Basejumper.com - archive

I noticed that the BASE fatality list is not being updated and there are details of deaths that have not been filled in for jumpers all the way back to the spring of 2009. I am personally interested in maintaining the list. What's your take on it? I already have NickDG's blessing on it and the current person maintaining it took over the list without asking for permission to do so.

Thank you for offering to handle something
that needs to be done but will take time and
cause you some frustration.

will you please bring back the portion of the list that included BASE jumpers that died outside of the sport?

thank you.

teresa

Agreed, but I think what's more important is that the definition of what makes the "official" list needs to be reviewed. As I see it, the main reason for maintaining the list is to allow us to assess the risks of BASE and learn from past tragedies whenever possible. If someone slips and falls to their death while accessing an exit point, that's a risk we all face, so is very relevant and should be included. The proviso that the jumper must actually have committed to the jump, is just silly.

And also, what is it with BASE jumpers and numbering things? Does the list really need to be numbered? When referring to a fatality, surely a name and/or date is better? (I once pointed out an omission in the list, which of course meant the numbers changed.)

I agree. These are all good points. They list helped keep me alive and hopefully will be a good long term guide.

I maintain my own copy for my FJC reader. If you want, I can email it to you to help fill any gaps in your version (and hopefully yours can fill some of my gaps, too).

There is also no reason why you couldn't post the List to the articles section here, if you were so inclined, which would reduce the effort involved in maintenance and upkeep (and also let any person contribute). Personally, I'd prefer that it have it's own web site, though, rather than being attached to anything else.

+1

There has been an updated BFL going on for the last year and a half..i have been sending the current list all the updates but for some reason maybe because he is busy with his own work and life that he has not gotten around to it...

for people who would like to see an updated it is found here

http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/wiki/Fatality_Statistics


Tom i would be very keen to get a copy of your list buddy ,maybe we could share some other stuff as well..

let me know

it really isn't The List. it is an attempt to statistically breakdown the tragic events. it thus strips the humanity (and controversies) from the subject. no photos. no memories. just numbers.

it even prevents others from drawing their own conclusions since it doesn't even mention a cause of death!
(it does contain a unverifiable summary.)

i myself have worked about 1 and a half years on the list to verify correct dates and names also have found over 98 nationalities that we did not have including adding over 6 photos from there families,i would like to have all fatalities have a photo i beleive they are all people and need to be remembered.

It was sad when i asked for help and no one ever even private messaged me about anything except for 1-2 people .

this is maybe a reason why abbie may have stopped,

the list is still a list it has the name and place of death

I don't see how the linked version will prevent someone from jumping with a block of ice in place of a parachute. It simply does NOT provide information.

Sure, some people will prefer to withhold information. Simple, just add "no further details available."

The recent slip on the ramp in LB was well documented, but not on the stat page. It'd be nice if that slip appeared so people will not forget and take care.

WHY people have died can prevent additional tragedy. The stats ignore this simple fact.

don't know why he stopped but i do appreciate him taking it on.

460 thank you for offering to continue maintaining the list. i imagine this will be an emotional and time consuming task.

i appreciate the statistical and life saving information on the list. but truth be told, after youv'e read it 5 or 6 times to learn, you go back to it to remember your friends.

teresa

"WHY people have died can prevent additional tragedy"

....the exact point of the incidents thread.

the BFL is the tombstone. reason about the incident elsewhere.

or did i misinterpret your post?

what is the incident thread? not every person in the world is net savvy... the point is to tabulate, refine, and hypothesize as the to the fatal accident. this stuff needs to be categorically recorded as lessons from the dead. the living should try to learn from their tragic accidents. i think the base jumpers who've passed on will agree.

Abbie is maintaining the bfl.
It is pretty much up to date with some minor data missing.

http://splatula.com/bfl/

Also this page can be found on blinc:
http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/incidents/

   I'd like to thank Abbie for the work she's put into that list. I think it's very important to have faces and stories behind the people who died, so we can learn viscerally from their last mistake. What I'd like to know is how accurate is the list? It seems to me that people base jumping might have myriad reasons to hide the fact that they died base jumping. Also, approximately how many base jumpers are there in the world, doing how many jumps?

What I'd like to know is how accurate is the list? It seems to me that people base jumping might have myriad reasons to hide the fact that they died base jumping.

Uhh, oops. I meant the surviving family might have reasons to not report it as a base fatality.

Abbie might look and jump like a girl but he is a dude... :-)

The BFL has traditionally served as a summary of all relevant information to prevent additional deaths. It must be a challenging task. Thanks to NickDG for starting it, and Abbie for continuing it. Unfortunately, Abbie has not updated it since Sept. If 460 wants to maintain it, cool.

Most Incident threads quickly turn into "Memorial" threads. Everyone can post their thoughts. People debate the interpretation of events. The community might move toward consensus. Not so on a BFL.

All over this site, so many ask question that were answered by previous posts. They appear to be unable to read entire threads. A brief summary serves several purposes.

As for accuracy, it can't be 100% accurate. How can it when people don't view things the same way? Just look at the nastiness of Leroy's thread...

He's a girl in my opinion...

Abbie wants to keep the BASE Fatality List despite 8 fatalities in 2009 that have no information in them. He thinks he does a fine job. And the list he's maintaining was taken without permission from NickDG and Nick has already given me permission to take it over.

personally, I just want to see it maintained. (I doubt it is a very happy task.)

I also wonder if we have grown beyond "one" list. (Tom seems to maintain one for his own needs.) it's a simple fact that different people interpret things differently.

NickDG stopped when people objected to his method. you question why 8 fatalities lack details on Abbie's version.

NO single version will make everyone happy. thus if we want peace, harmony, and agreement, either we end BASE jumpers love of grumbling, or we accept multiple "truths."

thanks for caring enough to offer to maintain a list!

Not to be a dick, but some people may have a life outside of updating the BASE fatality list. I have thought, recently, of offering Abbie some assistance, after noticing like you that the list isn't up to date. maybe this is something that more than one person should be putting their time into, seeing as it benefits so many of us. There is always the option of having your own list and keeping it up to date yourself (like bodygaurd and Tom A. did), instead of relying on someone else to do it for you (and then bitching when it isn't up to your standard)...

no offense

it might be that many of us have a life outside of maintaining the list. so, is it bitching when there are fatalities that are still in the coming soon category from the winter of 2009? if the list is promptly updated, i will subside...

seeing as how it is still the "winter of '09" i would say yes.

I've noticed another omission. Lauterbrunnen 4 June 2009. I didn't know the jumper, but I arrived in the Valley the following day, and I know the guy who was jumping with him, so it's a fatality that's stuck in my mind. I don't know if Abbie reads this forum, but I've emailed anyway.

I think he means the winter of '08/'09.

"if the list is promptly updated, I will subside."

I understand your frustration, but I realize that there is little I should be saying about maintaining (or the lack thereof) something that I haven't lifted a finger to help. As I said, maybe you need your own list, then you wouldn't have this problem.

Word.

If you really want to know what is going on you can read through the "Incidents" forum, it generally speculates each fatality to death (no pun intended)

-or-

just personally contact someone with the information you desire.

What? You don't know anybody even remotely related to the incident that you can contact? Tough shit then, suck it up and keep quiet until those that do feel like sharing.

The BFL is a privilege, not a right.

no, but the rest of us would. should i make my own list as well?

i think there should only be one published List that is updated in a timely manner. if everyone starts their own list, at some point there will undoubtably be several floating around the internet.

not diggin that.

why can't you both do it?

To answer your question, yes, you should make your own. Again you are relying on someone else to do it for you. Did someone show you every exit point you ever jumped? BASE is personal, and if you continue to rely on everyone else to "do it for you" you aren't going to get very far. I was in LB last August and missed my meeting with some friends to go up to Le Mousse, as I didn't know the way. A well known and long time jumper (that happened to be at the meeting place at that time) made a good point. He said I needed to quit relying on other people, otherwise I wasn't going to accomplish much (as far as jumping that week was concerned), and then was kind enough to show me the way to the exit. The point is, if you want something done right, 9 times out of 10 you are going to have to do it yourself. I know everyone wants to have a nice, neat, updated "list", but it doesn't sound like too many people are also willing to help out with it. Your last line says it all, "why can't you both do it?" I ask you this, why can't you?

i'm a little confused. what does getting to the exit point have to do with WHO maintains the BASE fatality list?

Little Stranger comes up with a pretty good point. You really don't want to have multiple lists with different incidents and/or causes listed on the internet. There really should be one or two which have the salient points and maybe a bit of interpretation, so people don't find the wrong one and go out missing a bunch of information....

yeah, let's all maintain our own individual lists, like thoughts that are maintained like lists or myths in our heads, but the list is of primary importance for beginners, who don't have the wherewithall to make their own list. shit, why is there any controversy about maintaining a fucking obituary when no one would step up to the plate other than Nick Rugai a while back, and now the so-called privelege of maintaining it is... this reminds me of my chihuahua, who would eat even styrofoam if it seemed like someone wanted it. if i do this, the domain name will be something like

http://www.base460hasagargagutuancockofbiblicalproportions.gov

actually, most likely, without the .gov domain name.

looks like the list has had some updates guys...

You obviously missed the point of my post...

http://basefatalitylist.com/

Makes it easier to find.

I wish Nick would take it over again But after all the crap he got after JH I doubt it

it would be a hell of a lot easier to keep updated if people would simply stop dying.

Abbie updated the list with first hand information:
http://splatula.com/bfl/

Thanks Abbie for your this voluntary work! It's not a nice job, but someone has to do it!