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Hi Everyone,

I'm not ready for BASE just yet, I know i have to get more time in freefall and under canopy. After speaking to a few people at my DZ and exchanging some emails with Johnny Utah and Apex it seems like the magic number of jumps is between 150-200 minimum before one should consider taking an FJC.

Now granted that might be a pre-requisite for the course it doesnt mean anything to me and doesnt help me to know when im ready or prepare for the course in anyway. I know people with 10x's the number of jumps that i have who i wouldnt trust on the other end of a 20 foot stick in the air.

As with climbing, im dialed as hell when im jumping. OVerly redundant on my checks and always going over my exit, my gear, my landing etc. Maybe that will go away with more time (like alot of other divers who just get complaicent) but i sure as hell hope not!

I dont think X number of Jumps is a good pre-req and what i need from all you experinced and newbie BASE jumpers is a legit list of things that i should be able to do and feel comfortable with before i decide to sign up. Wether it takes someone more than 200 jumps or less than 150 let me know how i should feel and when and why i should know im ready.

To tell you the truth i belive i will be ready before 150 jumps to take an FJC and now i need your advice on when you started how you felt and what you should know and be able to do before you start.

Please be constructive, id really appreciate it!

If you would have been long enough on this site, you would know what kind of answers you will get and that your post "I'm not ready, but I'm ready" is futile..

That was exactly the kind of post i was hoping to not get......i know im not ready and i was hoping someone with a little experince can explain to me what i should know and be able to do before i can consider myself ready....and not just give me a bullsh*t number that dosent mean anything. But Sangi you couldnt even do that could you lol, why dont you drop the im better than you attitude and actually help someone who is sincerely asking for advice.....I mean this is a beginners (who are looking to get into the sport) type of forum isnt it? Or is this the forum that you experinced jumpers setup to make fun of the newbies you used to be only a few years back, i guess we will find out

some focus on jump numbers. some focus on tasks. check out the Articles for some thoughts.

one thing rarely mentioned is time in sport. even if someone does not jump hard, they can absorb a lot just hanging out and helping at a dz. they'll see how gear evolves, they'll see what people struggle to understand, weather, psychology of jumping, how they will react when they watch someone get hurt, different ways to land a parachute, etc.

teachers in the public schools complain that students are poorly served by "teaching to the test." I can argue that jumpers that jump just to meet the requirements are cheating themselves as well.

if you want to survive at BASE, learn how to spot the small details many do not discuss, and don't emphasize in list of minimums for a FJC. learn to sit, watch, and learn. (it migh come in handy when scouting out an object!)

When you step into base, your canopy skills are pushed to the absolute limit under poor conditions that make veteran skydivers pee in their pants. Low or no light, down wind/no wind, uneven ground, flying under wires under stress of being caught. 200 jumps are barely enough to get an understanding of the canopy skills on the easiest tame day of base. Which if you have not noticed, tame day jumps dont really exist in the US except potato land. You are going from a 3500' opening with days to line up your approach with a flag and grass to 250' opening in the dark, 10 seconds toggle to landing, downhill, rocky lz at 2am.

I am exceptionally fast and athletic at learning things. I had 700 jumps in a year and half when i started base meaning i was very current at a tight, windy, dz. it seems like not enough time to get the requisite canopy skills for the hard patient ground that is waiting to swallow us up in base. I was a climber too and this is not even in the same universe with training and danger. Take your time. The base objects will be there for the next 1000 years. Good Luck

Oh no no, I'm not claiming anything like this.

In this situation it's quite the opposite I think..


As davelepka from DZ.com would say - "you're not special, you're like everyone else". You will not be ready before 150 skydives to take up BASE relatively safely, you will not have the mandatory skills aquired from skydiving, it's simply not enough time. Sure you could go with the minimum requirements, but think about it, would you REALLY be ready?

If you're already thinking about BASE at this low experience skydiving stage, then it seems you're not really enjoying it.. Maybe you should find a discipline you love in skydiving, practice more, learn as much as possible.. Seriously, focus on achieving goals in skydiving for now, BASE will always be here, no need to rush headon so soon, this applies to you and me and everyone..

Have fun and goodluck.

I had 90 jumps when i started BASE, and I can definitely agree that the jump limits are set there for a reason. I probably should have done more jumps.
But every person has different feelings on it.

Perrine is easy. Go for it.

HEY SMIRGIRL,

please if you had been around here for enough time you would have noticed that Sangi's reply to your post is most certainly the most accurate and full of common sense that he has ever posted here.

in other words of what he said, , you may think you are special, but you are not more special than any of the others on the board. Good luck.

I've read plenty of stories where people had far more than the minimum recommended jumps. they all say they wish they had more. they realized how poorly prepared they were.

I still can't recall ANYONE coming back and saying how it was easy, they had it nailed, they were over-prepared, etc.

it's BASE.
make your call and be prepared to deal with the consequences.

Here's a quick non-structured ramble on the subject.

The act of BASE jumping is easy. Jump, throw, grab toggles flare. There is a lot more to that act though.

If all you had was a 486 foot object with a big landing zone and good weather conditions, you'd likely be fine as long as you turn into the wind quick enough and be smart about not flying into trees and rocks.

In real BASE life, this isn't the case. Most people say they won't jump over their heads. The truth is, if there's a close jumpable object, you'll probably roll the dice and try it.

Canopy skills vary. If you're smart, you won't jump objects that require pin point accuracy and immediate canopy input. By immediate, I mean the moment the riser slap your hands, not a second later. Realistically, if you're given the gun, you'll pull the trigger. You will roll the dice and go for it.

If a person with limited time performing an activity feels comfortable doing that activity, it doesn't necessarily mean anything about their skill. Most people don't know what they don't know. You are one of those people. One day you will know what you don’t know.

What do you need to do? Well, here's what you SHOULD do. Go have fun skydiving. Get good at it. Go fly whatever canopy you have and learn how it works. Don't just use it for transportation to the ground. Do not believe that a soft landing means you're good at flying a parachute.

RIGGING!!!

Learn how to assemble your own main onto risers. Learn how to do proper continuity checks. Learn to inspect all the components.

Rigging is not hard. It is not required but understanding proper rigging should be mandatory. You are after all, your own BASE rigger. Generally speaking, it's your system, no one else is going to use it and now one else will inspect it for you..

Misrouted brake lines. Setting brakes improperly, improperly attached pilot chutes, twisted links, and more. It's not acceptable but it happens fairly often. Simple rigging mistakes that should never occur.

There are no set rules. Just try to be realistic in your goals and be mindful of others. Don't be a vandal to gain access. Be respectful of your surroundings and honest with yourself. Pushing limits is ok, just make the push in small increments. Things don’t always go right. Knowing there are risks is not the same as understanding what that risk is. Accepting risks means you will accept an unknown risk.
Wear your protective gear!

Hope that helps.

Edit: Skydiving is fun. Keep at it for a while. Don't stop just because you begin base jumping some day.

As a climber do you ever marvel at how non redundant a parachute system is? Except for the reserve chute, there really isnt many parts that are redundant. Single points of attachment on almost everything. I lol about this sometimes.

There are four things you need to start BASE jumping with below average injury risk:

1. Parachute skills that are about preventing object strikes and landing you safely away from obstacles. Flat turns, flying backwards in a stall, landing accuracy, landing down-wind/cross-wind, landing up-hill/down-hill, deep brake approaches, flying and landing on rear risers only. You need to do these things instinctively. You need to do these things under a BASE canopy. This could take less than 150 jumps with appropriate focus, but many if not most skydivers only learn enough to deal with ideal sunny-day conditions.

2. Basic rigging skills and some intuitive sense on how the gear works. You need to be able to inspect your gear (things like a worn 3-ring loop that lets go will really suck without a reserve, less bad things like incorrectly stowed brakes lead to potential problems like flying and landing on rear risers where you're more likely to over control and have a hard landing from a low stall) and pack consistently since that influences heading control that keeps you away from objects. This should take less than 150 jumps with appropriate focus, but most skydivers ignore it.

3. Mental state. You can't be overwhelmed just because you're jumping with a parachute. When bad things happen you need to remain at a low enough stimulation level to deal with them. I don't see this happen a lot with less than a few hundred jumps. One guy I started BASE jumping with couldn't even count to three which isn't a good thing when you'd like to open below bridges where off-heading openings don't matter. You need to have had somewhat bad things happen and have dealt with them successfully. If that's been happening enough before you get to 500 skydives you probably have bad judgement and shouldn't be BASE jumping.

4. Judgment. There are times when it's inappropriate to jump (winds that are turbulent or blowing towards an object). There are objects which aren't the best idea (I won't jump anything that doesn't leave be enough room to turn around and get to a safe landing area from an off-heading opening). There are things beyond your current skill level. People learn judgment through experience; although with parachuting sports experience often involves trips to the orthopedic surgeon so you want to learn from second hand experience. You need to participate in parachute sports long enough for that to happen. You need enough time to realize how much you don't know. I don't think I've ever seen a guy (with less testosterone, women do better) learn this in just 200 jumps and think 3 years + 500 jumps as an active skydiver is a better starting point.

I had 800 or 900 skydives when I started BASE, didn't really know how much I didn't know before that, would not have survived as long if I'd started much sooner, and wouldn't have had hairy tree/boulder landings if I'd gotten into classic accuracy before starting. All the people who really stand out in my mind as 'that guy' with object strikes that happened jumping in marginal winds or were scary to watch kicking their legs like little girls were close to the recommended 200 jump minimum.

Hey, i still kick my legs time to time.

Edit: Jimmy with 900 BASE jumps still has his left leg kick on EVERY single BASE jump.

No, it isn't. But it's the only non-subjective thing that can be put out there that doesn't depend on the reader's perception of their own performance.


To go to the Perrine or another low hassle object and bash out an FJC and some supervised jumps? Yeah, sure.

To go out into the real world of BASE with solid objects, tiny landing areas, night jumps, etc. etc? No, you almost* certainly wont be. You might get away with it, if nothing goes wrong that, say, requires you to make the right decision, perfectly executed in a fraction of a second to avoid an object strike. With more jumps (yes, they need to be good jumps, learning jumps etc - but still a large quantity of jumps) you'll be more likely to get out of that situation with judgement and experience, without those jumps, you're relying on luck.

Basically, you're looking at the recommendations the wrong way. The 150 - 200 jump numbers for those courses are absolute minimums and they already assume that you are actually using those jumps to learn, not just sleepwalking through them. Don't think "Well if the average guy is ready after 200 then I'll be ready way before then". That just isn't true. You should be thinking "If the minimum is 200 and I want to start BASE ASAP, I'd better make sure I'm really fucking good by the time I've got 200 skydives. Then when I get there, I'll re-evaluate how good I think I've become."



* I say almost. You might really be Johnny Balls McSuperman and take to it like a duck to water. Unfortunately we have no idea if you're really that talented, and neither do you. Those with below average competence are far more prone to overestimating their actual abilities.

hookitt is right and is giving very good sound advice.

I started BASE way too early i didnt have a clue really the things that can and do go wrong very very quickly! but i had some luck on my side and have gotten away with some sketchy shit.

im not going to re say everything that has already been said but the one really good advice i got before i started was to get into CRW, not only do you gain the skills under canopies (rear riser stalls,cross controls blah blah....) CRW canopies (lightnings) are very similar to BASE canopies, you also land off the DZ quite a bit when you get carried away etc.... which is awesome practice to land in random and unfamiliar places quite similar to base.

Remember
Dont Die!

Jamie

Kicking is only bad if it throws your body position off and induces an off heading.

Hi Guys,
As another 'newbie' looking for as much info as possible, I must say that this has been one of the most informative threads (without too much criticism) that I've come across.
As some of you stated "I started too early" and "I didn't realize how much I didn't know", that is exactly what we are tying to avoid! Thanks for your patience explaining in this thread and don't take offense if we think we might be ready when we're not, some of you felt the same way and started too early too!
I have 90 skydives, A & B licences, Canopy Handling 1 and 2, Jumpmaster 1 and have jumped 15 different aircraft in 7 different DZ's in 5 countries. I'm trying to pick up as much advice and experience as I can along the way and would really love to start BASE when I feel that I am ready (which is not yet ), in the meantime, I will continue to pore over as much info as I can get my hands on for both Skydiving and BASE and hope to see some of you guys out there some day.
Keep up the good advice, we need and appreciate it!

Did you notice that jumping out of a plane regardless of location is still the same? It makes little difference except the dropzone is slightly different. Some places require better judgment than others but for the most part, it's about the same. BTW, I love skydiving in new locations.

What is canopy handling 1 and 2, and Jumpmaster 1? I'm in the US so we don't have those.

Lots of young jumpers I've met really
lack packing and rigging skills hence:

-Pack your own main
-Learn how to pack a tandem
-Watch your reserve being packed
-Learn how to swap out pilot chutes
-Learn how to finger trap your brakes

Not all of these transfer exactly but the
understanding will help you in both sports.

@ hookitt - Canopy Handling 1 + 2 are canopy courses that are run by the BPA (British Parachuting Association) which require specific landing targets, lots of use of rear risers both for landings and avoidance manoeuvres.
Jumpmaster 1 is also run by the BPA " to be able to perform flight line checks prior to boarding" and "to be responsible for spotting prior to exit",
Great courses to take, which are required as you progress in the UK. I think you guys have similar levels in the US.
@ GreenMachine - good tips, thx!

Hey dude, where do you jump? (Actually, if you answer I probably won't have a clue where you're talking about anyway but...)

I'm just visiting the UK at the moment, but there's a really cool crew around here, spread around a few different DZs. If you can get on board with this, it might help you meet a few dudes http://www.basejumper.com/...;;page=unread#unread

That and CRW is just scarily fun and good quality 7 cell time.

+1

@runnit - I;m living in Holland at the mo, so no chance to meet up with the group at Langar... too bad! Thanks for the heads up though, appreciated

No worries. Thought you might be in the UK when you mentioned BPA ratings.

Good luck hunting around anyway.

BJ