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why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
serious question.

why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?

nothing says "dont help/mentor me" like an overeager, "it wont happen to me" attitude.

the most valuable asset for any aspiring jumper is TIME IN THE SPORT

be it skydiving, packing, ground crewing, its all FUN and its all in your best interest.

it is also, the only one that cant be bought.

do yourselves a favor, and chill out. wait. ask questions. learn the how and why for all aspects of parachuting.

think of it like racing motorcycles. only a cockheaded fool would go out and buy a topoftheline race bike, and take it straight to the track.

he is guaranteed to get hurt, if not killed WHEN not IF

the wise individual starts on a smaller bike, takes it slowly and builds his/her skillset over YEARS.

time in the sport. it cant be bought.

think about it.
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Re: [avenfoto] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
I liked this question so much, I made it sticky!
Smile

personally, skydiving wants to constantly recruit more and more people. thus they develop more and more techniques that enables less motivated/capable/quality people to jump. they get greeted by folks whose job it is to make them feel comfortable. it eases the process of extracting money from the customers.

the newbies expect the same treatment when the come to BASE. they want a warm, inviting atmosphere, may be willing to pay money, and want somebody else to eliminate most of the risk for them.

since I know of zero commercial BASE operations in the US, they won't find it.

but, as always, that is just one opinion and it could be wrong!
Wink
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Re: [avenfoto] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
I think it looks and seems so simple that new people have trouble processing the difficulty and risk. Jump, pull, land. What's so hard? And those aerials...who can't pull off a triple flip from 400 feet?
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Re: [wwarped] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
wwarped wrote:
skydiving wants to constantly recruit more and more people. thus they develop more and more techniques that enables less motivated/capable/quality people to jump. they get greeted by folks whose job it is to make them feel comfortable.

From what I have learned, it's always good to know where you've been in order to know where you are going.

In the old days of BASE, which I wasnt a part of, BASE at the DZ was Taboo. Have we gotten away from that? Do all the YouBube videos invite more and more than in the past? Of course they do. The generation of kids getting into BASE now have been raised getting what they want NOW! And BASE is no exception. And when they walk in from a baby sat environment (AFF, or not, life, home, what ever) and they walk in here wanting BASE NOW, and someone on here hurts their feelings and smacks that spoilledness right of their ass and they don't have anyone to cry too, then they take it out on the guys who are trying to help them.


Welcome to the forums.
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How many jumps did you participate in as ground crew before you made your first jump?
Everyone always talks about needing x amount of skydives and putting in the work, but how many times were you a non-jumping participant to other jumpers prior to making your first jump?

Or how many times do you think sums up "putting in the work"?
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Post deleted by Dorkzonehero
 
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Re: [Dorkzonehero] Typical skydivers attitude
In reply to:
If you cant find the shortcuts, it means youre not looking hard enough and you are obviously not the "right people".

Ahahahahahhaa, love it!
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Re: [Dorkzonehero] Typical skydivers attitude
you make some valid points.

In reply to:
But thats not up to him, or any other random person on the internet. Its my call. There definatly shortcuts for the "right people" into basejumping. If you cant find the shortcuts, it means youre not looking hard enough and you are obviously not the "right people".

youre absolutely right. and the best "shortcut" into the sport is a solid MENTOR.



he/she already knows the locations,the players, the recommendations and the best way to go about it all. they can find you gear, show you access, and share the small details and experiences that can make your path into the sport easier and safer.

the long road involves a FJC, a 3,000 dollar custom rig, and often detours thru the hospital, jail, and basejumper.com

we all are free to make our own choices. regardless of the recommendations, rules, advices whatever.

i could go walk into traffic butt-ass naked right this second if i wanted too.

it certainley dosent make it smart.
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Re: [Dorkzonehero] Typical skydivers attitude
Dorkzonehero wrote:
But it seems to me experienced skydivers makes way worse judgement calls than "straight from the street"; bmx, paraglide, and extreme skiers guys. Skydivers are used to landing on a golf course, follow strict rules and think they are really awesome. Operating left and right on a toggle is the only advantage skydivers have. All the other skills are disadvantages.
Cool
Air sense and mental flexibility is more important than skydiving skills for sure. It does seem like the best BASE jumpers I know are the ones with the least skydives and therefor the least terrifying habits. Skydiving is a great basis for BASE education but DEF not the only one and too much emphasis on it can be very bad. The air is way different close to the ground than it is miles above it.
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Re: [avenfoto] Typical skydivers attitude
There is also something to point out. The right motivation for doing something.
If one start Base for going beyond one's limits and self accomplishment is ok but to start jumping just to show off and cause you look Coolest..and all hot chicks will be around you..hmmm..
After breaking bones and staying in hospitals, being a cripple or worse..who's gonna look so "cool"ShockedPirate???
Yep- is a good idea to visit and talk to other jumpers who had accidents...to understand that that this game is not only fun ..but could be deadly as well..!!
There will always be people that are not supposed to listen to advices..Do not worry...Pain has always been the Best Teacher..
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Re: [gauleyguide] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
Fuckin A, you hit the nail on the head. BASE is the "media darling"....At my DZ we have to ride a shuttle, from check in, to aircraft, and back after landing...for the last 5yrs+ ,,,every trip involves a whuffo asking if you BASE?...not intersted in skydiving...with that much attention is it any surprise that there are so many people coming in to skydiving with the goal of BASE jumping, WE! encourage it in our forums.."Gotta learn to skydive before you can BASE"USPA is the big benefactor in the attention on BASE yet they are just barely coming to terms with that.
Anyway,... just ranting, peace Stealthyb
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Re: [Dorkzonehero] Typical skydivers attitude
Finely a valid post from you, and i agree to almost all of it when it comes to you. You are different than everybody else, and it is maybe one of you among 100 or more. You are living 3 times faster than most, and have no time or patience to wait for anything, or neither afraid to do it the hard way.

I am quite different than you, and went the long way mostly by myselves, and me and the others from the same period made the highway for you ;-)

My primary goal in BASE was as simple to survive. Today that seems to easy!



Have
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Re: [Dorkzonehero] Typical skydivers attitude
While I agree with a lot of what you have to say, i have to add the addendum that what you don't know about base jumping is what usually fucks you up.
Why is there such an aversion to wanting to hang with a mentor who has already learned some lessons? Call me lazy or whatever, but i'd rather benefit from someone else's experience and judgement vs. learning hard lessons myself. The only negative i see there is that you have to be patient and not get what you want now, now, now.
I totally get the base-exclusive, don't do what i do" mentality that a lot of people tend to develop, but i think that if you have someone asking for help, you shouldn't tell them to bugger off. That said, this ISN'T a SPORT per se, and none of us have an obligation to get new members. Even so, if you have an up-and-coming jumper trying to pick your brain, it's better to take them along than to make them go it alone.

just my $.02
A.T.
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Re: [thrillseek] Typical skydivers attitude
In reply to:
Even so, if you have an up-and-coming jumper trying to pick your brain, it's better to take them along than to make them go it alone.
not at all.
noones making anyone go it alone, but im not obligated to help them either.

like it or not, you have to pass a few tests, and often times you probably dont even realize youre being tested.

heres an example.
i have helped exactly 2 people into the sport.
ive had 3 students.

one had 500 or so sktdives and expressed interest .read all the recommended articles, ahd the right gear, followed "the path"
tower engineer with access to primo objects and the inside track to them. gate codes and elevator access. bought the beer, drove insane distances just to ferry the load 2 miles from the meetup to the object.
waits alone in parking lot 2 hrs just to shuttle us back to the cars.
sounds great right?

what if he also had terrible judgement and an opiate addiction?


student two is a quiet individual. a little socially akward which resulted in being the dropzone scapegoat, nobody likes him. totalled more street bikes on one wheel than anyone else ive ever met. killed himself under canopy once a few years ago at the dz, got brought back to life by an onsite medic. spent a year in a wheelchair, came back, went to bridge day solo with an old homemade velcro rig and a raven and made 4 jumps alone.



student three called me with exactly 102 skydives. kicker is thyre all militarry jumps from 800ft high speed round static lines at night to 30k foot spec ops halo insertions. exhibits exceptional canopy skills and pattern comprehension. never made a "fun" jump in his life. we did a 4way round for his first sport jump and he even cracked a smile.
airforce pj. and a medic to boot.


which two do you think passed "the test"?

im a little drunk and i guess its dificult to convey things thru the internet but i guess what im trying to say is ,
anyone with money can buy a ticket to the show, but not everyone get invited backstage.




but thats where the partys at. Wink
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Re: [avenfoto] Typical skydivers attitude
...the after party...
that's the one you want! :-)
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Re: [juanitos] Typical skydivers attitude
juanitos wrote:
If one start Base for going beyond one's limits and self accomplishment is ok but to start jumping just to show off and cause you look Coolest..and all hot chicks will be around you..hmmm..

WOAH I was told when i joined this forum that base jumpers got all the girlsTongue

But I would agree that a mentor seems the best option because of there experience and knowledge and no one is obligated but there will always be someone willing to help a newbie.

BTW looking for a mentor, 2 skydives but complete confidence I won't get hurt Cool
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Re: [avenfoto] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
I've done a minimal amount of skydives and studied everything I could find on BASE jumping. It took a little over a year before I was ready to jump. A lot of people call that a shortcut. I've tried to get on some ground crews to meet new people and learn what I could, but since I took a "shortcut" no one seems to be very helpfull. I guess I'm just confused on how 3 years of flight school and a year studing BASE is a shortcut. What do you guys think?
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Re: [kellyface272] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
kellyface272 wrote:
I've done a minimal amount of skydives and studied everything I could find on BASE jumping. It took a little over a year before I was ready to jump. A lot of people call that a shortcut. I've tried to get on some ground crews to meet new people and learn what I could, but since I took a "shortcut" no one seems to be very helpfull. I guess I'm just confused on how 3 years of flight school and a year studing BASE is a shortcut. What do you guys think?

Flight school just makes you a slightly smarter meat bomb when you hit the ground.

I think calling out other jumpers in your area 'chicken shit' and a crew that doesn't fuck around qualifies you as an advanced student at best.

Some pilots make shitty canopy pilots. I know I was when I started skydiving.

The necessary prep is whatever you make it out to be. But if people are avoiding you, you probably haven't done enough of it.

The minimal amount is a horrible thing. Not because at 99 jumps you are unsafe, and at 101 you are ready for base, but because people try and justify things as such.

More of anything never hurt anyone, except my goldfish who I fed till he died from over-eating.

But I ain't that smart.

BTW, it's maggot's birthday, I am going out to have a drink for him.

_justin
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Re: [jdatc] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
jdatc wrote:
kellyface272 wrote:
I've done a minimal amount of skydives and studied everything I could find on BASE jumping. It took a little over a year before I was ready to jump. A lot of people call that a shortcut. I've tried to get on some ground crews to meet new people and learn what I could, but since I took a "shortcut" no one seems to be very helpfull. I guess I'm just confused on how 3 years of flight school and a year studing BASE is a shortcut. What do you guys think?

Flight school just makes you a slightly smarter meat bomb when you hit the ground.

I think calling out other jumpers in your area 'chicken shit' and a crew that doesn't fuck around qualifies you as an advanced student at best.

Some pilots make shitty canopy pilots. I know I was when I started skydiving.

The necessary prep is whatever you make it out to be. But if people are avoiding you, you probably haven't done enough of it.

The minimal amount is a horrible thing. Not because at 99 jumps you are unsafe, and at 101 you are ready for base, but because people try and justify things as such.

More of anything never hurt anyone, except my goldfish who I fed till he died from over-eating.

But I ain't that smart.

BTW, it's maggot's birthday, I am going out to have a drink for him.

_justin


I really must have worded that wrong. The people that I was jumping with are who I'm calling chicken shits, they know who they are.

I still skydive whenever I can. I stick to my area, just to be sure not to piss anyone off. I've only jumped one site, which has never been jumped before I did, to my knowledge anyway.

I like to think of myself as a lazer-guided meat bombLaugh.
Thanks for the feedback!
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Re: [kellyface272] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
when someone agrees to jump with you, they generally are agreeing to take care of you when the shit hits the fan. they will tend to you and risk arrest.

after seeing a broken body or two, some people may not be ready to accept a new person quickly into their circle.

so, remember, you might do everything by the book. you might be a wonderful beginner that folks would enjoy helping. they still may not be ready to do so...

or you could be a dick.
Tongue

I got no clue!
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Re: [kellyface272] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
kellyface272 wrote:
I've done a minimal amount of skydives and studied everything I could find on BASE jumping. It took a little over a year before I was ready to jump. A lot of people call that a shortcut. I've tried to get on some ground crews to meet new people and learn what I could, but since I took a "shortcut" no one seems to be very helpfull. I guess I'm just confused on how 3 years of flight school and a year studing BASE is a shortcut. What do you guys think?


Skills for making parachute jumps come from making parachute jumps. A hundred to two of the right sort of jumps usually are enough to develop decent skills and gear knowledge.

A manageable psychological arousal level is needed to have a good chance of dealing with things when they go wrong. A few hundred jumps getting used to the skydiving environment make that more likely when you go to BASE.

Judgement comes from first and second hand experience or time in the sport. For most people this seems to take at least 500 jumps and a few years skydiving to realize how much they really don't know (one painful trip to the orthopedic surgeon sometimes does the trick). Hopefully this carries over into the BASE environment which is less forgiving but that's not a given.

Without good skills, psychological situation, and judgement your chances of getting hurt and killed are much higher.

Lots of us don't like it when our friends get hurt and killed, so we wouldn't do anything to encourage you and may avoid you so we don't suffer when you do something stupid following some one else's guidance (who probably has bad judgement, because otherwise they'd feel the same as we did).

Some people are just selfish. They don't want people jumping with them who are more likely to get an object closed by dying or needing an ambulance ride.

Three years of flight school should have taught you something about weather and flying patterns. Studying BASE jumping may have given you some book knowledge. But that's just a tiny part of what you need to stay healthy as a BASE jumper.
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Re: [DrewEckhardt] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
First... Thank you guys! The feedback is great! I learned a long time ago that when you feel that you're done learning is when you kill yourself. I've lived by that motto since, and you guys just reinforced it. Thanks again!

Jon
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Re: [kellyface272] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
Oh yeah... I am a dickLaugh. As a manager it's required.Wink
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Re: [kellyface272] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
kellyface272 wrote:
I've done a minimal amount of skydives

Jon, what do you consider a "minimal amount of skydives"?
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Re: [WatchYourStep] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
Enough to get the feel for flying canopies. That's what I think minimal. I could be wrong.
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Re: [kellyface272] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
kellyface272 wrote:
Enough to get the feel for flying canopies. That's what I think minimal. I could be wrong.

So Jon in your case how many jumps was that?
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Re: [WatchYourStep] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
I'd say I got the "feel" in about 3 jumps; definately not enough, but if you can't figure out how to fly an airfoil in fair weather in 10-15 jumps... you don't belong in the air at all. I started learning BASE specifics at 10 jumps. I would have liked to have about 30 before trying a jump. I think that I pooped a little during deployment.Laugh

Anyway, bring on the flaming.
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Re: [Dorkzonehero] Typical skydivers attitude
I am so glad to read that lot!

I'll tell you exactly why this particular beginner is impatient and wants to get off a cliff NOW NOW NOW: it's because a surgeon told me last month that I'm in all probability going to be dead pretty soon. Oops, that probably came across as a bit of a downer, I can only promise you it isn't, but you'd probably have to be looking at it from inside my head to see it that way.

This isn't a deathwish sort of thing, this is me deciding it's time to try out all the things which I've always wanted to do but been too busy, and BASE is high on the list.

I don't want to avoid learning the ropes and being sensible for the sake of it, to use someone else's motorbike analogy (I'm into bikes), I started on a small bike and moved up... admittedly hitting the top speed on every bike I've ever owned the first time I went out on it... I can be patient, I just don't see a lot of point in it when my body's going to give out on me before long, and I might as well make the most of my health while I've got it (I'm 31 and seemingly healthy as anyone).

Incidentally, I'm not looking for anyone to put themselves in a dumb situation by saying "come and jump of something" or "here's how to cheat the system and get yourself where you wanna be without doing any training"... but if anyone's got any advice/ links, I'd be exTREMEly grateful!

Typical impatient beginner. With a reason.
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Re: [Rextacy] Typical skydivers attitude
please don't let BASE be the last thing accomplished on that list of yours...
ShockedUnsure
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Re: [Rextacy] Typical skydivers attitude
Have you ever thought that your surgeon might be wrong? That wouldn't be the first time. Just something to keep in mind. Wink
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Re: [Smilediver] Typical skydivers attitude
Thank you, thoughts much appreciated! Doesn't really know whether my surgeon's wrong or not, I know enough neurology to be able to interpret an MRI...

And I have no intention of BASE being the last thing ticked off, it doesn't really matter whether you have a year or a century left, all you've got to look forward to is the remaining 100% of your life, so one might as well not waste it! I just ain't got time for major training and a few hundred plane jumps...

Thanks again for your thoughts, you lovely people!
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Re: [Rextacy] Typical skydivers attitude
Rextacy wrote:
I just ain't got time for major training
Then you're SOL. Even if you find someone to take you on w/o a skydiving prerisiquite, you would still have to do major training. It's not like some guy is going to wave his dick in your face, mumble some magic words and say "poof" you're a Base Jumper. Ain't gonna happen. Coincidentally, if you have the time and a little money, you could easily knock out 100 jumps before the end of the summer, then make a jump or two a Bridge Day. But, in order for that to happen, you're gonna have to quit whining on the interweb and get off your butt and do something.
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Re: [stitch] Typical skydivers attitude
It's not like some guy is going to wave his dick in your face,
mumble some magic words and say "poof" you're a baSe jumper.
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Re: [stitch] Typical skydivers attitude
A heartfelt thank you for the words of wisdom, yeah, thanks for that!

If I had the time and a little money, I would do a hundred jumps by the end of the summer. I don't. I need to try and cram an entire professional lifetime into the next 4 years. I have a lot to do and any money I have gets prioritised accordingly. I realise this may sound offensive, but BASE jumping's actually not all that near the top of my list of things to do... though that in no way implies I'm not in love with the idea. Work and family however, come first.

Much though I don't appreciate the idea of some guy waving his dick in my face and saying abracadabra, I really never have considered it. In fact I can think of few things more likely to make me run head-first over a cliff without a parachute.
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Re: [stitch] Typical skydivers attitude
may I ask that we keep this thread more general and less specific in nature?

if we get lost in the details of one case, the thread will effectively get hijacked. then I'll probably end up splitting off the tangential stuff...
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Re: [wwarped] Typical skydivers attitude
Yeah Rex... follow rules... cause... wait, what was the topic?
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Post deleted by Racha_Rodriguez
 
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Re: [Racha_Rodriguez] Typical skydivers attitude
Laugh That's brilliant, you're my new hero!!

Space it out a bit more though; I wasn't going to read it because of the big block of text that was all daunting and stuff and then I read it anyway and it was good..... Unimpressed
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Post deleted by Racha_Rodriguez
 
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Re: [Racha_Rodriguez] Typical skydivers attitude
In reply to:
sorry it got wordy

No apologies necessary, I am just being an ass hole.

In reply to:
I bought a rig with about two hundred sky dives, spent months and months on end everyday researching every avenue of BASE I could find, learned how to pack from video, and basically followed any BASE jumper I knew to pick up anymore info. I slipped questions in here and there when I could.

Doesn't sound like you were taking any shortcuts.
In fact, it sounds like you put in a lot of hard work before doing your first jump.

...and then doing your first 20 alone...

I wasn't joking; that is some old school hard core right there and good on you for pulling it off.

Edited to say that I think I get your point though, but you are probably the exception to the rule.

When the BASE jumpers at my dz saw that I was putting in the time packing, gathering technical knowledge, (and jumping) the attitudes changed. In that I do not mean that there was total rejection or cold shoulder, I just mean that it was like: "Ok we know that you want to BASE because you said so, now just do the time to show us that you want to jump." Once I had done that, most BASE jumpers and one in particular would go out of their way to show me the ropes.

This is the way it was with newbees and this is the way I hope it still is.
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Post deleted by Racha_Rodriguez
 
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Re: [Racha_Rodriguez] Typical skydivers attitude
That is an awesome story. I can't imagine doing my first twenty jumps alone with no training. Shocked

However, I find it very hard to believe that you could not save up enough money to take a course in a years time. Packing four tandems a week would give you over $2000, as would working an extra eight hours a week at minimum wage or saving a mere six dollars a day.
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Post deleted by UberChris
 
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Re: [mr_prick] Typical skydivers attitude
I removed a post. it would be acceptable in most forums, but management does not want sarcasm to stifle discussion in the Beginners forum.
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Post deleted by Racha_Rodriguez
 
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Re: [Racha_Rodriguez] Typical skydivers attitude
most of you... PuSsIeS bIg!
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Re: [kellyface272] Typical skydivers attitude
I may be getting the wrong message, but reading this thread has left me, somewhat, with an image of "getting into BASE" as being akin to infiltrating an elitist fraternity, in some instances anyway.

I never pictured it that way. I can see how this would be so, however. I grew up surfing, and if you don't surf you probably aren't aware (well being a basejumper I'm sure you have some inkling) that you can't just buy a surfboard and paddle out into the pack and expect to get waves. Besides the knowledge one must attain, the skills to ride the wave, and the skills needed to even get out there in the first place and stay alive etc. there is a pecking order. Experience and being 'on' a certain spot regularly trump any kind of eagerness. It is easy to gauge some one's experience level by the way the paddle, duck dive, or even sit on their board. People that look like kooks get shouldered and disrespected. When I grew up there was no structured mentoring, no lessons, no classes, no youtube, no internet even. Getting yourself into a dangerous situation was easy with no experience. I was lucky. I know two bodyboarders who were not. The mantra, "If in doubt, don't paddle out," was learnt 'on the job.'

I liked that about surfing. For me it never was a "sport." Structured competition always seemed wrong. To me a surfing competition judge always seemed like a "music" fan walking into a music store and choosing which album he liked best. Sure one surfer can do more "tricks" on a wave than another surfer can on a different wave, but, forgetting the fact that both waves were different, is the better surfer really the one who did more "tricks?" Which album is better?

So my feeling is that this commercialism of surfing has ruined it. It is not a sport. It's not something holiday makers should be taking lessons in so they can float about and get in the way, get themselves into trouble etc. Its something that someone with an adventurous spirit, someone who appreciates the awe and raw power of nature puts themselves at risk striving to achieve. Learning from watching, listening to, asking questions of, and getting snubbed in some cases by the more experienced and also from making your own mistakes and your own victories is what it should be about.

BASE jumping is nothing like surfing, of course. Teaching yourself to BASE jump and learning from your mistakes is probably a statement that would invoke laughter from BASE jumpers. I am not trying to parallel surfing and BASE jumping at all. The connection I am trying to make is in the nature of the two passions. The unregulated, un-regimented, somewhat "no rules" nature of both is what appeals to me.

Skydiving appears to be this way-regulated, regimented. It appears to be based on qualifications, instructors, and to me has a "yachtie" type persona attached to it. It seems like "the X-games," whereas BASE jumping seems like how skateboarding used to be back in the day when kids would just hang out and try crazy stuff, jump fences into schools etc. No cameras, no sponsors, no competition apart from that friendly rivalry that always exists among boys. Again another way off base analogy, but this is only through my eyes. I understand the commitment involved in a BASE jump. There is no coming back.

I have been fascinated with BASE jumping ever since seeing a skier fly off a cliff way back when, when "high five" used to come on TV. I see stories on TV every now and then and await, with shrugged shoulders, the day that that spot in Norway or Angel Falls becomes a commercial zoo like Pipeline or an X-games event. I already see wingsuit competitions. So I cringe to see the "first jump courses."

I understand this is all to save lives. I understand you don't want every Tom, Dick, and Harry showing up at your local spot and "burning" it by jumping to their death, but like I saw some German skydiver say in a documentary I watched the other night the fact that people die doing this is what makes it what it is...

But after rambling for so long, and good for you if you are still reading, the point I was trying to make was the fact that this is so dangerous, and at least for me anyway, the fact that it is not regimented and you don't have to be certified etc. is what makes BASE jumping so appealing. My fear is the elitist mentality mentioned and experienced by Rocha Rodrigez. I hate to think of a bunch of stuck up, holier than thou, elitist jumpers being people I may have to involve in decisions that effect whether I live or die. I understand not wanting to take an inexperienced skydiver under your wing. Like I said with surfing, IMO, they're on their own. Not everyone is like that I know, and no one should feel obliged. But just look at what Rocha Rodrigez achieved. IMO this guy has become a big influence on me.

There was no where else to put intro, so hi Smile
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Re: [Skwidward] Typical skydivers attitude
my experience, after having taken a fjc, was that experienced jumpers are willing to help and teach, as long as you come across as humble and willing to learn / respect. I know of at least one instance where jumpers more experienced than myself talked to a new jumper and just got a bad vibe from that person - overeager, pushy, dangerous, etc. I haven't met a single person in this community who is not willing to share experiences and information.

Everyone in the community got in to BASE one way or another. From the people i've met and from what i've seen, there are few experienced jumpers flat out unwilling to help a newbie just getting in to the sport. However, there is likely a inversely proportionate number of new / potential jumpers who are not willing (or come across as unwilling) to put the time and dedication in to training and learning.

There is no quick way in to BASE. if there were, it'd be just like skydiving. fwiw, i found the ranks of skydiving, and dropzone clicks / politics more difficult to handle than BASE.

For those of you with no connections to the BASE community, coming from someone relatively new to BASE, i'd say the path of least resistance is learn to skydive, enjoy it, meet people along the way, be humble and mellow, take a fjc, find some experienced jumpers in your area, and get in climbing shape.

but maybe im just ratarded
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Re: [Racha_Rodriguez] Typical skydivers attitude
I agree.

many current jumpers wanted to BASE, bad. eventually, they made their first jump. after some close calls, and a dozen or more jumps, they typically start realizing how unprepared they really were. it is a bit of a freak out for some.

many of us have also helped rescue injured jumpers.

after experiencing all that, it is hard for most of us to accept the responsibility for a newbie. it's not elitist, it's a form of minimizing risks, of personal survival.

when someone says it's not fair, they are probably correct.
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Re: [Racha_Rodriguez] Typical skydivers attitude
In reply to:
I don't think anyone jumps there to this day other than a few I took there after finding it...one of witch... never mind.

You mean Leroy? Then you mean " one of which" is dead, because of an overeager approach to a technical jump, with out the assistance of an experienced local.

Thank you, my point exactly.
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Re: [Racha_Rodriguez] Typical skydivers attitude
Alright, I'll get more training. Point made.
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Re: [kellyface272] Typical skydivers attitude
I see it a lot in (skydive) first flight courses for wingsuit flying.

People would rather rush through 200 solo/half assed skydives, to 'get the number' than taking the time to 'aquire the knowledge and skills'.

And quite often, those guys only have half a dozen basejumps at that point, and are more than eager to take a wingsuit off a cliff (mumbling proximity flying) after jumping it from a plane only 5 or 6 times.

Its the MTV generation I guess. Instant gratification.
And when they find out something takes a lot of work, they usually just find someone else who does tell them its okay to do it at that low experience level (be it base, wingsuit flying or otherwise).

Sadly there are a lot of (un)experienced people out there who turn themselves into teachers the moment they have a double dozen jumps, and gladly take these new (low skills) jumpers on a first basejump/wingsuit basejump/otherwise just for the sakes of ego/being cool.

I think for a big part, YouTube and being able to say/show "I DID IT" to the world (wide web) has gotten more important than enjoying the actual road/experience for ones self..
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Re: [mccordia] Typical skydivers attitude
My Father, before passing, referred to the world wide web as the "InterThreat," noting that the ability to access information with little to no oversight was going to poison the children of this generation, referring to myself and my brothers / sisters. He saw the Threat as much in the type of information so easily accessed (porn, subversive political views, etc), as in the ease by which all information is accessed. You want to know how process of parliament in England works? used to have to go to the library and read books. Had to work hard to gain knowledge. Now, there are 6 clicks of separation between parliament and porn.

At any rate, echoing what has been said ad nauseum, the desire to base jump without the will to work for the experience and opportunity is prevalent among new jumpers, likely especially prevalent amongst new jumpers suffering the effects of infection by the "InterThreat." Thanks alot Al Gore.
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Re: [kellyface272] Typical skydivers attitude
I told you that I'd get more trainingWink. Potato bridge was great, it made me actually want to skydive. Funny isn't it... base made me want to skydive. I look forward to progression in both sports! See you out there!
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Re: [kellyface272] Typical skydivers attitude
kellyface272 wrote:
Potato bridge was great, it made me actually want to skydive. Funny isn't it... base made me want to skydive

it actually is fairly common and standard. after enthusiastically charge forward into BASE, many realize they need better preparation.

meeting the "minimum recommendations" won't guarantee enough skill for much beyond bridges.
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Re: [kellyface272] Typical skydivers attitude
kellyface272 wrote:
I told you that I'd get more training Wink. Potato bridge was great, it made me actually want to skydive. Funny isn't it... base made me want to skydive. I look forward to progression in both sports! See you out there!

Glad your trip went well....who did you do your "training" with?
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Re: [WatchYourStep] Typical skydivers attitude
I taught myself everything! No help! you know this WatchYourStep. Wink

And skydiving... I just need to learn tracking. But the 2 second FF followed by 20 second canopy ride was just too little. I need more!!!!!!

Thanks for making me teach myself! Best thing I've ever done!
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Re: [kellyface272] Typical skydivers attitude
kellyface272 wrote:
I taught myself everything! No help! you know this WatchYourStep. Wink

And skydiving... I just need to learn tracking. But the 2 second FF followed by 20 second canopy ride was just too little. I need more!!!!!!

Thanks for making me teach myself! Best thing I've ever done!

We offered you advice, but you didn't want to hear what we had to say, and with only 1 skydive under your belt just too risky for me.

You had an opportunity to say who "trained" you at the bridge but choose to come back with a smart ass answer. Good luck on your journey I hope it isn't a short one....if you are even actually jumping or just full of it.

Have fun be safe don't die and if you do please don't do it on an object I jump.....
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Re: [Racha_Rodriguez] Typical skydivers attitude
I really don't think it's a waste of time at all. It's sound advice.
If people want to learn that way they will. People tell others not to take drugs because they can kill you, people still take drugs. I wouldn't fret, as I won't be jumping in that way.
If people die BASE jumping when they have no previous experience, don't put them on the list. It raises the question, how did they get the gear? Do manufactures sell gear to people who hold no skydiving licence?
max
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Re: [Racha_Rodriguez] Typical skydivers attitude
Sorry for getting this forum off track. I was still pumped from the jump. I'll be more sensitive if I post ever again.
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Re: [WatchYourStep] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
Howzit,

Been jumping for 3yrs (out a plane) and have a keen interest in B.A.S.E. In fact, it was why I started jumping...Canopy skills are way above the norm...
I believe that hand-eye co-ordinated people progress faster than other, richer people who jump to prove they are "not scared" as opposed to the guy who just likes heights and flight and wants to improve....
Naturally, by testing and trying canopy skills, I have been given certain "names"
After reading this thread, I am asking questions to the South African Base community...
I have set myself a 3yr goal...I want to jump and not scared of the "Appie Work" that must be done...
That is why I have given 3yrs....
Use me for that time, but in turn, teach me and show me...
I would prefer to be able to do this until I cant climb to the exit (due to age, not injury) Having said this, I appreciate the points made above, from both sides, I would just prefer to start from the bottom and work my way up....untill I am at the top...saying "3 -2 -1- C-Ya
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Re: [78RATS] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
78RATS wrote:
And those aerials...who can't pull off a triple flip from 400 feet?

CalvinHekcer
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Re: [Racha_Rodriguez] the last thread
Racha_Rodriguez wrote:
the last thread I will be posting in.

i doubt it
you'll be back
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Re: [Racha_Rodriguez] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
i thought it was a good story, personally. Just because you CAN do something one way, dosent mean you SHOULD.
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Re: [those unwiling to stand by their words]
I wish you couldn't delete your posts. Just reread this thread and had a chuckle at all the deleted posts.

Just goes to show who can stand by their word and who can't...
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Re: [avenfoto]
avenfoto wrote:
I wish you couldn't delete your posts. Just reread this thread and had a chuckle at all the deleted posts.

Just goes to show who can stand by their word and who can't...

Sorry, when this thread was began it hit home base pretty hard and I thought maybe my story could make a difference. With some it did, but I got a lot of annoying replies like "hey since you can relate could you train me" it made me realize talking to a brick wall is useless so I deleted all the posts. I actually no longer use this account for it being over run with bad porn advertisements and other such non-sense! I wish I hadn't deleted all the posts but I can't change that.

The gist of it was that i was that jumper that was in a big damn hurry, and instead of listening to people that tried to guide me in the right directions I bought gear and taught myself to jump. For eight months I studied every angle of the sport I could, trained in tracking, accuracy, deployments, all that related to base, bought gear, and started bailing of shit solo. The dangers I put myself in were absolutely terrifying looking back on some of the things I did because I just didn't know better. It also was very hard because I didn't have that hand on my shoulder saying, thats right, go for it from a mentor. Anyway I was just trying to say I've been there, and be patient but it didn't really work out the way I wanted it to. Sorry bout the gay deletions.
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Re: [avenfoto] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
BaseJumping is a REVOLUTION-ary sport, was the first lesson i was taught . i trully can't believe that there are people who forget this and judge other jumpers.
there is a greek-latin quote saying "don't judge if you don't wont to be judged" .
imagine the first basejumpers to whom we owe so much listening to others' judging .
You are always a student in skydiving , You are generally always a student in you LIFE , since you never got a course of "do it yourself : grow up" .
In BaseJumping , it's you , KING of your ride, you should feel like a professional and be very strict to soft emotional moments.

as far my little knowledje is concerned there is not a shortcut in basejumping . it 's another sport . another training-preparation ( brain & body) if everybody who basejumped should have taught first skydiving then every skydiver had first to be taught of Yoga.


PS.there is no comparison of course with motorcycles and jumping , not because i say so , but because it is so !
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my opinion
Every athlete should do Yoga.
It helps performance and lessens
the frequency/severity of injuries.


Motorcycles on the street in densely
populated areas ares more dangerous
than SKY jumping and about equal
to BASE jumping.

However, with BASE you control more
of the variables than a street bike,
where your safety is much more a
byproduct of how much the car driver
next to you is texting than your skill.
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Re: [GreenMachine] my opinion
mentors are hard to come by, at first i didn't understand what i was asking of the people i asked. now i do.

I have two people who are "helping me" but threw text and e-mail.. ive made three jumps and until i can get some hands on help im done.

nothing went wrong, but im not going to wait till something does to get help. so ill keep on my canopy skills and keep looking...
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Re: [avenfoto] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
Recently I did my first BASE jump, Never did any skydiving in the past. I thought about it thaw... I've been thinking about it ever since I was a little kid. Knowing that my dad, mum and uncle use to skydive it has been always in my blood.
My base was awesome something I always wanted to try, my mentor is also my student. As to my knowledge he is one of the best BSAE jumpers in the world and to me he is the best as he is the only best that I know.
11 years ago I got in to Paragliding and today I have my own school and I'm the only Chief Flying Instructor in the country that can teach Acro Paragliding.
My question is: How do you juggle your family, life style and work and yet be the best at thing. Base is the next thing for me but my goal is to do wing suit flight. I know and can understand that I need to do lots of skydiving prior to anything like that can happen, so what are the best options?
Believe me when I say that I am aware of the dangers in this sport as flying acro on a paraglider isn't really the safest also.
So what is taking Short Cuts for me? What do I need to avoid and what do I need to look for?
or is 41 too old to get in to a new sport?
Smile
Cheers
Hollywood
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Re: [HollywoodAcro] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
shortcuts for you are the same as everyone else you took them all. you can start sky jumping and do it right or just keep jumping its up to you.
HollywoodAcro wrote:
Recently I did my first BASE jump, Never did any skydiving in the past. I thought about it thaw... I've been thinking about it ever since I was a little kid. Knowing that my dad, mum and uncle use to skydive it has been always in my blood.
My base was awesome something I always wanted to try, my mentor is also my student. As to my knowledge he is one of the best BSAE jumpers in the world and to me he is the best as he is the only best that I know.
11 years ago I got in to Paragliding and today I have my own school and I'm the only Chief Flying Instructor in the country that can teach Acro Paragliding.
My question is: How do you juggle your family, life style and work and yet be the best at thing. Base is the next thing for me but my goal is to do wing suit flight. I know and can understand that I need to do lots of skydiving prior to anything like that can happen, so what are the best options?
Believe me when I say that I am aware of the dangers in this sport as flying acro on a paraglider isn't really the safest also.
So what is taking Short Cuts for me? What do I need to avoid and what do I need to look for?
or is 41 too old to get in to a new sport?
Smile
Cheers
Hollywood
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Re: [HollywoodAcro] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
[quote "HollywoodAcro 41 too old to get in to a new sport?
Smile
Cheers
Hollywood
As i was reading i was thinking troll troll..this would be a kid, then i read he is 41 heheh,

i expect to hear more about you in the future!!

There aint no shortcuts to base, the best advice anyone will give you is to do it the right way, if that takes some time and money tough,

Good luck on your ride however long or short it will be..
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Re: [MBA-PATTO] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
Thank you, for your advice... I too hope to stay in the sport for a while :-) And if you do hear more of me I hope that it will be all good.
Stay safe...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DeIWPyA_84
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Re: [HollywoodAcro] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
41 is the new 20! Nice acro flying tooSmile You're probably better of for skydiving and base than most beginners. All the knowledge, skills and what not you have from the paragliding will benefit you in some way on your journey.
To all you short-cutters, base jumping is easy. Jump, be stable and pull. There you go, the secret is out. The only problem is it's not that simple... You got things like line twists, pc hesitation, off-heading, line-overs, bad pack jobs, places you need a good track on, unstable wind conditions etc etc.
If you want to start BASE, 1st step would be getting of this forum and to a drop zone. That simple. The smart and dedicated already figured this out and are probably having the time of their life.
And those who for some reason think skydiving aint cool, keep the macho-bullshit in the weight-lifting room in front of the mirror. Spell "soul flyers 2011" in the youtube search thingy, you'll seeCool
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Re: [HollywoodAcro] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
HollywoodAcro wrote:
Base is the next thing for me but my goal is to do wing suit flight.
Believe me when I say that I am aware of the dangers in this sport as flying acro on a paraglider isn't really the safest also.
So what is taking Short Cuts for me? What do I need to avoid and what do I need to look for?
Take your time and don't do like Antoine MOntant. Frown
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Re: [piisfish] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
In reply to:
Take your time and don't do like Antoine MOntant.
Frown
He is a great loss in the Paragliding world... even that I did not know him personally; he was a great acro pilot.
I don't know how much or how little experience he had with BASE, however I understand and know the implications that can happen in this sport. I want to do it the right way, but sometimes we don't know what the right way is and we make mistakes. Great response from all of you out there... Thank you, and I hope that maybe one day we all can jump together as mates...
Hollywood
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Re: [HollywoodAcro] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
the right way is doing it with friends and mentors, not hiding from them (so that they can't stop you from doing stupid shit).
As I understand he had little BASE experience, VERY liitle wingsuit experience, jumped a big suit on a very technical jump.
Yes, he is indeed a great loss for paragliding acro, also for speedriding, mountaineering in general, and for his family. Now he is playing with his brother (who I guess kicked his ass on arrival)
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Re: [HollywoodAcro] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
Me again after some time of the forum. This time around I'm still a rookie but with few hundred jumps up my belt.
Been doing shit load of tracking and 7.5hr tunnel time with another 10 hr in tunnel next week. One thing I am upset about is the politics in skydiving... Why do people always trying to make themselves look better by putting others down? Base and skydiving is such a great sport why fuck it up...
Stay safe all and enjoy each other company, better yet, learn from one-another...
And if you feel like paragliding then contact me :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Bl1p7p7nv0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODxIOFgo-N8

Cheers
Hollywood
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Re: [HollywoodAcro] why are most new jumpers looking for a shortcut?
Post a video of you tracking.