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What kills most high profiled jumpers?

Why do so many of the real high profiled jumpers make one stupid mistake. It is easy later to tell they died because of a stupid mistake, or best at all do not mention they did a stupid mistake.

There comes a time when you have to stop and say enough is enough, I can not progress any more, and let the new generation take over, or at least wait until you have the technology or skills to do what you want to do.

Others know there is go or no go, and some have already realized there is only one end of what they are doing, and are willing to make most out of it.

If it is not for your own sake, at least think of those of your friends or family who is left behind! Think twice for god sake.

Just seconds difference from hero to zero, and who want to go out of the sport as a zero?

I don't think anyone in BASE leaves as a zero, they have all experienced life to the fullest, and in the best way they know how.

Some people take a gamble and loose, some people take a gamble and are lucky.

i'm sure most of the BASE jumpers out there would've had a close call. If your close call turned out differently you too would be labeled with "he went in from a stupid mistake". Fact is, high profile jumpers just get a bigger response when they go in, because they made the most impact on the sport.

I can't understand that if a jumper successfully makes a jump it gets no recognition from the press, but as soon as they go in, the press is all over it with an "I told you so" attitude.
My 2c

The fact is:

We have more high profiled jumpers today than before!
We also total have more jumpers

The first 20 years 44 died in the sport
The last 10 years getting close to 100

There is nothing to pioneer anymore. We also can use known knowledge from other sports as skydiving, hang gliding, paragliding, speed gliding and the fatality list. There is no more heroes to make except perform better and more safe. There is nothing out there worth dying for.

I can agree when you do ground braking activities where there is no previous information to relate on, you can accept a higher risk, but for proximity flying before you have learned to fly your wing suit for an example, or just jump of things where you do not know if you are going to make it or not over the ledge. I know this is touchy, but it have to be discussed before than later. Should we just be silent and do not discuss accidents when jumpers obvious do stupid things. Maybe better not discuss open, but say it when none of their friends is listening. I am not worried about those who died, but of those who will if we do not take it as an serious matter for the futures sake.

Lauterbrunnen, Romsdalen and other legal jump sites will experience more jumpers in the future, and there is no regulations there except Kjerag. It is up to you to preserve how it is.

Well, maybe not anymore (but then, somebody will find something for sure, history shows that).
In reaction to the 20-10 years figures: last 10 year had many more jumpers, more people doing aerials, WS flying, terrain flying. Surely that does explain a lot.

Ronald

As I recall... Bill Booth says "the safer he makes his equipment the trickier we are about killing ourselves with it."

Enough with the tricks people.

jon

Only my opinions:

The Best basejumper in the world: The one who walks away with a big smile on his/hers face!!

The most courage basejumper: The who has the balls to say: No this is not my jump(day,time,conditions....) and walks back....

I think the urge to push yourself too much exists within many jumpers, not just the high-profile "experts."

For several years, it seemed that every busy weekend in Idaho resulted in a herd mentality to out do each other. The results frequently ended up in ugliness.

Newbies want to get into BASE with precious little experience. Novice jumpers desire to get their number as quickly as possible. Others wish to do the wickedly cool stuff they see on video. Too often they discount the journey and fixate on the result.

Also to remember the risk just to jump off the object was higher before. How many jumps versa a rescue in Troll Wall in the very beginning?

The numbers can be played one or another way.

In the mid 80íes the Norwegian skydiving community copied a saying "Stopp snillismen" directly translated it will say something like Stop the kindism! Get down to the very problem, find out why the statistic is so bad, and solve it. Today the statistic is 150 000 jumps one accident (Accident = dead) versa before 30 000 jumps. The more jumpers or jumps is not automatic more accidents, and we also see that in other outdoor sports progression as well.

Romsdalen have 3 accidents in less than 10 months counting from the last in Bispen to September in Troll Wall last year. That will say something like 1 pr 500 jumps. Not a good number to present for the those who rescue the bodies, and nothing we should be proud of. All 3 is quite easy to figure out why they happen, but not exact what happen in details.

Yes of course, but we tend to be a bit more polite when one of the heroes goes in, and also the media cover is a lot more intense when a high profile jumper goes in. We also tend to accept more risk taken by the heroes sometimes. Me included....

...so damn true

Stagnation is also death.

But there are other valuable and rewarding avenues of life that we can choose to explore. I remember an old post from TomA about such things.

IMO: There are 3 ways out of BASE jumping: You get either get scared, injured or pregnant.

Scared of what? getting injured or getting pregnant?

Correlation does not imply causality.

Most of the real high profile jumpers have a lot of jumps.

A lot of jumps mean

1) More risk provided that risk per jump is not inversely proportional to the number of jumps.

2) Jumps with a lower margin of error (landing areas, opening altitudes, freefall toys, proximity flight, etc.) to keep things interesting enough to be worth the hike or climb.

3) Lower psychological arousal than needed for peak performance due to familiarity.

4) A higher chance of complacency since things went well enough for the first 500 or 1000+.


People in general are notoriously bad at self-evaluation, especially where they're inexperienced.

When it takes 10,000 hours (Malcom Gladwell) to really master anything, there aren't really any BASE jumpers who'd qualify as masters.

Ok ! you have already complete the 3 ways !!! stop base and let go paragliding

Benon benon! Al Sabat?

damn, you're right, i'm gonna take up bowling!

Kippa came the closest . . .

>>The Best basejumper in the world: The one who walks away with a big smile on his/hers face!!<<

>>>The most courage basejumper: The who has the balls to say: No this is not my jump (day,time,conditions....) and walks back....<<<

The final death quotient rides along with the times. We can forgive a lot of the early BASE fatalities for what they where. Jimmy and Marlen died in windy condition, fine, who knew then that wind kills? The first few early low pull wing suit fatalities where because they were faked out by the combination of low speed and low altitude, fine who knew?

If you invent a new way to die on a BASE jump, fine, you own it, and you'll save some lives in the future. And that's something worthy of our respect.

But die making the same mistake five people made before you marks your name in the blotter as an also ran, and you become just a footnote in BASE history. You died for nothing but fun. And no matter how much fun BASE is - it's totally not worth your life.

Doing the original BFL I came to grips with death and BASE. Sure, I miss a lot of them. I miss their laugh, I miss their friendship, and I miss the inevitable good times when we were together. But I save my respect for those still walking among us. I value more a man that's made 200 successful BASE jumps rather than the man who's dead and made a thousand.

And what's with being, "the one?" It seems to me the thing that finally gives them "one" status is they die. Is there anything in BASE that's more fail than dieing? You can push it and push it but dieing pretty much wipes out whatever you did before.

So you can lament them, and you can miss them, but don't worship them. Save that for the long time BASE guys who are still alive.

For instance I like Spacey Tracy and I liked Dwayne. But I save my respect for the guy that's still in the game . . .

NickD
BASE 194

BASE jumping is activity which is very risky, just as it is climbing,
mountaineering, speleology, free diving, etc...
What is common to all above ?!
All this activities are not pure sport!
For doing them you need skill, and to get the skill you must expose yourself
from the very start to the dangerous situations.
In such activity, people dies and will die in the future.

Why best BASE jumpers (feeling Paul have) die?!
Because they explore, they try and they develop the activity.
In every dangerous activity leaders are more exposed and they are first to
go if mistake is done, not the followers!
Do you expect from beginner to open the new spot?! Sure not!
Best among BASE society are doing this, just like best extreme alpinist goes
to summit never explored before.
Doing this, leaders dies, makes mistakes... often due to much confidence
(confidence which must be 100% in order to even think to try) to make step
forward!!

Leaders in such activities are making other 99% of "cool" and "great" base
jumpers great!
Therefore, please keep in mind what those guys did and respect that!
For sure they deserve this!!

Forgive them their mistake, purely because they were more prone to make one!

It is easy to say after the mistake - hey that was stupid or that was
mistake!!
In order to understand, go out on the field (mountain) and try and figure it
out by yourself...

Every loss is sad, and just sad. It is not stupid or useless as there are no
useful dead nor smart way of getting dead!
In 99,99% of the fatal jumps of very experienced jumpers, jump had perfect
sense! Think about that Kipa!

To lead is very hard, to follow (and blame or criticize) is much easier and
very safe.
We need leaders and pushers, without them human kind would still walk, not
knowing what aircraft or parachute is....
We would dream still about space program, etc...
Respect the every experienced who is not with us, as equal as the living
ones.
They deserve it as they made you BASE jumper.

We live in deeds, not years; in thoughts, not breaths
by Philip James Bailey

We live in deeds, not years; in thoughts, not breaths;
In feelings, not in figures on a dial.
We should count time by heart-throbs. He most lives
Who thinks most, feels the noblest, acts the best.
And he whose heart beats quickest lives the longest:
Lives in one hour more than in years do some
Whose fat blood sleeps as it slips along their veins.
Life's but a means unto an end; that end,
Beginning, mean, and end to all things—God.
The dead have all the glory of the world.

Some spirits burn so bright and quickly that they are not meant to be in this world for long. They devour life at such a pace that those around them are inspired and attracted to them like a moth to a flame. Living life well, loving and being loved far outweighs the ticks on the clock or pages turned on a calendar.

As Bob Dylan sang, "it's better to burn out than fade away".

I don't think striving to be the ONE is anything less than being human. It's what put the first plane in the air, discovers medical miracles, put a man in space, climbs the highest peaks, creates art and music, allows man to free fall and traveled forward like a bird, and one day land without a parachute.

The goal shouldn't be to kill the hunger for being the "one", but rather eliminate the acceptance of being mediocre when it comes to evaluating risks and skills. I think now more than ever, the world community is looking for heroes, for those that strive to go beyond, test limits and dream of "what's next?".

Yes BASE is risky, do not need to be a scientist to find out that. But still after been in the game a "few" years, there is not complicated to brake down the accidents numbers to very few who did some rocket science.

I believe just to have the discussion is worth more than anything else.

What do you want to see in the future?

sorry, but I can't accept your thinking.

dead is dead.

just because someone is confidant, does not mean they have earned their confidence.

sure, some get to advance what humans can do and become heroes. the Wright brothers did exactly that. they designed the first wind tunnel, disproved much of the conventional wisdom, and studied their way to success. possibly more important than flight, they established a methodical approach to engineering.

amazing stuff.

now, who can name those who tried but failed?
how many died? do people care, or simply ignore that uncomfortable truth?
who honors these dead "innovators"?
(the Wright brothers looked at their deaths and realized they did not know enough and essentially started from scratch.)

flying never killed the Wright brothers.

I see little value in modeling yourself after those who take exceptional risks and happen to survive. I see no value in modeling yourself after those who do not survive.

if someone wants to sit back and admire the stunts that succeeded, well, fine.

maybe it's just that I don't BASE to feel "cool." I'd still jump for myself, even if there were no videos or public knowledge of BASE. it's part of me, not my self-image. my goal remains simply to survive, not caring if any one notices my jumping.

It very nearly killed them. Orville was in at least two bad crashes, one of which killed his copilot. Wilbur had at least one bad crash. You could say they only got lucky... RiggerLee was talking about exactly that. Pilots will never stop inventing new ways to kill themselves, and neither will BASE jumpers.

Good discussion, yes... but all the touchy-feeliness about respect and mistakes is somewhat moot. We all hope not to die jumping, but once we're dead, we won't care. We're the people who've been left behind by our passed friends. We mourn our own sadness, not theirs. Until that sadness forces you to stop jumping, you've chosen to live with the risks.

And the Wright brothers and the Dwain Westons will always be out there doing things you think are stupid, while the rest of society looks at you and calls you stupid while you jump within established technique. And our friends are sometimes going to kill themselves making stupid mistakes, but let us not forget how much dumb shit we've done and gotten away with. In the end I respect the dead jumpers, and the living jumpers, the same as I respect my friend who learns the violin instead because it ain't gonna kill him. Lets just let each other do what makes us happy, because it isn't always about "trying to be the one." And even if that's what someone wants... that's their choice.

maybe you missed Robis point because you are a follower not a leader?

Jimmy was a hardcore uncompromising well trained talented mofo. He had an unstoppable drive that opened many sites and pulled off many incredible/impossible jumps. You can't turn that shit off just because it does not fit within your personal norms of whats an acceptable level of risk.


Also...that lame arsed marketing crap about best jumper being biggest smiler... works for unthinking mainstream sheep/followers/consumers but not for those at the tip of the spear.

ofcourse I could be wrong

Robi, that was perfect.

maybe if you spent more time in the mountains jumping and less time staring at your computer screen then you might understand.

..what is the reason that fatality numbers are still high?!

start from there...

general PARACHUTING knowledge is lower than it was before, but to get in to demanding jumps, today takes much less than it was before, so jumpers takes more risk in general.

what yesterday was for experienced jumper , today is for beginners.

Equipment is better and safer.

Today, I guess much more people base jump than 10 years ago , while the average fatality number remain the same ..cca.12-14.
That clearly shows that in general BASE is safer than it was before.

wwarped:
jumpers I am talking about , those who pushing forward, does not jump for your recognition. they do that because they are simply different, but
they do respect if someone recognize and respect their work and not calling them ''idiot'' (just because they are different)

Understanding comes later as usual, just like it was w Wright brothers...( i am amazed that you really think that they studied ther adventure to every single detail, as that day when they took off , be sure , they had no clue if they will be alive)

Aviation is the activity were it is well known how the progress was made!

 

I agree completely!! And wish a couple of my
long time whuffo friends understood this too.

Yah too bad it isn't a two-way street, more often!

Agreed with both. Jump for yourself, not for the fame/recognition/honor/etc. If you jump for yourself, it is NOT related to "The hunger for being the ONE!"

There is random risk, and then there is managed risk. That seems lost on too many over-enthusiastic people. They simply wish to accept risk without minimizing it. They are eager to be "The One."

Many want to mimic DW's accomplishments. Do the mimic his thought process? Do they mimic his preparation?

The urge to be "The One" tends to make people reckless. They focus on the results, not the journey.

"The One"

Interesting questions, answers, thoughts, and philosophies.

Jesus was in his early 30's when he died on the cross with the belief that he was saving and therefore improving the world. He could have shut up and lived long. Some think that he was an idiot and the whole concept of Christ and faith and dying on the cross does not even exist or make sense.

A matter of opinion.

Others devote their lives to the same belief that led Jesus to that cross.

It was a big sacrifice - made for other people. Some people believe that they do not need anyone to sacrifice for them.

Whether you're a believer, a sinner, an atheist, and agnostic, with some level of thinking you could draw parallels.......

Being the best and helping others improve are noble causes. It drives personal performance and creates a natural flow on affect on improving others.
But at what sacrifice / cost and by what definition is the best? This is really up to the individual to determine. My best and yours may be different. My reasons for being and yours are most certainly different. My understanding and yours are probably different and will depend on many factors.

Much of the discussion here is about what each of us, as individuals, value in life. For some, life itself is the most precious thing and that any risk to it is not worth it. Others are willing to die for what they believe in - achievement, contribution, faith and belief in afterlives or higher beings, our mates, our loved ones, life experiences, underlying psychological needs, belonging, recognition. Yet others have no real concept of what is important, we have not quite worked it out and are feeling our way through life. Making mistakes on the way. Usually little ones that develop our character, values, morals, ethics, experiences, beliefs . . . Others simply make big mistakes, and they end up dead.

Life is just one big risk versus reward equation:

- do I risk belief in God? Will this constrain me, or will this give me freedom. Will others laugh at me or respect my beliefs. Do I care what others think?
- do I risk love. Will I get hurt or will I experience an incredible loving relationship.
- do I risk financial security? Comfort in a lifetime commitment to debt and jobs versus financial freedom or poverty.
- do I risk missing out on sensations, experiences, and feelings by not pursing activities such as travel, adventure, etc.
- does society risk cultural, physical, spiritual, emotional death by preventing individuals and groups in acting, believing, thinking, and existing in different ways? Are many lives saved worth the extinction of life experience?

Really, there is no right and wrong answer.

Just opinions, beliefs, values that each of us individually possess.

The fact that we can discuss these and agree or not is a healthy thing. Imagine if everyone was on the same wavelength and doing the same thing?

What value is there in a life not lived? What does living life really mean?

- - - - - - -

I hate it when people go in, but I am cold to it now as it happens too often.

Yes, following virtually every accident, you can say that the person did something wrong and if they had of changed one thing leading up to their death, they would still be alive. Human error is something we all experience. It's only the process and outcome that varies.

It would be great to have hindsight as foresight.......... or would it?????? Imagine knowing everything that is going to happen. Imagine if everything was predictable and occurred exactly as you expected it???? I shudder at this thought.

- - - - - - -

I have had interesting experiences with BASE jumping and skydiving, particularly with teaching people that have gone on to become well regarded in the sport - a number of which have died. To watch or be a part of the growth of individuals is an amazing thing. I have learned a lot - about them, about the sport, and about myself. And how to judge people and outcomes.

Jimmy Freeman? First jumps, and first wingsuit flights. He always had great ability, and spent a lot of time and effort honing his skills. Although it may appear externally that he went from nothing to doing some amazing stuff, he did LOTS of prep and practice. He was an individual in many respects and most of the time did things for himself. But he also did things to prove to others what he was capable of - we all do that to some extent. Managing the inevitable and variable gap between actual ability and belief in ability was at most times very easy with him, but occassionally hard. I am not surprised that he has passed away jumping, but that is more about the fact that I generally do not get suprised when I hear of another passing.. I am conditioned. I was disappointed when I heard how.

Dwain? First wingsuits and lessons! And planning together all those amazing jumps. Hours and hours of preparation. Thought he would live forever. Not surprised that he didn't. Again, disappointed when I heard how he went in.

Slim? First wingsuits and lessons! There was a man on a mission? Initially thought no, but later thought maybe yes. Growing competition and increasing difficulty of jumps with diminished physical ability. Lots of natural talent, trying to keep up with the Dwains's! With regards to his final jump, to me it was unlucky to some extent, but it was also the final outcome of previous incidents, his physical condition, and his zest for maximising his life experience. If not dying jumping, he would have danced himself to death. He was not going to go out with a whimper.

All three were intelligent, skilled, high achievers coming from fractured family units. All three had something to prove to themselves, and to others.

Adam G? First Jumps. Not confident with him from the start. Sent away to get more experience. Took on early jumps. He did not like the pace I was teaching and sought quicker training - no, experience! Definitely not surprised with outcome, but disappointed again. Although many amazing jumps performed, I believed too much too soon and there was a gap between actual and potential - his thought process was a concern to me. The end result was the focus, not the journey on how to get there.

The point of all this is - the outcome was inevitable, the details may have varied. There are complex underlying psychologies at work here that led to the final result. Trying to understand what each individual did and how may go some way to explaining why they have ended up deceased. New jumpers (and the general public) look at experienced people dying and it scares them or cements their belief that BASE is just dangerous.

Gaining an understanding of the personalities involved and why / what they did helps people understand and may alleviate fears, and assist in others moving on.


etc.

When the margins are skint, the outcomes become more predictable. You either just make it, or you just miss out. There is not much variation between these two levels. High level jumpers often exist in this realm

There is a theme above. It is hard to think that I introduced someone to an activity such as BASE or wingsuits and that they die from it. Not because I introduced them, but because it was very easy in hindsight to say that there last jump was so preventable. But then, they did that last jump because that is who they were. That is what they wanted to do. I was there at the beginning - the impetus or catalyst. But in the end, I was just a number who was there at the right / wrong place and time. Those individuals are who they are, and they made the decisions they made because of who they are.

That is why our paths crossed. Kindred spirits in ways that are hard to describe. The inevitable end would only change in details had the beginning been different.

Yes, dying young of unnatural causes is not nice. Leaving loved ones behind and adding to the negative side of the sports statistics is not nice. I think we can all agree on this.

I think it is important to celebrate the lives of each and every individual. It is also very important to see something for what it is. Jimmy, Dwain, Slim, Adam, etc FUCKED UP. In their deaths, they showed a very obvious but important quality: mortality - they were human, and despite their great skill and potential, they made preventable mistakes. Recognising this is am important process in prolonging other people's lives.

Were their lives wasted by the decision THEY made to perform their final jump???? That is not for you or I to decide. It was their decision. The outcome was not intended and was not desirable for sure.

Were their lives a waste? NO. NEVER. To varying extents, each of these individuals had satisfied needs and wants. We learned from them. We saw what we has humans are capable of. The skills they learned have been passed on to many people both within and external to our sport. Some examples are:
- better aerial recovery techniques for unstable jumpers.
- equipment and technique improvements.
- a growing pool of knowledge and experience about what is possible and not, what level of risk is involved in performing certain activities.
- many people have been motivated to vary their life experience due to these individuals and to open their minds to new possibilities. New careers, travel, taking up new hobbies and activities that they excel at, etc.
- building confidence and self esteem.
- planning, risk assessment, organisational, teamwork skills, etc.
- the highs and lows of new relationships.

The list could be endless.

Can't believe you read this far!

Beautiful commentary and not only did I read it all, but twice. I appreciate the fact that you drew from my thoughts to the comparison to Jesus. The poem “One Solitary Life” came to mind while discussing “the ones” who have recently passed in a discussion with 434.

I do believe you are correct in saying we do not grieve for our dead, but rather the void they have left in our lives and in those they left behind. It is a disappointment when they pass on, but as you stated if not in BASE jumping then perhaps in some other activity as they lived life at full speed ahead no matter what they were attempting. Slim must have been one hell of a dancer.

If life is viewed as the ultimate adventure, your soul’s journey, then BASE jumping is a smart part of that journey and as in life, cannot be defined by one man for another. There can be many different paths to the end result of personal fulfillment in life, just as there are many paths in BASE.

Great post Mr. Begic. I'm saving this one.

cheers

+1

Incredible post!

This should be in the articles or something.

wow......

Great read... Though, the kinetics of "going in" and referring to it as "passed away" seem way too contradictory for me. My only criticism. Instance, when a 25 yo dies of a massive heart attack here at work, referring to it as " passed away" is tragic and has evoked horrific responses from immediate family. It's tragedy, no ifs ands or buts,

Not sure what qualifies as a "high profiled" jumper to you or not, or more importantly, why it even matters. I can speak for myself only, and I will say that BASE to me is an INDIVIDUAL sport. It doesn't matter how much experience you have, or how many people exit the object with you...EVERYONE IS ALONE WHEN THEIR FEET LEAVE THE EDGE. How you you perceive these "high profiled" jumpers is probably not how they view themselves. They just love to BASE jump...for their own reasons, just like you (?).
cheers!
pope

Im not sure "High Profile" jumpers was correct, but for sure it did it´s job to draw attention to the issue I wanted to rise. First of all, there is no solution, we are all individuals, and maybe not searching for the same outcome of what we are doing. I have always tried to do it as safe as possible. Even when I went out of my limits, I tried to calculate as good as possible. After a surten death´s I became numb, and the next quite cold. There is only a few accidents after that period that really did have a impact on me, and that was because of meeting the family, not because of the jumpers death, since I know they are at a better place right now.

Maybe I should have written wannabes? Not correct either, since I believe all of us seek some fame after awhile in the sport. Maybe only from the jumpers inner circle, others to be a youtube hero. All I am asking for, is to remember we all have someone who will miss us, and a true basejumper, he should or want to preserve the sites and to protect the other jumpers from bad publicity. We all know how the forums going hot when someone burn an object, dayblaze or doing anything stupid and survive.

My english is not the best so excuse me if i did not put down the correct words or grammar. Please pm me if I am a big mouth speaking to loud. If not post it here.

please do not apologize for your grammar. few here would want to post in Norwegian!

keep inspiring good discussions. I really enjoyed reading Lee & Tom's posts. They added some great quality. (far better than mine...)

keep up the good work.

There is some quite good and interesting post´s in here, and the post TVPB made should be added as an article it selves.

Exactly, thanks for some great points!



I'm sure that all of them fully understood the risks, and appreciated those risks. They weren't planning on dying, but they pushed it anyway.

If any of them could read the people here saying that they were wrong for taking potentially fatal risks, I have a feeling their response would be something like, "Fuck Off, I knew it could happen, and you have no right to tell me how to BASE jump!"

Seriously... I think it's hilarious that there are people in this thread who are trying to tell other jumpers how to live their lives... "Quit it with the risky stuff", they whine.

What may seem unreasonably risky to one person who doesn't 'see the line' will feel normal and perfectly attainable to another. What set Jimmy apart from the people in this thread who thought he was risking too much was his ability to see that what he was doing was totally attainable, provided that he didn't fuck up. And of course he knew he might fuck up. Again, it was his choice!

Who says he was so bent on being a hero? Maybe he was just enjoying himself? Is that not a possibility? And maybe for him, that enjoyment was worth the risk. That should be ok with everyone here, really.

Why criticize? Although as Robi says, it's easy to do.
Especially while those people are sitting behind their screens, typing posts day after day and not jumping.

As for respect, I'll save mine for people who live life the way they want to live their lives... regardless of whether they are currently living or dead.

Well you have some good points as well. I do sit behind a desk typing this shit, and maybe I should stop! I will think about it. It is not my concern at all what you are doing.

I really do not understand why I care at all. Maybe you will find the answer one day.

Edit note: I am not angry in this post, because the truth is, I really do not know, why I am nagging about safety over and over, since I do have quit jumping. Maybe I hope somebody is going to take their safety in their own hand. I do have huge respect for all of you I have met in person. I am really interesting in progress, not only in techniques but also in safety. It should go hand in hand when we evolve the sport.

Don't stop!!! This shit helps make our sport better and helps people like me who dont have expierence think a little more before we act. (Hopefully!!!) Thankx to everyone for some great insite!

I liked your post, Mr. Begic, thank you very much.

P.S. Do you mind translating it into Russian for the Moscow crew? 'Thanks in advance.

Hey Paul, posting and talking about this creates discourse which can be educational, insightful, and helpful. So, thanks for that, and don't stop...
This thread caused me to think even more about accidents - the accidents which, on a long enough timeline, we will all have. Because no one can be perfect forever.
I'm all for discussion. Needless criticism, however, I think I can do without.

..."If not dying jumping, he would have danced himself to death. He was not going to go out with a whimper .

that is priceless & true.
thanks I needed that.
.

...unfortunately from my very own experience: a lot of "high profile" very close friends which are gone by doing all kind of sports such as paragliding, hanggliding, skydiving, BASE-jumping etc. throughout the years...

...there are no dangerous sports - just dangerous people...

...sorry to say this - but we are responsible - no one else

Bernhard

Dobar post Tome ... dobar ...

I have a short answer!

It is very important to highlight mistakes and the mortality of man.
When the elite make mistakes, it highlights to the rest of us that if they can stuff up, it is imminently possible that we will to.

If one of these discussions stops someone, changes their approach, or makes them think, then the conversation is very worthwhile.

The elite generally would not tell someone to get stuffed if they told them they stuffed up. That is one of the major things that make them the best - the ability and desire to take constructive feedback.

The best I have seen at this is Douggs. He is not a bad jumper () but he listens to the gurus and the newbies alike. Not only does he have an endearing personality and immense talent, but a desire to teach and learn.

Having spent much time with Jimmy, Dwain, and other prominent jumpers, they would appreciate these comments about risk.

The classic example is the Article: "Go Long, Not Hard" which Dwain put his name to.

This conversation is about the definition of hard. A newbie pushing limits is stupid, an elite jumper with maximum prep and risk management is a different story. However, if they stuff up (which we are all capable of), then they stuffed up.

Jimmy's funeral was a little surreal today. His family was totally supportive of his choices in life - they wish, like any family, that he didn't BASE jump. But because they knew it was who he was, they accepted it.

My sincerest condolences to his parents and brother - and to all his friends and family. xoxoxoxo

Yes, you do need someone to say slow down. This is not whining. Yes, we all have choices in life and we should be allowed to make those choices.

I don't think anyone has overly criticized our lost brothers and sisters for their choices. They (including me) have been disappointed by the final decisions. But I think that overall, people have respected our deceased and the lives they have led.

My thoughts on and my experience with Jimmy - he jumped for himself. In a lot of ways he was an independent maverick trying to prove to himself how far he could go and what he could do. But he also wanted recognition. He was a brilliant jumper . . . . . . who followed some of the worlds greatest ever (DW + Slim).

Wanting recognition is a normal human trait, a basic underlying and fundamental psychological need.

Some of us just need a thank you for being nice and an I love you. Others need to be seen as the best in the world at their chosen pursuit.

The title of greatest BASE jumper ever is a noble pursuit fraught with danger and riddle with death. But to achieve this is an incredible feat - especially considering the reputation of the sport. "The most extreme of the most extreme".
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"THE ONE".

Well, your answer makes me realize that we are both presuming to know what dead people would say, and I guess we probably both don't ;-)

In any event, I agree that input from the community, when put forth in a constructive manner, is useful and may even save someone from hurting or killing themselves. If I did something retarded and subsequently got away with it but didn't realize the gravity of my error, I would want my friends to tell me. Like Douggs would, certainly.

But we don't need quips and jabs from people who didn't even know the jumpers, mindlessly criticizing them posthumously with no constructive content whatsoever. That's just fucking tacky!

Anyway, that's about enough forum participation for me for this year. This topic is a sensitive one for me though, having watched 2 close friends die in front of me and having lost a couple others. I participate in the same activities that killed them on an almost daily basis.

Well. All I can say is:

Stay Safe

Have Fun

Good Luck

I don't jump for myself. I jump for my pet rock!

I keep hearing and reading in BASE jumping "I only jump for myself," "he only jumped for himself, no one else." I've never met a jumper who jumped for someone else.

Though way out of my league here when it comes to basejumping, I read a lot here in an effort to learn, for when I deem myself mature and wise enough (or not) to start basejumping.

But I do get what the original poster is trying to say. As it seems aimed especialy at the jumpers who seem to be into this for the fame and glory. Not pushing because it comes from within, but pushing to be cool, be on tv, and be able to claim their place as a name.

Its the kids that come up to me with 80 skydives, demanding I teach em to fly a wingsuit, because they already have a suit, and are jumping it in Lauterbrunnen next weekend anyways, and they are going to proximityfly past this and that thing and go there with a tv crew.

It seems there are a lot of reasons for basejumping there, but most seem unrelated to the experience, but moreso to some daddy-issues and hunger for recognition..

And its those guys who you'll see copying robert, espen etc at 20 basejumps, because they need to do the same thing...just so they can point to youtube and say they did that...and better/more hardcore..

Like others have said..the fame/destination seems to outweigh the actual road and experience..

I wrote an article on this subject a while ago...
We'd like to believe everyone is a skilled athley
te..but the newer jumpers (both sports) seem to be in a rush...with no time for this annoying experience thing...

"The road is more important than the destination."

Thank you for your post and article.

And yet all this talk is pointless, because people will still continue to push limits way beyond themselves (be it newbies or professionals) and continue dying in the process...

It doesn't matter if it's for yourself or fame and recognition, our human nature will NEVER change..

Sometimes life experiences scares us and opens our eyes, makes us stop and think for a moment, some become more cautious, most don't, because the fear usually passes away..

But hey, what the hell do I know, take everything I say with a grain of salt.

I have read all the base news I could come over since 1980. I even had them on my wall. Carl is the only hero I had in my life as a kid.

I believe I learned something on the road 8 years before I did my first jump. First of all, I learned to have huge respect for wind, equipment, and the rescue personnel, also having the right skills for each jump. I can only talk for my self, but I know if I started today, I would search for any valid information to make my selves ready. Some of the high profiled jumpers would have been one of my heroes. I was really sad when Carl died, even i had never met the guy.

sure, some get to advance what humans can do and become heroes. the Wright brothers did exactly that. they designed the first wind tunnel, disproved much of the conventional wisdom, and studied their way to success. possibly more important than flight, they established a methodical approach to engineering.

amazing stuff.

now, who can name those who tried but failed?
how many died? do people care, or simply ignore that uncomfortable truth?
who honors these dead "innovators"?
(the Wright brothers looked at their deaths and realized they did not know enough and essentially started from scratch.)
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actually, the Wright brothers stifled the industry of flight for years with their narrow-minded greedy treatment of it. They didn't even tell people they'd flown for a couple of years while they attempted to nail down iron-proof patents on technology not even existent when they flew, and got into a pissy-fight with the Smithsonian after the institute published a report on an unmanned heavier-than-air flight that took place before they managed it.

There legal action against Glenn Curtiss, who actually knew how to build and sell airplanes, was only curtailed by the government compelling the two companies to merge once the war broke out, and it was Curtiss who was the more industrious and knowledgeable of the pioneers, developing technologies that actually made flying safer and easier, while the surviving Wright sat at home waiting for royalty cheques.

I've never met a jumper who jumped for someone else.

I had a girlfriend once who said 'it makes me horny to see you jumping that thing.'

So I went jumping for her a few times.....

Priceless

A look in the mirror would help
But even then, you were jumping for yourself.

Ronald

Sometimes saying nothing is enough Sangi. Absorb, this is a thread you should be thinking about, not commenting on, especially hypothetically.

You couldn't PM me her details, could you?

I think it is commedable that they remained silent initially. It shows they weren't into bragging, boasting, or posting on youTube. They did not want to encourage the enthusiastic but unprepared.

As far as the rest... they had every right to protect their intellectual property, just as today's photographers want to protect their copyrights. Disputes quickly turn messy and ugly.

Of course, you are welcome to your view...

x2 hahahha was pissing myself while reading..

was she saying Your the one

You forgot "bored"

fact is, it extends to all facets of life. My dear old friend skypunk, Lee Werling, pushed limits in basejumping as like he said"it's always worked out before". I was always scaredshitless to get in a car with him. He would have died behind the wheel had base not pulled him down. It's a personality trait, call it a congenital anomaly, I call it a congenital blessing.

Have had some friends like that and once
in a blue moon even felt like that... good
post man, thanks for sharing.

I think it is commedable that they remained silent initially. It shows they weren't into bragging, boasting, or posting on youTube. They did not want to encourage the enthusiastic but unprepared.

As far as the rest... they had every right to protect their intellectual property, just as today's photographers want to protect their copyrights. Disputes quickly turn messy and ugly.

Of course, you are welcome to your view...
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I think you need to read up on your history.... It had nothing to do with saving the lives of people, or not wanting recognition. They wanted to establish a monopoly the way people like Bell did with the telephone, Edison with electricity, etc., Ford with the moving assembly line (although Ford did not patent his ideas or try to stop anyone, even competitors, from using them).

During the time they kept quiet, they had stopped trying to further their technology and were attempting to patent the ideas of control, and indeed held back other people who disagreed with paying licence fees for something they'd developed on their own (in Europe, for instance). Henry Ford even gave Curtiss legal assistance in the lawsuit, it was such a blatant abuse.

As for their not seeking the limelight, they boycotted the Smithsonian Institute for over twenty years, sending the Wright Flyer to England for display, because the Smithsonian had printed an article about the first heavier than air flight, Sam Langley's unmanned Aerodrome Number 5,. which flew half a mile in a minute and a half in 1896....

Read up on my history? Why? I fail to understand your point. Once people seek publicity, a whole new dynamic enters the fray. Heck, many must use publicity to finance their pursuits.

Yep, a ton of politics swirled around at that time. I never claimed the Wrights acted altruistically. Some can say they acted to protect their investment. Others can say they acted to protect their intellectual rights. Fine. Is that wrong? Look at the thread regarding Jason and the BD photos. Do you think he should happily just give them away? Should patents and copyrights mean nothing?

I'm familiar with the history of the Wrights, as are you. We seem to interpret the meaning of the facts differently.




for the record...
Langley's Aerodrome 5 was launched by a catapult and was unmanned.

Langley was Secretary of the Smithsonian, functioned an a grandiose scale, and sought government funding. (In many ways, he symbolizes the waste, abuse, and ineffectiveness typical in so many governmental programs...) Technically, he failed to understand how to scale up his designs. (a quick background)

Ok, my point was this. Robibird suggested some of the best die because they are working to expand the activity, placing themselves on the edge of our experience and knowledge.

You didn't accept that and pointed to the Wright brothers as examples of people who advanced flight without killing themselves.

My point is, after their initial flight, the Wright brothers did very to little to advance aviation, and indeed hindered its development with their lawsuits and licencing, etc. Orville gave up flying to enforce his patents and pursue his lawsuits full-time, and the US aviation industry was years behind by the time the First World War broke out, and was only able to recover because the government stepped in to end the arguments.

So they are not a good example of people that advanced a whole industry -- they indeed harmed it. People still would have flown - and advanced faster - if the Wrights had stuck to bicycles.

No need to fight over this number one. I am number one, you are number one, everybody is number one. Just because i am very close to being the one, doesn't mean you are not also very close to being the one. If I am good, does it mean you are not? If I do one thing you like, and you do one thing I like, should we not be celebrating together? Its impossible to compete with the whole world, let go.
I am very good and so is you, so lets be good together, no need for dying trying to impress.
Life is long and jumping is short.
Anyway, I carry the burden of being number one. So don't worry, let it go.

Yes indeed, I just got bored ... cut my yearly average down to 10% ;)

a friend of mine have a good motto written on the back of his helmet:
"i don't want to be the best, i want to be the oldest!"

i like to let him jump first............ i know it's cheating xD

"There's always going to be another mountain. I'm always going to want to make it move. Always going to be an uphill battle. Some times I'm going to have to lose. It ain't about how fast I get there...ain't about what's waiting on the other side. It's the climb!"
As sung by Miley Cyrus