Post deleted by Treejumps
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General BASE
Re: [a hidden post] new jumpers burning MD objects
[moderation] Instead of editing the original post, here is a more sanitized version.
typically, I'm not happy with people posting private communications here. but just as newbies get hassled for obvious indiscretions, shouldn't experienced jumpers be treated the same?
In reply to:
An email chain I recieved.
> Background:
>
> A guy named [jumper 3] moved here from Florida a few months ago with a handful
> of jumps. He found *** online and asked me about it. I told him that
> we jump it regularly and didn't hear anything else about it from him. That
> was months ago. Monday [jumper 3] writes me an email and says that three
> people got busted there on Saturday. One was [jumper 4] who posts online as
> [jumper 4 username] and lives in [deleted], one was [jumper 5] who posts online
> as [jumper 5 username] and lives in [deleted]. The other we don't know yet. [jumper 4] found out
> about the tower from [jumper 3] who said it would be ok to jump it. Aparently
> [jumper 4] thought that counted as contacting a local. [jumper 3] was going to go
> with them but had a conflict. No one ever talked to me or [jumper 2].
>
> [jumper 2] and I have been jumping *** for almost 5 years since he and
> [another dude] opened it. We kept going back because of the LOW bust factor, large
> landing area, easy access, easy climb, and the large platform at the top.
> It was a great place to take newer jumpers and out of town jumpers. It was
> a great place to go to get back to back low key jumps in. We had a good
> system for getting in and out without being seen and we knew the routines
> of the cops and neighbors in the area.
>
> The Bust:
>
> These three dingleberries parked in the parking lot which is well lit and
> visible from the busy biway and climbed the front side of the fence which
> is also well lit and visible from the busy biway. To me that is a stupid,
> lazy, careless and obvious mistake which could have been avoided with a 10
> minute conversation with me or [jumper 2]. The other side of the fence is dark
> and about three feet away from dense trees. The cop let them go because he
> is ex-military and [jumper 4] is currently in the military. But now the cops
> know that the tower was being jumped and I don't think our former
> procedure for getting in and out of there is safe anymore.
>
> In Maryland we've been lucky to have gone years without having unethical
> jumpers in the area, but we may be at the end of that era. As stupid as
> they were, [jumper 3] and [jumper 4] have been pretty apologetic about the whole
> thing. They seem to realize they screwed up and don't want to repeat the
> mistake. [jumper 5] on the other hand doesn't seem to get it (see her response
> to [jumper 2] below). Lesson: watch out for this chick. She's trouble.
>
> -[jumper 1]
>
>
> Hi [jumper 2],
>
> It is a pleasure to finally meet you...if only online. I actually
> contacted you on February 16 to let you know that I would be jumping in
> this area, but you never wrote back. [another guy] told me about you.
>
> You asked what happened at the tower and I think that [jumper 4] already
> explained that to you. It was just bad luck. It was completely silent
> outside, then all of a sudden a cop just pulled in there out of nowhere
> and caught us. They found it amusing and let us go. The cop was just
> pulling in there to do paperwork..he hadn't suspected a thing.
>
> A friend of mine had contacted [jumper 3], another local, who told us about
> this object and although he couldn't go with us, he said it would be okay
> for us to go on our own. So I did contact a local. But, I am also a local
> myself. I live in [deleted] and will be actively jumping the area. I'll be in
> Norway jumping the fjords for the next few weeks, but once I return I will
> be out and about so I'd appreciate it if you'd take me out to the local
> objects. Are you willing to do that?
>
> Best,
> [jumper 5]
[/moderation]
[personal thoughts]
In reply to:
It was just bad luck. It was completely silent outside, then all of a sudden a cop just pulled in there out of nowhere and caught us.
it was "completely silent" until the cops arrived? are they supposed to announce themselves? should they be preceded by a marching band?
wtf?
there are a ton of lessons to be learned here...
[/personal thoughts]
Re: [Treejumps] new jumpers burning MD objects
True, I fucked up. I burned a good object. I cannot deny that and I apologize. Thanks for posting online and letting everyone know.
Re: [wwarped] new jumpers burning MD objects
I've received a few PM's about this thread. I think I've now completely sanitized the story I posted. I have been told that there are errors, but I'm hesitant to eliminate it entirely. I'd like to see a discussion on topics like: - just because a jumper moves to a city, can they claim to be a "local?"
- if true locals don't actually assist others, can they complain when a favorite object gets burned?
- is parking and climbing the fence in a well lit area common?
- if people know an object has been jumped, do they tend to get more casual about the jump?
- should we just accept the following as truth:
mr_prick wrote:
who cares who jumps what?
it's base jumping, you make your own rules, with all pro's and con's. some care, some don't.
nothing is gonna stop those really determined to jump. hot object or not.
Re: [milkflyrockclimb] new jumpers burning MD objects
This whole situation blows, and I'm sorry for everyone that jumps this thing, but to play devils advocate, it's not like this thing got burned to the ground. The cop probably told a couple other cop buddies "you wouldn't believe the idiots I found trying to parachute from this antenna we tend to park by". It doesn't mean they're going to assume that it happens a lot, and it doesn't mean they're going to start casing the place. Let it cool down for a bit and keep doing it the smart way, and it'll probably be alright. Somebody said you guys would make multiple jumps there. If cops tend to park in the parking lot and your still able to make multiple jumps there, you should still easily be able to jump there. Same protocols you've been using, don't be a dumb ass, stay in the dark when ever possible, move through the light either quickly and discretely or slowly if you think someone's peripherals might catch you. Act like you own the place. Check the area out from the top before you jump. If busted post jump, "I brought my parachute here to pack it", and if that don't work, "I was looking to see if there were any signs saying it wasn't allowed" or some other creative shit
BASE courses need to start covering criminal common sense
Re: [wwarped] new jumpers burning MD objects
It really sucks that this got burned, yes things could have gone different and yes things are to be learned. And of course i feel like shit about it. Not that it matters in this situation but it is not the 1st bust in MD, Jumper X which is one of the original locals got busted years back, so he told me anyway.
The story on here isn’t entirely correct but is close enough to get the point across and it doesn't really make a shit. But being that i am jumper 3, i made it very clear when i talked to the other jumper that i have been trying to jump with the "real" locals for 3.5 months now with no luck and i never jumped this tower. But i was told by jumper 1 that is was a low bust tower and from my scouting it looked like a great tower to jump for all the reasons already mentioned.
In my opinion, i was doing things correctly, i moved here contacted the "real locals", jumper 1, numerous times told him i would be here permanently and wanted to jump with them. I did this over the course of 3.5 months. I did tell him about objects that i was looking at and hoped i would get to jump something with them. I did get an invite for beers on a night i wasn't able to go and was told about this tower and that is was low bust. I made another attempt to tell him i really wanted to jump bad because it had been so long and i didn't want to burn their objects but didn't hear back at that point.
After that i actually spent the cash to go home to FL to jump because I was really trying to jump WITH them before i jumped anything on my own. I respect the time it takes to open objects and was well informed that this area had about 20 + years of jumping in it and i respected that as well.
I know that when a couple jumpers on this site requested some help from locals in South Florida i showed my sites or gave information so that they wouldn't get burned and to have a good time with other jumpers.
Jumper 1 made it clear to me that in the future if i am jumping something that he would tell me the details, which is great news and I really appreciate that. Where i was wrong was that i assumed that since i wasn't getting the opportunity to jump with them they weren't going to give me details about their sites. Lesson learned.
I honestly thought i was going about things correctly and trying to respect the area. But opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and will think what they will. But i do live in MD and will be living and jumping here for many years to come, regardless if i become or considered one of the "real locals" unfortunatly.
Re: [Stut] new jumpers burning MD objects
In reply to:
i have been trying to jump with the "real" locals for 3.5 months now with no luck and i never jumped this tower.
stut:
Devils advocate...
How hard did you try to contact locals? Personally it is hard for me to take people out do to my 100+ hour work weeks (and endless posting on my blackberry, that at least 80 hours
). Even then I try to make a personal sacrifice and get a brother a jump. With that being said, maybe your schedule and the "locals" schedule didn't jive? Some times you have to be willing to wait. The best things in life are normally worth waiting for, right?
milkflyrockclimb:
props for admitting your mistake. Heck we all make them, I know I am not perfect... As far as posting it online... don't worry about it... Just don't surf BJ.com on a work computer with your screen name.
my 3 pence...
respectfully,
Re: [leroydb] new jumpers burning MD objects
I said jump not contact I work alot of hours so i know what you mean. One was fast to contact me off a post on here (prayers be with him)and then he gave me the email of Jumper 1, I was in contact with him but didn't get a invite to jump. Which could have been because they weren't jumping, i think jumper 1 had hurt his wrist, bad schedules, i'm a prick or whatever.
I finally figured that i was going to have to go about jumping myself again i'm not saying i couldn't have done something different/better but it was my perception i was going about it correctly.
Re: [wwarped] new jumpers burning MD objects
wwarped wrote:
I've received a few PM's about this thread. I think I've now completely sanitized the story I posted. I have been told that there are errors, but I'm hesitant to eliminate it entirely. I'd like to see a discussion on topics like:
- just because a jumper moves to a city, can they claim to be a "local?"
- if true locals don't actually assist others, can they complain when a favorite object gets burned?
- is parking and climbing the fence in a well lit area common?
- if people know an object has been jumped, do they tend to get more casual about the jump?
- should we just accept the following as truth:
mr_prick wrote:
who cares who jumps what?
it's base jumping, you make your own rules, with all pro's and con's. some care, some don't.
nothing is gonna stop those really determined to jump. hot object or not.
No, being local means that it is accepted by others in the area that you know the rules, have been shown the way, and are trusted to make good decisions.
If true locals dont actually assist others, can they complain when a favorite object gets burned?
No, a lack of communication regardless of experience levels of those involved, should be avoided. If you dont want someone jumping your objects, then tell them they are not welcome. If they jump anyway, then you have a right to complain.
Is parking and climbing the fence in a well lit area common?
Not on any object Ive ever been on.
if people know an object has been jumped, do they tend to get more casual about the jump?
Unfortunately I believe yes. This should be avoided, a casual aproach to any object regardless of type or legality will get you killed. You can die at any given moment on any given jump.
Should we accept that you make your own rules and who cares who jumps what?
This type of aproach is what gets people in trouble hurt and killed. Im pretty sure that this type of aproach is not accepted in most places. Be respectful follow the golden rule Contact the Locals, and if you concider yourself a local in a given area, you have an obligation to comunicate to those reaching out to you regardless of skill level, personality, race, religeon, sexual preferance, how tall, or short, skinny or fat, boxers breifs, whatever. People need to communicate.
Re: [DAVE858] new jumpers burning MD objects
You dont need to call the locals if you act in the right way. Discuss.....
Edit to add: acting in the right way means bascially the way you would act opening a new object (you know that time spending nights learning about security patrol patterns etc.... )
Re: [Mac] new jumpers burning MD objects
Mac wrote:
You dont need to call the locals if you act in the right way.
Discuss.....
Edit to add: acting in the right way means bascially the way you would act opening a new object (you know that time spending nights learning about security patrol patterns etc.... )
Why would you not want to talk to someone who has already figured all that out?
Re: [DAVE858] new jumpers burning MD objects
DAVE858 wrote:
Mac wrote:
You dont need to call the locals if you act in the right way.
Discuss.....
Edit to add: acting in the right way means bascially the way you would act opening a new object (you know that time spending nights learning about security patrol patterns etc.... )
Why would you not want to talk to someone who has already figured all that out?
Maybe you want to do things yourself perhaps?
Re: [Mac] new jumpers burning MD objects
If you want to do it yourself, go open something. If you want to jump something that is regularly jumped by other people, you need to collect as much beta as possible, so you don't screw them over by making a stupid mistake and getting heat.
Re: [SBCDave] new jumpers burning MD objects
SBCDave wrote:
If you want to do it yourself, go open something. If you want to jump something that is regularly jumped by other people, you need to collect as much beta as possible, so you don't screw them over by making a stupid mistake and getting heat.
My point is, if you do it right then it should not screw them over by making a stupid mistake.
As I said..... Discuss
Re: [Mac] new jumpers burning MD objects
What's there to discuss ? Parking in a well lit and nicely visible parking lot and climbing the most visible part of the fence is IDIOTIC. It doesn't matter how often the object has been jumped or who the people who TRIED to jump it are - the act is PURE STUPIDITY.
Re: [Mac] new jumpers burning MD objects
Mac wrote:
SBCDave wrote:
If you want to do it yourself, go open something. If you want to jump something that is regularly jumped by other people, you need to collect as much beta as possible, so you don't screw them over by making a stupid mistake and getting heat.
My point is, if you do it right then it should not screw them over by making a stupid mistake.
As I said..... Discuss
People have widely varying opinions on what "doing it right" means.
If someone else is actively jumping the object, it's much better to let them take you, so you don't get into shouting matches later about whether or not you were "doing it right" when something went down.
Re: [milkflyrockclimb] new jumpers burning MD objects
In reply to:
I FUCKED UP. IM NOT JESUS.
Hey, Jesus got caught too.
Re: [TomAiello] new jumpers burning MD objects
those of us jumping towers are a bunch of criminals BREAKING THE LAW and then citing ethics when our panties get in a bunch... funny when you think about it...
Re: [milkflyrockclimb] new jumpers burning MD objects
Something every jumper should own and read cover to cover before beginning to base! http://www.defensedevices.com/...-excuses-how-to.html
Re: [jumpinDan] new jumpers burning MD objects
jumpinDan wrote:
those of us jumping towers are a bunch of criminals BREAKING THE LAW and then citing ethics when our panties get in a bunch... funny when you think about it...
There's a huge difference between law and ethics.
Illegal behavior is not necessarily unethical. Nor is unethical behavior necessarily illegal.
Re: [milkflyrockclimb] new jumpers burning MD objects
can I suggest you relax? maybe stop reading this thread? why?
for one, you've accepted responsibility for your error. cool.
two. from the rumored story (which I accept has errors), mistakes were made by several people. these are the topics I am more interested in.
three. the screw-ups contained in this story are probably being made by jumpers elsewhere. some may not even realize it. most humans learn the most from their mistakes. straight lectures rarely sink in well. hopefully, someone might be reading this tale and rethink what THEY are doing.
you've learned your lesson, but what about everyone else?
remember, we have NO authoritative body setting standards. this means we get no official guidance, no official best practices, no official safety recommendations. it is up to each and every jumper to set their own personal standards.
how best to develop one's own standards? how best to ensure they have considered everything? surely, many have other thoughts, but mine include discussion, questions, and review of other people's oopsy-daisies.
this thread should NOT be about beating you up, but an opportunity for other low timers to think things through. heck, maybe high timers might become friendlier. who knows?
Re: [jumpinDan] new jumpers burning MD objects
jumpinDan wrote:
those of us jumping towers are a bunch of criminals BREAKING THE LAW and then citing ethics when our panties get in a bunch... funny when you think about it...
RANDOM THOUGHTS:
True... very true... Valid point. It's kind of like a quasi-gang turf war....
But what about Ann Rand...
In reply to:
Ayn Rand:
There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
what makes the "moral majority" right? some cultures thought that canabilism was hunky dorey...
I guess what I am getting at is some countries have different views upon BASE. Some dont view tresspassing as a big deal.
Currently I think an advantage that "we" have in the US is that most think that BASE is outright illegal.... So for the most part there are very few laws in place to prohibit the practice.
Sometimes you have to buck the system to get change in policy/law. Some BASE'r are here for positive change, some are glory hounds.
the Original MD object burners!
Treejumps wrote:
You can be proud to be the 1st people ever busted jumping a tower (or anything else) in the 25 year history of BASE in MD.
Shhh, keep it on the downlow... the MD crew doesn't know about it!
Maybe not a bust but just about as close as you can get!
Anybody ever pick up that parachute at auction? I know the owner
Re: [base570] the Original MD object burners!
We have a moron that parks right underneath one of our objects even though we have begged him not too. He says I park on the dark side. WTF. Just don't get it. Plenty of places to hide your car but being lazy is not a good excuse. I am old fat and can't climb much over 400ft but don't mind a walk to save an object!
Re: [Treejumps] new jumpers burning MD objects
What was the outcome? Was this catch and release? Were you cited for trespassing? Court date later? That might be a court date worth showing up for
Re: [Treejumps] new jumpers burning MD objects
sometimes the locals are a little hard to get in touch with.... especially if you are a newer jumper and don't have that many contacts. hell, i live in central florida, i've been jumping here for 2 years and have yet to jump with a local. it seems like the jumpers with a lot of experience don't want to be bothered with the newer jumpers.
Re: [adrianh] new jumpers burning MD objects
you can't expect them to automatically accept you.... but 2 years is excessive... did you upset them?
respectfully,
Re: [leroydb] new jumpers burning MD objects
not to my knowledge... there are about four people i can call and jump with.... all with around the same experience level, we all prettymuch started at the same time. i was refering to the jumpers with over 300 jumps. i'm not trying to bitch, i'm just concerned one day i'll go jump an object that has been heated up by someone else and i'll be the one to pay the price.
Re: [adrianh] new jumpers burning MD objects
In Portland you aren't a true local until you burn an object...
Re: [dantana] new jumpers burning MD objects
dantana wrote:
In Portland you aren't a true local until you burn an object...
So true. It's a Portland BASE tradition...hahaha! Send us your outcasts...your reprobates. They'll fit in just fine!
Spence
PDX BASE
(BTW Milkflyrockclimb is a stand up guy, I know this as fact)