Basejumper.com - archive

Why and How would it ever be OK to upload somebody elses videos? I mean... it's nice of you to ask on a forum but even if nobody responded to your post it's not your video. Period! What right do you have????

BS Once those videos are online that's it. Viral. There is not really any way to reverse that even if the copyright holder comes to you later saying WTF? I don't understand this mentality. It's disrespectful.

unfortunately, it is a VERY common attitude amongst people who create videos. (although not by all.)

how many video guys who use copyrighted music for their soundtracks (without seeking permission or providing compensation)?

how many video guys seek releases from their subjects? (DZ and BD waivers tend to secure this authority. it may not be required at all events either.)

at least in this situation...
- it's a 3 year old thread
- he located the copyright holder
- the copyright holder expressed their opinion

-huh? Please clarify?



-and? Because some people steal it's ok to steal from others??? What kind of logic is that? My car has been stolen before, does that mean it's ok for me to steal your car?




-The ones that need releases get them the ones that don't don't. I don't know what this has to do with uploading other peoples videos without there permission.


The actual and legal copyright holder took 3 years to see this thread and reply. Note his date. He also says that he is working on something. Wouldn't that suck to spend a couple years working on a project only to realize that somebody else has already uploaded all of your footage to YouTube without your permission!?!

Honestly... whatever! distribute pirated copies to your friends on DVD but don't put t on youtube!

This is a subject that I will never tire of speaking out about. It may make me unpopular but I don't care. I think that most people (especially nowadays)have no concept and don't even think about what it means to creatives when they steal footage. Yes! I said steal; If you put your heart and soul (and bank account) into capturing something on film and then somebody else comes along and acts like they have a god given right to distribute your footage without your permission it is EXTREMELY extremely frustrating!

>> Note his date. He also says that he is working on something<<

Small point. "He" is a She . . .

Marah is Mike Allen's niece. Mike worked for a video production company (besides videoing BASE and skydiving) in Florida in the 80s. I visited the studio where he worked and they had the first professional "video toaster" I ever saw.

It's not too much of a stretch to say Mike died for his videos. He was killed in a head on collision with a tractor trailer while traveling between drop zones.

He was a great guy . . .

Leave his work alone, please . . .

NickD

you seemed to miss my point entirely. I never condoned stealing of someone's work.

violating copyright is not acceptable.
it matters little if the copyright is for a video, or for music.

strangely people like you never seem to cry foul over infringement of music copyrights. you only seem to get bent over infringement of video copyrights. where are your complaints about music copyright infringement?

your silence about music theft gives the impression you condone it.

I find them equally problematic and have said so more than once.

I received a lengthy PM from Bryan S. he believes he is the proper copyright owner, not Marah.

I have no personal opinion.

NEITHER Marah nor Bryan wish the video to be released on the internet. so, everyone should Mike Allen's work alone.

Violation of copyrights extends to many more creative works than just video or music, by you not mentioning those are you condoning the theft of those properties?

Yes, I think I remember Bryan's name on some of Mike's early vids.

Although I'm not sure I ever met him so he doesn't come to mind readily . . .

NickD

I don't condone stealing music. I don't steal music. I don't put pirated music on any videos that I edit. I use the term "Creative" to encompass ALL CREATIVE ARTISTS and their respective works. This thread is about a video. The last thread I commented on was about a photograph. When somebody makes a post about stealing music then I will comment on that as well.

If YOU have a problem with Pirated Music wwarped when why do you allow people to post videos to BJ.com with pirated audio? I have better things to do with my time then go through EVERY single video on Youtube and comment on musical piracy. I am standing up for what directly affects me. When you see me post a video on youtube with pirated music then feel free to call me out. Until then. Well... Your pulling your reasoning out of your ass and your post reads like a small child's retort.

I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT THEY HAVE RIGHTS TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH ANY ARTISTIC CREATIONS OF OTHER PEOPLE's work. I myself am a photographer not a musician so it is the posts about photos and videos that get me worked up (and I have yet to see one about music). I'll leave it to the musicians to fight for their rights and I will busy myself fighting for what directly affects me.

Why you take this issue SO personally warped I do not understand...

have respect please! Thanks!

...and if you have a problem with pirated music then why don't you go ahead and remove all videos from BJ.com intead of bashing me.

What about Genocide, Rape, Assualt, water-boarding, animal testing, GMO's, etc. etc. I haven't mentioned any of that stuff either in my posts. Does that mean I condone it?


SO. Do something about it. Put your money where your mouth is and remove the audio from all the videos posted on BJ.com except for the ones with usage licenses. oh wait. bj.com benefits from pirated material doesn't it?

OR ARE YOU JUST BLOWING SMOKE OUT OF YOUR ASS?

 

wrong. My post is about the prevelant attitude of taking creative work that does not belong to you and posting it on the internet and/or distributing it as if you own it and have the right to distribute it.

The fact that this post is three years old and the copyright owner just now noticed the original post just adds weight to my argument. If you did not shoot it or purchase the rights to it DO NOT distribute it unless you have permission! simple.
(Buying a print or a DVD does not count as purchasing the rights to it either!)

Vintage footage is just as valuable as cutting edge footage. It's all about fulfilling a client's needs. If some bozo posted your footage all over the net then the value is reduced.
Believe it or not their are actually people who make a living with creative works through licensing specific rights to certain people. Copyright IS BREAD AND BUTTER to some people. Respect it please.

You assume way too much. I lack any authority when it comes to videos. You have as much power over videos on this site as I.


if you read my posts, you'll see I agree.

remember, this started with your little rant...

yes it is disrespectful, and illegal.
I tried to point out that if you want to "understand this mentality", you might wish to check with your fellow video people who don't play by the rules! Maybe they can explain the mentality to you.

you obviously seem to be missing all my points!

but if you feel better yelling at the dude who has never visited the "music sharing" websites such as Napster or Pirate Bay, go for it. I can take it. I fail to see how it helps a cause we agree on.

gee...
let me think.
maybe I ought to re-read what I wrote...


wow. I got no clue what I could have possibly meant there. how embarrassing. my bad.

Try again.

You continue to bitch and moan about why Cloudtramp doesn't complain about music copyright infringement as if you have some stake in it.

He makes a point about not stealing other people's work and you jump right in with the "what about the music copyright infringement?"

If you have no stake in losing profits and you claim you don't violate the copyright law, what do you care if he wants to preach about not stealing people's work and his medium of images and film.

What's embarrassing is you dramatizing the situation with your "what about the music?" for no other reason then to argue with Cloudtramp who does have a vested interest.

Do you have any relation to Mike Allen ?
any legal standing in his estate ?
any relation to any of the alleged copyright holders ?
any relation to BASE jumping ?
any relation to skydving ?

If you answered NO to all the above questions, then answer this one :

What are you doing in this "General BASE" forum ?

well. she's posted some pretty interesting and enjoyable interviews of BASE Jumpers for this forum and in the process has contributed some positive and original content to this forum so i'd say that yes, that would be considered a relation to BASE Jumping. Whatever your feelings toward her online persona may be.


YES. She is a writer and therefore a creator of original material which gives her a vested interest in regards to respecting another artist's right to control how their material is distributed.

My posts are not about Mike Allen's estate specifically. I am just trying to shed light on the fact that people who create original artistic content in any form deserve at the very least the right to choose how their respective work is distributed to the public. Period.

thank you.

I am just going out on a limb, but I bet if she interviews non-base jumpers we would not care much. In other words it's what was said by the people interviewed, not so much who interviewed them which caught our interest. Thus I respectfully decline to give her too much credit.


That does not show relation to the alleged copyright holders. What original material has she created ? She re-stated the answers that some BASE jumpers have given her (last I checked statement posted verbatim are credited to the source, not to the person who pasted them), and copy and pasted some comedians articles. She did bitch and whine about mistreatment on this forum, but I hardly call that original.

I would much rather have her answer my questions, than argue with you, cloudtramp.

Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) is an illness that causes people to have unwanted thoughts (obsessions) and to repeat certain behaviors (compulsions) over and over again.

Cloudtramp: Please ignore him. He is obviously suffering from an obsession. He has become delusional in the sense that he believes himself to hold an importance that myself or anyone else for that matter should answer his questions. Or that anything he says carries any weight at this point, argh, the constant whining, when will it stop?

The word "creepy" doesn't even begin to describe his obsession with commenting to or about me.

I know I am bored with him and suspect the rest of you must be also. What was it Spiderbaby said, "save the drama for your mama".

I thought I'd separate the drama from the meat of the original post.

anyone that searches for Mike's work ought to find a clean thread that states that the work should NOT be posted. and yes, that should be the standard, default position.

Original Thread

Wow.

Just wow.

I mean...seriously?

I offer an experiment in true obsession...

Vid666...meet me in the BLiNC private forum. You should have gotten an invite from the mods.

Watch this.

Just out of curiosity TLN, I'm pretty sure the work wasn't copyrighted but did you give credit to the author when you copy/pasted the beginning of your article on the World Base Race? I know you had that plastered up on some associatedsomething.com website and made it CLEARLY known that you were representing that as your own literary work without giving proper credit to the author you stole it from, no post script reference, nothing. I'd suggest that if you aren't going to do that maybe you should stay out of the conversation and have your dad bring you some toast (wheat) and egg whites for breakfast along with your medication. I hear that this is good brain food and might help you become more creative.

oh god. here we go JIHAD!!!!

back to my point i reiterate. If you receive footage/photos/music/whatever from a friend then just ask them first before printing, uploading, or otherwise distributing said creation to make sure it is cool with the creator/owenr (in BASE it will be cool 99% of the time). If you do not know the creator or cannot reach them for some reason then enjoy it for yourself and don't distribute it. Simple. Thank you

The root of the problem is technology; it allows any hack out there to cut & paste other peoples material, whether it's music, video, or the printed word, and disseminate it via the world wide web for mass consumption. It allows everybody the illusion of "creativity".

I think that the root of the problem is a general lack of respect and just plain ignorance. Most people just don't realize, some don't care. Technology is just a tool that accelerates and aids the process of redistribution.

But I remember you Nick. Mike would talk fondly about his late nights talking with you on the BASE forum and he'd tell me to get an online account so I could get involved. In the 1980's other than work I didn’t have a computer to participate, wish I did in those days.

Be well,
Bryan

Bryan S is a good FL guy
with lots of parachute time!

>>But I remember you Nick.<<

Well, it's never too late - so let's hook up.

Next time I'm in Florida, or the next time you're in California - we'll do it!

NickD