding gear. they watch videos and think they know enough. they may not take a FJC. they regularly complain about how difficult it is to start and want to ignore standard advice.

they insist on jumping and make basic errors.

experienced jumpers have a choice, ignore it, complain, or step up and help. heck, Green asked for advice back in August, and no one responded publicly.

When I learned to freefly I had about 26 skydives. I was learning with my best friend who had 28. People thought we were going to kill each other. 12 years later he is a great freeflier and I have managed to stay alive, with decent skills, although I am more of a BASE jumper than skydiver.

On one hand I disagree with teaching ANYONE to base jump. On the other, I want to show someone the joy of BASE.

Maybe you shouldn't mentor anyone Tom. Maybe you should. I dont know. It a personal choice. I have. The bottom line is the dude survived. Now Tom has a clearer understanding that the BASEx is a shitty rag. Mentors dont have all the answers or experience they will ever need to become a great mentor. they are always learning, a perpetual student themselves. Just move on with an understanding of where you just were. Even if that means in the florida panhandle ,and you want to jump. and all you can find is GreenMachine. Just send that 'student' of yours to Asylum and pick up a Se7en. Life goes on, and then it doesn't.