Basejumper.com - archive

I wrote a guide to antenna jumping last night, it was originally for a friend but I think it will be useful to several other people.

I am looking for people to proofread and contribute.

Please PM or post your email address if you would like to help. Experienced jumpers only at this point.

and seriously... I've already heard all the jokes... especially from hecker...

Sorry about that. It's hard for you to not walk into anything. or fly into anything.


but seriously, I'm stoked to read it. post that shit!

Chute it over, I'll read it.

I'd post that, but only in a forum or reading area only accessible to actual jumpers. It's a pretty good basic learn to jump A's guide.

Or it could just be passed around via PM or jumper to jumper the way a lot of other info is disseminated!

or it could go to the super top-secret private forum on that other site.

Have you written the chapter on how to get yourself off the antenna after you get hung up on a wire... I got that one covered if you haven't. Step 1 - make sure your jump buddy knows how to tie knots so you don't have to explain a figure 8 while hanging with your back to the object (which assumes you have a rescue rope, something I know a lot of people don't have in their car/hidden). That rope saved me from arrest and hypothermia.

Which leads into the next chapter... Hecker can help write this one... Getting the canopy down a few hours later. God, that was a cold night. But they are my fondest memories of that no-longer-standing object.

that was a fun night!

set the stage for my later elevator jumping system! (on a tower twice as tall)

Fuckin T-Dog!!
Glad that all worked out for the best! Good work Hecker!

Damn I mis that tower. . .

From what I know of Calvin19, he is at the very top of the list of who I want with me if I am hanging on an object! Crater Nate is also very good with ropes, and we have practiced rescues before.

I wounder how many crews practice antenna rescue, or even have the necessary tools?

I don't believe in tower strikes. . .

What about cliff, building, or bridge strikes?

Haha, more like what about Roland strikes?

IT wasn't a strike . . .thank you very much. . .
It was a precisely calculated, FLAWLESSLY executed, highly advanced manuever that we dubbed the
"Roland-Over".



and that post was a funny directed at Calvin("I don't believe in line-overs")Hecker

I maintain that a line-over is a fault of sloppy, incomplete, or inverted packing. sure, the phenomenon exists, but is not difficult to prevent.

I love how we jacked this thread from andrew.

PS- Karnage, I want to read it!

Haha just pullin yer chain buddy. . .Untill I get one from a nice PJ, I'm gonna have to side with you on that theory!

This was Karnowski's thread. . . ???

OH SNAP!! Yeah that's right something about antenna and guy wires. . .!

Andrew, I'd like a read of it as well!!

Need email addresses for both you fools. I'm might wait to send it until draft two, which should be done sometime tonight.

PM sent but, you know. . .There are messaging systems in place at all of these sites you frequently frequent. ..FaceBook, HERE, Blinc, GayPron.nowski, etc. . ..

Yuri posted one about antennas a long time ago that I've always agreed with.

August 2nd, 2001 over at blinc.

Can't seem to find it, could you possibly link me?

http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/original-base-board/18160-antenna-wind-direction.html

Technically - he was not there until about 4 hours later, and I think I was the one hanging him from the object... It was his hardware (except my climbing harness), but he was technically hanging from a rope attached to me. But you are right, Hecker's rope skills and inventory is an asset! So what if he got the glory job of the canopy rescue, but I already knew what it was like to hang from the wire that night. In my case, I even got to swing from the wire to the object, making it my only BASE cutaway and reserve ride.

I still remember the phone call: "Hecker, so I need your help in the morning. Do you have a big pulley... It's way too cold now, the ice is getting thicker, so I got permission from the landowner to do it at sunrise. (He was at the object by the time we got done with the rescue, so I had a frank conversation with him at that point.)"

Hecker's response was that of a kid who just got the best toy in the world, a 1000 foot tall playground, but one with so much ice we could not look up when doing anything on it... "No, let's do it now"! By the time I made the drive back town to change clothes and pick him up, he had all the parts needed to have a kickbutt rescue system (except a winter jacket, thankfully I had two)

This post is not a hijack. It is serious. Any guide on antenna jumping needs to have sections on self-rescue and hardware required. In my case, I happened to have a rope BY ACCIDENT in my car and a real good friend who was willing to stick around, getting frostbite on his hands due to losing a glove in the stressfull situation, willing to tie knots where I told him to.

I never had a plan prior to the strike. In the first 10 seconds after the strike I made a plan... I wish I had the plan prior, thus the point of my post.

The canopy rescue system Hecker made was very simple and would work to rescue a human too with one additional rope. It takes about $250 in hardware including some rope, pulleys, harnesses and carabiners. The photos he posted should inspire as it shows him hanging from a pulley and myself belaying him and using the ladder of the object to move us/him up and down the wire. Simple.

But - what hardware to tie to on a BASE rig for a resuce, and where??? The pesky cheststrap's hardware is not rated for a lot of weight, especially a dynamic fall onto a rope. Would you tie to that by accident without a plan ahead of time?


I also know of someone who, when climbing a ladder, passed out. He woke up hanging from his cheststrap by a friend who clipped him in immediately prior seeing something was wrong...

Thus, my BASE rig has a webbing and carabiner attached parallel to the cheststrap that I could use in about 20 ways if I needed it. It comes in handy on the Eiger in Switzerland for the rope cross, but it seems like it's a good idea for climbing/jumping an A. In 3 seconds you can clip yourself in should anything happen. So I just leave it there...

I want a copy.

Andrew, I read your guide last night, it was pretty thorough.
I know you have several people reviewing and sending you
updates/corrections/additions, etc. Once you have a firm
document send it back to me and I will proof read the final.

To: TDOG

Have you read the guide? Yes, having some inclusion of
safety items to bring and rescue procedures would be nice,
ooh, and emergency medical equipment, and while we are
at it let's have Andrew write the BASE Bible, ha ha

This is known in project management as 'Scope Creep'.


As for your reference of the un-named guy, who did not
eat, slugged an energy drink, had his boots on super tight,
and passed out while climbing an antenna --- yeah well
there was more than one lesson there, but I did start
bringing a quick-clip link with me.

I also make sure I eat something (even just a banana) and
drink some water prior to a climb. I also tighten my boots
later rather than sooner.

I own a fall arrester but have yet to use it because it is
heavy and after watching someone use one it seemed a
bit cumbersome. Anyone want to buy it? $80 plus shipping.

Instead I made a lighter version for resting or possible object
strike. Attached is my first version, I plan to buy a d-ring
from Paragear on my next order.

Oh and I really think the hip rings and chest strap on my
Gargoyle could handle my 200 pounds in an emergency.

460 should also be at the top of your list. He has mad skillz and doesn't need no heavy stinking rope.

Green,

While I respect your comment on project creep, there is a reason why a skydiving FJC is one hour on how to jump, 6 hours on what to do when things don't go as planned. Parachuting of all types is about managing and fixing risk, not calling 911 when you really don't have time.

Thus, I think this is important project creep. I think a lot of jumpers focus on freefall and canopy emergencies, but not post landing/object strike issues.

You posted a video where you flew between wires last week. What gear did you have for a wire strike with you?

My Standard Equipment:
-serious medical kit
-rope
-saw
-tools
-clean fabric
-gloves

<all the following are entirely personal, NOT official comments.>

I welcome positive efforts to make BASE safer, but there can be limits.

who gets to read it?
it could be bad if it fell into the hands of novices. should experienced jumpers need it?

that said, this seems like it could mutate into a BIM, or BASE Information Manual. without an organizational stamp of approval, I wonder about potential liability. growing the sport means eventually we will see someone turn sue happy and file a lawsuit. (I do NOT welcome or encourage that, and hope it is decades away.)

I still have the first SIM from USPA that I ever bought. It is amazingly thin compared to the beast they publish today. call it mission creep if you like, these things tend to grow and take on a life of their own.

(and yes, I understand different people have written other guides as well. I'm sure Yuri's is available on this site, somewhere.)

this is BASE. do as you feel right. be prepared to be wrong. make your call.
(just offering up another view.)

I'm glad you prefaced that with "personal". . .
Put the final read up for all to see. . .
GOOD information is never bad. What if little johnny gets out of his $1500 FJC and decides he can go all willy nilly and flick that A right after he gets home. . . HE'S GONNA do it. Especially with all this "oh we need to keep thing secret blah blah blah". He's gonna make some calls and find out quick that no one wants to jump with a newbie who only has afew hucks off the Perrine. . .Then he's gonna come here and look for any info he can about jumping other objects. . .

Well guess what we've decided to keep that shit on the DL so newbs can't get to it and "obviously" a more experienced jumper won't benefit from it. . .

Then he's gonna go solo that bitch, jump the wrong direction, open in a line twis and 180 and fly into some shitty situation. . .
all because we need to hide this shit from the sensitive eyes of the HUNDREDS of new jumpers every year. . .

Plus half the time people get onto an A and can't even hold their dick to take a piss because they're so scared, and climb off. . .especially folks who arent used to exposure. . .

edit to add. . .I'm ALWAYS right so, don't even waste time trying to argue. . .

How about a guide on that self rescue situation? I only have basic climbing skills and gear but have access to alot more. id be interested in what you actually used to complete that rescue.

actually, I'm not nearly as concerned about the FJC graduates. I'm more concerned about the folks who want to bypass skydiving! (maybe they will be too lazy to find the Guide?)

you can't give people knowledge. it must be grasped. then there is a ton of information whuffos will not value (or even understand) until they gain a minimum of experience (i.e. practical knowledge). I've read plenty of posts from carefree types who have an incident, and start recommending caution.

you have a point about the fear stopping potential jumpers. some people will freak out and never climb. unfortunately, others will resort to liquid/chemical courage.

but I only have 1 opinion out of many. AK does NOT have to listen... heck Tom may disagree and want to post it in the Articles section!

don't forget a body bag.

BASE 58 used to always shout on exit "There's nothing as final as the green vinyl!"

Wow...memories...hahaha.

 

/hyjack

I needed to get home where I could research then post this so I did not post wrong info. I verified the "as built" name brand harness I own. It's chest strap hardware is a PS70101 (-3 suffix which denotes black). That milspec hardware is proof loaded to 500 pounds, whereas each legstrap hardware is proof loaded to 2500 pounds. Google that number or look it up in the FAA Parachute Rigger's Handbook or the DJ Associate's catalog.

Thus - yes the main lift web is bombproof, but the cheststrap was never designed to take the load of a dynamic fall onto it.


Also the stitching is oriented so it will be strong in the direction a chest strap needs to be - across the chest from nipple to nipple, but weak from nipples to chin. If you take a fall on to it, the force will be perpendicular to it's design load orientation.

Harnesses webbing is sewn with a multipoint W-W stitch pattern that looks like a box with X or Ws inside it. The outside border of the rectangle/square "X" or "W" stitching pattern needs to be parallel to the direction of load so each stitch takes equal force, and especially important, so it does not "peal off".

If force is applied in an alternate angle, say at a 45 degree angle between load and box looking pattern, the single stitch on the opposite corner of the direction of force will take most of the load. It could snap under pressure, then the very next stitch takes the load. It will snap, and eventually the whole seam can open like a zipper (or like a shrivel flap on a velco rig).

If you take a fall with your back to mother earth, then the stitching is in the orientation to peal off, "pop, pop, pop". My harness is built so the chest strap is under the main lift web preventing this, but if the mainlift web rolled for any reason, there is no reinforcement.

Think of it like velco - pull parallel to the fabric - each fiber holds equally and it is strong. Pull perpendicular - it peals right off. Install a shrivel flap and it peals off. A W-W stitch pattern, without any reinforcement tape, is strong in only one orientation.

To combat this problem on the canopy attachment three rings ring, the whole main lift web below the ring is wrapped with a tape perpendicular to the main lift web and the W-W stitch pattern is sewn thru the tape that wraps around the MLW. So, if you open back to earth, the tape takes the force instead of the stitches pealing. If you open feet to earth, the stitches take the force, but all of them do you you have the cumulative strength making it very strong. Thus the main lift web and canopy attachemnt points are designed to take a lot of load in any orientation and would be appropriate tie off points for rescue.

So this rant is basically to say, I disagree with your comment that a chest strap can take your "200 pounds". It does not take a lot of momentum in a dynamic fall onto a rope to double your weight momentarily. I bet 99% of the time you would not break your cheststrap, but wouldn't it suck if you did because you tied off to 500 pound hardware instead of 2500 pound hardware a few inches away? (Have you ever seen bent hardware on a skydiving rig from a slammer opening? I have seen photos - scary)

the first 4 A's i hit were all solo and all done with what i had learned at the perrine, not saying that its the best move but it can be done without getting hurt

agreed. I have load tested and broken my fair share of hardware. never a commercial BASE harness, but I have broken belay loops on climbing harnesses. just hanging from a chest strap is fine for sure, but I would not do a rescue from it.

Do you mind posting a picture? Ive just been rocking 2 carabiners connected by a sling attached to my cheststrap, which I know is good for hanging weight but Id like something better. Are your carabiners sitting just above your chest strap so they cant fall down? You said carabiner singularly, do you just girth hitch above the chest strap and only have a carabiner on the free end?

haha, i first read that as object strike!

No seatbelts were used or harmed in the incident I was reffering to. The original seatbelt rescue happened in either California or Washington. I don't want to mention any names because frankly I'm so exhausted I can't remember who they were.

ok, not to hijack this thread any further, but talk of using your chest strap to tie off begs the question: why not? Why can't manufacturers make chest straps strong enough to handle dynamic shock forces so people CAN safely use them for tie-offs?

+1

How could they do so? Let's generate ideas not criticism...

the material can certainly be made strong enough and sewn enough to handle said forces. I'm thinking that the metal in the chest strap is the weak link, as it is really only designed to handle dynamic forces horizontally. Any gear manufacturers (or anyone for that matter) on here have any clever ideas for making a super-strong adjustable buckle?
Maybe i'm making it harder than it has to be. An additional piece of webbing that you could put on with connectors, running the length of your chest strap, maybe with a loop in the center for connecting ropes or ascenders? Thoughts, anyone?

(edited to add picture)
(Thanks to vid666 for the unauthorized use of his picture!)

 

Wow. 100% agree.

the chest strap will not break under just a hanging load, if any more than that go to the main lift web, or even the big 3 ring, if your canopy is not going to be cut away or it already is of course.


of course, don't hit the tower.

i t-totally agree about the BFL talk. was just suggesting something new in regards to climbing safety. Again, a complete hijack of the thread.

I want a copy please.

I use a pulley system to take the load off my arms when climbing a 2000' A, got the idea from epibase in this thread http://www.basejumper.com/...ring=pulley;#2907373. It is not a safety device and would only slide down the cable if I fell. Most As have a safety cable, so what if you used a pulley setup like the one in the link above with a cam that only allows it to move one way? Here is an example of such a pulley, http://www.rei.com/...amp;mr:referralID=NA It would probably require some modification to make it easy to attach and remove, but I believe it could work and would be a great asset to those that are worried about falling on the climb up.

i know someone will mention this, so i'll do it first. As far as cable grabs go, this is the standard:
http://www.basejumper.com/...s/Detailed/1146.html
No sense in re-inventing the wheel, right?

re: worried about climbing up

I own an OSHA approved fall arrester made for
sliding along the cable on antennas. It has been
used but is in perfect condition. Anyone want it?
You can have it for $80 plus shipping via Paypal.


re: using your harness in a pinch

TDOG, I would never use my Gargoyle harness to
free solo lead rope blah blah, but if I am stuck in
a shitty situation then I am going to use my skills
and the tools on hand to save my ass.

edited for spelling

Tdog. . . I hear what you're saying about the lod directions on the stitching but, what about the the case of articulated chest straps like the photo ThirllSeek posted? It seems that would allow the webbing to rotate to the position intended for load.

ok, just to add another data point.

Tdog is absolutely right about stitching being very particular to load direction.

Perigee series of harnesses, as well as Gargoyles, and some others have tersh loops right at hte point where MLW comes out from the mudflaps. If you so desire, put in some tersh rings, and tie off to them - that would load the MLW, and trust me, if your MLW cannot handle the shock load of you dropping a few feet, you have much bigger pics.

pic attached

what Paul just said reminded me of another point about all this fall protection crap...

don't make any system that will allow you to fall too far. i don't know what the recommended distance is... but i would suggest less than 16inches. reason being, if you fall into a static harness from much more than that, you will likely need to be rescued anyway. and if not in a timely manner, you will go into shock and die very quickly.

that is why tower workers have a decelerator lanyard.

bottom line is you should just climb confidently, have a quick draw or something (if needed) to clip in with for safety while resting, and forget the rest of this crap. you have a parachute on for fuck's sake. it ain't that hard.

+1

Aren't those things loud as hell going up? I'm more worried about getting caught from being too loud banging on the metal than I am about falling while climbing a ladder.

Id at least want a Yates screamer or 2 attached to one of those to avoid static shock. Is that what you mean by deceleration lanyard? Or is it some other sort of via ferratta thing?

cable grabs do tend to be noisy, and heavy... which is why i don't use them. they are designed to be connected to a chest strap though. granted it's designed to be used with a proper harness.

the decel lanyards are like this http://dbi-sala-safety.com/...g/images/1241220.jpg

it basically just peels apart an s-folded brick of webbing to slow the shock. it's also designed to be connected to the center of your back, for a proper even load to your body.

Rock gear is sooooo much nicer than all that osha shit

HERE is a Yates Screamer
These are designed to take most of the shock on marginal rock/ice placements.

http://www.yatesgear.com/climbing/screamer/

Fixed it for ya Ricardo

Exactly!! I wouldn't trust any of those safety cables anyway. I've seen a few that are pretty dilapidated.

It really doesn't need to be particularly complicated. A few years back, my local antenna looked like a jungle gym-- no ladders and not even any pegs. I never had any issues but the key is stay calm and always have 3 solid points of contact to the structure.

In some circumstances, a quick draw can be handy for resting. This sounds like the carryaway static line debate. I'm not really sure about the logic behind complicating simple things but there really is nothing wrong with keeping it nice and simple.