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after a successfully run off (195ft building static line), i had a 180, but i was able to do to jump off(against) from this building.
as
after flying my chute off the object , i could land my chute normally with unstowed brakes.


sorry for my mistuping, i am under influenze


holm

Glad you made it, when you sober up, and if you feel like it, would you mind sharing the details of how you handled it?

Yea, I would also be interested in hearing what technique you used to get it turned away and off of the building.

did you actually run off the exit or is that just your wording?
if you did a running exit s/l that could cause off headings.

yes, i think thats exactly whats happend(my secound opening help, was a 48"F111PC)

to green, pure luck and a hard kick against the building and a fast turn with deep brakes and my left rear riser

p.S: chute is a troll265 MDV (this thing saved my live!

I tnink you need to lay off the hot apple wine.

Can you explain why in more detail?

couple thoughts i have. im no fjc master but i do have a brain.
running off exit, the canopy will be coming off the back at an angle achieving line stretch all before the the break cord busts. when the cord finally breaks 2 things will happen, dramatic downward force dragging the canopy as your body pendulum's backward starting the canopy to surge.
what caused this 180? i cant answer that exactly. i can tell you that the described deployment is a pretty ugly one and all those things happening on the same opening will greatly increase chances of poor heading. especially if the jumpers is in any way asymetrical during the surge portion loading up one side of the canopy more than the other while it pressurizes.
improperly rigged s/l or too many separate pieces/ loops of breakcord would also center cell strip amplifying the above even greater. its hard to say without seeing the jump so i dont exactly know what happened but i do know that running off with a s/l just sounds like a poor choice.
kudo's to the man for keeping himself alive though!

philisophicaly speaking id say that not trusting his gear, packing, rigging or the safe choice of the static line method caused the 180 because he instead trusted an unorthodox exit causing the very thing he was most worried about having. a 180.

good job working the problem and not getting busted up. that must have been quite a night!

my theory...

gravity...

see attached...

1.the black dot on the red line is the tie off point.

2. the red line is the plane that the bridle, canopy, lines, and eventually the movement of all of these is on.


If you think about how you packed, the mass of your canopy is on the "A" side of the red line. Gravity could roll it over to the "C" side by the time you "surged" or the canopy "surged"

Set up your rig in the back yard and tie your bridle to something chest high and walk straight away opening the container and hitting line stetch. You can watch the canopy roll over, 180.

I dont think it would "roll over" if the red line is in a more vertical plane.

just a thought

First off, to the original poster, good job working the problem.

My own feeling is that running or even launching hard on a static line jump is pointless and possibly dangerous. On a freefall jump, you launch to give yourself more distance from the object on opening. But if you've got a static line or PCA set up, you know right away that you're not going to get further than ~10-20 feet from the object before that canopy starts inflating (30 feet before line stretch, minus the fact that you're falling, too). In exchange, as others have pointed out, you're deploying your canopy in a weird position and you'll be oscillating when you open (which can suck even at 160 feet, and can be disastrous much lower than that). Add to that, too, that static line deployments, when done right, are bizarrely reliable, so that the 180 that you're hedging for is really, really unlikely.

If you're launching much harder, on a S/L jump, than you need to to clear the object, you're compromising the tremendous reliability of a S/L deployment for a tiny, 10-20 foot advantage in the event of what was (before you made the decision to launch hard) a highly unlikely event.

without any proof , pictures or video i won't believe a single word this guy posts about jumping.

i think that very likely and possible. theres too many reasons this was a bad idea.

So, do you prefer deep brakes or medium brakes or shallow brakes for low S/L? Do you tie off at the middle of the bridle, or the end?

I've been tying off the bridle's middle and packing in shallow brakes lately, and it means a world of difference in the distance covered and the surge experienced, btw -- especially if the PC is taken off, I had to literally S-turn to get down in time; whereas

in deep brakes, large PC on, end of bridle tie-off -- unstow and land 30m from the B, a lot less canopy time, worse / longer inflation;

all this in the same weather conditions, same 190-ish ft object).

hey dan,
i prefer med or deep brakes. as far as where on the bridle i always just rig the s/l at the pc attachment loop unless its super low like 130' or less. i would use shallow if i needed maximum glide to reach a landing area though. just haven't needed to.
you must be jumping non vented if you feel you get quicker inflation in shallow brakes. i always thought deep brakes gives me quicker pressurization but maybe that's because all my jumps are with vented canopies.

2 things really caught my eye on your post. removing the p/c on s/l jumps and s turning to burn off alti.
i would really urge you to re think not having a p/c attached. to me that's just plain CRAZY! more than one jumpers have died doing this. your basically putting your life in the trust of some cotton fibers called breakcord. even if you double up shit still happens. improper rigging, what you tied off to can fail as well. ive had a bad pca off a 160 ft'r and the only reason im still walking is because i put a 46" on last min. i had canopy just 25 ft over the ground!
im not trying to tell anybody what to do. we are all free to jump how wee see fit, but that just sounds like a bad idea brudda.
also why s-turn? sink that shit in, far more controllable and safer at low jumps. just a thought, just an opinion take it for what its worth.
peace
jeff

also if you dont jump out on exit you wont surge no matter what brake setting.
i always just hop off vertical.

I would personally never jump S/L without a PC. With a break-cord and PC you have 2 chances of canopy deployment, with just the break-cord, just 1....
Also, IMHO, deep breaks (depending how deep of course) tend to limit the forward speed & increase downward speed (more towards the "sink") as such leading to less canopy time. I can not really image that just the remoal of the PC will create a noticeable longer canopy ride.

Ronald

I got 10 seconds from full pressurization on a 180ft tower, 11 seconds from full pressure on a 195ft B, and 10 seconds full pressure from a 195ft cliff with landing area around 180ft. BJ260w/ZP Always deep breaks

Very consistent numbers.

Also, unless I need more length for some reason, I always tie into the bridle as close to the container as possible. I've heard that the longer your static line is (sl=what ever your tying to and the bridle) the more effect the jerk force has on the break cord and the more likely you are to have the break cord pop pre-mature. I also use the length of the SL and where I tie into the bridle to set where my canopy's going to be when the break cord pops. And always use my ZP vented 46. I'm considering getting an f111 48 or 50.

ditto

I once jump SL from a 140' bridge. You can cleary see on the video that my 48" PC finish to open my canopy... We guess that my 2 pin where too tight on my container so the break cord wasn't enough to open it and inflate my chute...

So keep your PC in place, you never know when you need it! BTW, my two pins are slack now!!!! no problem anymore!! untill next time

How can your pins possibly be so tight as to break 80 pound break cord, but your 48" PC is strong enough to pull them at such a slow speed?

i think the shock load, combined with the lack of a backup loop causes this.
i had the same two weeks ago on a velcro rig with unprimed, good condition velcro.and no backup loop.
i don't know exactly what and when it happened though.
just that the 48 also took my canopy to linestretch in time for a nice 4 sec canopy ride.
i will use a backup loop from now on.
it was my first sl with a velcro rig, i also won't do that again. that shit belongs to the museum.

Hey Mr Prick....

i dont think its the velcro rig that is shit - its the user......