Basejumper.com - archive

While hiking up the cliffs and taking in the views of the Norwegian scenery before jumping off appeals to most, it doesn't do much for me. Instead I like the Idea of scouting an object, looking how you can get in, what security is there, where is the best place to land, and making a quick get away. It sounds much more fun (although I can't comment as I haven't made one BASE jump). Anyway out of sheer boredom, I start pricing up how much a BASE Rig will cost me with accessories etc. On Asylums website they have a "toxic" pilot chute which says "The Toxic is the most stable PC available." they also say "Pilot chute spin and oscillation has been definitively associated with off-heading deployments.". With jumping off buildings you obviously would want every chance of an off heading opening reduced, but is the Toxic worth the money, especially how you will need more then one pilot chute for different building heights/freefall time, and surely packing and body position will reduce off heading openings more then a pilot chute.

While I have seen the Toxic in action
I have not jumped it nor do I know if
it is worth the money.

I will comment on your idea that you
need numerous "building" pilot chutes.

PC's are not object specific but instead
are height or occasionally task specific.

Some guys only have a 42", which is
great for 350' and up. More experienced
jumpers usually have at least 3 pilot chutes:
46" or 48" for low stuff, 42" for medium,
and a smaller PC for very tall objects.

Lastly, have you ever sewed? It is fun but
can be tedious if you are doing something
precise, like a patch or pilot chute, hence
the price reflects the extra labor involved.

The Toxic is a well-built pilot chute -- I own a 42 and love it. It's not so clearly better than other pilot chutes (and in particular other vented pilot chutes) that you'd be unwise to jump with the conventional deal, though. In fact, aside from the one 42, everything I own is of the conventional variety. The short answer is that if you're curious enough to buy one, you should. If you're not that curious, then don't.

Cheers for that, it answered what I wanted to know.

Not if you have a bad PC.
Take care,
space

I use a 42" for 315'

I never used a Toxic and I barely ever have off headings so I am leaning towards the idea that its just a selling gimmick. Could be wrong tho.

Oh and to the OP: If you are gonna be an urban junkie, better save up bail money beforehand. ;)

Psh, we use 42's for our 270s. It's not cuz we think we're hardcore though, it's because we're too damn lazy to change it

Seriously though...it's great motivation to make sure you take at least a 1.5 from 270

I've seen 42's used on a cliff less than 250 ft.

it's all a matter of personal comfort zone.

Now who would do something ridiculous like that!? 42's are only for NRG and above!

+1

pilot chutes and the way they are packed and pitched are probably the most important issue in my opinion on influencing the opening, other that some packing blunder or bad body position during deployment. and more importantly, if you are jumping a building, you should ascertain what the winds are doing near where you will deploy your PC. If they are swirly, you are asking for trouble.

what is your advice on packing PCs?

Admittedly I am only further derailing this thread, but it always seems to me that discussions of pilot chutes and heights are missing something if they ignore the canopy they are extracting. You skinny little bastards jumping 220s that weigh about 10 lbs may do fine with a 38 inch pilot chute on a low jump. My Blackjack 310 is one heavy canopy and I need a healthy delay for a 38 to lift it out of the container and to line stretch. A 42 would probably get the canopy inflated before I hit the ground from 250ft, but then again it might not (even if its a Toxic ). I know a 48 does, and even it seems awfully slow.

So I say to anyone sitting at home reading, "YOU can jump a 250 foot solid object with a 42 inch pilot chute", Your Results May Vary.

the main thing I recommend is to study, and educate yourself. only the jumper must live with their mistakes.

I do NOT recommend that configuration. what lay below helped a lot. I also know at least one 200+ lb jumper with a 293 used a 42, multiple times. no issues.

I suspect he'd laugh if you called him skinny...


but that is an observation, not a recommendation.

I use my 42 because its black with black mesh which is super stealth. Keeps me from being spotted.

I think you're just hung up on things that are big and black with a large circumference.

Why in the world would anyone use a 42 inch pilot chute from 250 feet? I see no advantage for using a 42 instead of a 46. Much larger than a 46 or 48, the fill time on the pilot chute increases notably.

You would have to direct that question to the people who are willing to use a 42 from that height. Taking the rest of my gear into consideration, I'm not one of them. I suspect some would tell you that it has to do with a suspected higher instance of pilot chute hesitation from 46/48 inch pilot chutes. Whether they are right or not is a different discussion that I am probably only qualified to listen to.

My only point was that there are more factors to be considered in pilot chute selection than altitude; canopy size and weight among them.

Sometime ago, some of us did some "loose" testing on 46s v 42s from 220ft with canopies from 240 to 280.

The ending thought, was that the 42 has a more consistent initial inflation at lower airspeed (go n throw / 0.5-1.0 secs) and thus sometimes giving better performance (marginally) than the 46 (visually though so obviously not worthwhile evidence)

I assume with the 48 v 42, this difference is exaggerated more so.

The other thing I played around with the 42 v 46, was the way that the PC is held and thrown. My ending thought, was that to expose the mesh with airflow entering from the moment of exit and thus inflating the PC whilst holding onto it, and then just "letting go" or more so "flicking the wrist", certainly gave better performance than the folding of the PC and throwing it, which I have seen people do with a 46. Folding up the 46 and throwing it to me seemed to be a waste of time and less efficient than exposing the mesh and inflating a 42 prior to "flicking".

I used to use the exposed mesh method on all HH jumps, but obviously this caused other issues to address other than PC inflation when taking longer delays.

The only time I had a PC hesi from this height it was with a 46 - I do not know what that cause was as I was jumping solo.

Obviously, weapon of choice for lower end freefalls were always (mostly) a 46, as it just seem to put the mind more at rest having a larger PC in your hand.

Just my (not particularly current) thoughts/experience/findings

-M

remember, I'm reporting an observation, not a recommendation...

46 inch pc's tend to be large, a mess to jump stowed, and gear pouches are not really made to hold that much material.

some exit points can pose challenges going hand held.

what lies below the exit point?

a 42 may not be the optimal configuration, based on inflation and other aerodynamics, but it might balance out other hazards.

this is BASE, and everyone is a test jumper. eventually things will be tried.

You should see my strapon