Basejumper.com - archive

BASE Technical

mvaugeri
Shortcut
Base jumping database
Hi,

I'm new to this forum and I would like to know if there is a base jumping database, that is, a database that lists the latitude/longitude coordinates and elevations for the world's most popular base jumping sites. I've searched online for such information and have not been able to find anything. A few spots I'm particularly interested are the following:

Katthammaren Wall - Norway
Troll Wall (Trollveggen) - Norway
Preikestolen/Prekestolen - Norway

I've read that base jumping was banned at the Troll Wall in 1986, but I'm still interested in where the jump site was located. I can find the general location of these sites on such map sites as Google Maps, but I'm looking for more specific information. Does such information exist? If not, can anyone provide the information for the sites I'm looking for?

Thanks,

Mike Augeri
wwarped
Shortcut
Re: [mvaugeri] Base jumping database
why do you want to know all these coordinates?
DarkSideDan
Shortcut
Re: [mvaugeri] Base jumping database
The NPS maintains this database as well as a data base of every known base jumper in the world
PikeyBASE
Shortcut
Re: [DarkSideDan] Base jumping database
I hold a database on your mum and have her GPS coordinates at all times.
DarkSideDan
Shortcut
Re: [PikeyBASE] Base jumping database
whatever.... let her go or i will call border patrol on your ass!
PikeyBASE
Shortcut
Re: [DarkSideDan] Base jumping database
Call border control on my arse. They can come dig me out of your mums bucket where i'll be hauled up with enough fat reserves to last me the winter.
DarkSideDan
Shortcut
Re: [PikeyBASE] Base jumping database
i always knew you after the fatties you damn pikey..... that place hasnt ever been the same since i left it.... dont forget to bring some hops as there is plenty of yeast up there to last you all winter
mvaugeri
Shortcut
Re: [wwarped] Base jumping database
I'm just curious. I've seen some great videos of base jumps from Katthamarren and Preikestolen and wanted to know where they done - not just an approximation, but exactly. I'm persnickety.
mvaugeri
Shortcut
Re: [DarkSideDan] Base jumping database
NPS? Do you mean the National Park Service? I'm quite sure they wouldn't have any information about Katthamarren and Preikestolen.
RayLosli
Shortcut
Re: [mvaugeri] Base jumping database

.
bodyguard
Shortcut
Re: [mvaugeri] Base jumping database
mvaugeri wrote:
Hi,

. A few spots I'm particularly interested are the following:

Katthammaren Wall - Norway
Troll Wall (Trollveggen) - Norway
Preikestolen/Prekestolen - Norway



Thanks,

Mike Augeri

Yeah buddy if you get as far as kjerag then ya gone to far turn around and head north west sooner or later ya come across some big walls...

Good luck
wwarped
Shortcut
Re: [mvaugeri] Base jumping database
oy vey...

I guess you don't realize we have a policy here of NOT openly discussing places we jump. there are a few exceptions, but even then the info will only let you plan a trip. it will be difficult to plan a hike to the specific jump point.

it helps because...
- many jump locations are less than legal
- it encourages visitors to "contact the locals" for the latest information
- it helps prevent ugly statistics from unprepared "jumpers." the sort of folk who have never jumped a parachute...

ps...
those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure other people can point out additional benefits.
460
Shortcut
Re: [wwarped] Base jumping database
I'm persnickety too. I also need your social security number and bank account number and bank routing number.
epibase
Shortcut
Post deleted by epibase
 
460
Shortcut
Re: [epibase] Base jumping database
I know. I'm from Paraguay and you are from Maine, Mexico.
mvaugeri
Shortcut
Re: [wwarped] Base jumping database
Thanks, based on your response I can understand why the exact locations aren't made public.

Just a general comment, not directed at you (wwarped), but some of the others: Based on some of the other replies it's apparent that there is no minimum intelligence required to be a member of this forum. It's too bad a few pin-heads have to muddy the discussion.

Mike
wwarped
Shortcut
Re: [mvaugeri] Base jumping database
mvaugeri wrote:
Just a general comment, not directed at you (wwarped), but some of the others: Based on some of the other replies it's apparent that there is no minimum intelligence required to be a member of this forum. It's too bad a few pin-heads have to muddy the discussion.

actually, I disagree.
both your original post and this one demonstrate your ignorance and your presumption.

people have worked hard to develop the "database" of BASE. the knowledge may be about sites, gear, techniques, etc. some have died doing so. others have been seriously injured and are reminded daily of that fact.

people have literally (in some cases) paid the price in blood.

so, why do you deserve to know?
what effort have you made?
many activities have a language that can only be properly understood after experiencing things. what are your experiences? will you be able to understand?

will sharing information with you make or hinder future jumping activities?

you have provided no information in any of that regard, thus you have shown no respect to this community. why should the community show you respect in response?

i.e. why would you presume your question would warrant a serious reply?

I tried to help you by initially asking you WHY you wanted to know. evidently you have yet to provide a satisfactory answer.

(Ray's response was cryptic to you, but spot on.)
mvaugeri
Shortcut
Re: [wwarped] Base jumping database
 
I respect thoughtful dialogue, such as yours. But comments like those from DarkSidedan, PikeyBASE, 460 and epibase don't contribute much knowledge to the topic.

As for my reason for wanting to know, I thought I had answered the question sufficiently, but I guess I hadn't. Bottom line is I'm just curious. I started looking for these locations after I had seen some of the videos from these jump sites. I went to Google Maps and others and found the general locations of the sites. For example, the approximate locations of these sites are:

<sorry, we're not doing that here ~TA>

On Google Maps they have terrain maps showing the elevation gradients and I tried matching the observed elevations in the above areas with the published numbers of the jump sites. For example, Katthammaren is reported to be about 1300 meters and Preikestolen is about 600 meters. On Wikipedia they say the “Troll Wall is the tallest vertical rock face in Europe, 1100 meters from the base to the summit at its tallest.” However, the Katthammaren Wall is 1300 meters, so I think the Wiki statement about the Troll Wall must be out of date or just wrong. Google Maps terrain information shows elevations as high as 1500-1600 meters in the area of the Troll Wall. So naturally, I wanted to know how high the jump site was.

The video from the movie "Adrenaline Rush: The Science of Risk" is great (see http://www.tubewatcher.tv/198). This was supposed to have been shot at Katthammaren. In the video they talk about a potential record 28 second freefall. This got me interested in how you determine how long it takes a typical skydiver to fall a certain distance. This led me to the so-called "rockdrop" method (see http://www.offheading.com/tabels.html). There it says it takes about 28 seconds to fall 1300 meters, whereas if you ignore air resistance you'd fall about 3800 meters in the same length of time. Now I'm trying to find the drag coefficient and projected area of a typical skydiver so I can verify by calculation the values given in the above referenced table.

The point is I'm a curious person and I like to learn things. I'll never be a base-jumper - I'm 68 years old - but I admire the people who do the jumping. As for my contribution to this forum, maybe I don’t have anything to offer, but I came here expecting to find people that would have knowledge of the subject, not jerks that don’t have anything better to offer than “he's probably not socially secure”.

Mike
460
Shortcut
Re: [mvaugeri] Base jumping database
Welcome to the forum...

Essentially no BASE jumpers will give out too much info on the internet. Most non-European BASE jumpers are making illegal jumps and will not divulge any information.

Many BASE sites around the world, including Europe, are always on the verge of being shut down, hence the culture of secrecy and self policing.

You will find it hard to break into the scene particularly regarding any specifics of objects) as a non-jumper.

The most information I've gotten about cliffs are from rock climbers.

BASE 460
434
Shortcut
Re: [mvaugeri] Base jumping database
I feel ashamed for how the forum acts.

welcome to the forum.

Paul
PikeyBASE
Shortcut
Re: [mvaugeri] Base jumping database
mvaugeri wrote:
I respect thoughtful dialogue, such as yours. But comments like those from DarkSidedan, PikeyBASE, 460 and epibase don't contribute much knowledge to the topic.

As for my reason for wanting to know, I thought I had answered the question sufficiently, but I guess I hadn't. Bottom line is I'm just curious. I started looking for these locations after I had seen some of the videos from these jump sites. I went to Google Maps and others and found the general locations of the sites. For example, the approximate locations of these sites are:

<sorry, we're not doing that here ~TA>

On Google Maps they have terrain maps showing the elevation gradients and I tried matching the observed elevations in the above areas with the published numbers of the jump sites. For example, Katthammaren is reported to be about 1300 meters and Preikestolen is about 600 meters. On Wikipedia they say the “Troll Wall is the tallest vertical rock face in Europe, 1100 meters from the base to the summit at its tallest.” However, the Katthammaren Wall is 1300 meters, so I think the Wiki statement about the Troll Wall must be out of date or just wrong. Google Maps terrain information shows elevations as high as 1500-1600 meters in the area of the Troll Wall. So naturally, I wanted to know how high the jump site was.

The video from the movie "Adrenaline Rush: The Science of Risk" is great (see http://www.tubewatcher.tv/198). This was supposed to have been shot at Katthammaren. In the video they talk about a potential record 28 second freefall. This got me interested in how you determine how long it takes a typical skydiver to fall a certain distance. This led me to the so-called "rockdrop" method (see http://www.offheading.com/tabels.html). There it says it takes about 28 seconds to fall 1300 meters, whereas if you ignore air resistance you'd fall about 3800 meters in the same length of time. Now I'm trying to find the drag coefficient and projected area of a typical skydiver so I can verify by calculation the values given in the above referenced table.

The point is I'm a curious person and I like to learn things. I'll never be a base-jumper - I'm 68 years old - but I admire the people who do the jumping. As for my contribution to this forum, maybe I don’t have anything to offer, but I came here expecting to find people that would have knowledge of the subject, not jerks that don’t have anything better to offer than “he's probably not socially secure”.

Mike

Seems so simple when on paper.

A fall from 2000ft will take approximately 15 seconds if i am to pull my rip cord and open the tarp at 500ft. This of course does not take into account that im tracking like a banshee and decided to wear a skirt today... i wonder how much drag im creating and what formula will help.

I've been doing it all wrong and opening when the ground gets big!

Edit to Add: Thats some nice research so far though. Excuse our earlier posts. Its usually annoying people who come on with "i have no experience, i want to BASE jump, where can i do it"
HaydnH
Shortcut
Re: [mvaugeri] Base jumping database
There's a nice list including GPS coords, height, maps, FF/flight/hike times, recommended PC size etc for Kjerag here:http://basekjerag.com/...06935A0?OpenDocument.

However, I'm still lurking/learning and haven't even jumped yet so I can't decide whether having that info available is safer in terms of making sure people know the exits or less-safe in terms of not encouraging people to ask locals... I'm probably not even qualified to have an opinion tbh! ;P
GreenMachine
Shortcut
Re: [mvaugeri] Jumping - where science & art dance
Mike-

Since you have added that you are 68, not a jumper,
and really do not have interest in doing so some of us
will be a little understanding... of course they are still
just words typed by someone we do not know.

There are many charts with suggested delays for different
jumping heights, which will be affected the landing area
cause sketchy landing areas typically require a little more
altitude/time to set up than a huge open grass field, type
of gear being used, experience, safety margin, etc.

Not to mention what you are wearing, non-porous clothing
provides for more wind resistance hence more drag and
better glide if tracking... oh and tracking is when a jumper
straightens their body to create forward movement, and
on a skydive a jumper can arch their body to fall faster.

Since you are going at this from the theoretical approach
you could also factor in field elevation, air density,
temperature, etc.

Many of the best jumpers in the world could not do the
math but can do the feat, most of us are in the middle.

~Tom
goking
Shortcut
Re: [mvaugeri] Base jumping database
mvaugeri wrote:
On Google Maps they have terrain maps showing the elevation gradients and I tried matching the observed elevations in the above areas with the published numbers of the jump sites.

Google Maps can be horrendously inaccurate and misleading for this kind of analysis. Even contour maps that you'd expect to be accurate, are often hopeless when looking for the heights of cliffs in remote areas. Trust me on this - I've spend a lot of time pouring over maps and aerial photographs.

In reply to:
The video from the movie "Adrenaline Rush: The Science of Risk" is great (see http://www.tubewatcher.tv/198). This was supposed to have been shot at Katthammaren. In the video they talk about a potential record 28 second freefall.

My personal best "freefall" (actually a wingsuit flight) on a BASE jump is 86 seconds. Total elevation from exit to landing of 1763 m. There will be others on this forum with considerably longer and higher flights.

In reply to:
This got me interested in how you determine how long it takes a typical skydiver to fall a certain distance.

In full flight my descent velocity is about 20 m/s.

In reply to:
Now I'm trying to find the drag coefficient and projected area of a typical skydiver so I can verify by calculation the values given in the above referenced table.

I'm guessing you have a scientific or engineering background. If you're interested, I could send you a copy of my paper on wingsuit flight. That has plenty of mathematics calculations for you to verify.

In reply to:
The point is I'm a curious person and I like to learn things.

Nothing wrong with that!
nicrussell
Shortcut
Re: [GreenMachine] Jumping - where science & art dance
GreenMachine wrote:
Many of the best jumpers in the world could not do the
math but can do the feat, most of us are in the middle.

~Tom

I would also gather that most mathematicians couldn't do what we do. Hell we barely do it sometimes.
wwarped
Shortcut
Re: [mvaugeri] Base jumping database
mvaugeri wrote:
Now I'm trying to find the drag coefficient and projected area of a typical skydiver so I can verify by calculation the values given in the above referenced table.

FYI...
your original post, with the comment, "I'm just curious..." doesn't work well. it is just as popular as "how much diesel should I mix in with xx amount of fertilizer? I'm just curious." Tongue

as far as contributing to the forums...
I think you've had a change of heart from some whose posts seemed less-than-helpful. I think that comes from better understanding where you are coming from. some actually question if I add value, so that is not a sticking point. (many jumpers' egos would love more attention as well. Tongue)

standard Bernoulli...
W = Cd * 0.5 * ro * V^2 * S

so to calculate the Cd (drag coefficient), you must get a handle on:
W = weight and can be controlled
ro = air density and is not easily measured or calculated. it thus introduces error.
V = velocity. for most BASE objects, this varies as well. a comparatively few sites actually let jumpers accelerate fully to terminal velocity.
S = surface area. as jumper's change their body shape, this will change as well.

FYI, a Norwegian group has actually done certain tests in wind tunnels. I think they've aimed to optimize a specific configuration.

for most, it seems pointless to calculate much. reality remains much more critical than theory.
1969912
Shortcut
Re: [434] Base jumping database
434 wrote:
I feel ashamed for how the forum acts.

welcome to the forum.

Paul

Smile
johenrik
Shortcut
Re: [mvaugeri] Base jumping database
In reply to:
On Wikipedia they say the “Troll Wall is the tallest vertical rock face in Europe, 1100 meters from the base to the summit at its tallest.” However, the Katthammaren Wall is 1300 meters, so I think the Wiki statement about the Troll Wall must be out of date or just wrong.

No, it's not out of date. The mountains haven't changed that in the time that passed since Wikipedia was invented Tongue
Troll Wall have the highest vertical drop, but that doesn't mean it's the highest jumpable mountain. Some places on the top of Troll Wall you can drop a rock and it won't hit anything for 20 seconds (this is what 1100 meters are referring to). On Katthammaren it's not that long of a rock drop, but on both mountains we fly our bodies past ledges and gains more altitude.

BTW: Prekestolen is not a popular jumping site though. Mainly because of shitty landing areas (only landing in water). The videos you have seen is probably from Kjerag a bit further in the same fjord.
mvaugeri
Shortcut
Re: [goking] Base jumping database
First of all, I'd like to apologize for my previous disparaging remarks. I reacted to what I saw as unwarranted hostility. The tone has definitely moderated.

In reply to:
I'm guessing you have a scientific or engineering background.

You are correct - I have a degree in Electrical Engineering (UCONN - 1970) and have spent almost 40 years working in the computer industry. I'm retired, but maintain an interest in many subjects including physics, mathematics and geography.

Mike
TomAiello
Shortcut
Re: [mvaugeri] Base jumping database
Mike,

Please have a look over this thread.

Thanks!
TVPB
Shortcut
Re: [mvaugeri] Base jumping database
sorry wwarped - he seems so sincere:

http://maps.google.com.au/...osi,+Bolivia&z=9

p.s.mvaugeri - careful on the IQ insults. There are Mensans here having a chuckle at you! Moir included! Tongue
Your question, although harmless and probably with no malice of bad intent, is like asking a father to have a perve at his naked daughter!!!

There are cultures, and there are societies. Each have established rules. To get in, you have to respect them. This is the reality if life, whether you like it or not!

Get into BASE jumping, and you will get to those sites, just like many of us spent YEARS doing.
wittrup
Shortcut
Re: [goking] Base jumping database
goking wrote:

Google Maps can be horrendously inaccurate and misleading for this kind of analysis. Even contour maps that you'd expect to be accurate, are often hopeless when looking for the heights of cliffs in remote areas. Trust me on this - I've spend a lot of time pouring over maps and aerial photographs.
That is why Finn Kart and Norge i bilder exists.
Giving you pictures like this:
katthammaren.jpg
blitzkrieg
Shortcut
Re: [wittrup] Base jumping database
I hope your off heading reaction time is a little faster than your post reply time! Tongue