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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z26jrvFfTWI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z26jrvFfTWI

Good job clearing it, just in time

Damn lucky he pulled at a decent height too!

The "yahoo" right before landing was great
but even better was the lag time between
your landing and moving -- all so very real.

Glad you are okay & Thanks for sharing!!

how was it cleared? WLO toggles or by cutting a line?

Why didn't the jumper maintain a heading while working on the fix?

 

Cleared by luck and pulling the toggle one last time before impact..

Heading??? With 4 cells inflated and 3 totally collapsed?? Its impossible buddy...

Trango 265, and I am 100kg +-

good job.

That looked rather exciting... Damn :)

nice work. betcha think about wlos or a hook knife next time.

but what are the chances of that happening twice? lol

WOW ... That's some insane footage, maybe I should look at some WLO's as a failsafe for my guardian angel
Cool post

do you wrap tape around the steering lines when you pack?

How about just setting the toggles differently all the time instead? I don't know how you guys call the setup, but when the toggle line is not attached through the small metal ring and when you have a lineover, you can just let go of the toggle and it will clear (but then you have to land with rear risers, still not a bad trade off)..

the problem with that suggestion is that your steering line then is pivoting off of your riser grommets which is not a stationary spot, also, if you let it go, the toggle would lodge itself in that riser grommet, so it would not fully clear for sure.

Sorry I do not fully understand. I've seen videos where guys were landing with their rear risers, while the toggles were let go and wobbling behind the canopy (like in the attached rough sketch).

How can the toggle lodge itself in the riser grommet? Sorry, I'm not trying to argue or anything, I just want clear this and understand what you meant...

That's the wrong application Sangi. That's only for slider off/down deployments. If it was feasible, we'd already be doing it.

Go look at your skydiving rig when it's unpacked. The brakeline goes through the slider grommet and the guide ring. If it's not in the guide ring and you let it go, is needs to somehow get through the slider grommet.

Line Release Toggles are setup so the line is releasable from the toggle itself. The line can travel it's way unobstructed through the guide ring and the slider grommet clearing the line over, that's also assuming it's a brakeline (most common) and not a d-line (far less common)

he experienced a line over on a slider up jump, therefore no line mod is used.

the situation can be quite hectic in a slider-up line over. I've had 2 slider-up line overs and I cleared them before impact (no WLO toggles). I was alone on both jumps.

Oh ok, now I get it. So why doesn't this toggle set up work for slider up jumps?

Edit: nevermind, just got a PM with an explanation

Woops, I'll edit my part of the quote in bold to finish my thought since I missed a key point.

Dennis McGlynn invented toggles like this back in 1997 or 1998 I think. Then I believe there are not WLO toggles that are similar concept.

have you ever used masking tape for the break lines in a slider up jump?
http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/wiki/Masking+Tape

Yeah I've read about the WLO toggles and off course know the good old trusty hook knife..

It's just that I was wondering why doesn't the slider down/removed toggle setup (when you can let go of the toggles to clear a lineover) work for slider up jumps?

I used to have a set of his toggles. It was a 2 hand operation. I modified the tab so it was easier to grab if necessary.

If that question is directed toward me, yes I use tape or a tailgate on the usual c, d, and brake lines on all jumps slider up or down.

Actually directed at Basjkall as he had the line over.

If your brake lines aren't through the slider (the way it would be to let go of the toggles and clear the line over) the slider won't always come down.

Big problem if your slider up...not an issue slider down/off.

That's why we do it differently for each.

(You guys try to make these explanations so difficult.)

What would make the slider not come down?

Part of the reason sliders come down is because the canopy and lines expand, increasing the angle the lines are at and forcing it down.

The brake lines create the highest angle because they are the furthest from the link attachment at the riser. (All the way at the tip of the tail, as opposed to the D's that are more toward the nose.)

The slider has to have enough of an angle in the lines above it to work consistently.

The picture is by far my favorite example of this. It's a zoom ball, if you're not familiar with it, it won't help my explanation. To see it in action (and a pretty cute video) :20 into this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWv-9_AlG7c

Ah, I understand now.

Thanks for the explanation

Strong work !

After watching a few times I think the speed from the spiral and the additional pressure from that on the inside of the canopy and crossports may have contributed to help clear the mal along with your skills. What do you think ?

oh, and another problem with going through the slider and not the little ring, is if somehow you blow a toggle. It could get all tangled up before you slider comes down... theoretically, anyway.

not only theretically. saw this happen once.
and it didn't look pretty.

Basjkall , very good job on that..
How do you normally pack your slider up rig ?
In terms of
direct/indirect slider control ?
S/U tailgate/tapegate/slidergate ...if yes ...how do you usually do it ?

Thanks

I have no idea how it cleared, most likely a mix of things..

I used to pack "normal" - no tailgate or tape. standard packjob, nothing fancy. But I got sloppy, and this kind of malfunction has rearly been on my mind, so I had no real plan for what to do if it ever happened. I had a hook knife, and if I was more alert I would have tried to use that most likely.?

But from now on it is WLO toggles, tailgate, ducktape, covering the tail with the sidepanels, hook knife and a gun to put me out of my pain if needed.
And a stomach reserve. I think that should cover it.

Do they even *make* the Razor with attachments for a bellymount?

don't forget putting a cyanide pill in your mouth too in case you get paralyzed and can't use the gun!

Again I want to apply for the statistic Anne Helliwell´s research from Petronas Tower, and KL Tower jumping. There is a significant high numbers of line overr we do not know happens, since they clear themselves.

Anyone else, Please help me to remember the numbers we had presented at the event.

 

hahahaha

I was going to write that, but I couldn't figure out how to convey the "Who is your mother?" tone.

No I don't jump and I never had a mentor.

I know it is like cursing in the church, but I think that a mesh slider will come down more easily than a normal skydiving slider.
I have done a skydiving jump with the steering lines rigged outside the slider grommets. It worked, in an interesting way though. Some wobbling (felt like yaw movements).

Anyhow, WLO toggles will do the job too. And for WLO it is just moving hand(s) to a toggle, with a hook knife, it is moving hand(s) to knife pocket, take the knife, then move it to (steering) line. Must take more time. But then with a fast spinning mal like on the video, it might be easier to cut a line then locate a WLO release.

Ronald

Ronald

I really doubt it. When you take the toggles in your hand, Your index finger is just underneath the ring already. Pinch it and yank. Grabbing a hook knife and quickly finding the correct line is a bitch in controlled environments let alone an uncontrollable spinner low to the ground.

If your hands are in the toggles already you can also reach with the opposite hand and yank the ring.

 

My experience with sliders not coming down is when we were trying to mod some CRW canopies. They were trying to use a strap slider just on the rears with the brake lines running through a smaller grommet just outside the big grommets (so the brake lines could be 'cut away' from the slider). We found that there was just not enough force of angle in the lines for it to consistently come all the way down.

So, I was making the huge leap that if a slider consisting of a single piece of webbing and a couple grommets wasn't coming down because there wasn't enough force of angle, and a sail slider will also not consistently come down with out enough force of angle in the lines, that a mesh slider would behave the same. I've personally never tested it.

Those guys on galactic are assholes. I called someone out about how far down they oil the lanes, it got ugly and I was banned. Is there a bay area bowling forum I can register too?

Yeah, I'm sorry I got carried away with the hijacking too. I'm voting with WLO is probably the best thing for slider up as well.

Great Job surviving!

Hookitt, how the hell did you get
banned from a bowling forum?!

I have given the TUG talk at a DZ.
FYI - TUG - Take Up Bowling

Did you actually believe my post was serious? Come on professor.

Take up GOLF is tug... Close though

 

next time in an emergency situation, don't be lazy - look up so viewers can at least see what's going on with the canopy. Has this not been covered in your FJC ?

and SliderUp jumps w/o a hook knife are plain silly :(

SliderUp jumps w/o a hook knife are plain silly :(

The only time my knives are not on my rigs
is when I am in the process of washing them.

done it with the WLOs for last 600+ jumps without any rigging...works fine :) no rigging error, no steering error :)

if youre opening that high you might as well have a reserve.

and a better plf wouldnt hurt either...

 

What was it i was told...........experiance is what you get just after you needed it.......glad your ok

so you had a pc in tow, then a line over?

thats what two-parachute systems are for.

use the right tool for the job.
learn a proper plf.

 

Perfect packjob with a PC in tow and a lineover... riiight.

So obviously, it wasn't perfect.

It was a nice and neat packing... I have been recently told to use tape on the inner C's and D's when packing slider up because a lot of jumpers in Switzerland are doing this now to avoid lineovers.
I didn't do that.. Maybe it could have helped..
Could anyone post some pics , please?

Just a quick reminder: "Parachutes may malfunction even packed or maintained properly..." we should never forget it..

Inner C and D lines plus the brake lines?

I do not know exactly how is all about...some of you maybe have more knowledge and might share that...Hope so

Yes, it is the Inner C, D, and brake lines.

Thanks! Please some pics...Help!

Inner C, D, and brake lines.

Really? Even for sub-terminal?

I usually tape just the brake lines.

That's less affective. The C and D help break the tape when the canopy expands.