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I had an idea last night after seeing my toggle come off the velcro and was just hanging my the loop and ring! What if we tie a small piece of tiny sewing thread around the bottom of the toggle to the riser, so it takes minimal force to rip it off when we unstow our toggles, but has enough strength to keep our toggle on the riser incase it decides to blow off or come undone from the velcro?

Now i would only think of doing this on jumps with some narly landing areas where blowing a toggle would result in broken bones or injuries for sure!

Why not just replace your Velcro?
or what about having a pin at the bottom of your toggle like some skydiving rigs?

Seems like a pain the arse "tacking" your toggle down. Better option: get your velcro replaced!

Well im not doing any stitching or sewing, im simply wrapping the thread around the toggle and riser twice and then tying a knot, no sewing involved!

Risers are pretty new they have 60 jumps on them!

i wrap painters tape around it. two rotations, never hung up.
i'm not joking.

only if it's worn and i don't bother replcing it.

Dude. . .it's "SEWING not sowing.

Sorry, carry on.

And replace your damn velcro! If that's wearing there's a good chance your tailpocket and any other velcro areas may need attention. . .and ya can't "sow" those

edit to add - congrat's on 1375

I just got a Email saying its SEWING, i fixed it all, sorry never mentioned sewing before in my life...the velcro is fine but bumping it off with your hand might suck! Ill have a rigger check out the velcro!!

Congrats on 1374! Thanks for taking that number i like 1375! haha

I have done this as well, quite a bit, when the velcro was worn. I used masking tape, though, same difference.

What is it in spanish?

it's gnarly... not narly

Dumb. Not the thread idea, that's ok but new, better quality Velcro would be better. Tape or thread does seem like an ok work around.

The idea about only doing that over a gnarly landing area is very short sighted. Sure you're not going to hit that small bridge with the gnarly landing area and canyon sides, but if you jump something else, it's entirely possible to hit it. Then there is the possibility...... use your imagination.

It's not a bad idea. you don't need to justify it by that last sentence.

Catching a bridle on a hand is not good though. I suggest not doing that.

Damn im typing like base75 now!

anyone heard from gerald?


(sorry for thread hijack marco, by the way, my ankle still sucks from thxgiving)

HAHA Damn that sucks to hear, your the 3rd ankle that antenna has nipped!! I dont think anyone has heard from gerald, i got one of his old time buddies here that wants to talk to him!

just buy new risers. it comes with good velcro and you get a new non-worn small loop on the 3ring and the brake setting loop.

Holy shit...... the kid acts like money grows on trees!!!!
Seriously... thanks for the GL time today.

Coser. . .

Look at your picture again. I was rebooting my computer and your picture was still up. At a better glance, I noticed a few things.

Check your rigging.


Check the line continuity. The front riser is twisted. The front rapide link is attached with a half twist, or the outside line is attached to the inside. Either way, it works but it's wrong.

I think you set the brake incorrectly. The toggle shouldn't lift off the riser that way even if the velcro is weak. Look at how bent the nose of the toggle is. I believe the only thing that kept the toggle on the riser was the keeper. I have a lot of jumps on my risers. My toggles never move until I grab them.

Push the slider bumpers all the way to the riser. It keeps the links inline. If the barrel nut is loose, which it shouldn't be, it will help keep it in place.

masking tape, painters tape...it's the same anyways, isn't it?
and why no ok workaround? it has worked around for well over 100 jumps, cause i'm lazy.
heres a little pic what i mean.

Actually checked that right front riser, noticed it a while ago but always forgot to check it, it was twisted 180 degrees. Scary to know ive been jumping it with the lines on a half twist! YIKES!!!

Show me how you stow your toggle, i will take a picture of mine after i open it tonight and i will post it in the AM!

it's even scarier to think that you don't do a 4 line check every time you pack :(
can I have your gear when you go in ?

on the subject of how your toggle looks - I agree with hookitt, something is terribly amiss, and I have my guess, but if you don't mind, please post a picture and/or explanation. I have dealt with most variants of BR/Apex risers (which is what I believe you have), and none allow for such toggle position prematurely if stowed properly (unless, I am wrong, which never happens).

Muchas gracias!

Nah,I said it does seem like an ok work around, not doesn't. That wasn't the problem though. He mis-rigged the brake setting. You can see the white loop was through the cateye on the control line but not the guide ring.

Hey thats actually pretty cool!

misread it, sorry.

Be aware of riser stretch. Tie or tack in the line of force on the pull side of the guide ring, not the other side or else you can induce a premie. Think about it.
take care,
space

OK So just stowed my toggles, i have taken a few pictures and trying to change the size through photobucket. I tried to take a few angles its a 10mm lens so its up close!

I will be uploading more within the next few minutes. So i do White loop through the brake setting i desire, through the guide ring, and then i slide the toggle through the top of the white loop!

Edit to add, the velcro is only peeled to try to get a better shot of the way i stow it, i always pull the slack out of the brake line/white loop by tugging above the toggle after i stow it. And the velcro is always mated.

LRT Line Ring Toggle. That's the correct order and the way it appears to be in your pictures. I'm guessing you made a rigging mistake on that one jump, otherwise you would have blown your toggle keepers out by now. If you are not certain on how to do the most basic rigging and inspection on your rig then you need to find a mentor or at least a rigger to help you. If it is just a matter of getting a little careless, seems the case to me, then you need to view this as a wake up call and tighten up.

justa joke? right ? :)

I did not make a mistake on the toggles, when i pack my rig i check my toggles over 10 times. I have never lost a toggle in almost 100 jumps! IM sure people can vouch for me about my damn toggles i am paranoid about losing one or both, its one of my biggest concerns i always talk about at exit points. But hey MAYBE i did stow it wrong!! But thank god i didnt lose one yet and learn the hard way, thank god i brought it up and learned more through this!

BTW Last night i was out on a jump and a guy lost both toggles! Pounded in hard as hell on a hard packed dirt/rock road and god damn it woke me up!!

Be Safe Out There!!

The picture says you made a mistake, but that is ok we all make mistakes.


I have 105 jumps with zero toggle losses, but big fucking deal. How many people do you think can't make it through 100 jumps without a toggle blow out?

I'm glad you didn't loose your toggle and I hope you never misrig again. I have come close to misrigging a couple times, but caught it before closing it up. It is important that we recognize our mistakes and learn from them.

I agree with you that I really do NOT want a blown toggle. it would suck. the loss of both toggles on a single jump suggests to me that
- there is gear issues,
- there is knowledge issues, or
- the jumper lost one toggle and decided to toss the other for symmetry.
(but I might be missing something... again )

with all that can/does happen on a BASE jump, I'm not sure toggles should be a major issue. think it through, jump modern gear, maintain your gear so it functions as designed, tug on a set brake line as hard as desired when packing, and yes, stay safe.

Greetings. I know you know how to set your brakes, The picture in the first post really does look like it's not set right though.

BTW, If it sounds like I'm cappin on you, It's not supposed to read that way. I simply don't want to hear about you pounding in on the side of that canyon and bouncing down it.

How did the guy lose his toggles? Besides equipment failure, Mis-rigging is almost the only way to have that happen. Rigging in general overlooked far too often when learning to base jump.

If only one released, and he tossed the other one, talk to him about keeping the other toggle. Fly and flare with one riser and one toggle. It's FAR superior than trying to fly and flare on just rear. It's not a high performance canopy so risers only is not the key.

I dont think your cappin on me, i understand what your all saying and trying to help, did a jump with my toggles wrapped with masking tape and when i wanted to get the toggles off they came undone with no issues, i think i will do more jumps like this! If anyone experiences any problems or sees any cons to this please post it, it would be nice to know about it! IM just glad to have made it this far with all the mistakes i made and not be hurt or dead! I learned the easy way with this toggle madness and my front riser being twisted!

The other jumper did make a rigging error we found out after! Feel sorry for him that he found out that way! It only earned him 4 stitches and 3 hours in the hospital!

If anyone would like to see the video of the first jump where my toggle released PM me!

I'd like to see it.

Oops, I'll PM you.

It was miss-rigging, Ive spoke with several very experienced jumpers and they have all came to the same conclusion of miss-rigging , what i was doing was placing the white loop through the ring, then through the cats eye brake setting,then toggle through white loop, then into the riser keeper, scary thing is i jumped it that way 17 times at the perrine about a month ago and never had a problem with it.
but i was only taking 2 seconds at the perrine, taking 4seconds the other night may have finally done the trick to pop them both off on opening..

i was a bit heavy on the rear riser inputs and when i flared im sure i stalled it out and landed pretty hard on my side, cutting my elbow open... ended up with 4 stitches and a lesson learned the next day on how to set the brakes properly.... and to buy some damn Body Armor... even tried to get markovwgti some poison oak medicine while i was getting stitched up, but the doc wasent going for it.....
gonna have to tripple check myself from now on....

that is a common mistake. i've caught a couple newer jumpers doing it that way thinking it was correct.

remember this.. stay aLeRT when stowing toggles.

like mentioned before... Line Ring Toggle... then you can't go wrong.

You can always add a snap.Vertigo used to make toggles that way.You can always turn them into tuck risers.I have been thinking of making a pair for myself with the line over release as well.

Snaps sound like a good idea, and would probably have to be replaced as often as velcro, i may talk to my rigger about this idea... thanks.....