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What is the longest wingspan ever used for repeated wingsuit jumps?

What is the longest wingspan members believe is currently in serious development with plans to be used in late 2010?

Is anyone aware of experiments with exoskelton extensions that are longer than arm length? If so please provide a link with further details.

I could gut a swift hang glider with arm slots turning it into something I wore, jump off a cliff, and land it. but would I have landed a wingsuit?







edit: to change the i to an I, because there are some of you cunts out there that give yourself a tuna wedgie for such monstrously offensive bad grammar.

The wingspan of the tallest dude who flies wingsuits, probably me


Mine, if I order a new custom-fit suit by then


Sure! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hang_gliding

I specifically excluded hang gliders by specifying "wingsuit" not wing! It is my belief that independent wings are implied by the word wingsuit. But of course the future use of that word may include single wing contraptions.

Please try to provide answers to my questions considering that I am only interested in the use of independent wings. That would include two bat styled wings (along with a unicycle ;-) ) or possibly even 4 butterfly-like wings involving human legs as well. I believe some wingsuits are using battens to increase stiffness and maintain a aerodynamic camber -- I am wondering if there have been any attempts to extend a wingsuit beyond arm length to increase lift and perhaps allow a pitchup landing.

dk
The one and only batwinged unicyclist!

I don't see why this can't be jumped:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5hOS5viYUw

To elaborate (honestly):

The issue there is that human arms can only take so much pressure. Flying a modern suit at full flight for 1-3 minutes at a time can already be pretty taxing. Adding more wing, even farther from the hinge (your shoulder), would increase the force on your arms significantly more than adding more wing between the arm and the body.

If you were to extend the wings past the arms very much at all, you'd have to find a way to support it. Using a single frame for both wings would do the trick, but by then you'd sacrifice much of the agility and freedom that a wingsuit provides, to the point where you'd just be flying a funky hang glider.

...Unless you've already found a better way to do it, and were just baiting a response like mine so you can place my foot in my mouth with a well-timed link to your new badass suit on YouTube

second. out with it.

Sorry, but the "out with it" will not happen until end of 2010 at the earliest. I haven't even began building my wings and am only seeking current knowledge. I respect the difficulty mentioned concerning air force on human arms and without any real experience am assuming that a majority of that is due to direct pressure from falling rather than aerodynamic lift created by forward motion. I feel with the right amount of camber and twist wings will be less taxing. While I don't currently have a working design, I think it is conceivable an exoskeleton can be designed to help relieve pressure on each arm independently without locking the two together in hang glider fashion.

Is anyone aware of any actual attempts to extend wingsuit span beyond arm length?

Do all readers of this post feel past experience and theoretical knowledge provide enough mental pressure to avoid any future attempts by sentient humans?

I dunno...we got 'Tall Guy' in the UK.
His Prodigy arm wing looks pretty damn big when he opens his arms out !
He'll block out the sun when he starts flying a Vampire !

Lift is defined as the sum of the aerodynamic forces applied upward and perpendicular to the direction of flight. So I'm not sure why you're trying to make a distinction between "direct pressure from falling" and "aerodynamic" lift.

As to your original question, there are photographs of all sorts of large wingspan "wingsuits" in Michael Abrams 2006 book "Birdmen, Batmen, and Skyflyers". But these required cumbersome (and dangerous) rigid components to support them.

To: goking

Right on!

To: Dark_Knight

Blah x3

To: Ghetto

ha ha

http://www.basejumper.com/...s%26quot%3B;#2900690

goking,

Yes lift is defined as you indicate. Lift can be generated by a flat plate with an appropriate angle of attack, but is inefficient with high drag. The wingsuits I've seen appear to have a point of maximum thickness that is further back from the leading edge than on more efficient air foils with less drag.

Large cumbersome rigid components used in the past were not made using advanced light weight materials such as carbon fiber.

I don't seem to have any support on this forum towards attempting to use a longer wingspan with stiffer materials and thinner airfoil shapes similar to those that have evolved over time in nature; but will continue on my quest.

Agreed, which is why manufacturers like Phoenix-Fly have gone to great lengths to optimize the airfoil profile of the wings on their suits.


Since you're not quoting actual airfoil parameters, I can't really comment. But I can refer you back to my previous statement about wingsuit manufacturers having considered this sort of thing before.


True, although it is rigidity that's the problem, not weight. If you have any part of the wingsuit that could restrict the wearer's movement in any way, then this is bad for at least two reasons. Wingsuit flyers want to experience flight as a bird does (well, I know I do, and I'm sure others would agree), so any restriction on movement will compromise the flying experience. Don't underestimate the importance of this. Second, if the restriction prevents (or causes a delay) in getting your pilot chute out, it will compromise the survivability of the flying experience. Don't underestimate the importance of this either.


Don't take the apparent lack of interest personally. We're a cynical bunch, but we mean well. Good luck on your quest!

It really doesn't matter how the force is generated, you seem determined to increase the lever arm. As Ghetto stated, the torque generated might try to rip an arm off.

To overcome the torque, you can add a rigid structure. But that can interfere with the parachute, the arms, and other things critical to survival. It can also become a nightmare to hike in for a jump.

And for the record, thick, fat airfoils can be very efficient. (That trait is called "camber.") Choosing the right airfoil can depend on many things, including the appropriate speed regime.

If you don't feel like you're receiving a ton of support, maybe we lack the vision to see where you are going...

i found this to be very interesting... more lift, less drag, by changing the leading edge to that of a whale's fin.

http://www.rexresearch.com/whalewing/whalewing.htm


I predict this will be the wave of the future for canopies if the unusual front leading edge can be safely implemented.

We'll be flying whale suits?

Remain silent or look like a fool?

Open your minds and remove all doubt:

My long term plan is to prove landing with independently controlled wings is possible while riding a unicycle. There will be no need to pack a parachute on my back. I will not bounce and skip like a stone hitting water at a low angle - a serious issue for Jeb Corliss' plan to land on a slide in Vegas. I seek only to obtain a brief lift off riding down a steep hill followed by a smooth one wheeled landing. I hope to do so at a speed somewhere between 30 mph and 70 mph using two wings extended several inches (or maybe even feet) beyond arm length tipped with heat resistant ceramic just in case I lose my balance requiring a 3 point landing.

I'm pretty sure Wiley e coyote already pulled that one off, didn't work out so good for him either...

Looks like unicoyote is doing just fine!

http://s68.photobucket.com/...urrent=unicoyote.jpg

I trust it can be done. But I have a problem with your speeds.

Unicycle speeds are slow. not 30 and for sure not 70mph.

Efficiency of lift is more a function of wingspan than area, you have that going for you.

actually, I can't keep this serious, REALLY?

Properly designed wings should increase balance allowing a future winged unicyclist to match or even exceed downhill bicycle speeds > 120mph -- at 58 I'm too old to go that fast!

Keep in mind you are showing a pic. of Mr. Whylee Coyote at the exit point jumping. (see cliff edge in background of photo)

Everyone looks good at the exit.

It's the landing you Artard that matters!!

We all know how it ended. Don't forget to bring a Spatula to clean up your mess.

That's look totally flyable, you are right!
And it look great as well.
I like the video!

Well, as most of people said, to use anything rigid, is just reinvanting hang glider!

here is some extreme unicycling!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uPznTbus3g

My plan is for independent wings that if I had substantial funding would imitate bats and result in far less restriction than your best designed wingsuits which seem to be approaching the membrane of a flying squirel extending from wrist to ankle (but most are still simply an extension from wrist to waist). Wingsuits are designed for gliding not high maneuverability through flapping and the unexplored world of human created vorticies. I may start with small fans in each hand to improve my balance at higher speeds - borrowing from Jultagi tight rope acts http://www.prkorea.com/...546&recat=49. But eventually I hope to get a few feet off the ground by stretching and twisting my arms/wings into the apparent wind and slow down or land with a few forward flapping motions. Again if I could afford the best exoskeleton technology I would mechanically extend my fingers in such a way as to control camber like our mammalian bat relatives.

Please note that I do not intend to achieve human powered flight but simply a controlled lift off and landing while riding a unicycle downhill using independent wings that are less restrictive than a wingsuit and have no resemblence to a hang glider. While above photo of Wylie E Coyote does not accurately depict my planned wings; I did graduate from Wylie E Groves High School 40 years ago!

unicycle enema anyone?

what your describing is a hang glider mounted on your arms.

a unicycle rider stands upright, making an obscene amount of drag.

what you are describing has far more in common with hang gliding than with wingsuiting.

WRONG!!

Hang gliders and wingsuits glide without any serious flapping! I plan to flap, clap, fling and flutter. I would certainly flop if I stood upright at high speed and thus am developing both forward and backward unicycle leaning skills expecting a forward lean to be more natural but am still open minded to either method.

Hang gliding and current day wingsuiting have much more in common than my pixie dust visions of flying like Tink.

actually, it sounds like you are describing an ornithopter.

have fun.

sounds like you could win a Redbull event with your idea...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/..._bull_flugtag_26.jpg

I only mock because i don't understand. Oh and cause it's funny!

flapping? with human muscles? Your either an amazingly ignorant moron or the next Otto Lilienthal, I wish you well in your quest.

please take video of inaugural "flight"

hahaha, it seams to have a bit of a peripheral vision problem, but other than that i think its a solid wingsuit!

Moron - hopefully lunatic more accurately describes my intentions. Lunacy as defined by Webster:
wild foolishness, extravagant folly

On lunatic fringe there are no hardfast rules restricting freedom of thought.

Inaugural flight:
My intent is to fall gracefully; not to fly. When riding at high speed downhill I do not associate "liftoff" with any upward movement but simply a slowed fall resulting in unicycle wheel being a few feet off the ground. I will only video tape my efforts when I reach a point beyond what the majority thinks is possible (how many feet off the ground might that require?).

I have searched and failed to find any recent attempts using one's muscles to flap wings slowing a fall enough to land without dangling like a puppet from parachute strings. History does provide some nonflapping success stories http://wings.avkids.com/...nced/jumpers-01.html :
The first man to "fly", the Chinese Emperor, Shin jumped from a tower using two large hats. He was very happy to land safely.
...
For hundreds of years many other people tried flight by jumping. In 852 A.D. Armen Firman jumped from a tower in Spain wearing a huge cloak. He hoped the cloak would billow out and help him float to the ground gently. He was fortunate he made it.

Does anyone else wish to join me on the lunatic fringe and express a positive attitude towards human muscled wings enabling graceful landings when jumping from 20-40 feet. Please provide youtube links to any such attempts (excluding those frantically pumping an umbrella).

Ok, so I gather your goal is not flight but some form art/'falling with style', making the attempt at records or any hint of efficiency moot. Fair enough.

I think your missing the problem with speed here. lets assume that you make wings that have half the aspect ratio of a normal bat
http://www.infovisual.info/02/064_en.html

lets also assume you use the entire length of your body for the cord, (impossible with peddling the unicycle)

this would give you a wingspan of about 1.5 your height. a surface area of about 4.5m/^2

to achieve equilibrium pure-drag 'lift' (no connected airfoil) you would need to be going about 20-30m/sec.

I would guess about the same for gliding flight. without flapping.

now you want to be flapping. any kind of movement in these bat wings I can only see as detrimental to the lift they are producing. even if you can 'flap' all this will do is change the lift vectors from their optimum form, ornithopters are AMAZINGLY complex, and for the most part a human carrying version has not been successful.

Please concentrate on actual experience rather than generalized equations for fixed wing lift and drag. Is it not true that a base jumper can alter the angle of descent with a "wingspan" no larger than the size of their palms? If you assume an infinitely steep hill there is no lower limit to the wingspan needed to achieve "liftoff" as I previously described.

I hope to be successful with a surface area much less than Luigi Cani's 37 sq ft canopy (not much bigger than a 4x8 piece of plywood).

The only aspect (ratio or otherwise) of bat wings I would like to imitate is their unique ability to dynamically alter camber. Sadly, I doubt this feature will be included in my first attempts; although early windsurfing sails did utilize such a feature.

As to flapping being detrimental -- can any base jumpers describe from experience a positive impact from fluttering/twitching their hands as opposed to keeping them fixed? Must one be as tiny as an insect to benefit from vortices (in ways that no equation can yet describe)?

yes of course, but in the interest of practicality and in all reality safety, we are talking about 80km/hr and a 100% slope (45 degree angle). this is with the 4'x8' 'plywood wing'.

camber is also very complicated, reynolds number, LE thickness, scaling, washout as it pertains to camber in a flexible foil. the more camber you give a 'bat' wing the less it becomes a wing and acts more like a parachute. at best a rogollo wing.

seems to me that i remember some dude named Icarus trying something similar to this idea ages ago....
I think his worked too well and his 4x8 sheet of plywood got too close to the sun and burned up!
Seriously, Dark_knight...you should look into Redbull's Flugtag contest. People are forever exploring ideas like yours, and it's wicked fun to watch!

absolutely not.

a pilot is constantly changing the shape of their foils to achieve the best LD or to precisely control their descent. there is NO cyclic 'twitching' and definitely not flapping of any kind or sorts.

Wait... you guys don't flap? Shit...

to rise up, lift must be created that is LARGER than the weight.

to glide/fall/drift to the ground at a steady rate, lift must be created EQUAL to the weight.

if you only desire to create lift LESS THAN the weight, you will fall faster and faster.

I'm not sure which of the above options you pursue, although I'd guess the second.

now you want a broad wingspan, right? can you perform the "Iron Cross" in men's Gymnastics? as you increase the wingspan, the center of lift will move outward. how wide can you place your hands, and still support your weight? that should give you an idea how large your wingspan can be!

I often use a swimming motion with my legs. Been thinking about making better use of my arms as well but not sure whether to go for crawl or breast-stroke. Any thoughts?

side stroke man...you won't tire out as long!

A slightly modified butterfly-stroke for those insisting on traditional swimming!

I've been treading water without using my legs; just various twirling/flapping of my arms to build stronger pectorals and discover most effective motion. Ideally I'd be practicing in a high pressure dome rather than water since doubling air pressure doubles lift!

If necessary I might try to transfer power from my legs and downhill pedaling momentum through an exoskeleton into dragonfly like wings.

Certainly others besides Jeb and myself are planning winged landings -- Do they all have closed lips? I believe open internet discussion will be key to the first success. How are others planning to land without dangling like a puppet from canopy strings?

http://www.dcgeorge.com/gpage4.html

birds have the advantage of being very light and having very light strong bones, unlike humanoids.

You know, what somebody needs to come up with is a way to come in low in a wingsuit, and at just the right moment, flare out for a standing landing.

That way, they could literally walk away from flying!!!

I mean, could you imagine??

Being able to fly through the air, and then come in, stand up, and walk!

That would be SOOOOO awesome!

Hopefully someone will do this soon...i mean, we do have lots of technology these days.


I have been thinking of a way that just might be feasible, if anyone's brave enough to try it.

The good part of my idea is that you might only need a minimum of, say 200' to make it work.

See below for an idea of how this might work:








http://scienceblogs.com/...er_and/parachute.JPG

lol

airplanes also afford humans the ability to come in low and fast, flare, and walk away...

Even Speed Gliders need to make use of a drogue to slow down enough for landing such as at (1:35) in this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAiJsUXgknQ

So the logistics of timing a wingsuit flare for a similar type of landing make for an improbible success rate.

Edit: Made the URL active for all those jumpers/lazy folk out there.

I wonder what Igor could do with appropriately sized independent carbon fiber wings attached to each arm. http://www.facebook.com/....php?v=1267125919961

He would have no difficulty flying (with the greatest of ease) in a dome pressurized to 8 ATM. Please provide the mathematical formulae that prove my assertion incorrect.

Incorrect, or just irrelevant?

http://jimstar.sport.fr/645598/La-WINGSUIT-a-travers-les-ages/

http://jimstar.sport.fr/...-a-travers-les-ages/

Probably "just irrelevant" !
And absolutely not incorrect .

Have any base jumpers ever tried anything like hand paddles to increase effect of palm positioning?
http://www.google.com/...wimming+hand+paddles
Would it be possible to develop a stroke and swim through the air?

This thread is hilarious... is it just me or does this have First Class Troll written all over it? This is definitely one of the better ones I have seen.

My immediate guess was DZH, but the grammar is too perfect, and I know he's on a Swiss Valley rampage right now.

Keep it going!

So what you are saying is that stroking it in freefall is the way to go?

No kidding: I've tried many times to flap my arms when flying relative to an airplane (sometimes as much as a minute) and never noticed neither positive, nor negative effect - I would simply remain in the same position relative to the airplane.

And that's easily explainable: at ~100mph total airspeed, moving arms at say 2mph can only change momentary angle of attack by ~2/100 radian, or about 1 degree. Same for dynamic pressure: at 102mph, dynamic pressure is only 4% higher than that at 100mph, and at 98mph it's about 4% lower. So modulation of aerodynamic properties induced by flapping wings is really small and its average effect is close to zero.

The reason birds can fly and we can't is because birds can flap their wings at speeds comparable to their sustained gliding speed and we can't.

yuri_base, thanks for a perspective based on personal experience. I can easily imagine great difficulty at 100mph. I am more interested in much slower speeds during a pitchup landing attempt. What are the limits on human flapping? Mike Mangini the fastest drummer has achieved over 20 beats per second!

matt_f_001, what I am thinking is that a change in momentum using energy released through flapping/stroking will be required for a climactic landing accomplished without dangling like a puppet from canopy strings.

No shit. This is hilarious.

That sounds reasonable but you are probably going to need a nap after all that stroking.

Here you go - you asked...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n9tgbmMulQ

I think that opening guy is as far as Dark Knight will ever get.

No offense meant Dark, it's just you don't seem to understand the energy needed to overcome gravity, even for a few seconds.

No offense taken, Calvin. I don't see any need to understand mathematical details related to overcoming gravitational energy when I've been doing it in my dreams for over 50 years and have a strong intuitive feeling that a wingsuit landing will take place in less than 10 years.

http://vyle-art.com/...shcan/wingsuit_B.jpg


While I like the futuristic view in jimstar's link, I don't think the skateboard wheels would offer enough stability at speeds above 30mph. And the wings don't provide needed responsive flex based on bio-feedback sensitivity to control a landing on a larger single wheel at any speed.

Have there been any attempts by ski jumpers to extend their jumps by wearing a wingsuit and landing on their skis? I am aware of BASE jumpers that kick their skis off, but it seems possible that under the right conditions a short flight followed by a landing might be possible. Why haven't any "expert" ski-jumpers tried such a feat?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4c4DhVVAwU

Are all seriously innovative attempts outside of Google's grasp due to selfish patent desires? I doubt we would need to wait another 10 years for a wingsuit landing if everyone shared their plans in an open forum. What are members here planning to do?

It's been posted before, but here it is again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZizIbSpI-g

did you even see this thread??


Calvin talked about energy required, and you dismissed it. You don't seem to read or comprehend what is stated here already. Is this the best way to engage in a serious discussion?

Do you think people want to act on a dream of yours without technical rational?

Thank you so much HaydnH! To me that represents the first successful wingsuit landing without a parachute! And is far superior to any of my previous plans as a batwinged unicyclist. I wonder to what extent the skis aerodynamically increase lift and reduce fall rate. Certainly it will only be a few years before someone lands after jumping out of a plane. Does it make sense to spend 3 million to build a slide in Las Vegas that does not require wheels or skis and might result in death due to an unexpected bounce (I personally don't rule out that Jeb might have more rolled up his sleeve)?

Damn Google for not properly identifying that video as the first successful wingsuit landing without a parachute. It isn't even in the first page of search results for wingsuit ski jumping!

Perhaps I can help Google properly identify the first wingsuit landing:
wingsuit landing

Hopefully in just a few hours that will cause Google to list it as the top hit for the following search:
"wingsuit landing"

No is my answer to all 3 questions. But I do hope that at times others will act on intuition and experience without being overly concerned about mathematical equations.

Perhaps not only should I have been reading the general forum but also should have started this thread in that forum due to my lack of concern with technical details.

Are you kidding?

Pretty much everything I do, ranging from extremely advanced and complicated rope freefall and rope access systems to building experimental rigid paraglider frames and wingsuiting massive natural cliffs is on feeling alone. The math is there to help figure out of something will work or not before we do it. If you have 'faith' that it will work, go try it and film it. cause I want to see either way.

A friend of mine sent me this:
"""""""""
Physics is our attempt to codify a set of rules that describes what is possible.
At this moment we are getting closer to a complete rule set, but we are a long way from finishing the job."""""""""""

In the history of recorded/observable man, these rules have never been violated.

not only does your idea not work on paper without at least 80-100+kmh of speed and a very steep slope AND body reinforcements/spanwise spar, but it does not work in my mind or the mind of pretty much everyone else in this thread who know a hell of a lot more about advanced aerodynamics, human flight, and innovation than me.

'google' does not hide anything, anyone who is working on anything having anything to do with the human flight we do and you are thinking about is for the most part a friend or a friend of a friend of someone on this forum. the world is big, but it's not that big.

as soon as someone figures out anything close to what you are trying to do, we will all know about it. and it wont happen fast.

those ski jumpers in a wingsuit are going pretty fast, WAY faster than the fastest unicyclist can go in any kind of control, especially down a slope like shown in that video.

The vision you have is pretty cool, I understand that it would be beautiful to watch something like that happen, but with the control and grace I think you are going for, you will need a wire to hold you up. and if all it is is art, that should be ok.

You may be right about a wire to hold me up, but I would only do so during unpublished practice attempts. I may also try to include a small autogyro allowing slower speeds. With some luck, I might be able to latch onto recent research involving corrugated dragonfly wings, and autorotating maple seeds to increase lift through vortices.

Aerodynamic characteristics of dragonfly wings

Maple seeds and animals exploit the same trick to fly

gyro hang glider


Well it took several days instead of a few hours but Google now has this thread in second place under video results showing Jeb's landing project and an animated crash landing. But sadly the video of Andreas Küttel's wingsuit flight landing on skis is still buried.

Google is dynamic! Today Jan 12, 2010, this thread is no longer on first page of Google results and has been replaced by the batwinged unicyclist Google site and a Wikipedia entry about Andreas Andreas Küttel.

A auto-gyro would be very doable at MUCH lower speeds and probably easier to do. I hate those machines personally, no bad experiences with them myself, but they just, well, I don't like them. the worst of all parts it seems.

I agree with your dislike and would only consider using a small auto-gyro to decrease speed if necessary. While professional ice skaters seem to have no problem spinning at high speeds, any amount of spin would frighten me while falling to Earth. However, I wonder how much a BASE jumper could reduce rate of fall by simply tilting their palms in opposite directions. It might be possible to slide light weight propeller shaped blades over each arm and then at the appropriate height spin to a safe landing. Autorotation requires a negative angle of attack in the blades, but an experienced helicopter pilot can switch to a positive angle of attack at the last moment to achieve a very soft landing. Does anyone else believe a BASE jumper might be able to survive using such a technique (splash down into water for first human helicopter attempt - without breaking their arms)? Have any jumpers ever been able to began and end a controlled spin by simply using the angle of their palms?

I'm a die-hard BASE jumper. I've been jumping off of stuff since i was 21. I always land with a spinning motion, cause i'm super cool. Check out the attached picture of me right before landing to see how its done. bitches.

...and here's where this thread is on its lifespan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDthMGtZKa4

This thread may not live long and prosper, but technology will continue to advance:

"Von Egidy is developing a suit she calls the Integrated Glide and Landing System (IGALS) that will allow fliers to do the same.
...
The most innovative part of the design, though, is that it allows the pilot to drop out of the wing just before landing and hang beneath it, rather like a hang-glider pilot does, making it easier to flare without losing control.
...
She plans to enlist stunt riggers to help set up giant swings so test pilots can practise swooping."
dangerous dreams

Just a dream by Maria von Egidy, who heads a wingsuit company called Jii-Wings?

sounds like a cool plan. I'd love to see video of that.

kinda sounds like he invented a hang glider. not at all lame, just, a hang glider. hang gliders are awesome. but they are not wingsuits.

She, not he! Maria von Egidy is a wingsuit designer. Yes it does sound like a modified hang glider but what if it is simply a bigger stiffer detachable version of her GS1 from Jii-wings?
http://www.jii-wings.com/development.htm

Sorry, SHE invented a hang glider.

yeah, putting sticks in a wingsuit to increase the wingspan and aspect ratio would make a hang glider.

take up BASE jumping, and then see if YOU want to access an exit point while hauling a rigid structure.

I'm having trouble understanding why you've brought this discussion to a BASE forum, let alone one dedicated to the technical issues surrounding BASE jumping. it seems that this a particular poor venue for a non-jumper to be promoting anything.

is this really the best place for you to discuss your dream?

Sorry, I already responded above that I should have started this thread in the general forum. I am not trying to promote anything specific other than a winged landing involving two independently controlled wings and a single wheel (not a large rigid single wing structure that is difficult to haul to exit points). I wanted to know what BASE jumpers thought, not skydivers, not hang gliders ...

Based on most of the responses this does not appear to be the best place to discuss my dreams. However, I do appreciate all the responses serious and otherwise.