Basejumper.com - archive

simply put,

does anyone use dynamic corners
while packing their canopy?

if so,did you get quicker openings?
anything else different?
how was your packing changed,if you do, or did use them?
why do it, or now,?

ive thought of it,
since introduced to this idea,

i do think it possibly is helpful,
but what do i know,

heres the pack job pics hope it helps.imnot great at explaining with words. pictures speak best.

it is what my buddy was teaching me.

thoughts please,

I do fold the bottom edge of my A-B, B-C,
and C-D folds but call it paper-airplane folds.

Also, I put those folds on top of my tail and
do it not to speed the opening but more to
promote nose first inflation and to create a
small tight pack job so the container is slim
giving me reduced pin tension.


This is more theory than reality but folding
canopy fabric usually slows the opening,
I think they call it "reefing".

 
I used to do some thing like this religiously on slider up jumps folding each of the flakes of the stablizer on the 45 like that. I got out of the habbit but the idea came back after we started jumping some of the more high performance crossbrace canopies. That was one of the packing suggestions Gyro came out with. Folding the flake between the a and b lines on a 45. I think there is some thing to it slider up as that fold is held togather by the grommet of the slider. Haveing it folded closed seems to prevent it catching air and improves center out wards bottom skin inflation. It made a noticable diffrence on the old Icerous.

Lee

I always do this. I've never heard the term dynamic corners. Adam Filippino (sp?) suggested it in one of his videos. Same reason as what RiggerLee said. And the same reason it's done on round reserves - to prevent pre-inflation prior to completing line stretch. pre-inflation could cause one side of the canopy to catch air and the other may or may not catch air. when this happens, the canopy will be torqued and subsequently turned prior to completing line stretch.

 

the basic bottom line.

thanks for the info.

it all makes lots of sense.
and hoped it would.

as this was not the way i was initially taught to pack,
the flat packing is always what i do, due to the paralysis, so any thing i can do that helps with my openings is important again, due to the paralysis.
as i cant 'kick' out of a line twist,
i sure as hell do the twist at the waist for my life! lol
learn every time you do anything, even pack for the pure muscle memory of it.


so i helieve i am on the correct trail here, with these corners,

dunamic corner is all i had learned from him,\
but regardless of the name, you now understand what i mean, -great=and your replies are well put together for information to think on more.

now i will continue to pack this way,
thanks to my friend.

I also do that always with slider up and also slider down
...If I remember right Adam Filippino used word "micro reefing"

I guess that is kind of old school stuff now but what a hell I'm old fart too and still do it -works well...

For me its more mental stuff, I bet that my canopy will works well with or without those "extra flakes" any way its easier to control my pack job with those (I never use clamps -old school again)

Hell that pics with pull up cord around lines looks spooky and scary ...imagine if...

My opinion is K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid)

-Tony Vilko-

Thats what I thought.. looks like there's no knot.. but still doesn't give me a good feeling

That is how crater nate became crater nate!

I like my lines held together while I pack too, but I just use a bight of my bridle tied around the lines with an overhand knot.

If I somehow manage to close that into the pack job without noticing I deserve to go in.

ok-now you all have me thinking a WHOLE LOT about how to store the gear prior to packing it.
in the stash bag on to packing i try to do a small pictorial on that particular pack job ...
and blast holes through the scenes,

that is how I atore the gear when it is not being used.
It was actually a photo
'journey' on how i can pack it using my wheelchair partly (at first) and then without it, dragging my ass on the ground to finish the job....

but this is how its stored while not in use, as I used to store it packed, until someone said, 'living on a DZ and packed gear is asking for a chance for someone to grab it for a try.

So this is the sequence of how its taken from the stash bag, partially packed (its so clear from opening the bag that this is totally not a finished pack job that you'd have to know how to pack it to jump it-I hope its a deterrant to leave it alone if found -as is.

anyways, 1st photo

the series starts with the opening of the bag, where the container sits with canopy allready settled into the container, (which is open in the bag).
(what you will see once you open the bag its all stored inside,
this is what you will see (this csase the container is taken out fro the package as these photos are a part of a collection of a video of packing it, which i wil make one day when Im bored, and then have that video of critiqued for ways to do things better)

the second photo is now with the container removed-(Ive got it attached to my wheelchair and am going to run it to the other end of the living room _this house has no furniture, just basics -not even-just lots of room for packing)

last photo is wihat it all looks like before I run the container to the kitchen end. the brakes are stowed, the slider is just clamped to keep it down in the place where it will be kept for a slider down.

(as for the clamps, dragging paralyzed legs around, i use clamps everywhere i can-so i do not mess up the work by a un-noticed 'gimp' leg that i dont notice just moved something. without the clamps i cant get this job done-it takes me a good hour to get it done as it is-with the number of times i drag my ass around the floors)

now moving on.


first photo is now the start of trying to start packing.

the canopy is fairly decently kept in a 'sausage' while its time to start.

second photo the pilot chute is put aside, as it was just placed on top to help keep the bridle away from getting into my lines or...

third photo is now time to start packing.
until now its just been taking things apart; so the packing can start.

so that is how the canopy is stored in the stash bag, totally unpacked, yet attempting to keep it somewhat together to make it possilble to take this to pack it anywhere from my living room, to a buddys house, etc. its ready to start packing.

first photo is just the container, weight, and that second tie around the container at the rings (no not through the rings, the webbing ) and that slider is still clamped waiting to get some attention later.

second one is now the lines,-just a spot that helps me keep ensure the tension remains the same, as I watch this spot, shown in the photo as my reference. while the canopy work starts


by that time each cell has been prepared (properly) while the clamps and initial work helped to keep it together to this stage, so it is easier, knowing that it was properly packed to this stage initially allready, so then it was a matter of checking it all prior to starting.
that last photo is having now worked each cell symmetrical, the lines are still in the centre, symmmetrical and tension is kept by that pull cord.
(again, i watch so many walking people pack and use their legs, knees etc. to do a lot of stuff that I juse clamps and the pull up cords to keep lines in their place,

 

this set of photos is perhaps totally redundant for this discussion, its again my OCD to try to show sequence (the canopy preperation to this point was left out purposefully as it was impossible to post it without showing a person identifiable-packing.so i left it out of here.

yes the pull up cord is still there, (i find it hard to keep the line tension with a clamp-and have not figured out how to do this any other way being unable to walk, get up, walk from one end to the other, etc. it takes so much time, and these are ways to try to keep the gear somewhat in 'order' in the bag while stored until its time to 'really'' pack it prior to jumping. (so as I said earlier, this is how the the gear is stored, until next time) I used to have it packed while stored, and pack it again when its time to use, but after learning 2 yrs ago there is a young kid here whose obsessed with BASE and his father (a coach, JM, TM etc. ) had 'half jokingly' told him when hes 16 he can go jump what he wants, as hes then old enough to take responsibility for himself (agreeing or not, with this father is not this discussion-but certainly I have my own strong opinions about having told this kid this when he was 12/13, and this spring when he came to work here again, immediately he came to me asking me to teach him to pack. I KNEW then it was time to keep my gear unpacked, locked up in the house when im working at the DZ (my house always is unlocked as I go back and forth a lot during the day)-so the main reason for deciding to keep the gear like this in a stash bag when not in use is to keep others away from it, as it is totally not useable as it is, when the bag will be opened.-i do not want him/anyone to find 'packed' gear and buggger off one day.

the lines were redone twice after, but didnt take a photo anymore the last time, as i got to go back and forth too much-so started to get lazy with the pictures.

but these lines despite having to redo them twice, are not horrid, (i think)

just need to redo the figure 8 here.

the last photo (again some eliminated in between due to identification purposes)
is just getting ready to finally put it in the container, (yes the pull up cords were removed the slider fixed and these clamps will now go, as its folded into the container.

ok.
blast me, tell me what i need to do different. better, change, eliminate,..??..

i posted this because i wanted the feed back, not because im looking for pats on the back.

although a massage on the back would be nice after one pack job (my skydiving canopy is the same, i flat pack it and sweat like a pig doing it. while ensuring i dont drip all over my gear, it slows me down more and more.)

soon i just wont have the lung capacity to do this, but until then....

i pack, learn to do this better, and jump till the last days.

so now after basically finishing off this job, the pack is finally done, and ready to go.
it wont remain wrapped up in the stash bag after a jump, but i cant leave it packed fully ether, so this became my new 'aternative' to keep it like this in the stash bag, so who ever sees it, has to start again to pack it, if they plan to use it, while also it is not so difficult for me as it would be to start from the beginning each time.

comment time-pls

 
I'm going to toss out an odd ball of an idea. Ever tryed packing on a table? We've always done rounds on tables. I know riggers that do square reserves on tables. I think I would still have to climb up on it to put it in the bag but I hurt my back a little bit a while back and I'm rethinking the bending over kneeling all the time thing. A table is sounding better all the time. If you had a low thin one just above your lap you might be able too reach and move around the pack job easier. And I don't think folding or closing a base rig on a table would be as difficcult as a reserve container or bag. Also if you've got a pin rig there are a number of closing tools that we use in rigging that basically act as a third hand. Some thing like a Terminator that holds things for you even if you let go.

Lee

 
Some thing else I frogot to mention. I've seen people anker their rig and put bungies on the four clamps that they use above the main line groups to keep tension on the main suspension lines. Basically it keeps all the main lines pulled up taunt.

Lee

great to know someone else is thinking what im trying to figure out what I WANT TO DO.
(i'd actually like to be a rigger, and been trying to imagine up a 'wheelchair friendly-but made for chairs yet accessible to walkers- RIGGERS LOFT).

anyways, the gist of it is,

All winter, I've drawn up the basic major plan, the storage of gear, parts etc. is on a 2nd floor, (with a ramp to wheel up to in a spiral and in the middle post is drawers of parts, tools in the lowest ones, etc. so no wasted space. To the top I'd go less often, it is the first floor which is the 'rigging room'.
the gear lays on a turntable.
pivots in the middle, so i can either roll around the table, which is at my 'working height'
but i also can just turn the table itself slightly, if i only need a couple of inches movement, its more efficient to turn the table then to roll forward park and brakes on again,

this table would have a few smaller drawers below it-clearly not deep enough to hit my knees as i sit under this table in my chair-which would come to chest level as i work,
in these drawers i would keep elastics, closing loops, what ever small parts a rigger would need.
this table must be 'lifteable' so walking people can benefit from its use by just lift and lock -like those hospital tray tables over the bed.\


well yes, glad you mentioned it.
im not insane after all in thinking this would be grand.

but currently im trying not to loose my home i live in,
(as my buddy, roomie went in last month-not the topic of this thread-enough said)
until i figure out how i will go follow MY VISION.

read the FAA riggers course this winter, just so i understand exactly what i have on my back an how it works when i skydive,or maybe to pass the time...

so when i find a way, to follow my path in life,
and give up, cut away from this rat race that im barely staying afloat in the cesspool we all swim in to save out necks every day-bills, home, im re thinking all this shit-....

so this table.

what thoughts would you have on what you read?

-its something i want to persue-once i find a way to get here i know i need to be, and do what i know i need to be doing,

got to make a few bucks somehow, somehere,
to get to the next object, to just go where im meant to go.


ideas please=anyone, on the successful manufacture of such a table, easily, and CHEAP,

Yesterday they took out all of Dave's stuff, and now the house is bare,
nothing but floor space, and new ideas, and memories of grand times.

 
I'll think on it a little bit. I'm actually surrounded by ideas here my self. By chance I happened to buy a handicap friendly house about a year ago. I just bought it because it was a really cool house overlooking lake travis but a least one of the former owners must have been in a chair. Every where I look theirs some little mod like the recessed roll under sink area in the kitchen or the big huge drive in shower. Some like the sink don't bother me, I'm short enough that it's not uncomterbale for me. Other things like the drive in shower are a bit anoying. It would take at least four playboy playmates to fill it up.

A few years ago I knew a guy that broke his back jumping. He was a friend of Tom and Rebeca two of the partners in the bussiness at the time. So I had not a front row but at least a second or third row seat to watch him go through all of this shit. Last I saw of him he had just bought a really nice trike and was flying ultralights all across america. He was in a little better shape in the sence that he had held a really good paying job all his life. He was basically ready to retire. The job was good enough that he had compleatly payed off his socialsecurity. They didn't even take money out of his pay check any more. First I'd ever heard of that. When he fucked him self up he's about the only person I know that they actually helped. He got all kinds of help and money back from the goverment which is absolutely unheard of here in the US. That's why we bitch so much about taxes here. Normaly you don't get shit in return for it. I've always heard that canada was better. You might be able to find funding for retraining as a rigger and mods to your work space as you are setting up a bussiness. Ask around, I and others would be willing to write you letters atesting to the fesability of this.

About nine months ago I hurt my back. I'm not parralized but I wound up spending a month on my back. I did something to a disc. still don't know exactly what. Couldn't stand/walk/sit. I was down to crawling back and forth to the toilet. I actually thought about getting a chair but my pride would just not alow it. It was easier to just sleep on the floor and crawl around. I'm better now. About 90% and I think most of the probblems I'm still haveing are from just being inactive for so long. about ready to start jumping again.

A few months after I hurt my self I wound up packing a reserve for a girl. I was getting better but still hurting. I was like "Sure, no probblem." Not. I slaved in agony over it for about three days before I finaly got it closed. OMG that hurt but it was an interesting and edecational experence. Looking back on it and trying to edit out the parts where I was lieing on the floor beside it whimpering I realize that I learned quite a few new tricks. I'm not saying it would be easy but I do think that it could be done.

In the US there are senior and master riggers. In theory senior riggers are basicaly packers and master riggers are suposed to do major repares and alterations, more paperwork things. In reality there are two kinds of riggers. There are packers and there are sewers. In truth this has less to do with their rateing then their personality, interest, and back ground. I'm a sewing rigger. I can do a mean packjob but what I really enjoy is designing and building things. Building something that flies is just cool. There's nothing more rewarding then staying up all night lissening to classical music, don't laugh there's a lot of really evil classical music, building something that has never existed before. You wake up the next day, lift your head up off the sewing machine, look around and it's just there. And then when you test it by climbing to the top of a mountian that no human being has ever stood on top of before and jumping off... well that's just fun. Ya, I think you could learn to pack but I think you could excel at sewing if you have the right personality for it.

Tables... Historicaly a packing table was for rounds. It's basicaly a big long ass table about three feet wide and 40+ feet long to acomidate millitary style c-9 canopies. There's actualy a spec requiring a 3*40 foot table but it's fallen by the wayside and it's generaly acepted that forty feet of liner floor space is adiquit. A lot of people don't even have that. A C-9 is about the only thing you would see that would require a table that long. Most rounds are like 26 ft conicals that are a lot shorter. Most people have a shorter table and just pack the ocasional C-9 on the floor. In the millitary there are huge rooms with all these free standing tables that you can walk all the way around. In truth you only need access to one side. We normaly place it tight against a wall. It helps to keep things from falling off the back side. traditionaly we'll hang peg board and shelves on the wall behind it but there is no reason why they can't be at the end. Most of the tools are used to close the rig and by that time your generaly down at one end of the table. Squares of course are even shorter. I seem to recall that they do their compleat inspection process on a table at PD. I don't think a rotating turn table would do you much good packing except maybe for the closing sequence. What you really need is to be able to move along the length of a long table. It's almost like you need a chair that rolls sideways or a trolly that you could roll onto, lock, and slide from side to side down the length of the table. I'm imagioning a three inch high dolly with a sloaping side that you could roll up on with wheels that would let you slide it and your chair sideways along the table. You might need a strip of wood or something to guide it along the floor. Closeing is another mater. There you would need to be able to turn the rig around. A small turn table two to three feet across at the end of your packing table might be an asset but I'm not sure you have to have it. It would need to be small so you could get close to the rig on all sides. You will need to put some weight on it at times and get some leverage. you'll need some way to lock the table. Maybe just a pull pin in a series of holes. I might skip the drawers under the table. You're going to need as much reach as you can get across the table and you'll need to get "on top" of it some times, ie leaning over it, to get the weight and leverage you'll need all of which argues for keeping it as low as possable. I'm trying to think of exactly how low that would be. I might not be able to work at that hight but I'm not sure it's practical to try and make the table change hight. if you've got somebody else working in your loft they may just have to pack on the floor like every body else.

PIA is comeing up in Feb I think. Reno NV? If you want to be a rigger you should go. Just do it. Buy a fucking plane ticket. It will be worth it.

Tired of typeing. I'll think on it.

Lee

What about a normal office chair then?

Lee,
Thanks for the time and effort to think on this.

I believe i would be the sewing packer.

even now, with the 'baby' experience i have (less the 20 BASE, less then 300 skydives-im just @ a DZ who is awesome to me-let me learn to dive, 'at cost' -ticke to altitude from day 1, lets me 'work' here doing things for jump credit. awesome camera guys, TM's (for when I still want to do something 'out there' in the TM world-there's some wicked TM'ing going on around these corners , and excellent coaches who took chance trusting me, in the air to not take them out with my currently hard knee braces (another project i MUST do, when i get the money-is turn these hard metal braces held together with adhesive tensor bandages-my diving pants have more duck tape then the material left in them-this is real 'hobo' diving this 'gimp freefly team' that ive gathered around me, so theres a reason for me to have been here. but i think i need to move on.... some day, although i initially thught my ash dive will be here after im found dead in my sleep here in this house some day- i have ALS-fatal/terminal neurological condition, deteriates me a little at a time-just so you know that i got a time limit, a deterioration and unpredicatability of both going on with this illness-but i want this concept to be 'pioneered' by a 'disabled' person such as myself helping to set it up and when im gone another jumper with a disability, wether their deaf, fubarred leg, to paralyzed, who wants to be a rigger-can take it over-it would be like a charitable organization in that way-i would so do it, just to give back to itself, buy more equiptment wiith what ever i made-with some retraining...gear parts, tools, all for the org. and its donated upon my decesase -as i signed over my skydiving rig -fairly new-and new this yrs AAD to my DZ for gear to use ...
i just want to set something up.
so it is my way to be able to give back,
in the meantime as i set it up, sure i would go for some self business grants, training etc. there is out there.'problem in my case is that they consider fatality to be 5 yrs or less. so nothing really is 'worth it' to them, im not worth re training because i am 'determined' to die within that 5 yr period .
which wil be up in sept this yr, and im far from dying
so is stephen hawkins, and he's worth the effort,...
anyways, another diversion.\

so retraining is at my own cost.
that is why i read the FAA riggers course material, bought it and now if i did the tests, and became under some rigger they recognixe, that i could get good enough to do x # of pack jobs, graded ,, then propably another test in front of them.
Dont know for sure.
just know that I read their manuals, and all rigging material i can get my hands on,
because i find it interesing.
m OCD in checking, rechecking, wanting things to be
perfect' -yes nothing truly is, but as close as i can accept,
before i can say that i have now learned to do this or that.
being personality traits that would fit either type of rigger, and i would pack also, yet seeing if my condition only weakens me then sewing may last longer then packing.
anyways. the machines cost propably more then the packing table set up, which would cost more then the $250 they give for re training start up costs in materials.
so if you buy a computer, or a riggers basic tools,
they must approve it, and then give up to $250. once in your lifetime-if your 'worth' training, -not 'dying'...
hell who do they think their kidding. were all dying. it isnt noticeable to most, and on their minds as a relaity, they fear it and deny it and stay away.

its not pretty in any manner, yet a part of life, so ive learned to accept it as just that
a part of life. now lets move on with the life part.


these table ideas tossed my way certainly gives me the direction where to look...towards, as for setting things up, and at least apply for the funding, and hope they dont know what ALS is and give the funds

your a real decent human being for not only sharing the knowledge, but your personal experienes and accomodations for them-yes paralysis itself changes ones life-for ever.
perhaps it is only those of us who have it,
who think so,
that it is harder even when you never know what you wake up, or loose throughout the day.-within 4 hours ygoing from having full function in something to nothing.

so clearly the wheelchair accessible rigging loft would not be a project made and funded just for me, or even for me at all, i couuld be too ill to use it by the time it is done
but what a good feeling knowing that someone else is using it.

the fact that more people whove either become disabled in a jump, or just want to be involved in the sport in some manner (after i started skydiving a fellow contacted me and followed suit as a paralyzed skydiver-he had been one prior, and never thought it possible again.... since then 2 or 3 others with paralysis not the mention a BASE jumper himself whose now skydiving as a paralyzed fellow-there enough for a 4 way, or some wicked VFR, a few BASE jumpers -paralyzed men-myself, and several whod like to be-but due to the level of their injury may never skydive solo even.. so if their love is being int the sport, then rigging is a great way.
(i took the judges course-and now are chief judge in some regional and provincial meets, sign peoples accuracy jumps, little things.. that i will be able to perform so long as i can see, and communicate somehow).

it would be good to get a rigging loft that is accessible and the military and PD factories (surely every manufacturer but I ve heard theirs is fantastic to go for a tour, see your canopy made),
are the source for info.

and yes, i can still pack, (i havent yet heard critizism saying 'stop now your pack job will kill you for sure'-which i would expect from anyone who jumps-my buddy this weekend had 'gear fear' as his reserve pack did not look right-e didnt feel the bunny ears ttally filed, nor symmetrical, the pilot chute sticking out at the bottom with it stuck-tight into something.
rightly so, he popped it anda mess came out... trusting your guts, learning everything you can find, talking to whom ever you trust, plracticing, and trying... these are musts i would think.


back to this rigging.
even with BASE gear i think of ideas, (pm'd GreenMachine about this lights on the canopy or lines at it, thing ive tbeen thinking on )...
but with skydivin gear even in my sleep i sometimes take a manta apart, take out the middle few cels turn it into a 5 cell, jump high hop and pop to see IF it flies, and how, if it does.

stranger, i am in the skydiving orld, and perhaps others who jump BASE can appreciate that experimentation desire as well as the modification of gear into something else-seanle.

crazy maybe...

its just the way i think.
if i do the 'apprenticeship' attempt, route,
its the only ooption to hope the person reading my application wont think of the worthiness of their money spent versus the # of years im PREDICTED to live.

i believe i can live much longer.


mpre thoughts, critique onthe hotos,etc
please feel free to jump in to mention things,

like the tied lines was mentioned.

i hope that those photos, and explenation of whats going on helps understand what,andhow it is that i would be storing gear, ready to jump soon, just finish the pack job-which in itself is an endeavour as you said about closing that reserve...
i struggle to close the student gear, and any canopies into containers fitting tightly.

same here.
tired of writing.
need a drink.
and to go to think.