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We had an accident today at Karlskråtind Norway! There is no witness of the jump. The jumper is from Oslo Norway. I have no further information at the moment.

This is the worst start for a basejumper season ever. Know you limits, know your gear and exit point. Take your time, and have respect for the weather.

The name have been released for the media!

Gorm Irgens Østlie, 39 years from Oslo Norway died jumping from Karlskråtind Romsdalen in Norway 8 april 2009.

Gorm and another jumper was on the exit ready to jump, both whearing wingsuits. They knew it was South east wind in the area, but on exit it was no wind. Gorm wanted to see fellow jumpers flight before he made up his mind, about where his flight line would be. The other jumper never saw his jump, and there where no other witnesses on the ground. The scenario is just based on what I think have happened.

We know Gorm have jumped off, and flown a route to the wright from exit, Impacted, or landed in a crack. He was missing for about 2 hours, before something was located in a snow avelance started on a top of a mountain coming out of the crack. The rescue personnel logged the area from helicopter when they arrived, and did see some fabric and a shoe sticking up of the snow. Due to the dangerous area, they decided not to do any further actions, before the area was stabile. The snow avelance was huge, and it still continue to come down rocks and snow around in the area, also around in the valley. At this point they classified the situation as a body recover, and not a rescue operation, due to the time factor, and how they analysed the situation. Two friends of him went later in the dark, to recover his body, without informing the police, or rescue personell. Later they got the body down with the police and help from rescue personnel. The jumpers have later got critic for the uninformed, and unplanned action, while the police did research for the snow condition, making further plans for action.

Conclusion I have, and it is only what I think what happened. Gorm have choosed to fly a line to the wright, after se his friend fly straight out from the exit using wingsuit. We know there was south east wind, and this have huge influence for this area. He might have flown proximity, and with this wind condition he would have met great turbulence, and wavewinds along the mountainside that have taken him out!

This is the first fattality from Karlskråtind in the 24 years history since it was first jumped

Excuse all my spelling and grammar fails!

South E wind Karlskråtind
http://www.youtube.com/...feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/...ek#p/u/0/HJazqEQssKE

Sad to hear it. My condolences to family and friends. :-(

This is terrible news. My heart goes out to his friends and family

I met, jumped, and partied with him in the area back in 07. Great person, great jumper......so sad.

Fly on Bono (I still have not met anyone that looks more like him than you)........................

434 - Had he been doing more proxy flying?

Paul,

Any chance you can draw his line of flight (as you think) over the terrain and post it here?

It would help us see whether it was the line that required maxed out flying in the first place (with wind possibly reducing glide ratio), or it was mid-range-performance proximity flying where turbulence veered him into the cliff.

Thanks.
Yuri

or maybe those who did not see it have no clue what line was flown, yuri, get off the figure-it-all-out sherlock holmes mentality.

you are an eager assumptive dickhead when it comes to these crashes. if you weren't there, you didn't see, you don't know. remember that.

welcome back JT.

I don't ws, but I tend to agree with you. maps work at a general level, not a detailed one. I have yet to see a hiking map that fully described the actual path.

then in ws, the flyer chooses his glide angle. people make choices, and then get surprised.

heck, I'm not even sure if the data from a GPS unit would be good enough for what is requested.

BUT, precise, cold analysis might help some grieve...

Can you tell about how turbulence affects proximity flights? What about wavewinds?

Hehe, don't the rules you're supposed to be enforcing, say "Personal attacks and hate posts will not be tolerated in any forum."? Instead, you say, "Welcome!"


Again, it feels strange for a user to explain to Moderator that the Incidents forum is for LEARNING from incidents, not for grieving (although obviously nobody would object grieving). Think about it more as NTSB, rather than a Church.

Since you don't fly WS, you might be surprised that just a pair of numbers - height and distance from exit to impact - may provide some actual insight on what might have happened and how to avoid it. While nobody saw the flight, Paul might know the location where the body was retrieved and estimate where the point of impact was.

Don't take this too seriously, though. It's all good. Seriously.

Yuri

Im not a scientist on the area, but after long time as a skijumper, skydiver, and basejumper, you learn downwind turbulence is the shit! I have met great winds in the area over the years that have surprised me many times, and even taken me out on a high energi tracking jump. Dead wind at the wall, and met the wavewind turbulence down the midle of the tallus, that flipped me twice over to my back. I wish I had the video somewhere, and I know Robert have seen it, and migth got it. If you see that video, you would know what kind of forces I am talking about. There is jumpers with knownledge who can give you better answers than me with my poor english.

It is interesting to see every time the jumping taking a new way, we forget all the knowledge we have gained since the beginning, when the main focus was just to survive.

This is a message I got yesterday from a old time jumper and pilot
"We all learn early in our parachuting careers: DO NOT LAND DOWNWIND OF OBSTACLES because the turbulence can collapse or otherwise distrub your flight and cause problems.

The same is obviously true of a wingsuit, It is a flying machine just like a parachute or an airplane and when I got my pilot lilcense and my "mountain flying checkout," it was AGAIN emphasized that turbulence can take you out.

In mountain airplane flying, the biggest threat is a downdraft that is stronger than your airplane's ability to maintain altitude.

As you said, it's hard to know exactly what happened with Gorm, but it seems to me that there needs to be much more discussion about turbulence for people doing proximity flying - AND much more HOMEWORK abut micrometeorology and airflow over and around mountain features at different windspeeds.

People are now flying so close to the ground that even minor turbulence can change their trajectories and lift - and because they have no power even the slightest downdaft can become fatal before you even have a chance to notice it - much less try to respond."

 
Yuri.

So WHAT if it was a line he maxed out on, what difference is it going to make for you? So WHAT if the winds were wrong, it just supports an already known fact. I can't believe I'm posting on this, but you irk me.

Ginny

obviously, I dont like your style because of your "its too bad we lost shane to some bindings he should nto have trusted" comment.

I am for the analyze and figure it out approach too, and I have been struggling and searching for clues to what exactly happened to Shane. If and when i get a morsel more of concrete useful knowledge, i will share it with the community.

but you, you act like you know it all or got it all figured out and you have NO idea if it was the binding to blame. no clue at all. and here again, you bring the same sort of attitude (as if you know it was a flight plan thing, when what we do know, is that no one knew his flight plan, because he said he would decide after the first guy went)

anyway, this is totally off topic for this thread and i will apologize for bringing my beef into Gorm's thread.

Thanks for bringing up these issues paul, important and scary shit.

and your english is not that bad at all! but you need to stop using so many exclamation points!! (these thingys: !)

condolences to Norway crew.

That would not give you any information of value! The topografi around in the valley is also a part of what is happening at a specific route. Let me put it this way: In a windtunnel blowing straight from behind at exit point, then you put a big block behind exit, add a new wind directions from the side 45 degrese angel between two thick poles, and then you open up for a rotor in the middel, and a pulsing wind (wavewind) from the side. What we get is totally caos, and not a situation any jumper should be flying proximity.

This is the easiest way to explain S E wind in Romsdalen.

JT, your perceptions about "you act like you know it all or got it all figured out" are (by)products of your inflamed imagination.

I ask questions when I want to learn as much as possible about the incident. I ask questions when I don't know all the answers and haven't got it all figured out. Any technical info is always useful. Just saying word "wind" does not say much. If the wind on top was nill, was the wind in mid altitudes detectable anyhow? Is this condition - strong, turbulent winds (how much?) at mid altitudes - prevailing micrometeorology of this site? Learning about the possible flight line might help us see what exactly boundaries he crossed that he shouldn't have crossed so future jumpers don't step on the same rakes.

Thank you for your private message in which you wish I died. I felt very privileged to receive such an important message directly from Red Bull Airforce Athlete!

No offense meant, no offense taken. Peace.

Yuri

+1

When somone goes in, I think the whole "gimme the facts and details" is inane. Someone died, and it’s terribly sad, really sad, even if I don’t know them, I feel pain. I don’t need to know each and every detail of a jumpers passing, because I don’t actually think we learn anything of worth from it. Knowing what bindings Shane had, knowing if this guy was proxy flying in squirrelly winds, none of it will help you. We will all continue to make our own decisions, we will all continue to try and minimise and control the risks for us, just as everyone who has gone in has done..... we think about our own mortality and do everything to ensure we don’t go in. Not once have I had consideration of someone on the list when gear checking, or planning a jump, I think about me not them.
The whole we must learn from the mistakes, I think in BASE is mislead. People have gone in, and some have made some fundamental mistakes. But you should not be making fundamental mistakes in this sport, as you will die. Surely we are through the gear and method testing phase in the sport, we know what works, and it is now the very much incalculable human input that we are trying to learn from..... to me thats impossible. Yes the sport is progressing into new areas, (proxy flight, ski base etc..... but still, the flight concepts and deployment theory is not that different to what is known already..... people fuck up, not winds or gear).
Intricacy of fatalities are worthless to learn from, what we do is a hectic and ever changing in an organic environment. You can do everything right and die........ so whats to learn from that? Just that you might just die jumping.

Thoughts to family and friends.......

I think we can all agree that people make mistakes, and gear is never to blame. Even if gear fails it was the persons mistake for not knowing or inspecting their gear better.

Anyone that says we can not learn from the list or from other peoples mistakes is letting emotion cloud their judgment. If you don't think it is appropriate to discuss an incident like this because of the deceased's family, or because it is so soon after the incident, say that.

People have and always will learn from the past. Trial and error and Logical stereotypes are great examples. A pitbull bit me, another pitbull bit me, oh shit there's a pitbull.

I've never been bitten by a pitbull and everyone I have met has been a loving awesome dog.

Well lets say. What CAN we learn from this?

We dont know about the flight route. We don't know about the fatality mecanism or incident mecanism.

Talking about routes would be futile.

THough. We can learn from Pauls comments about down wind. Its a very common situation, cause as BASE-jumpers we dont jump in head wind on mountains... We often jump in "back wind" The wind from behind the mountain creates the turbulense rotor underneeth the exit poiunt which creates a phenomenon that we often call "dead air". Its a fealing of no lift, less controle and a strange fealing.

To jump in this condition takes some knoledge and planning.. and it needs to be an object where you can loose a lot of altitude without impacting.

You have to calculate that the down wind will give you a longer drop before being able to fly out. You need higher stall speed for this, because of the down wind.

When you fly in a wing suit , your lift will be decreased a lot. You cant fly as close verticle as in other more stable situation. Its easy to fly your self into a tight spot where you can't use your register in the wings to lift up above the tight spot and change your flight verticle.

We dont know if this was the problem for Gorm. But there is a chanse...

ANother thing coming in to play here is cold air. FLying over cold ground, as a glacier or snow will give you much less lift. THis will give a similair effect as the down wind, but maybe not as strong.

On a day like this, when they jumped, maybe taking a safer route flying straight or not jumping would have been the plan, but agan... we dont really know what caused the problem.

How did the other jumper experiense the free fall and the flight, any problems?

JT and Yri. THis is the INcident forum, so we should talk about incidents and try to understand them. But we need to keep our self to the facts and thing about respecting our fellow jumpers with maybe more sensitive conections to the cases. Give it time for the locals and the friends to both handle the pain of loosing a friend and to figure out what happend so they can give a real report with facts and without hypothetic ideas.

stay educated and stay disco

Yuri,

You are really a dull and boring stodger. Should I have said - a dickhead?

I believe I have to explain my previous post.

Yuri,

You are really a very dull and disgusting person, judging by your posts here.

Your questioning style remind me of a district cop - (NOT Sherlock Holmes - he was a genius and you are a mediocrity). He comes to a murder site, takes out his notebook, a pen, comes to the weeping wife of the dead man, and starts : "alright maam , i have to ask you a few questions... what did you see? what do you know?" He doesn't care about her grief. He is just doing his job. He will forget about it as soon as the job is done.

But he is more useful than you. He may really find a murderer. In what way are your questions are useful at all? Do you think people are so so stupid and don't know that the information should be posted? why the fuck do you remind about it?

If there's any info, it'll be here sooner or later. If there's not, you will never learn it.

Fuck you.

Could you explain this please? I was always under the impression that colder air is more dense and stable and makes for better general flying conditions. As the ground warms up, you get thermals which are great for lift but also bring turbulance..

Cold air is more dense, but on a glacier or snow covered mountain the air will flow downhill (also called a gravity wind ). Valleys will also "drain" their cold air downhill. -cold air flows down, warm air flows up
catabatic/anabatic

This is assumption, but I'm guessing as air cools and creates higher pressure in the cold air, it might also lower pressure in the surrounding air.

And if it's sliding down hill, it will probably vacuum more air into the area it is leaving, lowering pressure, and then cool that air and cycle like that.

My experience of proximity flying is that wind direction, turbulence and temp really doesnt matter that much. If it is a really strong wind in the area you might feel it, but it desnt affect you in a radical way.

I often read threads here about all this wind talk, but have never experienced your assumptions in real life.

I am really sorry for Gorm. I know it happened because he did a mistake. It caused it his life. It is a shitty thing being part of a sport where people die so often. But I have realized that it just happens, and it happens all the time. Based on my own experiences, I am convinced Gorm did not die because of a natural factor, he died because of a human factor.

It is still just a terrible though.

PS: This thread sucks big time. Almost as big as the thread about Shane. The combination of the deadly basejumping and internet is obviously making us to one big bunch of cynical human beings. It is terrible. Just damn hopeless. Fuck us all for that.

Espen

Really, I love dogs.......... CYA

I know the more experinced you are, and the more knownledge you have sucked in during the years, you might make different choices. I know this year there will come more jumpers to Romsdalen, and well known information we take for granted is not for most of them. Then we have to make sure the information is out there.. I agree on people make mistakes, and will continue to make mistakes, but I really believe we will also make some jumpers to think twice.

When it comes to proximity jumping, there is just a couple of handfull jumpers who really have the knownledge and experience to handle most situations, and even they play the game with the lucky coin in the hand sometimes.

Yep thats what I ment. Cold air is much more stable than hot air. But cold air flows downhill. In free fall you won't feel this but you will end up lower cause you are flying in air who flows down.

As Espen says, the movement of wint doesnt allways effect the flying. But I have to say that jumping in the norwegian mountains is more about good or bad weather. When its jumpeable weather the air is often cold or natural temprature. It seldom gets very warm in the norwegian mountains.
In the alps or in Mohab, air tends to get very warm and turbulense is a problem, and I have found my self in really bad turbulenses some times. ITW is famous for its windy phenomenon called the Aura wind. Its a combination of hot and cold wind moving up and down the valley on different levels.

In Romsdal the wind, and especially the south east wind can be very violent in the area arond Karlskårtind and the Troll wall.

My experience is that when I jump in decent weather in Norway I never get effected by the wind in wing suit, but in the alps, good conditions can suddensly be very bad because of different heat-winds.

Good information & thoughts.
Thanks For The Info.
BTW - Your English is fine!

Condolences.

I am reading through this forum and this particular thread and I am concerned about the thought process of some members of the jumping community - even though I am a supporter of people choosing their own path / destiny / etc.

Even though each individual is entitled to decide how (s)he will think and act, I don't beleive it is a reasoned thought process that excludes or critisises another persons methodology & thinking - especially when this decision is made on emotion or for personal reasons. Just because I think that someone is an asshole, it does not necessarily mean that I cannot learn something from them or that they should be allowed to learn from the experience of others. Just because a dear friend has been involved in an accident, it does not necessarily mean that I cannot learn from their experience.

Learnings and memories of good times are the two main positives that you can gain from the loss of a loved one or friend - IMHO.

Grieving is a natural process, but it is also a process that affects how we think & act:
http://www.recover-from-grief.com/7-stages-of-grief.html - this site explains very loosely what I mean.

The stages are:
1. SHOCK & DENIAL
2. PAIN & GUILT
3. ANGER & BARGAINING
4. DEPRESSION, REFLECTION, LONELINESS
5. THE UPWARD TURN
6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH
7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE

OR

1. Shock
2. Suffering
3. Recovery

Where we fit into this depends on how well we knew the person, our personalities, our previous life experience, etc.
The natural reaction of most people who were close to the victim is to dip heavily into the first stage and to defend and deny at all costs. This will always happen. In practical terms people will say things like "mind your own f%#$king business, don't analyse my friends death, (s)he did not make a mistake, etc" - these people are in shock/denial to some extent.

People who were not close and/or tend to be impersonal tend to start at the later stages - they are in solution mode already. These people really irk those that were close and are in the earlier stages of grief. Hence some of the "conversations" on these forums following fatalities.

Enough of the psychology crap.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Now to the comments and this thread.

yuri_base's question was probably a bit too specific in some respects. But I think that it has the makings of a GREAT technical article. Given that more and more people are contour flying with wingsuits, and that MANY do not "really" know what they are doing, this information would be VERY helpful - AND WOULD SAVE LIVES IN THE FUTURE! Basically, the lower your margin for error, the more technical information you need to make the right decisions. If you do not have all the technical information to start with - then how do you work out your margin for error??

Specifically, I am not defending yuri_base here on a personal level and I have not followed his posts before (so I cannot comment on the personal angst people are feeling & showing towards him - I do not know underlying information). However, writing him off because he wants to know more is IMHO, not the right thing to do. Speaking of learning, yuri_base may have a learning on how to approach the group in the future wrt political correctness, style of posts, compassion, etc.

We DO NOT know everything that needs to be known about contour flying!!! This is a 3 dimensional activity and we have to learn how to predict winds & turbulence, judge our physics (forward speed, descent rate, glide ratio), and fit our skills level into this mix of information, etc. Asking questions is one way of learning and improving this body of knowledge. I was attemping contour flying (very basic compared to the amazing flights being flown now) in the late nineties with a home made wingsuit and virtually no previous experience and knowledge. By definition the sport has evolved and the few flights that I did then would be considered a non event now - as with everything, I wold have loved to know then what I & OTHERS know now.

I think Robbie P or Yuri K or one of the Norgies could write this one!!! "The impact of micrometeorology on contour wingsuit flights". Thanks to 434, Martin, Espen ,etc for their insights and opinions. I have refreshed my knowledge in this area.

Another thing I have found about reporting of BASE fatalities is that invariably, if no one asks lots of questions, not much information gets posted. So despite pissing off those closest to the deceased, someone needs to chase the info.

Other examples of learning methodology:
- A simple spit test on a lower jump will tell you a great deal about how your pilot chute will inflate, how the canopy will extract and deploy, it will give clues as to potential headings, etc. The spit test was NOT there on the first BASE jump. It was a tool that probably came about a little later! After someone learned from a previous incident. After the body of knowledge increased. After someone dared to ask a question beyond the shit happens mentality.
- I was Dir Safety of the ABA for several years. One of the first things we learned early on was that the standard BASE parachute used at the time did not have the aerodynamic flight performance that suited the landing conditions in which we jumped and the flying techniques of most jumpers. This resulted in lots of little niggling ankle/knee/wrist injuries. We then sourced more appropriately designed gear from elsewhere and the injury rate declined drammatically. We asked questions, we analysed, we progressed! The process was: "I hurt my ankle" -> "it seems like a few people are getting little injuries" -> "lets ask the other jumpers what they think" -> "lets get videos to see what is happening" -> "look at the canopy descent as they start to flare" -> "lets try different techniques and test them" -> "lets talk to some design gurus" -> - - - - "lets get a different design canopy".
- One of the early BASE fatalities (#39) taught me a great deal about mental approach on big wall jumps. We (myself, DW, etc) analysed the incident extensively. The end result was an article written by me about the differences between skydiving and BASE jumping which has been plagiarised in many places. This one was very basic but it highlighted to people that big wall BASE jumps were NOT skydives and that both your mental and physical approach need to be different! Same thing happened leading to a BASE ethics article. Their intention was basic knowledge and to make people think.
- I have gone through every BASE fatality in the past and have learned from every one of them! Even when the information was sketchy or assumptive. This is the mind map / brainstorm approach to learning. Get ALL the ideas onto the table and then sift through what is relevant and what is not.

DEATH - is not a favourable outcome for anyone - especially for those loved ones and friends left behind. I think I have some experience in this. I personally knew BASE fatality list members 28, 40, 44, 49, 54, 65, 84, 85, 91, 102, 109, 115,
I was also aquainted with or met 27, 43, 62, 71, 98, 105, 106, 131.

Why do I mention this?

I learned from every one of them! Some of it is only reinforcement. But this is important too.
28 - If you do not feel right - don't go. Learn how to become one with your canopy -> get onto controls asap.
40 - don't assume all talents are transferable. Listen to others. Fix issues you have.
44 - Learn to crawl before you walk. Sub terminal air speeds required a mix of gymnastic/aerobatic manouvres as well as flying skills to correct positioning. Don't look down. This was the initial incident that led DW to maximising aerobatic skills and writing his aerobatics "curriculum".
49 - BASE jump first, do other stuff second. Awareness.
54 - gear selection, configuration, etc

Many learnings were around psychology and people's willingness to learn from others, to listen to others, not to make assumptions, and to accept that they have limits of skills and abilities which should be slowly improved over time.

I actually learned a hell of a lot more than mentioned here, but I am a little time limited to go into details.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Answers to some quotes from this thread:



You can't keep using this line of logic for everything that happens in life. Yes, shit does happen. But we do make conscious choices in EVERYTHING we do. Some people decide not to decide. Some decisions are made without all the available knowledge. And not making a decision is a decisions too!

You seem to agree with this anyway:
http://www.basejumper.com/...rum.cgi?post=2904932



The first part - you are entitled not to know. The second part I disagree with vehimently. I have learned and will continue to learn from people's incident and accidents - including my own! No matter how tragic the outcome.


All thoughts have some basis in the past. Whether it is from a dream, or a complex incident report, or someone's questions. If you have read the fatality list, you have that knowledge. Your mind (whether conscious or sub-conscious) WILL use that knowledge. Your decisions are based on data - life experiences, conversations, reports, whatever. It is all data - and you DO use it. In order for you to do "everything to ensure we don’t go in", you will build skills, learn, etc. This is not some magic process, but a result of your past, present, and future conditioning, learning, attitude, etc. Yes, you think about you on your jumps, but your thoughts are affected by what happened to them!


Cool response! I am sorry for your loss.


Yes, people are the root cause of most incidents. But equipment can be an issue too. Sometimes humans create new things that are intended to help. They do this with best intentions, and with all available information. And then there is an incident that teaches us something new, yet again. Is this a failing? Or evolution? Designs, procedures, and techniques change yet again to incorporate this new body of knowledge. We evolve.


I disagree. An example is Spacy Tracy's information about local wind conditions at Brento. I have used that knowledge and would not have known prior if he did not share it. I did not have to learn it myself. Thanks Tracy!


We are getting closer here I believe. If we find out that jumping wingsuits when the temperature is less than X and the wind is from the Y that our lift capabilities are reduced by Z % - do you think that people in the future could use that knowledge? The answer is a resounding YES. We all know of sites that should only be jumped in certain conditions. Antenna jumping has specific rules associated with winds and direction. Why not specific cliffs and meteorological conditions? Nice post Martin!


Have you ever read any information about BASE jumping and used it to your advantage????? Again, I am not defending yuri_base as I think his approach needs to be modified, but since when do two wrong approaches make one right?????


Yeah - you hit the nail right on the head. We lose friends BASE jumping (physically) and then we lose more friends in forums (emotionally). It would be nice if people were nice instead of nasty!

Thanks.



Fly free Gorm. My deepest condolences to crew and family.

Summer is upon us, do your best to play safe everyone.

word. most important line of the post by far. CRM importance level ONE.
Know everything, know the line, the wind at all locations and altitudes, what way the water is flowing, your equipment, the route out.

Fly Free bro...
Condolences to family and friends...

Very nice...thanks

Looks like I messed up some of my reply:

Here is a correction of sorts:


I agree. An incident forum is about incidents and any discussions that assist in learning is fruitful - but it MUST be done respectfully of the deceased and all the mourning people left behind. There are also issues about cause of death / law / insurance / etc that must be considered. The reality is that any death or insurance should be investigated properly. But public commentary CAN have an affect on the process. The commentary absolutely does have an affect on loved ones.


You learn from experience - that experience is a conversation, an article, a book, a mistake (yours or others), a thought, a . . . . . . . Some people are still making fundamental mistakes because they are not learning - OR they have no respect for what they are doing or their lives - OR they do not have the intellectual capacity to understand and absorb - OR they are just plain in denial about existing facts.

Yes, we know a lot about what works. But given that the human race evolves, we continue to learn new things. Our contour flying knowledge will be much greater in 12 months than now because we ARE still learning.

You are right about the human factor - that is the area of greatest potential in terms of safety and self preservation. Humans are smart enough - but how do you make them use those smarts for their own good???? That my dear friend is psychology!

I disagree about our learning & knowledge reaching it's limit. An example is Spacy Tracy's information about local wind conditions at Brento. I have used that knowledge and would not have known prior if he did not share it. I did not have to learn it myself. Thanks Tracy! This knowledge had allowed me (and lots of others) to maximise the value I get out of a jump at Brento - and to be safer doing it!

Yuri,

I believe that you are a very nice person with an analytical mind. You are truly interested in facts and numbers, the analysis of those, and the conclusions drawn. Your questioning, approach, and attitude may be at times “socially awkward”, but my observation is that you always check your ego at the door, and really are only seeking knowledge.

Thanks for having the analytical mind and patience that you have. I hope all is well with you.

Regards,

Tom Dancs

I did remember it worse than it looks on the video, but we where struggling right there!
Here is the video of me and Kristians jump!
http://www.youtube.com/...feature=channel_page

Thats the same wall as in the "track or die" right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OIWLPEOJgU

Were there more people that actually outtracked the ledge without any type of tracking suit? That clip always amazed me, baaallz!

Sorry for offtopic

Since we had the discussion here about the possibility about the wind could have been a factor, I will post this clip here as well.

http://www.youtube.com/...ek#p/u/0/HJazqEQssKE