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I did around 400 base jumps and 1000+ skydives w tonysuits.
I got them for production price and I switched to phoenix fly after flew the V3 and the stealth2... Why because they were more fun to fly and they have a cutaway system that works. the ts sleeves never worked for me. I had two different suits with them.
I know many other people that the sleeves didn't work for.

Also if you have any layers on under the suit the arms don't work well, and most of the time in base you are wearing layers.
For the sleeves to work you need to lift your legs to slide your arms out.

Imagine you have a line over or tension knot and are spinning very fast lifting your legs is not going to be so easy.

The next problem is that to make it possible to slide your arms out the arm holes are huge this causes drag also the arms are not swept back very much this causes the suit to fly slow.. they cant be swept back or you cant get your arms out. This is not good for base.. this makes the suit look like jebus crust is flying it, and speaking of walking on water..

What happens when you land in the water and your arm zipper Jams?

If you look at things like safety and R&D PF wins hands down.
I am not talking shit I am just stating my opinion. I have seen the process of suits being designed. there is more testing and more thought put into PF.

Matt G says that no one has gone from a ts to PF. I am one.
btw I can think of many jumpers who have tried the ts and didn't like it..

Steph Davis would not be here right now if she used her ts on a base jump for the first jump, as she couldn't pull due to the but deflector, good thing for that reserve handle... This is why it is important for a ws manufacturer to understand the needs of base jumpers. The suits need extensive testing with base in mind..

Some people will say that the tony starts flying faster, since switching to the V3 for base at first I noticed a difference in the start time but once I did some jumps and started to figure out my exits there is not much difference it just takes a bit of skill to start flying faster. This is not bad it will make you a better ws pilot, I would rather fly than be on auto pilot. And if it takes three seconds instead of two to start flying but after I start i get to have a jet fighter (V3) to fly instead of a slow bomber (tonysuit) then I choose the jet fighter!!!

I want a wingsuit made by someone who actively base jumps and understands what I want in a suit and does the R&D to make the best design possible....

As long as we are stating opinions, I'll add mine with some facts.

In a broad sense I agree with what you say. I used to have every suit PF made and now, I will not buy another PF suit[Opinion]. Why?

[Fact]
When I purchased a V2(my 2nd one) I was sold a suit with arm wings that were 10 inches in thickness(thickest point of the wing, no V1,V2,V3 in the world for a 6'2", 78 kg guy will have a 10 inch thick wing). Most people don't pay attention to this detail, they just jump. I didn't until I started to question why I was unable to even match the performance I got in a phantom1(back to the landing area from Smellveggan the first time I tried it) with a V2.

A 10 inch wing is found on a Stealth(suit designed for flying slow)not a Vampire. One of the key design changes that made a Vampire what it is, is thinner wings.

I wouldn't accept mediocre performance from a suit that I purchased for one reason only, to give me the best performance I could get. I was told I won't be sold any more PF suits when I asked Robi to make me a V3. [end fact]

I am happy to see other manufacturers make an effort to capture the wingsuit BASE market. While Tony suits may not perform the best today, can you say that they are unsafe (ignoring the cutaway issue for just a moment) or poorly made in any other way? You wouldn't make so many jumps with one if you did.

If you look back at all the suits released over the years by Tony you will notice an amazing amount of reluctance to use an existing design. It is hard for people to change their set ways. The WBR not allowing suits without a proven wing cutaway system to compete is just the catalyst needed.

lol.

I have to ask since my english is quite limited. Is this good or bad?

Anyone else who want to chim in about the sleeves and other pro and cons for sleeves / cut away systems?

I think he is saying that your new rule may force the manufacturer to change their previous stubborn stance and that is a good thing (in his opinion).

Using your rule as a reason for adding the cut-away means they can save face and continue to claim it isn't really necessary.

We might have this discussion in a another tread, but I am curious if you land in water, and do not have the time to zip up? Wingsuit and water is lethal anyway, but just the thought of it. Line over, spinning canopy, linetwist so on.

At gridset we had quite a few water landings, and some have been really close calls to drowning.

If some moderator want he can split the tread in to a another tread.

ok.

it is split off.

Wingsuits in water

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8zv5DKreic

Part II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy81lCGeTZc

I think the WBR folks insisting on a safe cutaway system on wing suits participating at the event is perfectly valid.

As far as the good it may do to tonysuits goes, my reasons are my own.

I figure the escape sleeve system makes a wing thicker than it needs to be from the forearm to the wrist(pictures). If this system is replaced, there would be no need to continue with the design.

For wingsuit development in general I think it is very bad to not have competition at the event. I would definitely like to see how James, Jeff and Matt(video link "My Tonysuit starts flying faster than any other suit in existence" from tonysuits's gallery below) etc can do flying their tony suits.

http://vimeo.com/8364906

I love my V3, but I am strongly considering an x-wing too. Both suits do what they are designed to do very well. I love proximity flying with my v3, I feel like im in complete control at all times. The few jumps I have on an x-wing have felt a little washier, but im sure thatll go away with practice. I have definitely seen some lines flown with tony suits that I thought were impossible, ie flying over the top of the waterfall off of ultimate. I have a phantom 2 that i fly for certain jumps as well. Both are awesome, and im sure ill fly both fairly equally. Right tool for the right job. If im spinning like crazy on my V3, those cutaways arent exactly the easiest thing to pull either. Flying is flying, just fly how you want and have fun. I guarantee I could find a post by jade just as long about how much the v3 sucks too! ;)

Wingsuits designed for base not skydiving.. ????

Kind of strange title

it was edited and re-titled by the poster.

All these wingsuits is also made for skydiving, not only base.

not the wingsuits with integrated baserigs

Some wingsuits were made with only skydiving in mind By a skydiver.
Other wingsuits were made with both base and skydiving in mind by someone who is both.

TonySuits not BASE jumping:

Jeff N:http://vimeo.com/13934741
Jeb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgKiAooWfsU
Matt G:http://vimeo.com/13356914

To be fair, the sleeve system was not designed for a BASE wingsuit, it just made its way across from the skydiving world where it is IMO, adequate. There is really no use speculating about the Safety issue. It has been pointed out to Tonysuits(I'd say for the first time in a manner that they need to take notice). Give them a chance to respond.


The primary reason you are switching to a V3 is the flight characteristics. You have got no choice! Tonysuits does not have an equivalent offering to a Vampire. They have a product that competes against the Stealth and Ghost(Big fat wings and little sweep back...based on what you said).

@jade and hjumper33:

My guess is that there aren't many Stealth(2) suits in the BASE world. If there were, I bet we'd find that the Stealth(2) would start flying just as quickly as an X-Bird does. Possibly something to do with a slower stall speed.

I'd have to say that you're not entirely right. I fly Phoenix stuff but the "start flying faster" round definitely goes to Tonysuits if looked at from a pure physical standpoint: I think it is safe to say that the big Tonysuits (X/S/etc-Bird) fly slower than a V3, without saying anything about their glide ratio. Now, a "slow" suit will always reach its max glide sooner than a "fast" suit, that's just physics. Hence, it'll start flying (forward) faster, assuming both slow and fast suits have the same glide ratio. That's the reason why on short base jumps Tonysuits kick V3s' ass (think Matt's high nose to camping). All this said while assuming laminar flow on exit and not taking vortex lift into account.

Oh, and I forgot: yes, take a Stealth 2 and I bet it'll show similar take-off performance as a fat Tonysuit.

Another little detail to clear up while we're at it: A slower suit will profit more than a fast suit if flown downwind (this partly accounts for the nice Tonysuit distance records on wingsuitcompetition). It'll also benefit more from thermals. On the other hand a fast suit will fly further in headwind conditions and lose less in downdrafts.

I hope that'll obliterate some of the overly subjective talk that's going on around here over Tonysuits vs PF.

And now go jump whatever suit/brand you fly and enjoy :-)

What about the wingsuits of Flyyourbody?

I mean especially S Fly Expert is enough Base "friendly"?

As I know a lot of people use S Fly Expert in Base..

V 3 to camp ground..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AWqUAwPihc

I also would like to know what people thought of the S-Fly but more the S-Fly Pro fly?

Anyone know what this in numbers? Exit altitude and distance to campground.

Never mind, I figured the approximate numbers out from Google maps. Between 500-600m exit above landing area and horizontal distance is about ~1300m(I was very generous with where I marked the exit point). It is easy to guess the exit point based on the angle of the video posted above if it is paused at 17 secs. The tree line and the interconnecting road are good landmarks.

if you wanna see a real water landing with a Phantom watch this - it happened to me at HeliBoogie - unfortunately:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fw8XOgBjT4

and it was definitevly not a real problem.


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