Basejumper.com - archive

I asked this question over on dz.com but I am starting to to think everyone on there is a gear snob so I figured I'd see what some base jumpers on here think. I just bought my first rig, a Dolphin (with velcro riser covers), a Triathlon 160 main, and a Tempo 170 reserve. Altico said they would install some tuck tabs for the risers and reserve flap to make the rig freefly friendly for $260. As far as I can tell, a Dolphin with tucktabs and a bridal protector is IDENTICAL to a 90's Javelin container. I've packed both and can see no differences besides the velcro riser covers and reserve flap which I plan on replacing. My rigger even packed the reserve like a Javelin with the top and bottom flaps covering the pop top. So, is there any difference between a Dolphin with tuck tabs and bridal protection and a 90's Javelin?

 
Well... it's got a velcro flap on the main cover flap that will actually stay closed unlikethe main flap on a Javelin that doesn't. If it's got velcro on the riser flaps then they will probable stay closed unlike the old Javelin. If you get the tuck tabs the will stay closed unlike even the modern javelins. So...

On the other hand it's probable black and that makes it unairworthy. You absolutly can not FreeFly with a black rig. You will never be able o acheave head down. Freeflying is about total freedom of expression with out limits or judgements and you can not do that unless you are dressed exactly like every one else and jumping the exact same gear in the same neon colors.

Lee

why does it matter?

a container is just there to hold all your shit together until you want it not to. if it does that, and youre happy with the canopies you've got in it, it shouldnt matter who made it.

theres alot of snobberey in the skyjump world, try not to let it get to you and just have a good time without endagering anyone else.

Thanks for the replies! The only reason it matters avenfoto is because everyone on dz.com, and at the local turbine dz, swear that I cannot safely freefly a dolphin and shouldn't waste my money on having it modified. But, I haven't heard anyone say the same thing about the older javelins which everyone seems to be freeflying!

I believe I forgot to mention that the modifications would include adding tucktabs to the reserve flap as well as the riser covers.

I have a '93 SJ-7 Javelin that I use to test jump base canopies, so free-fly mods aren't an issue. BUT, I wouldn't free-fly with it because it lacks proper bridle protection. Bridle-protection mods would have to be made to the bottom of the container, for an early '90's Javelin to be free-fly friendly.

My container has a bridle protector. But I'm not sure if it was added by a rigger or if it came that way.

I moved the thread because it really has no relationship to BASE.

now, as for my opinion (that does not matter)...
how much is the container really worth? should you be investing $260 into it?
(I didn't see you mention the year of the Dolphin.)

generally, people recommend gear designed & built for BASE.
why not apply the same logic and get a container designed & built to be free-fly-friendly?

 
..." On the other hand it's probable black ".

You Racist Tea-bagging Fuck.
.

get a freefly friendly rig... I wouldn't want to be above you on your first premature opening..

You can also have magnets sewn in to the riser covers.. thats what we did on some older student rigs..

Didnt you say It had velcro on all the flqps? Get thqt replaced, it would be cheapest, and far more secure than any "freefly" rig out there.

far more secure than any "freefly" rig out there

No, not really.

A pin cover flap secured with brand new velcro or tuck tabs
is still inferior to a rig that is designed such that the flaps
are NOT put under strain by relative winds in any orientation.

That's not true about an older Racer or Vector II and not with a Dolphin either.

What year is the dolphin? If it's prior to 2000 Read this and check to see if yours is compliant. Service Bulletin

Dolphins are not well suited for Freeflying/VRW. If the tuck tabs are actually like the 90's Javelins, they will work just about as well, which is not good at all.

The tuck flaps are located up higher on the shoulder than some other rigs so the risers are more exposed already and a head down position allows air under the front of the tabs or Velcro closure and blows them open. When you're on your back at 140 plus the sides of the riser covers catch air and peel the Velcro or the tabs right open. The Riser covers simply aren't pulled tight enough.

The main cover flap may or may not stay shut but I doubt it will.

Unless the main is packed very tightly into the main container, the BOC on that rig is fairly loose. That may not be true if it's been replaced with something better than stock. The bridle cover better be nice and snug to do any good. The corners of the main container are nice and square and open so that area is pretty soft.

If the pilot chute handle is a Hackey, that pouch better be REALLY tight. Hackeys tend to flop around too much and pull a bit of the pilot chute out a little at a time. If the pouch is like that of an old Javelin, you're risking serious damage to you and your gear and anyone above you.
I won't use a Hackey for freeflying. I would use a good flush pad with tabs to tuck into the bridle cover. (might not make sense but I doubt the dolphin has it anyway).

We have about Zero Dolphins around here so I can't get pictures and diagram why I wouldn't want this rig for Real freeflying or VRW.

There are not enough things going for the dolphin to make it a good freefly rig. Sure, there are some people that do it and there are probably some rigs that are made fairly secure (or secure enough) but seriously, it's not suitable.

I do have a strong background in freeflying, and a good rigging back ground to actually understand and compare rigs and understand how they work and understand their failure modes.

It's tough to describe in 5 minutes on a forum but hopefully that helps.

well i stand corrected then.

but i thought the point was to get him in a rig he had and having fun, not a 2000 dollar container..

Don't get me wrong, The rig is fine and I agree that inexpensive Is good. But for freeflying and vrw, not so much.


I just wouldn't expect it to be an appropriate rig to do over unders with a buddy.

Since freeflying was a concern I had to bring it up. I don't want to see him pay way too much for a first rig either, but I also don't want to see stuff come open and endanger anyone. People get away with a lot most of the time but, not always. A premie could either be an inconvenience or much worse. Get what i mean?

BTW, If my tone appears harsh, that's not my intent. It probably comes across that way when I type but really it's not meant to.

That's all.


(Typed with my thumbs using a malfunctioning Droid)


Edit: Slightly corrected using a plain ole keyboard connected to a fairly decent Dell Optiplex GX650)

 
I'm going to take issue with several points here.

Main flap. The velcro cover flap on the dolphin is very secure. In fact it's supearier to the cover flap on a Javelin regardless of the genertion. The dolphin being attached at the seam of the top main flap is independent of loop length on the main tray. It is under no tention. On opening it remains closed and is not ripped open by the bridle so it does not wear out. The velcro being whapped around is protected from being blown open and is almost squized under the top and side flaps helping too keep it secure. As long as the velcro is even moderatly maintained it's not an issue. On the oher hand the flap on a Javelin, a rig that is widely concidered to be freefy friendly, comes open all the time. It's primaraly the product of loop length. Being attached to the reserve tray and the loop being in the top of the tray rather then on a flap the cover flap can go from being any where from comfertably lose too far too tight. The top flap on the Javelin is normally not under tention. As the loop gets longer the top flap extends and the side flaps and top flap shift lower on the container. The cover flap comes under tention and tries to pull the tuck tab lose. Notice how it gets that bend in it. I can't even count the number of tuck tabs I've replaced. This is normally the product of an oversized main or just lazyness in packing.

Tuck tabs on riser covers. The fundomental problem with the shoulder tuck on the Javelin has always been the main tray. They have gotten... better over the years. They've gone through several design changes over the years and they have... improved. Again the biggest problem is the riser covers get pulled on as the rig is worn and they get bent. The tention on them can come from over stuffed ears in the reserve but a bigger issue is again the main tray. as the loop gets longer the side flaps are pulled or should I say pushed? downwards away from the the reserve tray by the main. This tension continues up along the edge of the riser cover to pull against the tucktab. Note how the bottom of the tab takes on that bend. As to why Furry built it like that? Haveing the loop on that toung at the top of the tray gives you a great deal of lattitude in the size of the canopy. The design of the cover flap on the main was pure vanity. It's totaly asthetic.

Dolphin riser covers. Furry go smart over the years and when he built the dolphin he put the attachment on the reserve flap. It eliminates some of the tension issues and makes it independent of the bulk and packing of the reserve tray. It also lets the reserve flaps fully open on deployment rather then be restricted by the riser covers when the main tray is closed. And there are a number of rigs with "good" tight riser covers where that can be an issue. There is more riser exposed but the toggle is fully covered and protected. Haveing a bit or riser exposed is not that big an issue. It's not going to be extracted by the wind. You could grab it and pull on it, it takes a good deal of force to pull it out depending on the tightness of the tray. But why would you do that again?

I've lost track of how many diffret generations and aftermarket mods I've seen. I thought the original snaps were fine. Yes they can pull out but they don't open in freefall and they were easy to replace. Some one just had to have one of those snap sets made from vice grips. I've seen diffrent velcro mods that range from poor to excessive. If you don't think velcro can be secure then you haven't seen a Fiesty cover. The tuck tabs I've seen were the triangular ones on the reserve flap and they seemed to work well. I don't recall them being a problem and I think it's a more secure tab then the Javelin lacking some of the tension issues.

BOC. The dolphins were made with the original black sandex. Not the stiffest. It's really not a probblem till it gets old. That's a matinance issue that you're going to have on any rig. If you're buying a used rig budgeting $40 for a new BOC is not unreasonable and at that point you've got a new BOC with what ever fabric you want as tight as any rig. Most Dolphins have velcro that holds the bridle and I think that's fine but you could put a Jav stile cover on there at the same time you do the BOC if you like. Any inexspenceive used rig will probable have a hacky. With a tight BOC hackies work. If you just cant stand it you could put a pud stile handle on your pilot chute to go under the cover flap discused above. Yes sir you can make it as tight as you like till you start haveing totals because you can't pull it if that's what you really want.

And let's not forget that you can buy a pefectly serviceable Dolphin for $100. What does a brand new javelin, or name any other "cool" freefly friendly rig, with all the bells and whisles go for now a days? I'll bet I bought my whole first rig, main, and reserve for less. I'd buy a dolphin and jump the liveing shit out of it.

hey man, no worries. no offense taken. pussies big and all that.

its probably not a good rig for advanced freefly, overunders, or any kind of agressive flying, however, the very fact that the op is posting what he is, alludes to the fact that he is probably a ways out from that kind of flying.

that being said, its been my (limited in comparison to yours and tom L's ) experience in skyjumping that fresh and well maintained velcro is usually rock solid.

additionally i was also under the impression that the only reason the manufacturers switched from velcro to tuck tabs was the fact that worn velcro had to be replaced every so often, and the hooks attracted all kiinds of hairs and stuff from the packing mat.

(typed on a dual-quad core 2.8 ghz macpro running 10.6 with 18gb of ram )

i have seen a nasty premature opening from a "modofied" dolphin. my friend billy at skydiveswflorida will attest to it happening to him after a pin check in the plane. we were doing a 4 way ff, exited head down flower, seperated at 10k stayed head down, billy and i transitioned to a sit about 7k, as soon as we did he had a premature deployment. really glad no one was close to him. he had bruises from the legstraps for over two weeks. he now owns an icon. its not only your life that can be put in danger by your choice of gear. think about that

i just ate a potato.......

on the topic of the dolphin container...don't really know much other than it was designed by the same guy who originally designed the first javelin, however he wanted to save production costs by just making all black containers (as coloured cordura and such is more expensive) eventually he added features such as a different coloured pop top, and logo. So that would be reason for many similarities between those rigs, and older model javelins.