Basejumper.com - archive

Incidents

Shortcut
3 non fatal accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
May 1st. High nose. My friend and I had been jumping all week, he was tracking with phoenix fly gear. Most of his jumps that week he had a nice track, some were kind of steep. The day of the accident he had two out of four exits that were very steep and he wasn't tracking very far. On the walk back we talked about it and he realized he was steep.
On the next jump he had another steep exit and didn't track very far, he pulled at a reasonable altitude had a 180 and was too close to the wall to turn. He hit the wall three times and landed on the talus. He broke his pelvis. The heli got him very quickly. I spoke with him today and he should make a nice recovery. Fuck the finns!!!

May 2nd The second accident I don't know to much about I only saw the heli and talked to some people, but I think a french jumper may have broken his arm.

Shortly after that a jumper that I hade been jumping with this week
jumped from the high nose flying a profly wingsuit with a Trango canopy and had a line over and spiraled very quickly into the ground he was complaining of back pain and went to the hospital for xrays.
His L1 was fractured. his pack job was no different than normal and someone commented that the one he used on the jump was perfect.
And his pull position was good.
Shortcut
Re: [jadeinthesky] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
Source:
http://www.bernerzeitung.ch/panorama/vermischtes/Drei-BaseJumper-in-Lauterbrunnen-verunglueckt/story/22868483
--
Drei Base-Jumper in Lauterbrunnen verunglückt
Aktualisiert um 16:37 UhrDrucken Mailen Artikel als E-Mail versendenEmpfänger (E-Mail)*
Absender (E-mail)*
Nachricht
Schliessen
Ihre E-Mail wurde abgeschickt.

Schliessen

Drei Männer im Alter von 23 bis 34 Jahren haben sich beim Base-Jumpen Verletzungen zugezogen. Die Unfälle ereigneten sich in Lauterbrunnen seit Freitagnachmittag.

Die drei verunglückten Base-Jumper wurden mit unterschiedlich schweren Verletzungen ins Spital gebracht, wie die Berner Kantonspolizei am Samstag mitteilte. Ein 34-jähriger Finne zog sich schwere Verletzungen zu, als er beim Sprung von der Mürrenfluh abstürzte. Er musste mit einem Helikopter der Air Glacier ins Spital geflogen werden.

Am Samstag kurz vor Mittag ereignete sich an der selben Stelle ein weiterer Unfall, wobei ein 36-jähriger Base-Jumper aus Frankreich nach dem Absprung in den Felsen hängen blieb. Er musste mit Hilfe eines Rettungshelikopters geborgen werden. Anlässlich dieser Bergungsaktion wurde unterhalb der Mürrenfluh ein weiterer verunglückter Base-Jumper entdeckt. Bei ihm handelt es sich um einen 23-jährigen Deutschen. Auch diese beiden mussten mit unterschiedlichen Verletzungen in Spital gebracht werden.
(vin/ap)

Erstellt: 02.05.2009, 16:35 Uhr
Shortcut
Re: [jadeinthesky] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
I've just spoken to the victim of the third incident. It was a line-over, and he doesn't have WLO toggles on the rig he was jumping. (I believe he does on his other rig(s)). He didn't have time to grab his hook knife. He broke his L1 vertebra, but there's no spinal damage and he's going to be OK, thank goodness. He wasn't using a tailgate or tapegate, and neither have I on this trip. I do have WLOs, but I'm putting my tailgate back on tomorrow. After I've jumped my current packjob...

I'll pull high. Wink
Shortcut
Re: [goking] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
Accidents in skydiving and base is fatalities, this is injuries? Am I wrong?

Your heading made my hearth beat 2 times faster.
Shortcut
Re: [434] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
this is the Incidents forum... I think accidents fit
Shortcut
Re: [goking] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
goking wrote:
I've just spoken to the victim of the third incident. It was a line-over, and he doesn't have WLO toggles on the rig he was jumping. (I believe he does on his other rig(s)). He didn't have time to grab his hook knife. He broke his L1 vertebra, but there's no spinal damage and he's going to be OK, thank goodness. He wasn't using a tailgate or tapegate, and neither have I on this trip. I do have WLOs, but I'm putting my tailgate back on tomorrow. After I've jumped my current packjob...

I'll pull high. Wink

Are more people using TG for SU?
Shortcut
Re: [Mac] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
More people than when? Many if not most of the people I know use a tailgate or tape regardless of slider position.
Shortcut
Re: [hookitt] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
hookitt wrote:
More people than when? Many if not most of the people I know use a tailgate or tape regardless of slider position.

My thought was always dont use a TG SU...
Shortcut
Re: [434] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
If it was a fatality I would write Fatality.
Shortcut
Re: [jadeinthesky] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
 
Words have spicific meanings. The words "accident" and "incedent" at least in the sence of formal investigations have very diffrent defenitions. The term accident is only used in the event of a fatality. Incedent implies a lesser event that did not result in a death.

Lee
Shortcut
Re: [Mac] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
Mac wrote:
hookitt wrote:
More people than when? Many if not most of the people I know use a tailgate or tape regardless of slider position.

My thought was always dont use a TG SU...

The Morpheus manual stresses this point in capital letters. As I understand it, some people do use a tailgate slider-up but only with a fine-mesh slider so the TG can't get through the mesh and somehow hang-up the slider. Personally, I use a tapegate.... but then I only have 20 slider up jumps :-)
Shortcut
Re: [RiggerLee] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
RiggerLee wrote:
The term accident is only used in the event of a fatality. Incedent implies a lesser event that did not result in a death.

That's news to me... who defined those terms? Fatality means fatality, and injury means injury... why make it complicated
Shortcut
Re: [Colm] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
We learned this terms when we where going to report incidents for emergency rescue. But this is what we learned before the media started to hype up anything they could make big headlines of, in lack of real storys. For me accident is a fatality, and minor happenings is injuries. I guess Incidents cover both?

Sorry to hijack the tread here

Hope all recover quick from their injuries.
Shortcut
Re: [Colm] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
Colm wrote:
RiggerLee wrote:
The term accident is only used in the event of a fatality. Incedent implies a lesser event that did not result in a death.

That's news to me... who defined those terms?

in the US, transportation boo-boo's get investigated but the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board). by regulation...

49CFR830 wrote:
Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation
of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the
aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have
disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or
in which the aircraft receives substantial damage.


Incident means an occurrence other than an accident, associated with
the operation of an aircraft, which affects or could affect the safety
of operations.

I added the emphasis, and eliminated the stuff that gets nasty to interpret. besides, injuries in BASE are commonly serious. many just go with, if they survived, it wasn't an accident.




ps
no matter what you call it, these 3 jumpers are suffering big time. I'm glad they survived and wish them complete recoveries!

Shortcut
Re: [Mac] Slider Up Packing
Hi Mac,

I have read numerous debates on this forum
regarding the use of tailgates and/or tape on
slider up jumps. Seemed there were many
Europeans of the opinion that the slider was
enough to prevent line-overs.

Please note I don't know shit about slider up
BASE jumping, I am simply relaying what I
read between guys who are experienced.


Lastly and most importantly I hope the guys
who broke themselves heal well and quickly!
Shortcut
Re: [Mac] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
Mac wrote:
hookitt wrote:
More people than when? Many if not most of the people I know use a tailgate or tape regardless of slider position.

My thought was always dont use a TG SU...

most of the people i know, dont use tailgate on slider up jumps. I havent ever used one on SU

Fuc..k the Finns !!
Shortcut
Re: [fastpete] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
Depends where you are or the group. In KL I met people from everywhere and a lot of tail gate or tape useage.

The discussion has occurred quite a bit on this forum. The search function isn't the best so I gave up looking for a thread but here are a few other entries.

Slider Up Tailgate


One comment thou: Mesh size really doesn't matter even if you use a tailgate. You'd have to manually put the tailgate into a large mesh slider if in fact you chose to use one. Pack a rig and and note the location of the tailgate and how it would possibly get caught in there unless you put it there on purpose.
Shortcut
Re: [hookitt] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
Sorry mate, I'm with Pete on this one. Never used a TG on a Slider up jump ever. I thought it was meant to prevent line overs when a slider wasn't being used.
At least that's how I learned it. I knows people do but for me it's just one more thing to go sideways.
Shortcut
Re: [psychokiwi_base] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
No worries, I'm pretty sure I didn't say to use one or not to, just that a lot of people do. A good portion of my immediate jumper friends do and many I've met from from other countries. Actually some of the same ones you have jumped with a lot more than I have.

People do what they are taught and some do it because they were told too and no other reason. Given my back ground, I haven't found reason not to, or, that it does nothing with a slider involved. Granted if I find evidence to the contrary I'll gladly stop and share the message.

BASE canopies get yanked to line stretch by the top of the canopy often making quite a mess. I've never had a line over in BASE or skydiving but if given the option, I still use one.

Heck I'll tell ya what, next time I talk to a canopy manufacture, which hopefully will be this week, I'll ask what their thoughts are, Will a tailgate possibly help or hinder?.

Weather permitting, I'm free on tuesday btw.
Shortcut
Re: [hookitt] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
i use a tapegate on the control lines only on SU jumps every time.

~Jake
Shortcut
Re: [GreenMachine] Slider Up Packing
In reply to:
Seemed there were many
Europeans of the opinion that the slider was
enough to prevent line-overs.

apparently they are incorrect. if that was the case you wouldn't see line overs in skydiving or s/u base. ive never seen, read or heard of a line over s/u when prevention was used. im not saying its never happened, just ive never known it to.

i always use tape for the simple reason there are no down sides to the 5 second task.
Shortcut
Re: [livenletfly] Slider Up Packing
The Europeans are mostly doing lineover resistant pack jobs (Tail and stabilizer tweaks).
Lineovers are quite common. Mostly they clear. Check your trailing edge stitching and you will see line burns. It is or should be a well known fact that the slider does inhibit lineovers but they can still happen SU or SD.
Take care,
space
Shortcut
Re: [RiggerLee] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
The point is people got hurt if it makes you open your eyes a bit more to see the word accident than good. people do dumb shit here. bottom line. even though these people didn't really do anything dumb I have seen others who have. and if you read the actual post you will see what that they didn't die. you can have a car accident and not die right. you can accidently fall down and not die. So why not a base jumping accident. please stop playing samantics and realize that I wrote this post to make people aware of what is going on.
I will change the heading to non fatal accidents just so we can get off of this bs word game
Shortcut
Re: [jadeinthesky] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
How many jumps, and what kind of training did he have with tracking gear?

We will se an increase in incidents if more jumpers skip the basic training and jump on tools they do not handle.

Wingsuits and tracking gear, is powerful tools which have to be handled with respect.

Start with basic tracking, tracking suits, prodigy, small wings, big wings, and do the basic training from airplanes. Have experienced jumpers to guide you, and listening to those who will share information. Not everybody can or will be like Robert and his team or VKB.

Know your personal limits, you can be lucky once, twice, tree times, but one day your lucky bucket is empty, and you have to pay. Dwain Weston had an article long time ago about the same issue. He is not here today to tell.
Shortcut
Re: [base283] Slider Up Packing
I was taught to jump SU without the tailgate. After jumping a bunch of times with some friends, I noticed all of them using either a tailgate or tape for SU jumps.

Talked to my mentor regarding this and both of us believe that the tailgate does reduce the chance of a lineover. He also added that one of the primary drivers for the slider is the outward pressure from the control lines, as the tail expands. “The tailgate holds those lines in, so using both the tailgate and the slider will slow the slider's movement. On short delays (3-6 seconds) this is very noticeable. On terminal jumps, it's pretty hard to tell”.

I have a fine mesh and use the tailgate on all my SU terminal jumps. Getting a large hole mesh soon and according to the manufacturer, it’s hard to get the tailgate caught in one of the holes. You will have to manually place it in. It also depends on how much the hole can stretch. Some sliders stretch more than others. The one I am getting is in between the large and fine mesh.

hizam
Shortcut
Re: [jadeinthesky] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
You spelled "semantics" wrong.Cool
Take care,
space
Shortcut
Re: [jadeinthesky] 3 non fatal accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
This has been said before, but I'd like to bring it up again. No doubt we will start to see more and more of these (specifically speaking about incident #1, but mean no disrespect to said person involved) incidents in LB because of who is jumping there now. I personally know of 8-10 people planning jumping trips to the valley this season who, IMO, have no business jumping those walls. Jumpers are starting earlier and earlier to jump the "big walls of Europe". The scary part is, most of them know LB has shorter cliffs and solid tracking is a must. They get there, can't track for shit, have the 180, and the rest is history.

If this gets through to just one newbie than amen.

PS If you have your whole 7 terminal A jumps back home and think you are ready for the LB valley, re-think and plan a Kjerag trip. You'll thank me later for it.

PSS Lets knock all this bullshit out about incidents and accidents and defining them. This forum is for education purposes on whatever the fuck they are. Thanks to the OP for putting this up. We CAN learn from it!
Shortcut
Re: [base283] 3 accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
Thanks, I knew it was wrong but I did it anyways.
Shortcut
Re: [dride] 3 non fatal accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
dride wrote:
This has been said before, but I'd like to bring it up again. No doubt we will start to see more and more of these (specifically speaking about incident #1, but mean no disrespect to said person involved) incidents in LB because of who is jumping there now. I personally know of 8-10 people planning jumping trips to the valley this season who, IMO, have no business jumping those walls. Jumpers are starting earlier and earlier to jump the "big walls of Europe". The scary part is, most of them know LB has shorter cliffs and solid tracking is a must. They get there, can't track for shit, have the 180, and the rest is history.

If this gets through to just one newbie than amen.

PS If you have your whole 7 terminal A jumps back home and think you are ready for the LB valley, re-think and plan a Kjerag trip. You'll thank me later for it.

PSS Lets knock all this bullshit out about incidents and accidents and defining them. This forum is for education purposes on whatever the fuck they are. Thanks to the OP for putting this up. We CAN learn
from it!


Well said
Shortcut
Re: [jadeinthesky] 3 non fatal accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
Footage of the accident (lineover one)
http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=channel
Shortcut
Re: [dride] 3 non fatal accidents in 2 days in Lauterbrunnen
 
I think you just have to get used to the fact that there will never be a shortage of jumpers who have no respect for/knowledge of the jumps they attempt. Because of this the rate of nonsensical injuries/fatalities will predictably go up.