Basejumper.com - archive

Just like Wwarped and others pointed out this
shit belongs in a different forum, so here is
a new thread for more of the same old shit...

Here is my only comment:

Does anyone else think it is fucking ironic that a kid
from the UK, as in United Kingdom, which was once
known as the British Empire with the slogan the sun
never sets on the British flag, is ragging on the USA
for meddling in the affairs of another country?!?

ha ha aha ah ugh sob


PS: no disrespect to BASE jumpers from the UK

I really don't care about his world view but the fact that he was trying to badmouth soldiers annoys me. Have to deal with that kind of people everyday... "War is bad and because of that soldiers are the worst people yadda yadda yadda." and stuff like that coming from someone who never even served in the armed forces...

I agree that criticizing soldiers for a war is stupid.
Politicians, Leaders, Dictators, etc. declare war.

However, having not served does not preclude
one from enjoying the rights soldiers gave us,
such as freedom of speech.

Nope, but in my opinion not having served takes away your right to judge soldiers motivations about fighting for and supporting each other.

And who signs up voluntarily and follows those orders?

And who follows their orders?

Not sure I get your question but here goes:
-President/Leader Sets Foreign Policy
-Congress Ratifies A Declaration of War
-Generals Determine Strategies
-Colonels/Majors Execute Missions
-Soldiers in turn follow orders

So yeah, shit rolls down hill & always has.

Blaming a soldier for a dumb war is dumb.
Blaming a soldier for stealing, raping, etc.
well that is totally valid and makes sense.

I'm more of a blaming the whole military body for doing what they do...

And to be honest, as far as I know in US military service is voluntary, you don't have to sign up if you don't want to...

I never supported wars and I never will unless it's self defense from a DIRECT attack on your country...

No comment regarding the irony I mentioned?

Well I'm not originally British, I just study here...

The British Empire is gone now and people shouldn't follow that and try do similar things again, I do not support invasive imperialism or world policing...

I come from a country that was once known as savage vikings. plundering and raping whatever and whoever we saw. At least we (and the British) have grown up and realized that it's not the right way to act in a modern society.

How about :

Judging all the citizens of the country based on the actions of those (idiots) who are in charge, and then in turn passing that judgment on to single individual(s) is ignorant.

Writing up some political bullshit in what is essentially an obituary thread is an asshole move, especially considering that the deceased has died due to said political bullshit.

Sangi,

-Maybe you would feel differently if you lived in a country that wasn't free?

-Maybe you would feel differently if you lived in a country where you couldn't access networking sites/forums and limited what the public sees?

-Maybe you would feel differently if you lived in a country where it would be illegal to speak your mind the way you have the past couple days?

If you lived in a country such as what i describe...would you still feel the way you do?

Or would you be wondering why no one is coming to your aid?

If you were crossing the street one day with some friends and saw someone getting mugged, and you were in a position to do something about it, would you? What if you were the one getting your ass kicked? Would you want someone to come to your aid?

How about this analogy....

...you want to learn to basejump...

...FIGURE IT OUT YOUR FUCKING SELF...

We are too busy staying alive ourselves.

But some people still haven't grown up and realized that...

Why do young people join the military? When they see the propaganda filled videos of soldiers shooting up blowing up shit, showing off their awesome military power and technologies for example, what comes across their mind first? Do you think they say to themselves "I'm going to liberate those poor people from old savage way of life, help them establish democracy; I'm going to stop the genocidal atrocities etc etc..", no, he thinks "oh shit, I want to drive that tank, fly that jet fighter, shoot that awesome machine gun, blow up that shit, it looks so cool and I might even be a hero doing that!".

Do wishes of helping some foreigners they will never really know or care for conscripts these young men to military? I don't think so, it seems more that the "fun" of war that conscripts them, the young burning enthusiasm to kick the "bad guys" ass and be the "hero"...

Yeh you forge powerful bonds with your fellow soldiers, you will risk your life and might sacrifice yourself in order to save them.. But what are you really fighting for, why are you fighting? Are you fighting just for the sake of fighting, just cause it's fun and just to be their for your fellow soldier when he gets in trouble?

Now concerning the political agendas.. I like to believe that what those men and women are really fighting for (outside their home) is the politicians whims of expanding their influence around the globe.. Do you think those fat bastards at the top of the pyramid really care for the good freedom interests of those "poor" third world country people? They're more likely to use that as an excuse to try and settle their own influence in foreign land.. A good example would be post second world war Germany.. Yeh it's all cool and good that USA, Britain and Russia helped defeat the fascist regime, helped restore democracy to the country and bring good hope for the people, but the true reward was the influence over Germany after the war, the division of the country between the Allies (USA, Britain and Russia) and the ability to impose their influence on those regions afterwards... It's good, it's profitable..

You think the politicians don't think the same way about Iraq for example? Yeh they will shade their true intentions with the hope of bringing freedom and democracy to the terrorism and fear run down country, but the true benefit will be influence they will have after they have helped win that "freedom" and "democracy" for them.. I mean look at all the oil the middle east region holds.. Who wouldn't wanna get their hands on it these days, specially when at these consumable rates it's going down fast worldwide and USA is very very very dependent on oil...

So they send the poor brainwashed soldiers into thinking that they will be heroes, cause they're going to help these poor foreign people achieve freedom, defend their own country from terrorism (those soldiers themselves thinking it's going to be heck of a fun to kick the bad guys asses with their friends, try out the new cool toys that they were given and be for them there if anything happens, maybe save a friend, get a medal, be a hero), while actually in the very truth they're going to be fighting for after war influence over the region, which could massively benefit USA.. Off course the real benefits of this would only come after the victory of imposing "freedom" and "democracy" would be achieved, but it seems at this rate it's not going so well for the americans and it might be a pretty long while to achieve that goal, if at all possible...

As far as I know, in USA you don't shoot the intruder unless he is in your house, so you wouldn't be punished for criminal murder.. Maybe you should apply this thing in foreign affairs world wide, meaning don't shoot at someone (invade / declare war) until he brakes right into your house (country), also if someone days brake into your house, know full well and be sure at what exactly you are shooting at.. Again, more countries should take example from the neutral Switzerland IMHO.

Yes I know I'm going to make a lot more people hate me right now for what I have said, you will say I don't know jack shit cause I never served, you will find millions of reasons to deny any statement I made and so and so on... But I personally feel pity when people die for selfish political reasons and because of in a way their own stupidity...

Make love, not war. Peace.

Actually I did (for 3 years). It was named the USSR aka The Soviet Union (lived in one of the occupied Baltic countries named Lithuania). Well I can't really remember much, cause I was 3 years old when it collapsed, but I had first hand stories from my grandparents and parents told about the life in USSR... And weirdly, nobody came to aid us for like 50 fuckin years, until we finally managed to free ourselves...

 
We have learned lessens over the years. There was a time when we had become dissalusioned and many of us thought that we should follow your advice and "mind our own bussiness." Sence there are several europens on here maybe you can help me out, never great in history, what was the first country Hitler invaded? How many fell before him one by one before the larger powers decided to "step in and meddle." Lets say the US decided to mind it's own bussiness. How much longer do you think England could have held out with out the massive suport we sent to her? If Britton had fallen and we lot the stageing area for an invasion do you think Hittler could have ever been thrown back. With only a single front I think the eastern border would have stableized and the world would have had to accept them as a new super power. I'd say Norway is lucky it's not soluteing a natzi flag right now.

There will always be somme one out there bigger then his naibbor. I wish we didn't wind up in the middle of these things. Life could be so much easier here. But some times you have to stand togather and do what's right. Be gratefull for the people that are willing on both the indevidual level and collectively to stand up and be counted.

Also it seems to me a good bit of this problem is that we weren't involved enough. There was a time when if we had taken a longer view Afganastan could have turned out to be a very diffrent place.

Lee

 
By the way here in Texas we have something called Castle Law. It defines a lot of these things like when you are justafied in shooting some one. It was recently expanded to clarify some things. They don't have to be in your house anymore.

Lee

true, and I wonder about people desperately seeking to BASE jump! why? because of videos that only show successful jumps?


I'll agree.
it's shocking how politicians can abuse soldiers.
it is not right.

BUT... some really good stuff can happen along the way as well. look throughout history and you'll see most wars are for conquest, religion, punishment, or a combination thereof. Romans, the Khans, the British Empire, Germany, the Soviet Union, etc. all used their armies to build empires. they used their troops to cease territory and rule it.

since WWII, I can't think of any significant region where the US military has taken control and refused to leave. the US military typically wants to go home. it really seems odd compared to most of history. when has a country so often wanted to return conquered territories to those they conquered?


o.k. let's look at the Swiss model.
historically. they had more manpower than available work. thus they sent their men off to be mercenaries, fighting other people's battles.


so the Swiss found a way to profit from neutrality. they simply pander to ALL sides. their banks have famously used numbered bank accounts. it means the banks did not need to fret about where the money came from. they'd open accounts for mass killers!

they make their country so cooperative with everybody that it is in nobody's best interest to invade. the mountains mean it would be a bloody battle, and for what?

so what do you admire about the Swiss neutrality anyway?

(don't get me wrong, I've met plenty of fascinating Swiss people. BASE has benefited from their viewpoints. and Switzerland has a role to play in international politics. I just don't think it is a viable model for everyone.)

First and foremost: We do, and have always, been deeply grateful to what the Allied forces (with the US as the main contributor) did for us and many other countries during WW2.

When that's said, you can't seriously say that you don't see a difference between fighting back on an invading force (like Hitler) and attacking a country like Afghanistan on the other side of the planet?

The American foreign politics have always been about American interests, and not about "helping out poor countries". If US was so helpful and kind, why would they overthrow so many democratic elected governments in order to impose dictatorships more "positive to American interests"? Iran, Chile, Guatemala and Congo comes to mind.

The US has also been very supportive to plenty of other dictatorships as long as they benefit the US. Like Iraq (in the 80s), Philippines and Cuba (during Batista). Several of these actions is coming back haunting the US now (as both the people ending up as the Taliban, and Saddam Hussain, were funded and trained by the US in the 80s).

US has done several good things throughout the history as well, but when Americans try to pretend that the US is a country only looking out for the best for everyone and not thinking about their own interests, then they just show that they haven't read their history good enough.

Edit: Well said johenrik.

As far as I remember it was Austria, that was first occupied by the nazis (in 1938), however the war didn't brake out then, only in 1939 when Germany invaded Poland. Then Britain, France and Russia had declared war on nazis..

Anyway, all the info about WW2 is on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_war_2

Concerning the WW1 and WW2 cases I'm inclined to agree with you Lee, USA help was needed. But where do you see Afghanistan, Iraq invading other countries now? How can you really justify US invasion? Terrorism, nuclear weapons? No nuclear weapons and terrorism is wide spread all over the world, it is not secluded only in one or two countries which by invading you would stop all together..

Yeah, you helped defeat the nazis in WW1 and WW2, but if not by them, the eastern Europe got occupied by the soviets, no we didn't willingly join them and we were not commies at hearts, you can read the history on various sources, we did in fact try to defend (it continued during the ocupation) ourselves, but we were outmatched (in terms of army size and armament) by the soviets..

And no, you didn't come to help us (when I'm sure you knew all the truth), because you didn't want to fuck with a such a big country like Russia who had nukes (you were afraid off course of the possible nuclear war), for a couple of measly countries freedom.. But now, the mentality that "we are bigger" lets you invade such countries like Afghanistan and Iraq (in the past Korea and Vietnam), because you are not afraid of them, they don't have nukes, better military power, they are smaller, so they can't really pose any huge direct threat, yet you still struggle fighting there...

Everyone joins the military for different reasons. For some its patriotism and "doing your part" for others the military is a way to dramatically improve their lives given the benefits they receive and the situations they are exposed to.

Personally, I've always had a problem with actually giving a shit about the rest of the world and signing up was the best way for me to be given real responsibility and experiences at a very young age compared to my peers. While most of us have not deployed yet, within a year many of my classmates at the Academy and I will be legally in charge of 30 something soldiers and millions of dollars worth of equipment most likely in an active combat zone such as Afghanistan. Our average age at that time will be 23-24 years old. Regardless of the politics, it's hard to find a job more challenging or rewarding than that coming right of out of college.

As far as being "heros", I've never heard anyone in uniform or any veteran admit to thinking of themselves as being a hero. We are just trying to do our jobs in often times really shitty circumstances. Sure, some people enjoy killing...but statistically this is only roughly 2% of the population and most people I know would prefer to never have to fire a shot in anger.

Concerning your distrust for politicians and the "fat bastards at the top" I wish I could tell you that everyone in charge and making decisions in the United States Government was there solely to serve the best interest of the people and the good of humanity...but we both know such a statement would be complete bullshit. Still, given the amount of political and social freedoms we enjoy in the US (and most everywhere in Europe) I firmly believe our government is still better and more trustworthy than most of the rest of the world. And it is precisely because people are allowed to openly question without fear that we are able to keep things that way. Sure, my country has made its share of mistakes in the past and will no doubt continue to make more in the future. Relative to other governments in the world, it isn't doing too bad of a job but still needs to perform a lot better in the future. I won't get into the nitty gritty politics because that just isn't my place at this time.


I don't hate you and I'm sure you know a little more than jack shit. If I end up dying in Afghanistan or Iraq or any other combat zone it will be because I chose to be there and I will be fighting for the people next to me and hopefully the chance of a better future for those who have to make their lives in these places long after the policies change and we move on. In the same way if I end up dying on a BASE jump it will be because I chose to make that jump in those conditions. Life involves risk and choices, that's just how the game is played. Do what you can with it while you've got it.

I only wish it was that easy.

Peace...eventually,
Brian

Yeh you got a point in most of what you written there...

The world will never be the "perfect" place..

I do see a diffrence. Hitler never attacked US soil, Afganastan did.

I'm not saying that these actions were not self serving. What I'm saying is that all of our interest are intrerconected. I don't think any one would or could fight a foren war on some one elses behalf just for fun. It's too big. It's too much. But what we have come and are comeing to understand is that our interest are intertwined with the fatesof all these nations.

Let's take a look at some of your examples.

I really wish we had taken a harder stand when Cuba fell to the comunest. Allowing that to happen is one of the greatest mistakes we made. Look at the suffering, poverty, and human rights violations that have been going on there for the last forty years. If we'd nipped it in the bud the world wouldn't have wound up on the edge of nuclier war. And if you think it's so great there why do boat loads of refugies show up in Florida every week begging to come to the US?

Africa. Another good example. Look what has happened as the larger powers turned their backs on these nations. Cut the strings, give them self goverment, let them fend for them selves. Most of those countries haven't been stable sence the coloneal days. With out exception every one of them has been on a down hill slide sence they were granted there independence. I think it would be the best thing in the world for them is the other countries took a greater interest in that contenent. And as I recall it the US was not one of the big colonial powers there in Africa. Help me out here. Wern't those all europen nations.

I don't think you can talk about the middle east with out addressing the driving force that has shaped it for the last thousand years. Islam. Let's talk about Islam. Or first I'll make a couple of comments on religion in general, concentrateing mostly on monotheism. The Jews, the Christions, and the Muslems. Boy what a fucked up groop. Has anyone ever taken the time to count up all the wars these people are responceable for? I think I can argue that Monothism is the most destructive force the world has ever known. These groops absolutly hate each other. And the fucked up thing is they are all the same religion. They all clame to be worshipng the same god. No one preaches intolerance and hatered like a monothiest. Now back to Islam. I'm going to use the perfect example: India. I'm talking the bigger India ruled under the british empire. So they were given independence but there was so much bickering and infighting that they cut the country in half and said all you hindues go over in that corner and all you muslems you go over in that corner and stop touching each other, if you make me stop this car again your both going to get a spanking. Now lets look and see what the two children have built in their little countries. Remember they started dead level at the same time with no advantages. The only diffrence is the dommanent religion. We have Indea that is a riseing star in the world economy. A major player in high tec and IT. and on the other hand we have Pacistan home of terorist.

You know there was a time When the whole middle east was the cradle of civalization and knowlage. Then came Mohomid and the whole reagion has been hamstrung ever sence. Afganastan is a great example of the errors made in US foren pollicy in the region. We got involved in it just to stop comunest expansion. And yes we trained and tought and supported them in their fight against soviets that sought to crush them under their tank treds. Where we fucked up is in stopping there. If we had continued to be involved perhaps it would not have fallen into the hands of religious extreamest. I challenge you to name a more fucked up country. And it's our fault. Not by our meddleing. Not from what we did but by what we didn't do. We failed because we following the path you advicate and minding our own bissness and look how it has come back on us.

The world is a smaller place then it once was. We are all of us tied togather. We can nolonger afford to turn a blind eye to issues across the globe and say they do not affect us. These countries have fallen into these straights by the very isolationest pollicies you are advocateing. I see all the things you speak of but I take away from them very diffrent lessens then you seemed to have learned.

Lee

 
Never came to help... Hmm trying to think how to respond to that. Yep they were ligetamently bigger then us. No we really couldn't just push them out of your country. There were in fact many people in the US that wished that we could do so at the time but we couldn't. I don't think any one in the world can say that we didn't do all we could. First at the barganing table then later supporting NATO. Ever hear of the Berlin airlift. We went right to the wire trying to protect western europe and the rest of the world from the spread of that sickness. I love that you bring up Koria, Vietnam, and Afganistan. Where we did every thing we could to help and fight for those people giveing them the help we wish we could have given your country. If you critasize us for not helping you how can you question our fight to defend these people from being crushed under the boot heel you had to endure for so long. And if we've failed at times at least we tried and if more countries had stood with us in Vietnam perhaps it might be free today.

Lee

Yeh I can agree you with there in a way as well..

America did do good and bad stuff and the shit goes on and on, the world will never be perfect, overall I like the US a lot, you got shit loads of great stuff there and I wouldn't refuse to live there anytime in the future, however the foreign policy most of the times needs a rethink

http://www.m90.org/...a_barrage_of_stones/

This does not represent the entire Middle East, as in most places it is completely unaccepted. However, you'll find stoning much more common in the Middle East then say... that ever so policing super power United States.

Sorry the world isnt as rosy and perfect as you would like it to be Sangi.

But dont ever post political babble in an area where people are paying their respects to the deceased.

Yeah, sorry about that, was kinda pissed that he had to die for the same useless political babble..

OK Sangi, come back when you've actually seen the real world. Then we'll have a big boy discussion. Until then, keep it real...I guess.

US got involved in WW2 after Japan, Germany's allied, attacked the US. Afghanistan as a country never attacked the US, they were attacked (and the gouvernment killed) because they didn't want to give you the leaders of Al-Qaeda. And and what way do you mean Iraq attacked you?

I have to admit you state some good points, but I still don't completely agree. I totally agree on everything you say about Monotheism. Religion can make people do very good things, but just in the same way it cause huge amount of problems around the world.

Although when you talk about Afghanistan and Cuba I get the feeling that you only look at half of the story. And you have not given any good reason for why such a "peace and democracy loving country" like the US would remove so many democratic elected governments.

Maybe so, but why didn't the US care before Castro took over. Cuba was still a dictatorship and the people in the country were not in a very good shape. The country went from one oppressing dictator to another, but the US only reacted to the second as he led a politics that was not as positive for them.


This is not correct. You got involved in Afghanistan to cause a war between Afghanistan and Soviet. See http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html for more info. I agree that big problems happened when the US lost interest in all the crazy soldiers they had trained and led in a ten year long war, but the biggest problem was that the US started this thing in the first place.


I never advocate that we should turn the blind eye to all other countries, rather the opposite. But I think helping out can be done in a lot better way than sending soldiers and bombing cities. No matter where in the world I travel I'm always amazed of how nice people are when you get to talk to them, and when people get the decent education and the ability to really think to them selves they usually make very decent choices. Educated people do rarely terrorist attacks or accept being repressed. The dictatorships in the world are usually countries with low level (no) education.
Schools change people, killing someones president doesn't.

freedom of speech.... yup... I serve and give up some of my rights to protect the rights of others freedom of speech.

as much as it sucks to hear someone bad mouth... its still their right, as long as it dosent infringe on my rights...

 
Yes Japan attacked the US first and that is when we got into the shooting war but even before that we were standing strong behind England doing every thing we could to prop her up. Japan an Natzi Germany were allies in the sence that they had parralel goals in totaly diffrent sphears of influance. We could have simple declared war on Japan and det with our own problems. Hittler was never a real threat to us. Now Afganistan or Alquida or the talliban I don't really make a destinction between all of them I can turn a die over and look at the diffrent numbers on all the sides but it's still the same diece. What ever you want to call them they did attack the US directly and I'd say they were more of a direct threat to us then Hittler ever was.

Iraq didn't attack us they attacked Kewate. The job was left unfinished then. Sadom remained as an unstable power and a threat to the whole reagion and yes to our stability as well through our dependance on oil from the reagion. Sadom had been a problem for years and there were only signs of it getting worse. If someone had stoped Hittler in Poland think of how much easier it would have been then.

I'm not sure what you mean about us not careing about Cuba. We had close ties with Cuba. We were involved with their economy. They were poor but if we had remaned open to each other I think that would have improved over time. There was a lot of US investment happening in Cuba before the fall. Look at Portarico as an alturnitive example. Or the bahamas or the Caymans. Cuba had problems but they could now be on the same track as these other more succesfull nations. I think that History has fully justafied the negative oppion we had and hold of Castro and his goverment.

As to the quote from the interview... I fail to see the contradiction. The country was slipping into comunisem. We suported their opposition. Yes it was a musslum country. No we didn't forsee how much of a problem that might become in the future. Yes it did become one of the front lines in that conflict but you will notice that the war was fought by the moshadeed or how ever you pronounce it, not by us. They did not want to be part of the soviet union. We stood by them.

Our failing there was in ceasing our involvement at the Soviet defeat we should have kept closer ties and sought to be a moderat influance in the country rather then letting it fall into the dark ages.

Involvement does not necasaraly mean invading armies. It can mean a lot of things. Economy, trade, open vesias alowing students to study, imagration, aid, schools and missionaries, etc. And yes it can mean influancing goverments policies or even the goverments them selves.

Nobody here wants another Cuba in this himasphere. Neather the people there nor any country around it has binifited from that. And haveing looked down the barrel of a nuclier silo from the range of 90 miles we have not been inclined to allow other countries to fall down into that pit. Don't be nieve. Yes we have tried to influance the development of other countries. we want them to grow up to be strong and stable. It's good for every one. On the other hand the soviets, vetnamese, others have worked just as hard for years to try to undermine the goverment of the US. The soviets pumped huge amounts of money into the comunist parties here in the US and in central and south america. Hochemen ran a huge campain here in america trying to undermine support for the war. That was one of his primary statagies.
We could have set back and let the soviets win be defalt all over central and south america but we chose to stand up to them and I think the people in those nations are the better for it.

Lee

Everybody's right and everybody's wrong. But I'll stick up for Sangi a bit . . .

We'd have to go back a few thousand years to figure out who first hit who over the head with a club to find any blame. And I think when they finally write the book on us Earthlings the conclusion will simply be - it was our nature.

In 1862 President Lincoln said, " We can succeed only by concert. It is not "can any of us imagine better?" but, "can we all do better?" The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present."

The blunder old Abe made there was it's not a stormy present. For us humans it's stormy all the time. I used to think God (I'm spiritual, but not religious, so this is a metaphor) made a big mistake by not endowing us with generational learning. Instead we, each of us, must learn the lessons of good and evil for ourselves and do it over and over again. But looked at it another way it's probably for the best. It gives us the opportunity to possibly attain greatness. And it gives us something to get up in the morning for, like I don't know, a better world?

It's easy to believe we are a very fractured society right now. But if there were 24/7 cable news channels in the 1800s even Ben Franklin would have made an ass out of himself. I always thought a saving grace for humans would be if Mars finally did attack. A common off world foe would bring us together like nothing else. But it would also be sad to see that conflict is universal. But the principal of Occam's Razor (the simplest answer is most often the truth) states that it probably is.

So that just means we'll have more work to do. In the meantime we have to deal with these issues in real time and in our real lives. And you have a choice. You can be "Gandhi" like and turn the other cheek. Or you can be "John Wayne" like and try to kill them all. The problem with both ways is we'll never run out of bad guys. So we can't kill them all and we don't have enough cheeks. So it becomes what can you live with it, and more so, what can you die with. I don't believe in a here-after. I'm more of a life's a chemical reaction kind of guy. But if I'm mistaken, and I find myself standing at the Pearly Gates, I've endeavored to get all my excuses lined up and ready to go.

The thing is my excuses are going to be lame. I'm a veteran and I hear all about this PTS stuff and we tell ourselves it's only the weak among us that suffer it. But that can't be true as too many of us have it. So you have to ask yourself why? It's not supposed to be murder when the other guy is wearing a different uniform than you. It's not supposed to be murder when it's a "lawful" war. It's not supposed to be murder when we all become little James Bonds and are duly licensed to kill. If you can live with it than cool. But as the years go by, believe me, it's going to become a bit harder. We have a marvelous ability as humans to come back from most things. You can become un-drunk. You can become un-stupid. You can even become un-hated. But once you take a life you can never come back from that. It's a done deal, or at least as done as we can possibly experience, or imagine. And, after a while, when the bands stop playing, no one carries that burden but you.

"What if they gave a war and nobody came." That was a mantra of my generation. But it was too simplistic. "Make love - not war." Was another good one, but again, I've lived with the same woman for 15 years and the love and war continues." But here's what scares me the most. I think most of us can realize what freedom is to us is also, rightly or wrongly, at least at the rank and file level, freedom to the other guy. It's the classic no-win situation. Unless we stop fighting limited wars. You'd think we would have learned this lesson from past wars like Korea and Vietnam. We could have just obliterated both those countries, but we went with a proportional response. It became the age of the half ass war. Bumped up to today's time I know we are killing villagers in both Iraq and Afghanistan who never even heard of New York.

It's easy to blame the current crop of politicos. And to me, I cringe when I see Marines building schools. We are shock troops. We come in, we kill every enemy we can find, and we go home. I mean we are so fucked up we can't even get war right anymore. And we are backing ourselves into a corner we aren't going to be able to get out of. And that corner, once some politico realizes there's no other way to win, might be to start dropping the A-bombs. I mean think about it. The Jewish-Palestinian problem, Boom over. The Middle East problem, Boom over! The Russians returning to Communism, Boom over! Sounds ridiculous but if we ever get to point when you can't get on bus in Pittsburgh without taking a chance of getting blown up, than watch out, brother.

And that brings us back to Sangi . . .

I'm afflicted, like most old people, even if we didn't want to wind up this way, with a certain disdain for the younger generation. You young-ins just don't get it. You will, but by then you'll be like me and it'll be too late to do anything about it. So thank God for Sangi. He came in here, into this little BASE sanctum and he asked us, "why?" And look at how we all reacted! He challenged us to explain BASE, and now he's challenging us to explain life. Good for him.

I understand the idea, "of we fight for the guy next to us." But I've come to also understand that the guy next to me is every other guy in the world . . .

NickD

Eloquent statement Nick.


Amen.

sounds like the begining of a folk song...

added:

found video of sangi
http://www.youtube.com/...v=7hJ4qKlO5uU#t=1m0s

i dont even know what to say on that one. wow.

Hail techno viking!

I dont think any human on this planet has a right to take someone elses life! Its crazy we fucking kill each other and find excuses why we do so! I would rather have people around me that think like Sangi, no matter how much it can hurt to listen what he has to say. I advice anyone to visit Auschwitz-Birkenau in poland, the stuff that happened there makes me sick and scares the crap out of me. I just cant believe that someone would even think about doing that to people! What is even more scary is how easy it was to make thousands of people think its a right thing to do. Nazis thought they fought for good reasons too...just like americans do in iraq...thats the sad truth, its easy to manipulate people to believe what you want them to believe....
Fuck fighting for "something" or "someone", fight for yourself...

it's ironic isn't it, we are fighting for ourselves and the preservation of the freedoms we as americans hold dear. do you know why the atrocities committed in germany during wwII scare you? because it can all to easily happen again. history inevitably repeats itself, the real flaw in humanity is our seeming inability to learn from it. or perhaps to even deny it ever happened.

i agree with you that no human being has the right to take another's life, but by the same token what right does anyone have to take yours? catch 22.

+1 for RiggerLee, his speeling may suck but most of his arguments are spot on. Especially the parts about everybody's fate being interconnected, monotheism, and on education being such a deciding factor in a nation's place in world politics.


By that strict definition, nobody ever had the right to stop Hitler, as it required massive taking and losing of lives. I don't think anybody will disagree with me when I say that he should have and could have been stopped earlier.

The problem is this: In a complex world with such fluid political dynamics, how can we determine which factors need to be 'nipped in the bud', and if so, how to do it? And how to follow it up? The truth is it's fucking impossible. I personally think the war in Afghanistan was justified, though it could have probably been prevented years ago if a congressional committee had agreed to send just a few million dollars of follow-up aid to construct schools and the like. The Iraq war was probably going a bit far. But who am I to say what alternate future these countries might have had?

Just like the kid at the playground watching somebody get beat up for milk money... All you can do is take whatever information you have and make a decision. It may come back to bite you in the ass, or bite someone else's ass, or nobody's ass at all. Or maybe a massive fight will break out and recess is canceled for everybody. Then your classmates hate you. Who knows!! Especially when practically nobody making the decisions (or sideline quarterbacking, or voting for that matter) has ever really been to the locations in question. No, Hillary, a 12-day trip to 7 African countries doesn't count.

Maybe we were better off when the world was larger and we weren't cramping each other's style? Perhaps we need to colonize Mars already so there aren't so many siblings fighting for their corner of the bedroom. I just think the world would be a much better place if people stopped judging individuals for the actions of their associated 'group' (country, religion, color, background)

All those fuckers out there who openly judge an individual they've just met due to their country's foreign policy are no better than the German citizens in WWII who were conned into hating their neighbors because they were Jews. If you hate anybody simply due to associations that are out of their control, you fucking suck. I've been guilty of this myself, so yes, I fucking suck. Such is human nature. People always have and always will make generalized assumptions to help understand the complex world around them. It's usually a useful and necessary ability, but it's probably also our biggest weakness as a species.

/.02

it's interesting that you created a new user profile to make your comments...what are you afraid of? you have just as much right to your opinions as i do to mine. albeit it doesn't seem you gave them alot of thought...


please re-read my post, you seem to have issues with comprehension skills.

Because I am new to posting on the forum, you ASSume I am someone else? How narrow minded of you. I have been reading this forum since last November, when a friend took interest in the sport. I didn't register until recently, but enough about me.

Let's talk about you avoiding the question of why you Americans feel you have a right to invade other countries without just cause.

Oh wait you are American, you can do what you want and again I say "Americans have learned nothing from Europe's past" as you strangle the middle east in an attempt to rule it.

Perhaps the lessons learned in Europe are too far in the past for you, look at the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan for a more recent history lesson.

Your reply was typical American, you have no answers, so you attack back instead.

Okay Mr. Scarlett, how about the response I posted recently? You probably skipped it because surely it must be typical American drivel.

That's one of the smartest things you have said so far. Instead, what you did do was supplied and trained lots of crazy people, pushed Soviet into attacking the country and let the country go to hell for ten years. The country might have been on the verge of becoming a communist country, but still more than one million people got killed in that war. When the war was over and the country destroyed you did nothing to help it out as it had done the job you needed them for. No wonder lots of people because of this felt back-stabbed by the US and felt they needed to "fight back" as they did in 2001. All wars are between one good part and one evil part. Unfortunately in all wars ever both sides believe they are the good part and the enemy the evil.

Again you only look at the potion of history that you would like to, and not the whole story. US did put Saddam in power in the first place and supplied him with plenty of weapons. You kept patting his back when he used biological weapons on his own, and when he attacked Iran. It was first when he attacked Kuwait you changed opinion about him. I guess by then he wasn't too happy about you anymore, after it was clear that you were actually supplying both Iran and Iraq with weapons during that war.

You have removed plenty of democratic elected governments and placed horrible dictators in command. It's not about "good for everyone", it's all about "best for the US". The problems you are having in Iraq and Afghanistan now are problems you introduced to your self because of bad decisions decades ago, but you still refuse to see that point and rather pretend to be the big world hero that defends the weak and make the world a better place. It's like someone bragging about how nice he was cleaning and picking up broken glass outside of some shop, while try to keep it secret that he was the one breaking the window and robbing the store.

The ironic part is that you don't even have freedom to base jump in the same way as we in Europe have. This forum is filled with threads about people being busted, have to sneak around to avoid getting busted, have to lie to the doctor about what happened if you get hurt and so on. We can't name sites here because Park Rangers are secretly reading our posts to figure out how to jail American base jumpers.

With the mantra "Land of the free, home of the brave" you would think you at least would be "free to be brave at home", but I guess not.

Very very good words there johenrik, spot on, couldn't agree more!

haha that's pretty funny...yeah we're a nation comprised of persecuted BASE jumpers : P

i'm willing to bet it's a pretty safe ASSumption, ms. scarlett.

I'm not replying at your post (didn't actually read your post) I'm replying to you out of laziness and now I feel it was a bad choice because I have to write all this paragraph. Laziness doesn't really pay does it? ... After 3 edits I can guarantee you guys that laziness doesn't pay ... make that 4 edits ... 5 now ..

I have a question to everybody on this forum:
If an al-qaida (whatever) terrorist would have done and enjoy B.A.S.E. jumping would he been welcomed or hated in this forum?

I mean he's probably forced to be terrorist against his will by extreme peer-pressure and life needs. Just like every soldier out there he's not lost in the game of "hate the other team soldiers", he does all that he does out of fear for his life and the life needs. He actually kills people with ... care for them ... if he can, because he doesn't really want to kill them ... he is forced to do it by extreme peer-pressure and life needs. In his free time, when he can be himself, he does B.A.S.E. jumping to escape from the life of shit he lives in. He didn't quite choose to be born in that place of the world where the peer-pressure is that extreme and the life needs are that hard to satisfy that you have to become a terrorist (just like everybody else). He makes the best that he can do out of his current shitty ride called life and he B.A.S.E. jump whenever he can ... and when he does it he's happy ... just like you guys are after you jumped and land!! He's an infidel and he knows it but he just can't show it! He is fidel(truthful) to himself only when he B.A.S.E. jumps!

Would you guys chat with him about techniques and rigging details or would you just hate him?

The actual terrorists who committed those acts were living in the states for quite some time, and their neighbors said they were "really nice people". Already having been located in the states for years before the attack, they had every option to disappear from their 'terrorist' life and start anew. Instead, they chose to stay the course because of religious beliefs and hatred. If they let peer pressure play so much of a part in it that it caused them to kill thousands of innocent people, then they were just weak, pathetic sheep in the first place without any strength to stand up and say no. But it's amazing what you can get people to do if you simply convince them that there are 72 virgins waiting on the other side.

I see the parallel you're trying to draw here, but I think it's pretty far off. Perhaps instead of 'terrorist' (mass murderer of innocents) you just meant 'opposing soldier'... some dude stuck in an army somewhere because they would feed him, and now he's shooting at the guys in different uniforms because he's told to. Edit to add: I get the feeling that most of those fighting on the other side are not in that 'stuck' group, but are rather in the 'brainwashed' group. And cutting off reporters' heads on camera is not exactly something the 'reluctant combatant' typically does.

as someone who attempts to keep the peace here, I can tell you BASE jumpers can turn on their own. it is not all joy and love between jumpers.

there is also a thread of some dude in Iran. he asked and received advice, and I believe from a US user. now I'm not calling the Iranian a terrorist, but let's face it, the US and Iran aren't the closest nations.

A one post catch all.

You really can't judge a whole country by 1 person.

I agree with LittleStranger, if I had to bet money,
I'd say Scarlett would be a female handle/avatar.

RE: teaching a terrorist or nazi to BASE jump

Hell as sketchy as I am it might be a good way to
rid ourselves of them -- ha ha. Seriously difficult
question. A group of either, no fucking way, one
of them who I bonded with, who I saw as a person
instead of their group, maybe.

72 virgins

I would prefer 2 or 3 women
who already know how to fuck.

I agree with you! I would prefer 2 or 3 womens or even only one that knows how to enjoy fucking rather than 72 wonder how! My thing is that I like womens and not just thier body, I like them to be happy!

The picture I've painted with the terorrist word is not the one I had in my head. In my head I was imagining a terorrist that hides & kills soldiers in Iraq and not the 24 kind of terorrist. My bad though I can see how it can be viewed like this

Wars don't last forever and personal relationships tend to outlive them. Of course I'd help him out...as long as he shows me a few nice exit points when I get a little R&R...

The only way to truly defeat an insurgency is to get everybody to join your side anyway.

Then you wake up the next morning, your money is gone, you drink the aftershave to stop the shakes and realize you're in hell.

72 virgins, an eternity should be long enough to teach them what they should know, but an eternity is also long enough for you to get bored of each other.

I like the little cabin on the beach at the bottom of the cliff. perfect waves and a magic carpet to go to the shop once in a while for some beer. From there it all just expands. And I just need one women with enough brains to realize that surely eternity can't just be about sex...

...There has to also be some cooking and washing up.

Eternal life would be absolutely boring... Imagine getting anything you want, knowing anything you want, you would get bored of that faaaaast...

Reincarnation with the memory loss of previous life is way more interesting and you never get bored!

> Reincarnation with the memory loss of previous life is way more interesting and you never get bored!

I agree with you, and to make this current ride believable you'll have to believe that you have only one life ... otherwise you'll not going to honestly immerse into this one.

Do two wrongs make a right? Why punish and kill more innocents?

Shall we assume the child in the fotograph would have grown to adulthood becoming a terrorist? Probably helps you sleep better at night thinking that way. Rather then assuming this child might have been a leader of peace in the region.

RAWA, May 7, 2009
Let’s rise against the war crimes of US and its fundamentalist lackeys!
RAWA Statement on Massacre of over 150 civilians in Bala Baluk of Farah Province by the U.S.


(Photos of Bala Baluk Massacre) (Report and Video Clip)

As the US occupiers continue killing our innocent and sorrowed people without regret, this time they committed yet another horrible crime in Bala Baluk village of Farah Province. On 5th May 2009, the US airstrikes targeted people’s homes, killing more than 150, mostly women and children. This is another war crime but Pentagon shamelessly includes Taliban as the perpetrators too and announces the civilian deaths being only 12!

The so-called ‘new’ strategy of Obama’s administration and the surge of troops in Afghanistan have already dragged our ill-fated people in the danger zone and his 100-day old government proved itself as much more war-mongering than Bush and his only gifts to our people is hiking killings and ever-horrifying oppression. This administration is bombarding our country and tearing our women and children into pieces and from the other side, is lending a friendly hand towards the terrorist Gulbuddinis and Taliban -- the dirty, bloody enemies of our people-- and holding secret negotiations and talks with such brutal groups.

While our grieved people are burying the torn bodies of their loved ones in mass graves; the traitor lackey Said Tayeb Jawad, in his comfort in the USA, tries to dim the war crimes of his masters and about the killings of civilians, shamelessly salts people’s wounds saying, “this is a price we have to pay if we want security and stability in Afghanistan, the region and the world.”!

If his or other ignoble spies like him would lose their children and dear ones like the people of Bala Baluk, would they still become so stone-hearted and remain silent in the face of US/NATO war crimes in Afghanistan?

The only way our people can escape the occupant forces and their obedient servants is to rise against them under the slogans of: “Neither the occupiers! Nor the bestial Taliban and the criminal Northern Alliance; long live a free and democratic Afghanistan!”


Your soldiers have raped innocent woman and girls, tortured prisoners and killed innocents in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, yet you act as though the terrorists are savages. How easily you turn from reality, when the truth is not want you want to see. Will their Christian God reward them?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/16/AR2006111601685.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwqcz308B9I

This whole thread, the world and human condition have become in a word: Hopeless.

> Shall we assume the child in the fotograph would have grown to adulthood becoming a terrorist?

No man, I don't see nothing good coming from exploring that possibility. I didn't read the rest because it made me feel that you *really* want to explore that posibility and project it onto the rest of the world. I choose to believe that the girl just wants to live happy like me (but in different ways) and not to hurt other dudes that did nothing wrong to her. Until and if reality will correct me I'll choose to see her like that. How about you?

Truth hurts most of the time..

I thought that WAS the goal of the US policy. Basically provide an environment where the locals CAN stand up and become a functional government.

The sooner the Afghanis do that, the quicker US soldiers can return home.

I like turtles.

Since we're talking about politics and warfare, here's some nice vids of boys in action...

Americans training for undercover taliban infiltration, seems like they're going all the way to make themselves believable as ones, they might even take some out while doing that and no one will ever know!

http://www.toxicjunction.com/get.asp?i=V4573

This is how americans make friends with the local younger population, I'm sure these kids will repay them fully in the future..

http://www.toxicjunction.com/get.asp?i=V4409

War is fun isn't it, yeeeeeehaaa! Don't forget to tape it, you might make it as a new Hollywood action star! (for someone who might not get what I'm mocking, it's their emotions, this is why young people conscript and what they expect to do, it's a game for them in a way)

http://www.toxicjunction.com/get.asp?i=V4075

Another productive and fun way to make friends with the local farmers...

http://www.toxicjunction.com/get.asp?i=V3210

I'm sure justice must prevail at any cost!

http://www.toxicjunction.com/get.asp?i=V1738

What'd ya know, war can be fun! I'm sure these people greet their freedom and democracy bearing saviors with open arms everywhere they come!

Peace

The statement is to "escape" and "rise up" against the occupiers, in this case the U.S. and NATO forces.

They are calling for the U.S. to leave their country or they will rise up against them.

Unless I am reading it wrong, they are telling us to get out.

The truth doesn't hurt, hatred hurts and it's coming from both sides.

 
OMG did you see that tank totaly mash that car! It went over it like it was nothing! It didn't even slow it down. It barely tilted to one side. then it went back over and it looked like it was cut in half. How much does an abrams weigh? That is it. That is why we will win. No one and I mean no one has cooler toys then us. We rock. I'll bet they felt pretty stupid standing there looking at the flat pancake of what was their car.

While I'm thinking about it, talking cool toys. I got to help build one. I built some recovery parachutes for a company that was testing a radar proxcematy fuse. I wasn't really supposed to know what it was for but it was all pretty obveous. It was a retarded sub munition. The main bomb breaks up way above the ground into submunitions with air breaks. Each munition has one of these fuses and each can be programed to blow from 1 to 50 m above the ground with an accercy of .5 m You can have half of then go off at 10 m to shoot shrapnal down into ditches and the other half blow at 2m right at head height. A whole rain of granades. It's gona be so cool. The ultament soft target cluster bomb. I am so proud of my fist chance to do "Soical Work" as my old professer called it. He built fireing cercits for nuclier bombs. When my bomb gets into the war look out. The rag heads aren't even going to have a chance. But as they say, enough about me. What about you? What do you think about me? Flame away, but I sleep well at night knowing I've help make the world a better place.

Back on target. I see an action over looking an intersection. Looked like they kicked ass. A couple of the other videos were slightly embarising. You know I never understood the whole ugle american thing till I went walk about in europe and saw how some of them behaved. Even to me, another american, standing there watching them they came across as asses.

I thought a lot about that later when the second Iraqe and Afganistan thing went down. This is some thing europens just don't seem to get. It's really weird but america is like one of the most isolated countries in the world. Yes, it's one of the most modern and conected countries in the world. But oddly that doesn't make us worldly. It's like it's all one way. Example. Have you ever seen an american tv program there in europe? In a movie I saw a guy in china watching old episodes of Bay Watch. Or american movies. Want to know how often that happons here? There is a japanines program where peope just make asses out of them selves on an obstcal corse. It's a big hit. People laugh there asses off. No one can understand a word but it doesn't matter. A few films, they generaly get lumped in with art films. Think one theoter per city rather then fifty. It's like we live in geographic and cultural isolation. We're big enough that we're self contained. so yes. When Americans travel they make asses out of them selves. And I have noticed that a good portion of the world hates us for that. But here's the rub. They should also fear us. That indiffrent cultureal isolation makes it very easy for us to behave very callusly. I do maintain that Afganastan attacked us on 9/11. No I do not make the destinction between them. I also say the world is better off with out Sadom. But to be honest there was more to that. No body really said it out loud but part of those escapades was just slaping back at the wasp that stung us. You can call it revenge if you like. But part of it was just showing the world why you don't pull a sleeping dogs tail. and the US was asleep but watch out cause that old hound still has some teath. It had been a while sence we really just stomped a country into the ground under our heal. and it doesn't hurt to remind people from time to time that there are still a couple of supper powers out there and what the word means. We ground sudams army under our tank treads just like that car. We killed them all and hardly lost a man too how many of them did we kill? It was an object lessen to the whole world of why you don't fuck with the USA. But I'm not sure you got it. I'm not sure you reallize what that almost came to. Do you realize how much support there was for dropping a nuke? Or a few of them. No shit a good portion, I think a solid majority would have supported the use of nukelier wepons. You should just thank god there was not a clearer target when that happend. I understand why the rest of the world hates us but what you some times froget is that you should be scared shitless of us and you should never, never fuck with us. Not because we're evil. We're not Hitler bent on world domination. You should be thankfull for that. But because we're so fucking indifferant. When Bagdad fell people here just sat around the tv chearing it like a football game. And that guy that tossed that flashbang on a whim... well on a larger scale that could just as easily been a nuke.

Backing up to another post. Little girl blown up. Yep. I have no doubt what so ever that we droped a bomb in her nabiorhood. Must have been pretty far away or it was a sucky bomb. I would find the latter embarising. They could have staged the whole thing. I wouldn't put it past them but it's probable true. I doubt they had to stage it. Was there a milltary target near there home? Was it off target? Even with modern guided munition we still miss some times. Yah I know it's embarising. What I will say is that there was or was beleaved to be some thing near there. We don't miss by a hundred miles. I really don't feel bad about it at all. What do you expect? It's a war and your at war with the US. We got the biggest bombs around. The term is collateral damage. An exelent example of why you shouldn't pick a fight with the US.

I'm going to tackle one more.
How do I feel about the enemy? Kind of Mixed. I'll try to put it in perspective. I don't think I'd have a problem with a member of the repubblican gard. Even some one that was really loyal to Sadam. I don't think I'd have a problem with a solder from the german army from ww2. I wouldn't even have a problem with some one who was a member of the natzi party. It was a political party. I think some one can be on the wrong side and still be honerable. I think I'd have issues with a prison guard from Alswitzs. Diffaculty with not killing him issues. It's hard for me to explane exactly where or how that line is drawn. One I can respect, even if he'd killed my friend, the other I can't. At some point the war can end for the first. The second is just... It's like he's died in the wool with hatered and evil. I guess there's a point where a human soal just become so twisted and ugle that I just can't see him as a person any more. It's like finding a scorpion in your house. You kill it. well just because. It is what it is and you just can't have something like that running around. If I saw a rabbid dog I would shoot it. I think I feel the same way about these terorist. Hatered is a desease and I do think there is a point at which it becomes incureable. And like the scorpion you just can't have some one like that running around. Best just to kill them

One other thought. A couple of nights ago I watched a movie called Paradice Now. It's about a couple of suacide bombers. It was ok, not great. They tryed to give you some insight and explane them to you. It was an obveous effort to humanize people that are judged more harshly then any one else on earth and to try and explane their motivations. Didn't really work for me. I spent half the movie laughing and the other half agast. By the end I was convenced that there are people out there with there heads so twisted around that the only answer is just to put o bullet between there eyes. The more I read and learn about Sheia Islam the more i think it is a cancer. No, need a better analagy, cancer isn't contagious and this shit is. I think this is a movie every one should see. Let me know what lessions you see in it.

There's another earlier post that I do want to respond to but I want to do some more reading first. and I'm tired.

Lee

So you think it's a great idea to crush someones car (which is their income and support) for a couple of pieces of wood they stole (omg so expensive, justice must prevail) while also showing off how your uber abrams can crush an old mercedes? LOL Fighting the intended enemy is one thing, but fucking with innocent civilians just for the kicks is a whole different story, not a way to make friends ya know... I can't stand it when you shield your true intentions with the whole freedom/democracy and justice thing, while you act like assholes in those peoples faces (what those soldiers did in those videos is terrorism, albeit in a different way), just proves that you're no better than the enemy you despise so much...

You were talking about that it's war and collateral damage happens.. It's not 20th century anymore, it's 21st century and weapons have advanced massively, there are missiles for example that are so precise and have such controlled explosions that they only destroy the intended target and nothing else around it, so don't bullshit me about the collateral damage, it's more of a don't giving a squat shit about civilians and pure carelessness...

No, Afghanistan did not attack you, the country didn't plan and execute the 9/11 attack, an independent, wide spread group called "Al Qaeda" did this, so you can't really justify your invasions based on this...

Again you're talking about Saddam, you were the ones that put him into power in the first place, you supported his war against Iran and when he found out you were double dealing (supporting Iran as well vs Iraq) he stopped listening to you, so then you got pissed and decided to go in and kill him..

It's funny you know, you saying that nobody should fuck with USA, while you're the ones that start the whole fucking with others thing most of the time and earn so many enemies world wide.. I smell a huge greatness obsession (just like the russians) surrounding your nation...

Just because you guys got nukes, they don't make you the ultimate world power.. Remember that 8 more countries have them as well.. As it is now you're clearly struggling in the middle east conflicts and victory is not seen to be near for you..

I do not know why you addressed your rant to me, but I will say that I find your words sad.

There is a difference between discussing geopolitical shifts brought about through war/conflicts and cheering on the notion of death & destruction. You appear to prefer the latter.

You should take into account that, we, the people of the U.S., mourn the loss of our warriors everyday. This is not a "cool" video game, it's reality.

Afghanistan was once a proud country with modern cities and a rich cultural heritage, now after decades of war, it has become a wasteland...hell on earth. In my eyes, this is nothing we as humanity should be proud of, no more then taking pride in the suffering of those caught in civil wars/conflicts throughout Africa.

For the record, Afghanistan did not attack the U.S., Al-Qaeda did. Which of it's "soldiers/terrorists" none were Afghani nationals. You can paint it however you see fit in your mind, but there is a distinction between the people of that nation, the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, and Northern Alliance. That is fact.

A fact that makes comprehending and fighting this war so difficult, the corruption and fractions imploding within. All while our military and politicians attempt to make sense of the chaos and search out the enemy that has declared war on not only the U.S. but the West and yes, war on the people of Afghanistan.

And no those videos Sangi presented do not represent the majority of our military personnel, but they do show a lack of humanity in some individuals who brought shame to the uniform they wear and the nation they swore to serve with integrity & honor. We should find no humor in taunting thirsty children as we find no humor in rape and murder.

War can cause soldiers to lose their moral compass, crimes against humanity should not be celebrated. Unfortunately, it is these images, these stories that are used to promote the hatred & recruit followers to the cause of killing infidels. They also over shadow the honorable efforts and humanitarian side of our warriors. Yes our military is powerful, our warriors skilled, but they are also men and woman with compassion and principals. Let us not forget those that maintain and uphold that ideal.

Cheer their strength of character in a world gone mad around them and their dedication to a job that the majority of the citizens of this nation chose not to undertake.

Yes Sangi, they volunteer to place their nation above their own lives, to follow orders dictated by politicians. Despite what evidence you and Scarlett produce, there still is honor in serving in our military and a justifiable cause to not lay down weapons.

I am moving on from this discussion as I find it "hopeless" and I have said all I care to on the subject.

Have you ever been in a fist fight?
By that I mean a physical altercation
taking place in reality and not online.

Once you start down the dark path, forever will
it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.
-- Yoda

Hopeless
-- Calvin19

Gender Disorder
-- Marina

Focus
-- Slade Ham

Just when I thought quoting was your strong suit, you impress me:


Very good message and well written, I agree, thank you.

Yes, but what does it have to do with this discussion?

what does it have to do with this discussion?

I will explain.

Often one will start something with a certain plan or intent
but once "in the mix" things can quickly get out of hand
due to adrenaline, emotion, and a change of perspective.

After years and years of being involved with Martial Arts,
Skydiving, and BASE jumping I have watched myself and
many others loose their cool, go further than intended, etc.

It happens.

I did not watch any of the videos you posted but was pretty
confident of their content and the responses made by Lee
and Tizzy indicate I was correct.

Have you ever watched Apocalypse Now?
Ever talk at length with someone who has served in combat?

I have never served in the military, never hit first in a fight,
and want peace as much as you BUT after visiting the war
museum in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam (formerly Saigon)
I know I would have had ears on a chain around my neck.

Sad but probably true.

Keep in mind, just as it is easy to watch MMA or BASE and
think "oh that's easy" or "he should have done this" it is a
lot different to be the one in the shit.

Ok I see your point and I agree with this (experienced it).


Indeed, I will agree with you on this thing as well, however it is our duty as evolving beings to learn to control these primal instincts, specially in wide scale politics, where you actually have time to think, before you act...

You have some very good points here and I totally agree. War do horrible things with people. More than 70.000 Americans apparently got PTSD the few hours on 9.11. Imagine how people living in war for years are traumatized.

What annoys me is posts like what Ghetto had earlier in this thread. He uses the situation where a reporter got it's head cut off and uses this as a way to tell how horrible all the soldiers on the Afghan side is. This is of course a very horrible act, but I'm sure he don't believe all American soldiers are horrible just because some of the bad acts some of them have done.

The Afghan soldiers are just as traumatized as the American, maybe more. American soldiers can leave the country after a while to go to recover, but people with war in their own country are stuck.

In general I believe people are more a like than what many people like to believe. I would love to believe that all soldiers on both sides are as reflected and intelligent as UG6 seems to be from his post earlier in this thread, but I'm sure there are bad apples in both baskets.

As you say, shit happens in a war. We should try to understand it, and do what we can to avoid it, but not accept it. No matter which side it comes from.

Those posted videos weren't of 'wide-scale politics'... they were actions made by individuals with the same human flaws we all have. Imagine the frustration of watching a few of your friends get blown up by an IED that may have been planted by the same children begging you for water the next day. Perhaps in that state of mind you'd do the same thing. War is hell, as they say. Luckily, I wouldn't know first-hand because there are enough people like Brian Woods out there willing to go get their hands dirty in my stead.

People who you, Sangi, would rather paint with the broad brush of 'thug' or 'terrorist' without ever having met them and then condemn them publicly after their death, in a memorial thread no less, with no basis of proof. By making such an ignorant and disrespectful comment in Brian's thread, you committed the same act of indifference that you claim Americans make when we pick our wars and our military targets.

If you can fill yourself with enough misdirected hatred to post an inflammatory comment about a brother you've never even met and who has done nothing that you know of to harm an innocent human being, then I cringe when I think about what you would do to other innocents if you were placed in the shoes of one of our soldiers, with all the shit that comes with it.

Go fuck yourself Sangi, and please do us a favor and don't enter our sport until you've gotten a little perspective.

It seems that you lack some reading and comprehension skills...

I wasn't bashing the deceased, instead I was saying that he lost his life for worthless politician whims..

Oh and what does BASE have to do with politics and war hmm?

@ Johenrik: The post in which I mentioned the beheading was originally much longer, but I edited out a bunch to keep it concise and I believe it lost some of its meaning. I don't think that everybody on the 'other side' is guilty of committing atrocities beyond the call of duty either. There was a much longer part of my post that responded to the previous question of "if a terrorist didn't want to be a terrorist, and enjoyed base jumping, would I talk to him".

I try to take individuals as they are, one at a time. If he was a person who was going out there and cutting off reporter's heads, I would show him no respect. If he was the type that, like many of our own soldiers, got caught up in the war and is just doing his job, then there's a good chance that we could discuss gear and rigging after this whole mess is over.

it appears to me that videos feed the emotions and not the intellect. videos stirs mob mentality, but fails to make a rational argument.

videos are essentially the tools of propaganda.

to heck with the war situation. look at BASE. how many people get stoked by videos and want to jump after watching a "best of" dvd? sure, they have little desire to skydive, but BASE, whoa! that is awesome dude!

occasionally carnage videos get out to temper the unrestrained enthusiasm.

most of my jumps are like the BD jumps. mostly unremarkable from a skill level. mostly unremarkable from a carnage level.

how does this apply to Afghanistan? well, don't get so flush with emotion from the video. think. was the country a pristine garden of eden before US troops arrived? I think not.

the more interesting question would be, do most Afghanis wish the US/NATO troops had never entered their country?

show enough videos and you can sway the opinion -> propaganda?

About as much as your comment had to do with the death of a fellow BASE jumper.

I don't know wwarped, soldiers themselves filming their disrespectful attitude and actions towards civilians and later putting it up on the web says at least something about them.. Again, seeing stuff like this makes you think that these freedom fighters are no better than the enemy they're fighting..


And you think it's better now after the invasion? War rages on for years and still no real positive progress..



Please elaborate.

No problem. I think in my several posts in this thread, I've failed to properly narrow down the point I'm trying to make.


First point: Maybe you're just lacking a few modifiers to specify which soldiers you're talking about, but to me it seems you're referring to all of them. When you say "Soldiers themselves filming their disrespectful attitude.... ....on the web says something about them" it really seems to me like you believe it to be a good indication of what all soldiers are doing.

Second point: You're judging these soldiers (including the ones not being disrespectful) from the comfort of your home, miles away from the conflict. You don't have to deal on a day to day basis with people who would plant an IED to blow you up on one day and then ask you kindly for a glass of water the next. Once again, I'm not saying that this is the case with everybody over there, but it has happened extensively and I'm sure it wears soldiers' patience quite thin. Refer to GreenMachines remarks about acting under stress, I think he phrased it better than I can.

But the original thing that triggered my ire was the post you made in Brian's memorial thread. I present the following excerpts which, of course, interrupted sincere condolences and attempts to collect funds for the deceased's family:


If you were simply trying to mourn the death of a fellow base jumper to the screwed up politics of world leaders, I think the word 'You' would have been used much more sparingly and not in such an aggressive, fuck-all-of-you tone. That is what pissed me off.

I guess I'm left wondering what you are actually FOR.

I know you are against..

- the US failing to confront the Soviet Union regarding their occupation of your home country

- the US confronting the Soviet Union around the globe when they propped up petty dictators

- the US trying to remove the petty dictators after the collapse of the Soviet Union

- the US acting as policeman to the world

- the near constant state of warfare in Europe before the US began acting as policeman to the world (guessing on this one)

so...
please educate me to where I'm wrong.
please explain to me what should be done.
please tell me how the world would look if the US practiced isolationism.

I'm listening...

Good post. Thanks.

But one thing makes me wonder. From your earlier post to Sangi:


Have you ever thought about the gruesome things that might have happened to the person cutting off the head of the reporter earlier?

I don't want to come off as someone who defends terrorist, because I don't. The people who did this deserves to be found and punished. But all the excuses used to explain why American soldiers do bad things can also be used about people on the other side.

Good catch. The truth is, war sucks for everybody. In my opinion, kidnapping and beheading noncombatants crosses the line a bit further than teasing thirsty children.. but people do some fucked up things when stressed beyond a certain point.

You have made your point, please walk away from this discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_I0dBYzdac

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvLyJqywAQ4

http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=channel

Your only obligation in any lifetime is to be true to yourself. ~Richard Bach

Namaste

I am for unity everywhere.

that is cool. i was at my friends house a few years ago. he was lying on the floor, next to his wife lying on the floor, next to their dog, lying on the floor on his back, next to his cat, lying on the floor on his back, next to their parakeet, lying on the floor on her back with her wings spread. i thought my god, "world peace." this really happened and i didn't have a camera.

 
Uhh... Tizzy, I think your's was the post above mine. I was addressing a number of points in several post but as is generaly my habbit I just clicked on the last one which was most convenint. It wasn't directed personaly.

This is. I would love for the world to be a peacefull beutiful place where we all ran through feilds of flowers, with them never being trampled, and played inocently through endless spring days. We're not there yet. I doubt the world will ever be so but it's a nice dream and as long as we can still dream there is still hope. Even if it's a slim one. In the mean time all that is necisary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Yes war sucks and the pain is real. My point is that the callus cultural indiffrence prevelent here in the US makes us one of the most dangerous countries on earth. You don't want to fight a war and you do not want to fight a war with the US. We don't offten lose. We may get bored or tired and quit or we may chose politicaly not to fight to our upmost, don't get me started, but there aren't many out there that are truly bigger then us. Even when you "win" aganst us look at casualty rate. Look at the kill ratio. Look at what's left after we get through bombing. This sounds strange but the only real hope for a country to survive a war with the USA is for them to be concured at which point we tend to spend billions to rebuild their country from the ground up better then before.

My understanding of the polotics. No I'm not a historian but I think my view and understanding is fairly tipical of how things are viewed here. Is it the product of propaganda? Yes. Do americans have an uninformed and narow world view. Maybe but I think I'm pretty tipical of how it's viewed over here. and right or wrong that is what guides the course of one of the most powerful milataries in the world.

Afganastan was front line between the west and the USSR. Russia was strongly funding and supplying the curant government. They were corting them hard giveing them money wepons and any thing else trying to turn them into another of their pupit states. I notice no one here seem to have any problem with that. The US did send money and aid to the mujahadeem. Note that the USSR was already funding and subverting country. I guess we could have just stood by and let that happen. Ask the people that lived in the former soviet states that they held after ww2. Ask them how they liked it and if we should have let this country fall as well. So we funded our side but it was the Russians that rolled in with tanks. We didn't invade the country. It was their war. They didn't have to fight it. They didn't want to be under russias thumb. We gave them the tools. And they won. We called it a win and moved on. Like I said that was a mistake.

There were a lot of people that faught against the soviets. Afterwards it broke down and they began to fight among them selves. Now as it turns out the Taliban wound up on top of the heap. The mujahadeem were not necasarily radical islamic extreamest. Theyu were a lot of people. It was a muslum country. Every one was Islamic. But yes they were there among them. It just so happioned that the Talliban that won out were extreamest. No we shouldn't have let that happion but like I said it was a mistake.

I don't think what followed can be called any thing but a religious dark ages. Women are slaves, no vote, no schooling. Savage and bloody religious law. A rejection of all things modern. I don't think any one would argue that they were bad people and not the best sturds for there country. The only clame they had to lagitamancy is haveing killed all their enemies. I don't think any one reconized them.

In this cancerous tumor grew all the terorist organasations. Where did Alkida have there training bases? Where did they all run to and hide out? It was a nest of vipers. To try and clame a seperation between them is rediculas. They were funded from there. They were trained there. It was their refuge. They sheltered them. Cleaning out that nest is one of the finest things we've done in years.

Now they have a government. Now there are elections. To my understanding they are freer then they've been in years. women can hold jobs, vote, go to school. Is this really a bad thing?

I think you should be proud of what your boy is doing over there. I truly beleave the world will be a better place for our actions, and those of your sons.

Lee

By the way I like some of the quots in your videos but I think they went a little overboard on some of the imagry. The whole thing could play a bit slower. But very cool.

Lee

You are an honest person!

I'm pretty sure that if I was in Germany during the start of WW2 I would have done terrible things out of fear for the evil in command, living a hell controlled by someone "vision" where I was not me, I was acting someone who obeys.

In this life, that we all experience, I've discovered these truths: Pain, Hate, Fear are very immersive. You're entire world - the world of known things - shrinks to the object of those actions.
Is easy to prove that pain is immersive: go outside .... in a beautiful day, a day with just a bit of wind, just enough to have good landings, when the sky is blue and smiles behind few white cumulus clouds that are just hanging around in the sky along with a huge and stretched strato cloud, far far away, that makes you think that the higher winds are not that bad, a day where the sun is warm and the grass is wet and kick yourself real hard in your groins and see if in your world the sky and that day still exists when you have that much of fucking pain.

With fear is so much easier to prove the immersion: We all had a big door in our head in our skydiving rookie days. This fear of the door had no sense but still in our world the door was that huge that we've forget everything else we had to do after.
With hate ... I don't have so much experience ... but I can redirect you guys to a test made 1971 when the hate was so immersive that people forget that a simple game they played is just a game. http://en.wikipedia.org/...rd_prison_experiment

It looks to me that we can easily lose our self (immerse) in Pain, Fear and Hate and I expect this to be true for everyone out there.

For fear B.Germain has this tricks that works. Put yourself in a state of admiration (widen your world) and the fear goes away ... and it worked for me when I do speed longboarding. With no fear I can commit and enjoy a carve at high speed (40 km - not that much :)) otherwise I will hesitate and miss my window. This admiration trick helped me.

For pain I've discovered this small trick. I always have a pain in my ankle. When I close my eyes and I try to focus 100% to the ankle pain the pain goes away. This works for constant pain. If I move my ankle around the pain changes and I need to re-focus and this takes some time. I've also discovered that I only immerse in 1 pain at the time. If I bite my hand hard the pain from the ankle will go away.

For hate I have none. Maybe that's why we have so many wars. Hate based actions usually implies fear and pain.

Does any of this make any sense to you guys?

The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil by Phil Zimbardo the mastermind behind The Stanford Prison Experiment.

Dehumanization:
At the core of evil is the process of dehumanization by which certain other people or collectives of them, are depicted as less than human, as non comparable in humanity or personal dignity to those who do the labeling. Prejudice employs negative stereotypes in images or verbally abusive terms to demean and degrade the objects of its narrow view of superiority over these allegedly inferior persons.


When we see others as less then human through hatred, we in turn can commit evil acts upon them.

Professor Zimbardo's research is worth a read to better understand human nature.

I highly recommend, http://www.prisonexp.org/pdf/powerevil.pdf

Great post, d123.

Immersive hate or dehumanization, however you label it, is probably the most destructive force our civilization has ever faced. It is a prerequisite to war, genocide, terrorism, slavery, and a host of other problems. To commit an act of violence against an individual who has not personally wronged you requires some level of dehumanization.

A friend of mine once told me about something he witnessed in Australia on the day Baghdad was bombed. He was at a backpacker's hostel/bar with a bunch of international travelers. There were two American girls there on vacation, just having a good time. The moment the war in Iraq started on TV, all of the other backpackers turned on these two girls, calling them names, pushing them around, and treating them like absolute shit until they eventually grabbed their bags in the middle of the night and left in tears. They had never made any mention of their political views as far as my friend could tell.

The hypocrisy here astounds me. The same people who claim to be anti-war and openly chastise Americans for the actions of our government, engaged in the same generalized dehumanization that is the root cause of all the fighting in the first place. I've seen the same story play out a million times in my own travels. Those who stand on their soapboxes and call themselves 'progressive' are still infected with the same disease that has plagued humankind since we first crawled out of the primordial soup. Hopeless.

I'll echo 460... Cool.

reality check: it's hard to enjoy unity when people compete for food, water, land, etc. resources must be allocated, and discord will result from perceived unfairness.

some others have posted well on further human tendencies towards cruelty.

it's a harsh reality that should not be denied. it is nothing new. a major religion has core tenets that revolve around suffering. they are known as the 4 Noble Truths. (see: Buddhism)

there seems to be no end to suffering and injustice. we all know about it, and who would ever seek to defend it?

it is up to each person to decide what they can do to make things better. should one travel to distant countries to help ensure governments serve their people? should one join the military? should one simply vent? should one sit back and think it is hopeless? only you can choose for yourself, none will eliminate suffering.

me too. ninja turtles.

Hell, just look at old Warner Brother cartoons
depicting Japanese people as less than human
zipper heads... or the KKK depicting blacks as
less than human... you get the point.

Very sad, but it is easier to kill anything if
you feel that it is less than you, for example
I have hunted and fished and the former was
easier when I was younger, the latter has
always been easy.

Occasionally, in a brief moment I feel this
profound, deep connection to everything,
being no distinction between myself and
all that is from the center to the horizon.

Those moments are precious for me but
unfortunately far and few between....

Usually I feel like Tyler Durden:

We are all part of the same compost heap.
We are the all singing, all dancing crap of the world.

Perhaps, two sides of the same coin

Spent the night on a double date,
good food, lots of beer and wine,
and tomorrow a new BASE guy
is coming to town to jump.

Anyone want to join us???

those who can convince you of absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

regardless, i like turtles... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMNry4PE93Y

So do these people, hmm...

http://www.youtube.com/...Rohk&feature=fvw

Speaking of absurdities. You guys know that we have a word for something that doesn't exists? That word is "nothing". I think it was introduced as an answer to a wrong questions like: What do you want to eat? Nothing!! ... And the other person doesn't naturally reply with: "I'm sorry I don't have nothing but I have this bad stew" because is impossible to imagine nothing. It doesn't exists.

What did I talked to you about in my post? Nothing!!! And we still can't find it in our world. For nothing to exists we need to immerse in the world of words.

yeah, excessive quantities of alchohol can have that affect on you.

That sounds like the exact phrasing of a question I answered on a psychiatric test at bridge day last year... I don't think I finished the test though, because the test administrators announced that they preferred sober participants.

haha! it was a survey and took forever to complete. what ever happened to that? anyone ever get the results?

are we as crazy as people think we are?

Hey Guys,

Isn't it funny how the word meaning has no other meaning ... other than the word meaning?

Edit: Google for meaning!

Who put this word here? It was here before me. I've learned from someone and believe in it!

Imagine the life that has put into the word meaning. How many decisions were influenced by the word meaning and nothing.

How many wars has been started from religion?
Religion that said: There shall be a messia (whatever) and he shall bring you meaning. And it brought nothing (another that existed before me)!
A word that you need to define meaning! A word for something that doesn't exist. Like meaning if you think about it!
Shame for the pain of those lifes!!!!!! I know how pain feels. That pain is real unlike the word meaning and nothing. Is not cool. Is not cool at all so lets stop it! We just need to collectively decide to not listen to meaning and nothing. Let's make it a good ride!

Is not even important ... this is only a game.

Have fun Guys!

Words are fun! They let me tell this to you!

Let's make it a good ride! BTW we brougth the word meaning and nothing and sense to make it more fun :) I know because I work on a game!
Bassically, shocker, we've made the life and not the other way around! Love makes you see life always good. Is not a feeling, although it creates them, it's a perspective. Is the love for skydiving. Is the perspective from where we see it and we love it!
Sorry I don't love B.A.S.E. yet :) Love for the sky is the perspective from where the sky is great. Love for fast landings is the perspective from where the fast landings are fun because they are slow and controlled. Only when we get out of the speed things are fast. Inside is just right.

Whoever wrote the Bible, please pay more attention to what you write, that's not the design we've talk about. People might believe it and then ... you see what happens! It happen to you too ... you funny idiot

Base75...? Is that... you?

i think he's being at one with the horizon : P

No man, is me. They call me Tipout and I call myself me and when I find myself I'm happy

I've found another definition for meaning: what it is inteded for. But what is intended for the word "meaning"? It still exists

Well that's not entirly true. Tipout is the name of the guy who "allegelly" invented poutine. I just liked the word and the story so I've propose people to call me tipout instead of my name.

i wish i looked like a UFC MMA meathead. I like turtles...

http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=channel

Off-topic but life is always off-topic :
The weed is gone (it was good, easy to light and burn and I don't put tabaco in it ... no ... never ... not me) and I started to make more sense of my discovery: The fact that the word meaning is defined only by itself or by synonymes.

The word meaning is a bridge between the world of words and the world of facts/experiences a.k.a. life. Most of our words describe an experience of life. Like the word potato. Is the name/word we give to an experience from life. A potato can be a visual experience (if you are able to see things but you are since you're reading this ) or a tasting experience (and this is a wide range of experiences depending on how you cook it) or a smelling experience (and this is a wide range of experiences depending on how you cook it) or a touching experience.
This word meaning has no meaning (other than the recursive one) in the world of words because is the bridge between those 2 worlds (Life and Words). If we didn't have words we will still live in this life.

So, for me at least, the theory with immersion in different worlds still stay valid and I just discover new worlds and bridges. Is just like when you watch a movie and you immerse in it. Instead of thinking is a just a movie you start to have reactions to the actions happening there (if the movie is believable otherwise is just a comedy = it doesn't make sense).

Thoughts?

Turtles are ok.
Baboons are like us but if we were stoned all the time. I worked with some baboons on this one shoot.
They're so funny. You give them a lemon cream biscuit and they open it up to eat the lemon cream first like a kid.
Even if you laugh at something else, if in proximity, they will think that you are laughing at them. They get very paranoid and they will beat you up something radical.
The way we controlled them was with some rubber snakes. If the baboon starts going in the wrong direction, you just throw a snake on the floor. It's the funniest thing, no matter how many times you do it in the space of five minutes, they still get such a fright and their whole body goes in to spasm.
In many ways they are so much like us.
I love baboons.

I like people.
They're OKish once they're honest. This honesty thing that I'm talking about makes them have sense. Is great, they are themself and they do thing that only makes them happy. Let me tell you a story about an honest dishonest carrier-car-ModelGirlFriend-powerSucker person.
He was not always like that. In the beginning he was enjoying baboons and balloons and slides and friends ... no weed yet (I'm adding a new word to the story that didn't existed yet). On that time, in his world, all his words revolved around the things he was doing and he was doing those things with his friends from the late 10:30 AM, when he woke up from a lazy dream world where the word weed existed and delve into a quick fun meal that Grandma called breakfast and out he run to play with his baboon sliding on balloons friends. Putting shoes on before leaving the door was not important yet. He just took them in his hands and put them when he need it. After few slides, just when he got into the fun of sliding on balloons with baboons friends, his Grandma call for him to give him this thing to eat that had vegetables and little meat called lunch. Not so much launching into fun this lunch did to him with its vegies.... Yuck .... Finish quickly meaned more fun to him ... after, but finish quickly meaned 2 choices to which he played seriously and lost himself in one of the choices only to discover a diferrent sides of the other one: finish the veggies first to enjoy the meat or start with the meat and find ways to get rid of the yucky veggies. And getting rid of the veggies was not easy. They always come back to bite his ass few days later when they start to decompose and smell. And biting his ass meaned a mean grandma beating his ass whith her shoe. So this is how, now, he found, after few hurted asses that the only trusted way to get rid of the vegies was through his ass because nobody will discover them in his shit. And that he did and to do that he eat the vegies 1st so he can finish with the taste of good ... cooked steak ... with a juiced crust and pink inside ... lingering in his mouth nom, nom, nom. Few years after, and those years were filled with the routine of shiting vegies and sliding into fun with baboons friends he goes to school only to find ... boy I'm fucking bored writing this story that I've never lived per se, wow is hard to lie ... You have to bring things that you like in the story that you don't like. Fuck this shit, tell me more about those fucking baboons! They seems OK once you have the plastic snake.

.... I'll stop posting for a while esspecially since I don't base. I'll give it some time to see what comes out of it. I might read these forums from time to time to see what's new on rigs and gears or on the world we talk about with our words. Later yo!

Word!! Spread the baboon love, dude.

A certain jumper around these parts reacts the same way if you throw a rubber baboon on the floor.. he hates them. All they ever did to him was steal his jar of sugar

This one alpha male jumped on to the back of our bakkie (pickup) once. he somehow managed to rip open the bags on the back, opened every single box of long life milk, taking a sip then trashing the box and going for the next one. He got the biscuits and trashed that, the coffee, everything... All the while the driver was swirving and breaking on the road like a drunk person. Once in a wihle he would glance up at us with a look on his face that seemed to say: "Is this all you've got".
I couldn't stop laughing.
After about 20km of this drunken style driving in the bush he decided he had had enough and hopped off. The back of the bakkie was trashed beyond belief.
They are like 3 year old kids in adult bodies.

Haha, thats awesome. Dan was just horrified they'd come rape him in his tent. I've never wished harder that I had a gorilla suit.

Deliverance ZA style

Damn Ghetto, you keep calling me out on shit, this is almost as bad as that time you shouted "But I thought you said your girlfriend wouldn't take it up the ass" in that restaurant... If i didn't have Arie's big ass knife I would have been scared of getting raped by that baboon, did you see the look that baboon gave me?

I did... I remember it looking something like this:

WTF

Can't .... type....

Baboon.... Asss

Too... Funny....

from Sang's view of the world to baboon ass.

what's weird is that it's completely fitting and relevant. In fact the pic of baboon ass is all we needed in the thread instead of all the posts trying to educate the young lad.

Hey, what's up?

hey there, sexy !

PS : this may be fitting : http://www.basejumper.com/...rum.cgi?post=2951149

Keep following your dream dude and don't let homophobic scums like me telling you what to do

Speaking of which do you like homophobes?

Please see attached.