Basejumper.com - archive

This forum is littered with advice to newbies to slow down, take time, develop skills, etc. We encourage patience to increase safety.

Should we be doing the same for experienced jumpers?

NickDG has posted eloquently about savoring every jump. Take time between jumps and enjoy what was done. IIRC, he did NOT appreciate the skydiving attitude of the more jumps in a day the better.

BASE has always been about putting in effort. Jumpers have been known to visit a site plenty of times before taking a rig with them. It helps to learn the traffic patterns, if people will be around the site, if authorities are watching, etc.

So, where are we now? In the past few days I've read threads about:
- Opening a bunch of sites in a week.
- Lower time jumpers get busted in MD after apparently careless habits.
- Another jumper who is willing to risk his life jumping, but NOT risk a few days to truly "meet the locals."
- A Norgie basically wanting to create an information center at one location to ensure jumpers have no excuse to jump with only partial knowledge (he want to help, even though he has retired from jumping! ).
- After creating a thread to contact locals, one user states that there must be no locals to offend - the day after his initial post!

The lack of carnage reports from ID gives me hope that little ugliness occurred Memorial Day weekend. What a welcome change that is! It seems that the rush to make as many jumps and create a video normally leads to injury.

It appears that folks prefer being adrenalin junkies. They want another fix before they come off their high. They want it NOW, without waiting. It leads them to less than responsible behavior.

I prefer the wine connoisseur model. Delight in the details. Learn the specifics of a site. Walk it. Explore it. Look for obstacles. Choose possible "Outs." Build a map of the area in your head. Learn the routines of security personnel. Know as much as possible, then sip and enjoy. Delight in the details.

(I will admit, many folks might be doing just that, but I sure don't see it reflected in their posts!)

Once a jumper knows can accurately predict what will happen at a site, where people will be, the hazards posed by the current weather, etc, then they can say they "OWN" an object. They have removed luck from the equation (as at least as much as possible).

I'd like to encourage more patience in ALL jumpers, potential and active. I'd like to see more personal restraint. I'd like to see jumpers acting more responsible. Ethics is about knowing you CAN do something, but choosing NOT to do it. It is about limiting yourself for the benefit of all.

flame on.

jesus...when have you actually been out jumping the last time?
do you have contact to the outside world?
who cares who is in a rush? who cares who jumps what?
it's base jumping, you make your own rules, with all pro's and con's. some care, some don't.
nothing is gonna stop those really determined to jump. hot object or not.
and brian didn't want to approach the frenchies because one of them had just died. in the real world. where he was out jumping and showing respect to the circumstances.
take that dildo out of your butt and try to pay attention.

Interesting post. Yesterday, I was sitting in my truck next to the LZ of the "B" we looked at. Everyone was getting off work rushing out of the "B" to get to their cars and leave for home, I was watching the flag from the neighboring "B" blow one way and watching the tall grass in the LZ blow the other way. I was following the imaginary flight path from the opening to the landing, you know, having a good time, then I got to thinking about a fellow that called me one day, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY, asking me how to get the elevator started on the big "A" we have also looked at. This fellow was just passing through town and decided to have a go at it without first contacting me, he was going to completely burn it down in the middle of the day, then leave town, while we would have to see it smolder in the ashes.

Although the jump never took place, MD crew, I feel ya.

I have run into these feelings before in the climbing community, trad guys vs. sport guys.

We dont need a civil war, we just need to be more respectful of the local guidelines.

What kind of a reply is that to a post I personally found quite well written. My english is not my 1. language, so please enlighten me if I misunderstood the value of his post.

Jesus, I have been wondering why there have been so little valid discussions about accidents on the forums. Maybe you answered the big Q? Who cares?

that was exactly my point!
besides he asked for flaming, and i'm in pain right now and cannot jump so i just did him the favor.

"not to be gulped down"

I agree.

The thing I disliked about skydiving was that on a "good" day, I would do 10 jumps and at the end of the day not remember the first jump. The reason I started skydiving is that I wanted to jump out of a plane.... that was soon forgotten.

I recently went back to skydiving after many years out. I did a solo, I jumped from the plane, and the best part of the jump was the nervous climb up, and the exit from the plane.... after 10 seconds I was bored.

The reason I BASE jump is low altitude parachute deployment, and basically my feet leaving the edge of an object... that little moment.....

If I ever forget the first jump of the day because I just cracked out 10 jumps...... well risking my life on the first was foolish....


I will do a BASE jump and savour it..... maybe for a week or so......

It is personal, I also love a decent Louis Jadot...

irrelevant


I try to live in the world that exists, not the one I want. the world where me and my opinions, problems, and happiness mean little to the billions of people on the planet.


who cares? well, YOU care or you would not have been the first respondent!

who SHOULD care? ANYONE seeking help.
if people don't trust you, why would they share information, especially delicate information?
maybe the French jumpers don't trust people who just show up for a day or two. maybe they want to get to know you first. (I really have no clue.)

I HAVE seen jumpers show hospitality, but carefully choose which object they will reveal. I find it quite understandable.


true.
and that is the key reason for ETHICS. being ethical means you restrain yourself. if a jumper refuses to restrain themselves, then by definition they lack ethics. if they lack ethics, they are NOT trustworthy. (IMHO)


you think it shows more respect to post a request on the internet than face to face?

really?

wow.

from what I read on these forums, it seems like he is determined to jump. his need to jump (as a guest) trumps the concerns of his potential hosts. one avenue has closed and instead of saying "it is not meant to happen," he wants to keep trying until he gets his way.

it reminds me of the newbies blundering here asking "how can I get into the sport?" "why won't anyone mentor me?" "why won't you answer each and every question?"

terms like self-absorbed and petulant come to mind.


huh?
wha?




so, do YOU view YOURSELF as ethical and trustworthy?
(hey, I only asked you 1 question. surely you have enough free time to answer it!)

of course!
and i think i'm really sexy too!

I would love to see a sticky post, with world wide comon sens, safety, ethics and guidelines heavily moderated from all post that have nothing to do with the issue!

Maybe we could make 10 basic lines worth shearing with others. Remember I said maybe, since I doubt we will manage and come together as a team, and cooperate about something that maybe could save a life!

Who cares?

I know we do have ethics, basic rules bla bla etc. I have learned from offshore which is the "safest work place" in the world (Norwegian sector) We had safety every day, every project every little operation on the project. I have to admit it was kind of irritating, but I learned at once we started lowering our shoulder, or stopped care about what other do, things started to happen. At once we stop thinking or progressing about known issues things goes wrong. This is about caring about others, if it is not for yourselves. I have seen so many jumpers in pain after accidents of their friends, who often did not take their own safety very serious! I have seen many jumpers limping around and complaining about how fucked up they are, when they knew they did not take care of their own safety.

Stop and think now! There is no later!

  Whenever I sense a rush to jump in visiting guests or even locals it's a red flag of recklessness. Haste makes waste.

Edit and added som more

It is strange, I do remember all of my jumps up to a specific number over many years, then it kind of fades out, when I start doing more jumps each year. There is some highlights once and awhile, of different reasons. Remember 10 - 15 base jumps a year was a very active jumper at that time. We where more base jumpers in head, than in action. It gave us more time to think, and focus around each jump, that could take a month, even years from first decision/desire to make. I have to point out at that time we jumped to survive, and every little unknown detail had to be found, and every known detail had to be in focus. Many of us was lonely wolves as well, since there was nobody close around with experience. I later learned from a friend of me, who did his first base with a DB from a crane, using a plastic bag, and also figured out that an antenna jump had to be made in to head wind. Why he figured out? Simple, the canopy will surge for air, and to make sure it was opening onheading, it had to be headwind. I used a 12 meter static line using a skydiving rig, with the bag, and the rubberbands as a DB, disconnected from the chute but with a carabine inside just to make sure the bridle would pull the chute out of the bag. This just to get some more "freefall experience" from a bridge we would freefall today. My friend did his first pilotchute asisstant to me, and it gave him bloody hands when the pilotchute teared up inside his hands, when he was holding to hard to long. My other friend bursted his ribs holding to hard to far away from the fence, he just bounced in the fence quite hard. You see we progressed learning by mistakes. Se how easy it is to pilot chute assist someone today? Still a very serious matter, if they dont pay enough attention to their job, or have the experience to do so. My first building I spent 3 years from first I saw it, until I felt I had the experience enough to go and make it. I spent one week at location before I jumped it. My first single container, I packed 20 times before I jumped it. Packing pulling out 20 times, trying to find a week point, or hazards. My first jump with a single conainer, I do remember very well. I was stripped naked. Now I would never jump anything else than a single container.

Later I learned the new generation who just traveled around, saw an object pulled the gear out, and just jumped it. Wow it was so easy, why did we not figure out that before? I was shocked, I was frustrated, the new generation made it look so easy. How could they? They had no respect! It was so unfair! I had spent so much time just to survive, just to learn this? Got Dam it! This is also the years we do see the accident rate rise, but also the numbers of jumps being done pr year changing dramatic.

I have met 33 of those you find in the list, some few of them was very good friends, and some I was friends with, but I did not dear to keep to close. I learned I had to choose my friends very closely, and I have turned down a good friend relationship, because of their behavior as an jumper. 2002 I was num, thats the worst year I had in sport. After this year, I started to jump more like I did when I started. More solo´s, and choose my jumping partners with care. If we where on a load, and one person showed up, I could make an excuse to not go at that time, and either go somewhere else. I had learned to protect myself, and my feelings. BASE was also very personal for me, if somebody did not show respect for the different sites, nature, or I did not feel confident with their personalities, or they expressed I was an old fart since I had my strong opinions, I did not feel responsible to be a guide, a jumping partner, or share my local information.

This is maybe what we have to reethink, and don´t make it so personal anymore. We do know we can not stop people from jumping, but we can guide them as good we can to preserve our sites.


Two basic rules/guidelines/quotes....

Know you can loose your best friend!
Know you will feel untouchable when your ego grows!

A quote from the old fart
"Burning objects" is far more important to bitch about, than discussing fatalities!

Thank you for reading the old retired farts post

thank you for writing; very cool post!!