Basejumper.com - archive

I'm a newbie jumper and am heading to [the Swiss valley] with another newb jumper in August. Other than basejumper.ch, I was wondering where I can get some good info about the valley, from the basics to more technical stuff. A good thread or website perhaps?

Things I want to know:
best way to get there from Bern, best place to stay, how to access the exit points, landing areas, gear choice (tracking suit necessary or optional), etc. Most important of course is where to have a beer after jumping.

Thanks for your help and if anyone is going to be there between August 19-23, feel free to join!

many posts on this website repeat that the Swiss valley is NOT for newbies.

if you insist on going, will you contribute to the rash of rescues and fatalities?

I sure hope that I am not going to contribute to the statistics. I plan to follow the rules and do everything as correct as I can. I have taken instruction from well respected jumpers and plan to be as cautious as possible. In fact, I am heading out to train with the same jumpers in a couple weeks. I am preparing for the valley and know my limitations. By all means, any beta you could provide would be well appreciated instead of suggesting negative consequences. In addition, how does someone break from 'newb' status unless they actually jump?

not that i know anything, but i'm sure the other 20 jumpers on the BFL that died in the valley didnt want to contribute to the statistics..

oh, and i dont like translating anymore articles over fatalities from the valley..

I have inquired with people who I know and respect about jumping the valley and will base my final decision on what advice they offer. But instead of turning this thread into so many others on here and dropzone.com that beat up the newb or pontificate virtual scenarios, can you please answer the questions I posed in my first post?

I am asking questions about a place I know little about. I am seeking support from the community with which I am a budding member. I am trying to go about it the right way. So come on, hook a brotha up!

Seems like you got all the info you need about the valley for now:
Don't go there, period!
There are far better places for new jumpers. The people here don't try to beat you up but want to keep you alive and more important to keep the valley open.

Just go to one of the easier places to gain experiance and save the valley for later.

Having to skip a lot of jumps because you broke yourself sucks, trust me.

By jumping 'newb' status places and by gathering experience needed to survive on 'advanced' jumps. Why should you immediately rush to a place that is widely regarded as an advanced jump? You dont start learning slider down jumping by doing sub 200ft night time HH B jumps straight away, why should you cut corners on E jumps?

be humble
crawl
walk
jog
run

learn at every step. you'll find out how much you did NOT know. if you skip a step, you won't be able to properly assess risks. you'll simply lack the knowledge base.

keeping a brand new driver away from a high powered sports car helps prevent accidents. detering newbies from going to the Swiss valley does the same.

by all means, you SHOULD jump. Idaho is a great place to build experience. (although NOT the best for the Swiss valley). Bridge Day, friendly A's, etc. will also provide valuable experience.

I suppose you know that there are places in Italy and Norway that are much more suitable for inexperienced E jumper. If you have not been jumping either of those, or other higher walls to gain some experience, please do not go to Swiss valley.

V

my contribution...I hate the word " beta". Sounds gay, therefore don't jump in swiss valley.

Beta, Send It & Smash up

All sound gay!

I appreciate the positive comments and PMs that I recieved from this thread. I do know of my other options in Europe but I wasn't aware of the degree of skill/experience needed to jump which Es.

With that said, I am in a line of work where I can't be caught on many As of Bs. Plus, I find it hard to believe that a night jump off of either of those is going to prepare me for a terminal wall. I have jumped Idaho and will be back out there in a couple weeks. Also, BD is right around the corner from me. Moab is short, and Little, CO seems logistically difficult.

That said, you guys seem to think Norway and Brento are my better options for beginner Es. Anywhere else? Of the two, which is a better fit for someone competent in what they are doing but are trying to jump a terminal wall. I'd prefer Brento. If Brento is ok with the BJ forum world, might I pose the same questions in my original post? As in how to get there, who to contact, where to stay, exit points, etc.?

just to join in the same tone as others - if you are seriously asking where to have a beer after jumping in the valley, you most definitely have NOT done your research via EXTREMELY EASILY accessible resources.

good luck, buy insurance.

Being online, gives you access to hundreds of thousands of documents on the right way to go about this (Serious numbers).
Again, you should read at least a couple thousand of them before you even play ground crew, let alone go to a FJC.

Start here:
Getting Into BASE

The read this several times:
Beyond FJC

Seriously, I know of a least a dozen jumpers that went the wrong way, and they are either on the BFl, or the can NOT jump anymore due to injuries. And any mentor that wants that on their conscients, scares me.

Italy or the usual place in Norway.

Norway has the advantage that, if you haven't jumped terminal cliffs before, you can rehearse the exit on the "pendulator" there and take a formalised course with an instructor. Give the Stavanger BASE Klubb a call.

If you end up in the Swiss valley with what many may regard as limited experience (I, and many others, think that 50 jumps split equally between slider up and down would be a minimum for any of the jumps there), stick to [the least hazardous exit] and, when comfortable with that, [move up to the next one]. [unnecessary detail] DO NOT head to the[unnecessary detail] the valley and jump the [more technical] exits, which happen to be more accessible.

Think about using a tracking suit - but you should have terminal jumping experience (and experience of using a tracking suit in a skydiving environment) first.

[more unnecessary details]



edited to remove details as requested -- wwarped

I have only visited the valley once, I had 150 jumps, all bar 1 being slider down, I had not skydived for 5 years. I ground crewed all week, as when I scoped them out, and watched some jumps, I thought that they were beyond my skill set.

I always imagine what will be written on the list should I go in


I think my experience actually helped me understand the dangers of the Valley to me.... I dont think I would have thought it too bad in my early days either.....

edit to add: Yes I know that puts me into the gay category!

I have never visited Switzerland, but I could have answered all your questions in the original post. As Mic stated, there are thousands of bits of information out there. Sadly, the jumpers you are leaning on could not answer them? Be careful. Be very careful.

As far as night jumps go, a jump is a jump. They all teach things. Most lessons come as a surprise. You learn things you had not planned on learning. Packing, rigging, brake settings, etc. all come to mind. More overlooked, these jumps teach you how to operate yourself. Does a mood/food/drink/etc. affect your judgment and jumping ability?

(Heck, one poster recently was in a rush to jump. He did not think he could buy the rescue insurance on a weekend and jumped anyway. He ended up with an expensive tab. All could have been avoided if he had taken a deep breath, relaxed, and realized he could buy the insurance on-line.)

Lurking, reading, educating yourself, easy objects, etc. are the best way to earn credibility.

I have found MANY times, the students that did read even 1/4 of the pages on BLiNC alone, quickly realized that they had heaps to learn. More over, they found out quickly that they where learning far more than would-be mentors will ever know..... Just by taking the time to read the digital history of the past decade of lessons...

BOTH this site and yours offer a wealth of information for people seriously interested in learning.

I remember being told learning requires "Time and Opportunity." time is NOT simply for reading a page or watching a lecture. time is required to let the lesson sink in. opportunity reflects that most of us need a reason to learn. without motivation, most lessons do not stick.

I bring up "Time and Opportunity" because so many jumpers want to jump hard. heck, isn't it a well paved road by now? haven't all the key details been sorted out? just let me do it, I'm ready! I promise!

they just haven't even begun to figure out what they do not know... or that the biggest variable in BASE lies in that grey stuff between their ears. <sigh>

I think that is really what I meant. After reading quite a bit, than going to the dz, or ground crewing, of going to s beginner object around other experienced jumpers, what you read starts to sink in. Then you go back a read more.... you start really getting shocked by all the things you realize you REALLY need to know, but didn't know who, or what to ask...

But reading a bit, or just going to jump is never enough.

Don't send him to Italy because of his unpreparedness. There is no FJC there.
Take care,
space

(Are you the "Sharpy" from Blinc? http://www.blincmagazine.com/...rip-p.html#post82014)
If this was the case, one would not need to make an inquiry on BJ.com.
I can’t logic my way through your statement and inquiry.
Take care and good luck.
space

Just to clarify, I am taking advice from a lot of sources but mainly from people I respect because they have proven themselves in this sport. There is a difference between being prepared for the actual jump and knowing where to get a beer and how to access the exit points. I asked my mentors and they explained what I should do to be prepared as a mentor should. It is a little ridiculous to rely on a person to hold my hand with everything like traveling and accommodations, etc. when they are not locals in the valley. They have jumped there countless times and know the place well, but it doesn't hurt to ask a question to the active valley community.

Many of you make a lot of assumptions from just a few posts of mine. I am not some idiot who has no idea of what is going on. I understand the concept of learning. I am always learning in skydiving even after many years and I understand that I will always learn about BASE jumping. I can relate to exactly what some of you said. I prefer the phrase, "you don't know what you don't know." I can't remember where I heard that, but it is true. And that is precisely why I asked the questions. I have read and read and read and read about BASE, put what I have read into practice when I could, and am trying to continue that learning process. You assume that because I asked questions that I should know the answer to, that I don't know the answers. Perhaps there is more than one answer to a question.

Again, I appreciate the positive and helpful comments that I received because those come from people who would like others to succeed. For those that feel it is necessary to insult others rather than impart your knowledge, then just keep it to yourselves.

Thanks

you seem to feel you were criticized. you seem to feel comments toward you were demeaning. you are basing those opinions on posts made here.

fair enough.

I'd like to point something out. you are responding to the image in your mind created by the posts. you are probably NOT getting a good grasp on the real people behind the comments.

guess what? the respondents to your posts were doing the same towards you. if you presented yourself as someone with more depth and experience, you would have received a far different reaction. by asking amazingly simple questions, and describing yourself as a newbie, you opened the door to people trying to keep you from hurting yourself.

your posts lead directly to the replies that you so dislike.

heck, if you had just lurked here for awhile, you'd realize that is one technique commonly used to prevent accidents. I'm sorry if you do care less about your health than total strangers...

do you feel you earned the right to the knowledge?
or do you think EVERYONE should know?

Let's make something useful of this thread

In the swiss valley there are many jumps.

1 ) If you have done 25 or more slider down safe jumps (bridge) and are current with heading recovery and techniques relative to vertical objects:

-There's a 160m E slider down. I don't like SL down E but that's only me.


2 ) If you have completed as well 25 or more slider UP jumps and are confident in your exit position and perfect stability :

-Theres a beautiful 350m cliff that you might jump.


3 ) If you can do some correct subterminal tracking everytime, are current in running exits, and have 2times the abovementioned experience:

-Theres a nice positive 450m cliff


4 ) If you can do AWESOME subterminal &terminal tracking EVERYTIME, are current with sketchy exits, running exits, if you never panic and are able to make split second decisions :

-There are a bunch of very technical and very positive cliffs to jump there. These are hardcore jumps, any small mistake is totally unacceptable. Be ready, and remember that learning on other easier jumps is just as fun!

Be safe, enjoy!

"The meerkat is a small mammal that inhabits the Kalahari Desert in Southern Africa. Meerkats are highly social animals that live in groups called a "mob" or "gang".

Sometimes an individual meerkat will become separated from his gang. When this happens he must roam the desert on his own, lost and forlorn, desperately seeking either his original gang or a new one that will adopt him.

Should the meerkat be lucky enough to find a new gang, however, he doesn't immediately assume himself to be a member. He doesn't charge in and start making himself at home in the burrows, eating the other meerkats food, and mating with the group's meerkat ladies.

Rather, he'll stand around on the peripheries, lurking, watching, and being watched. Gradually, day by day, the lost meerkat will move in closer. He'll observe the gang's behaviour, figure out who the key players are, and understand their unique culture.

Meanwhile, the gang observes the newcomer in return. They figure out what he's about, what his motives are, whether he's to be trusted.

Eventually the lost meerkat will be accepted into the gang and become one of them."

I thought this might ring some bells.
Take care,
space

Please don't FORGET that this valley is called the DEATH Valley in my country... there is some stories about Jumpers that have never jumped in the BASE environnement and they did their first jump in Lauterbrunnen,,,,Lucky they are still Alive,,,,

But a lot of experienced or so called Jumpers have died in the same valley as well.... I have been there during the outdoor games recently and had seen a lot of don't DO that kind of things during a BASE jump, Lucky to not have seen somebody fucked up or dead, but in the trees, almost in the river, landing in the wrong place, be yelled by the farmers etc.....

So please don't be a STATistics.....and play safe, where it is safe for yourself

Excellent analogy!

And once you're accepted by the gang, THEN you can start mating with the group's meerkat ladies!

=;>

Nice! You should put that on BLiNC's Basewiki!

...follow the way of the meerkat.

Good stuff dude, I think you just
coined a valuable new term

I should clarify what I meant: Italy can be suitable for someone who has a few slider down jumps to do their first terminal walls with guidance, ie a mentor with them.

To the original poster: go to the usual place in Norway first for a couple of weeks; you'll learn a lot in that time if you don't have any slider up jumps yet. Go to Switzerland later; it's not a beginner's area. You always have time!

I have to say that was one of the best posts I've read in a long time relating to this thread.

"and mating with the group's meerkat ladies"......fucking great!!!!!!