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We had another 2 non fatal accidents which lead in to hospital treatment last weekend in Swiss. What I would like to point out regarding these is the fact that on the other one the jumper experienced offheading opening which lead into cliffstrike. Compared to the fatal accident we had at YO recently the basic situation sounds quite similar. What might have made the difference in the outcome is that in the fatal accident the jumper was jumping without helmet where as on saturday the jumper was wearing a very heavy duty full face helmet. The helmet has taken some heavy damage, both jaw protectors are broken and the front is pretty badly smashed but the most important thing is that the jumper only got some scratches to her face. Other injuries are some fractures on her left leg. I intend not to blame anyone or not to point any fingers but make your own conclusions and think how you want to protect yourself in case the worst happens.

Hey Markus,

was the helmet a skydiving helmet or something more "heavy duty"?

Mike

Hi,

the helmet in question was not skydiving helmet but something more rugged, probably built for downhill or something like that.

With a decent track and delay should anyone even be close enough for a cliff strike? You should know how to track well before going to the valley; even for YO.

people are told that but they are also told to buy a landing card and rega as well i wonder how many do that...its a shame but i am sure this year there will be more...

Never heard of 180+line twists? Of course you can hit the wall. You can hit any wall....

What country was the jumper from?

 

if you pull low enough you cannot hit the wall.

US and it wasn't in the valley.

+1

 Heard from reliable sources that this jumper kinda slipped at the exit point or something? Might no have been such a stable launch. That said, it is still a bad idea to unstow your breaks and try to steer through line twists,....too much risk of creating asymmetrical flight

yeah i showed you guys how to pull low enough there last year....

Simply not true as well. Ever heard of the fact that shit happens? My good friend Darren B lost his life when he impacted the wall after unstable opening due to slipping on the exit in winter time. And yes, he had the basic skills to fly far enough to be safe which he performed on every single jump before that. Prepare yourself for the unexpected, don't always expect everything to go as planned. It can happen, even to you.

+1

Those that think otherwise haven't seen enough.

Please define the words in bold and how it applies to everyone.
take care,
space

I received a PM that this thread has drifted too much. thus I split off the line twist discussion.

one of the original points that appears to be getting lost is that a full face helmet protected one jumper, after he got into a world of hurt.

remember, the best plans can turn ugly. slipping on exit or launching poorly happens. so do other things. at least one of the jumpers was protected by a helmet. he did something right in planning.

average meaning not half way down the wall like many jumpers in the swiss valley, espicially new jumpers who like to have 180's. i've been there enough to see it happen every trip. the higher you pull, the shittier the opening.

basic meaning pulling past the trees on ALL exit points in LB. granted with enough time for full pressurization and solid flare.

i personally don't give a shit what kind of safety gear a jumper is weraing if they can't fly their body and get a safe distance from the wall. full face helmets are great, but i'll take a solid track with deployment over a grassy field over face protection anyday.

and if you want to compare base dicks, come to SLC and I'll whip mine out for ya.

Neil, I want to see it!!! Your dick, my mouth lets go! Wait a minute, that sounds-- no that right.

CLC
Loose Cannon For Life!

Spot on.

One of the mistakes that skydivers make transitioning to BASE is thinking that higher pulls are safer.

In BASE, very often, lower pulls are safer.

In this sort of situation, a lower pull will give you:

a) More time to establish object separation;
b) Higher airspeed to drive a cleaner opening and slider deployment (yielding a better opening heading).

High pull = safer is a skydiving mentality that needs to be left at the dropzone.

he is a she.

My point is that “Decent”, “Basic”, “Average” are words that do not work across the board when describing tracking abilities across a range of jumpers. Also, one can not get a reliable assessment of subterminal/terminal tracking skills from dynamic exit platforms (aircraft) and how it relates to distance tracked from the wall. At the moment, the only way is to try it from the wall to get a reliable assessment (which of course can be fatal if it is not up to par).

“and if you want to compare base dicks, come to SLC and I'll whip mine out for ya.”
Thanks for the nice example of the point I am trying to get across. If one feels competent enough to challenge jumpers in a tracking contest, then, what that one considers ““Decent”, “Basic”, “Average”” is probaly quite a big bite to newer tracking wall jumpers and quite likely unachievable on the 1st tracking wall jumps for them.
Take care,
space

Unfortunately there are many people who take the valley and BASE in general not seriously enough.

Last time I was in the valley heading to the High Nose one guy was asking how to track well? That raised several of our suspicions and found out he had 32 skydives, was jumping a PF tracking suit that he had never jumped before, and it was his 1st slider up jump. Needless to say his track was shite & his canopy opened on heading but the tail was ON the wall... had he had a little off heading or opened 50ft lower im sure I would have seen a fatality!

And as for releasing toggles with twists... that is one of the first things you are told not to do when you start skydiving... experience springs to mind!


Maybe its time to start trying to regulate our legal BASE areas, to try and stop this kind of thing. Which would hopefully stop locals wanting to close certain areas.

(BTW: I am not saying the the cause of the incident(s) was due to complancey or anything like that... shit happens... ive nearly been there twice)

how do you propose this be done? (not being cynical, its a serious question)

This should be its own thread...

I have seen a few BASE jumpers threaten to call
the cops on some other guys who were going to
jump a wind turbine in an unconventional manner.

I have heard a story of one BASE jumper cutting
the main lift web of a visiting guy who was told
point blank to NOT jump a particular antenna.

So I guess when polite conversation fails then the
conflict escalates till a compromise is reached or
one side backs down (remember Von Clausewitz?)

And of course there is the famous video of one guy
getting literally tarred and feathered in his living
room by an angry crew.

Yeah, so don't come round here jumpin' local shit unless you do it my way or you get gear trashed and you ass handed back in a bloody rag bag. Mo fo. Cunt bitch. Foo.

Yeah, we need more fun police. And BASE licenses with each object requiring the appropriate license OR ELSE. I was under the impression you didn't like LE around, now you wanna be one. Shit.

... I truly hope that you're joking! Besides, how would you enforce all those regulations at the legal sites? Will you bring NPS to Europe?

Maybe it was not clear but everything
in my post had to do with other people
being the fun police, not me.

In fact, I was going to tag along on the
wacky wind turbine load until 2 locals
got pist about the plan, which was when
I decided to sit out the load.


I have two good friends who are cops,
have done one ride along, and helped
the local SWAT guys with a training
operation... so not sure where you got
the impression I dislike LE, of course
I never, ever wanted to be one though.

So far simply asking my BASE friends
to please do or not do X, Y, or Z has
worked just fine (and vice versa).

If you take a hammer'd friend's car
keys are you being a cop or a friend?

No LE around objects is the point, not no LE in general. Also car keys is an irrelevant analogy unless jumper is shitfaced. Asking for good judgement isn't the same as Enforcing homebrew Law. Asking for respect is reasonable, demanding conformance is not.