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There has been a thread running in the incidents forum recently about people using some form of line-over protection on slider-up jumps. Whilst I appreciate the in's and out's are discussed in that thread I still want to know what percentage of people use different methods

With only four slider-up jumps I do not know shit!!

But I am curious: What is the down side to using two
seconds and half a penny's worth of blue painters tape
in addition to a mesh slider for 4+ second BASE jumps?

Any injuries using this approach? Does it affect heading?
Does it slow down the opening too much? Thanks much.

I was shown a method using part of the mesh on the slider to surround the [control + inner C/D] lines on a recent trip and I like this as an idea. The theory being that this will encourage these lines to stay in place until the canopy starts to inflate, preventing / greatly reducing the incidence of lineover.
I've only done 8 jumps with this method so I don't know how effective it is, but it seems logical to me and I can't see any potential fouling / snagging issue.
I don't like the idea of using tape, but I would struggle to give a tangible reason. I guess I like the idea of making the best use of the kit that's there. The slider is already at the top of your lines, basically at the tail-gate point, so why not use it? I know tape is cheap and light, but it's something else to remember and bring. On the trip we were on, another jumper had forgotten his tape and had to rummage and scrounge to complete his packjob.
If anyone's got any thoughts / further experience with this method, I'd appreciate your input.

I do not like the idea of tieing the slider up (to control lines or any other part) any way. Primary stow is enough. It is supposed to come down, better a bit fast than too slow. If I'd use some line over prevention device on slider up jumps, I'd use tailgate and small mesh slider which should not interfere with each other.

V

The reason it's possible to have a line over with a slider is because if the slider moves down before you get to line stretch the slack lines have the ability to move around the nose.

Edit to add: I don't have a lot of slider up jumps, but I use the primary stow obviously and direct control by wrapping a rubber (that is larksheaded to a fingertrapped chunk of dacron near the top of my left inside c line) around a some of the slider mesh.

First thing I did when I got to Europe was by packing clamps and 19mm masking tape.

And that's the reason we use the primary stow with a tight rubber band in good condition.
V

im guessing thats not always the case because im pretty sure 99% of jumpers pack su with the primary stow but line over do still occur.

i use direct control, indirect control and 2 wraps of tape. maybe this is triple redundancy and over kill but its never been a problem to my openings and i haven't heard of a mal from people using these methods. so considering a lineover is a pretty nasty thing to have i do whatever is available to stop them.

im from the school of thought that direct control doesn't slow anything down. it just makes sure the opening sequence happens in the proper order. those tiny bites on the slider release in a pretty quick fashion. its not like ive done tests in the field but i dont think that can slow an opening down measurably or at all. i could be wrong but i have a good amount of su jumps all packed this way.

my 2 cents on the subject. avoid line overs like they can kill you.

For me the downside is this : http://www.basejumper.com/...post=2893155#2893155.

I don't use tape for slider up, but on my slider down stuff I put a 2-3mm (I try to make it a little less than an eight of an inch) tear in the top of the tape in an attempt to make sure something like that doesn't happen.

 

It would be good to hear from anyone who has had a slider-up line-over. Did any of you use a tailgate or tapegate?

I've seen footage of Tom A having a line over in LB, must have been slider up, and he taught me not to use tailgate slider up because it wasn't tried and true yet, so I'm assuming he wasn't using a tailgate or tape gate. Maybe he'll see this and give more details.

I've had a line over slider-up. At Kerjag - jumping a Prodigy. Wasn't using a tailgate or tape.

I released the toggle but it wasn't the brake line, opted for the water - no injuries.

I use tailgate now - don't like the idea of tape.

While jumping in Kiev two weeks ago, one of the jumpers in our group had a slider-up lineover on a skyBASE jump from a paraglider.

The jumper was using just the slider and primary stow: No tailgate, tapegate, slidergate, or direct control.

He pitched a little below 200 meters and was under canopy a little over 100 meters. The canopy immediately started a medium-speed spiral to the left. The jumper looked up and saw some (or all) of the left steering lines over the canopy. Before he could provide input, the lineover cleared itself, just as his spiral was finishing its first rotation.

In my opinion, and in the opinion of the jumper involved, had the lineover not cleared itself, he would not have had time to deal with it. He was already low, and by the time he started to act to fix the lineover (which was the same instant when the lineover cleared itself), he had already burned up nearly half of his remaining altitude. A hook knife in this case was not an option. WLO toggles might have been an option.

The jumper did not have WLO toggles, but plans to buy some at the first opportunity. I plan to do the same after seeing this.

Strangely enough, of all the jumpers I know, the packjob of the jumper involved is one of the most orderly and meticulous that I've seen. When his canopy goes into the tray, it looks PERFECT, with all the lines carefully controlled in the dead center of the packjob.

I am practically certain that this lineover was not the result of poor packing.

This incident has further cemented my belief in the use of a tailgate and small-mesh slider on slider up jumps. I believe it's astronomically unlikely that a small brown rubber band, cut in half lengthwise and attached loosely to the tailgate (i.e. two wraps, no larkshead) can cause a tailgate hangup. On the other hand, slider up lineovers happen in BASE, and they happen surprisingly often, more than 1 in 1000 jumps.

Of course, I used to have similar faith in the tapegate method...my malfunction in Norway last year makes me realize how even the tiniest details need to be thought through extensively.

As such, your mileage may vary.

sounds a lot like my crash in the valley last week (see incidents).

i wasn't so lucky to have a self clearing one though.

there is footage from the ground (low resolution).
shoot me a pm if you need the link.

What was your tapegate malfunction?

It's described in the link maretus posted earlier. http://www.basejumper.com/...post=2893155#2893155

Long story short: I used four wraps of normal BASE-friendly masking tape around the brake lines on a slider-up jump. The tape didn't break, bowtying the canopy for about two seconds before the tape descended the lines to just above my head.

Upon inspection, the four layers of very fragile, easily tearable masking tape had "melded" together into one very thick, rock hard piece of tape. It was strong as steel - I couldn't break it with my hands if I tried (and I tried hard). I think the humid Norwegian air may have caused the glue on each layer to seep through the tape.

That incident is why I now use a tailgate with a very loose brown skydiving rubber band, cut in half lengthwise. If I don't have a tailgate, I will still use masking tape, but I carefully "pinch" just one layer of tape around the control lines, instead of wrapping multiple layers.

I believe I've asked before, why just the brake lines and not the C/D/brakelines?

Edit: I know why I wrap all the lines, but I wonder why not the entire set since wrapping the C/D/Brakelines provides more power to break the tape or open the tailgate.

The reason I taped just the control lines is because "that's just the way I was taught".

My mentor originally taught me just to tape the brake lines, and not include the internal C/D lines. I asked him why, and he gave me the same answer I'm now giving you.

From talking with a variety of other jumpers, the impression I've gotten is that including the internal C/D lines is the norm for a tailgate, and excluding the internal C/D lines is the norm for a tapegate. I've never understood why, and have never posed the question to someone knowledgeable enough to give me a solid answer.

One guess I have is that the original inventors of the tapegate believed the pressure required to break a tapegate in the worst-case scenario is substantially less than the pressure required to break the rubber band on a tailgate in the worst-case scenario. Thus they included only the brake lines, in order to prevent the tape from breaking prematurely.

My personal belief is that including the internal C/D lines in a tapegate would increase pressure on the tape during opening, and in general would be a good idea. However, I'm not knowledgeable enough about the subject to want to give that advice to anyone (including myself). I simply don't know if including the internal C/D lines would increase or decrease risk.

P.S. For an interesting thought experiment, imagine what would have happened in the case of my tapegate malfunction if when packing I had accidentally included only 9 of the 10 brake lines in the tapegate.

..just my .02 cent.. 4-5 years ago been jumping the same sky-base vehicle, and one been packed SD but jumped 250-300m (2-3s) - and received maybe 5-6 terrible lineover - he's been like karateka until lending. but everything ends fine.. finally we discovered that he did not put out other C-D line when attaching tail-gate..and DID NOT CHECK!! (hope you understand what i mean

Pizdets!

How many SU line over have you had? How many have you seen on live?