Basejumper.com - archive

I arrived on a Friday and started jumping the next day. I decided the REGA insurance was a good idea, and that I'd buy it first thing on Monday when the Post Office opened. So of course on Sunday I have a hard pull on the one jump I decide to take things a little deeper than I should. I get my PC out on my second attempt, opened at treetop height and crashed into one without having time to unstow my brakes. Not my finest hour, and it's taught me lessons about PC packing, pull technique, etc. that I won't forget.

I was completely unharmed, and although I could have attempted to climb down myself, I thought it would be best to be rescued by professionals. Despite attempts to establish how much this would cost, the two rescuers didn't know. It'll be a few hundred CHF, I thought. Wrong! Invoice arrives in the post today. 1641.70 CHF!

I'm very grateful for the rescue, and they even managed to get my canopy down, but I'm sorry, that's an unreasonable amount. The bulk of the cost is listed as "Compensation reporting application" and "Swiss Alpine Rescue Expenses", and there's also a mystery third person whose time cost 172 CHF.

I've not paid anything yet, so the ball's in my court, but what to do with it? Could I contest the amount? Surely I had a right to know how much it would cost me before deciding to be rescued?

No, I didn't take out travel insurance. No, never returning to Switzerland isn't an option.

jezus... just pay the bill....

Next time you'll be thinking about climbing down that tree yourself

If I was religious, I woul'd just add "amen".

If thats for a couple of guy's climbing a tree, just imagine what a heli rescue would cost...

Who is this jezus fellow you're instructing to pay the bill for me? I'd be most grateful if he does!

The way I see it, just pay it. You owe it for services rendered. Switzerland is a very expensive country in all areas; I am not too surprised at what it cost ya.
If you chose to jump without the insurance then IMHO you chose to pay any associated consequences. It sucks ass but what can ya do?!
Only other thing is check your homeowner's insurance as some have odd rules about things you can claim.

BASE gone bad gets costly. it could be a lot worse.

glad you had time for a second attempt!

To keep us all in good standing with the powers that be you have to pay the bill. It never ceases to amaze me how expensive somethings can be in Switzerland including getting help down from a tree! It does seem excessive but not suprising.

Gotta pay it bros.

1) try nicely. maybe the invoice is formally correct, but if you are nice and tell them about your financial situation they might be able to do something. call and find out. NICELY ask an explanation of the fees and let them know that you are surprised.
2) get in touch with the swiss guys (base1007 and michi_ZH) to see which course of action they would recommend ("ask the locals"-concept).
3) from what i know, you can get insurance at the heliport, which according to my knowledge is also open on sundays (i bought my insurance on a sunday, but not in lauterbrunnen, but another swiss airport with REGA presence).

NOT PAYING THE INVOICE is, IMHO, a very bad idea. in the long run, that would lead to the fact that one would have to pay cash before being rescued...

regards, and good luck,
flummi

Try www.rega.ch You can register and pay online anytime.

And you can buy insurance on-line...

http://www.rega.ch/

as Olek says:
you can buy the rega card online. On the SBA site
http://www.basejumper.ch/...ontpage&Itemid=1
is a link to the online form.
Pls check the SBA webpage before you visit the valley, you get almost all the information you need from that page.
You need to pay the bill. Air Glacier already stoppt to sell the card to base jumpers. If you don't pay REGA, it could happen that they also refuse to insure base jumpers in the future and then every base jumper who needs rega would need to pay for it. And I tell you, a rescue is much more expensive then getting someone out of the trees (I know it, I had the pleasure of doing it, but of course I had the membership card... :-))

So again, pls pay the bill

Aye...seems alot to pay but (said politely and with no ill will), maybe take it as a further lesson on the event ..on responsibility
If you are not prepared to pay yourself ....don't jump until you are insured.
A polite letter back to them pleading poverty and a discount request is prob your only other option.....but if they don't offer anything back, you need to pay up..
Its already been said, keeping good will /relations with these and other local services there has got to be vital, for survival of BASE in The Valley....and that includes paying your bills.

1650Fr. seems fairly reasonable (within Swiss standards) to me for:

2 guys that have to get out of bed on a Sunday and get you out of a tree (prob. at least 100Fr an hour each and assuming the rescue took around 5h that's already 1k)
All the equipment, paying for the rescue infrastructure etc. can't be cheap either.

can I just get this right? its 30 chf for a single person and you're covered for all rescues...including helo? I'm reading the conditions again

I was talking with an "old-timer" the other day and over a few drinks lamenting the changes in BASE. (Don't bag on me. BASE as you know will change someday too, LOL).

I was trying to come up with the definitive single "turning point" but there were so many little "compromises" it was a very gradual (almost unnoticeable) and very slippery slope. And I'm as guilty as anyone in some of these things . . .

- When the NPS became egregious at Bridge Day and we didn't have the balls to call it off for a year or two. (Go back to the late '80s and pick any year.)

- When some outside of BASE corporate interests began to "use" BASE jumping and too many of us thought it was cool. No, I'm not specifically thinking of ShitBull (although that's become the current end result) I'm talking about Bridge Day '87 when "No Fear" showed up at the BASE trade show to sell their t-shirts. And we didn’t run them out of town on a rail.

- When the BASE community began to eat itself. I'm thinking here about guys like John Vincent, Stupid Dave, and Jeb Corlis, etc, and our combined treatment of them. There is something mildly romantic and old school about their approach to BASE. Just shove it down people's throats and fuck who doesn't like it. I remember when "The Pick" was led off the BD Bridge in handcuffs. Will Forshay turned to me and said, "Now, that's BASE." I think we screwed up royally when we started to think of the "collective" good rather than the "individual" good. Want freedom? Then just act free. In Stupid Dave's case I see a kind of "out of the mouths of babes" thing. Free from the history of BASE, free from the current - go along to get along - group think could it be possible he got it right and the rest of us got it wrong? Would a thousand "stupid daves" do us more good in the long run than a single entity like the Back Country Parachutists? Ever see that 80's computer movie with the tag line, "The only way to win the game is not to play?"

- The day we spilled the beans. And again I'm a bean spiller too. I can't actually point to a single day, situation, or event, when the beans first hit the floor. It might have been when a few Hollywood stuntmen began using BASE to pump up their resumes. Why, when Moe Viletto crashed through the skyscraper window in that Hollywood skydiving movie, wasn't he tarred and feathered? Was it because he got paid? Why didn't we go ape shit when Warren Miller started featuring BASE in his art movies? Who first thought paid for first BASE jump courses were a good idea? You can't buy your way into the Foreign Legion, the Mafia, or the Hell's Angels.

- When the Europeans blew it. There's a lot of revisionist history here, but when BASE finally took off in Norway, Switzerland, etc, it had already been going on big time here in the States for more than a few years. It's like they had a blueprint for what not to do. The Continent was like a big sweet virgin willing to go along with anything. There were no inherent anti-personal freedom laws, no over abundance of shit eating lawyers, no reason BASE couldn't flourish in all its glory. So what did the Euro-dogs do? They started making their own rules where none existed. "Oh, but we must keep the local farmer happy!" Fuck the local farmer!!! Now it's so bad you can't get help out of a tree, something anyone would do for a cat or dog for free, without forking over all your NOKs and Krones . . .

- The Wave . . . In the mid 1980s we sort of knew we had a good thing going but we also knew it couldn't last. We all feared "the wave" of new jumpers that would come when the world finally awoke to BASE jumping. We are certainly the same assholes now as we were then, except nowadays we are "known" assholes. Getting busted for urban BASE in the 80s usually got you laughed out of the courtroom. Now you're just another YouTube idiot that needs to be taught a lesson. Somehow in just thirty years we went from what Carl Boenish thought of as one of Man's biggest achievements of the 20th Century to something the public equates with "Bum Fights" and "Girls Gone Wild." When the "wave" finally did come rolling in –in the mid-1990s - some surfed it, some ducked it, and some drowned in it. (I'm in the latter category.)

- We just aren't cool anymore. And I miss that more than anything. Just like the Beatles aren't cool anymore, just like Free Love isn't cool anymore (Boy, did you younger guys miss out on the pussy smorgasbord) and just like dancing the "Monkey" isn't cool anymore (just when I finally got it) everything changes in time . . .

- So we've come to now. And it's summed up perfectly by lyndon in his response to goking. And its the one single definable point, reason, attitude, call it what you want, where we can see how BASE truly and finally went off the rails.

"To keep us all in good standing with the powers that be you have to pay the bill."

NickD
BASE 194

Nick, great stuff as usual!

Watching Travis Pastrana's dad do a gainer at the Perrine on "Nitro Circus" last weekend just dropped BASE jumping a few notches on the cool sports list. Disappointing. As a bonus, he jumped from the top of the rail as well.

Yes, pay the tree rescue bill and pull higher/harder next time. And if you don't pay it, every BASE jumper should kick in a few bucks and pay it for you.

If you turn off your computer and go solo a new object at night - then you may get the some of the old vibe back, just for a little while mind you..

That's good point James.
Everybody should do this before enter to this website :-)

Had a treelanding there last year as well...
Costs were nearly the same, around 1,2k Euro.
It was covered by REGA.

...and no, climbing down was not an option. ;)

Well, no. Here are the details of the invoice. The rescue took a total time of 2 hours 9 minutes. They rounded this up to 3 hours, lawyer style, but hey, that's what one would expect. There are two guys on one tariff (presumably the two who rescued me), and that comes to 374 CHF. Then there's another (I've no idea who) on a slightly lower tariff, and that comes to 172 CHF. But even so, 546 CHF would be what I'd consider a reasonable amount. There's also a "Materialbeitrag" ("material contribution") of 38.70 CHF, which I'm guessing covers the cost of the gear usage. Fair enough.

But there are two other costs which I baulked at. One is "Entschädigung Einsatzberichterstattung" ("Compensation reporting application") for 436 CHF and the other "Sachaufwand Alpine Rettung Schweiz" ("Swiss Alpine Rescue Expenses") for 621 CHF! How can the administrative costs possibly be 1057 CHF?

Another point is that since it wasn't a medical emergency, and they weren't therefore compelled to assist me, surely I was entitled to a quote, or at least a reasonable estimate of what the rescue would cost? Despite asking several times, the rescuers couldn't give me a figure.

I've already spoken to them (nicely, I might add) about some sort of concession, and the only thing they'd allow was for me to pay the amount in portions. I think I'll write and ask them to explain the 1057 CHF costs, and the mystery third person.

Or I could do what NickDG would probably approve of, and refuse to pay, citing the importance of promoting the rebellious reputation of BASE jumping, and as a tribute to the sport's heritage.

Thanks to all for your constructive/supportive/humourous comments.

why did you need a tree rescue anyways? that whole week you were dirty high pullin' like a bad night in bagdad.

It's Murphy's law. The lower the pull, the harder it'll be!
"dirty high pullin'" was one of the lessons I learned from my tree landing!

Hm okay those expenses are kind of weird but I think one problem is that it's a shitty translation.

"Entschädigung Einsatzberichterstattung" is the charge for the people that had to do all the administrative work aka write a report etc.

"Sachaufwand Alpine Rettung Schweiz" doesn't just mean Swiss Alpine Rescue Expenses but is explicitly related to material cost. I'm not sure if they used leaders, ropes etc. or how they got you out of there, but I assume that charge was for the gear they used. It probably also included the car they needed to get there etc.

If I was you (and this is in no way the Swiss Base Association speaking, I just happend to be from Switzerland), I'd go NickDG's way

Classy.

Keeping the farmers happy in The Swiss Valley amounts, mostly, to staying off of a very few exit points that they've got good reasons to prefer you not jump, and landing (when possible) in the fields that they've cut, rather than the ones where they're growing a crop. Standing up for your rights is cool. Being beligerent toward the locals when they make very reasonable requests (like, for instance, being paid the going rate for rescues) is about as cool as the kid throwing a tantrum in the supermarket.

hmmm...
you got me thinking...

How do you define "Cool?"

if you define it by an inner feeling, then it will always be cool. as you yourself have said numerous times, no one can stop everyone with a parachute and object access!

if you define it be external inputs, then you are cool because others admire and respect you. people must know what you do for it to be cool. thus, aren't all the youTubists, RedBullites, glory hounds, etc. just announcing to the world that they also do cool stuff?

it can be argued that the truly cool do not promote themselves, but the information gets out anyway. if someone accepts that, then what about Miles? he seems willing to help anyone and I haven't heard him brag. the only real criticism of him is the sponsorship thing.

maybe it's just I've never felt "cool." I don't know what it feels like and I can't miss it... so much will depend on how you define "cool."

There's some really interesting discussion of the concept of "cool" in The Rebel Sell by Heath and Potter. The following excerpt summarizes it pretty well:


Michael

Quit bitching & just pay it... there's no excuse for jumping in the valley without the insurance - it's cheap and it's always available on-line.

this thread is funny. poor geoff, the nicest guy made to feel so bad.

looks like your out the 1641 if you ever wanna step foot in the horner again.

i'm laughing with/at ya bro...all the way across the pond!

In 2006 I was present when two guys from Air Glacier helped with a treelanding without billing the jumper.
Since then basejumps and treelandings got more and more frequent and the attitude has changed. Air Glacier changed its policy last year and I think there is a reason for that.
You will help your neighbour getting a kitten out of a tree two or three times, if it requires rescuing every other weekend, you will consider to shoot the dumb beast.

Air Glacier is not just a neighbour, but a business making a living rescuing people and they are doing a fine job. The Rega card is an unbelievable bargain, get it before you jump, it is part of the preparation for the jump.

If somebody alerts a rescue service in Germany after a basejump you can expect to pay at least the same amount in Euros and get a ticket from the police. Compared to that Switzerland and Air Glacier are still cheap.

I don´t think the rescuers know much about billing, you should have haggled with Monika on the phone, she writes the bill.

Why rely on the authorities in the first place. The valley is Base-Disneyland, but that can change easily, as the problems at the Mürren exits show. We should keep a low profile and organize ourselves. I will try to deposit some climbing gear at the Horner, so next time when somebody lands in a tree, he can call his buddies and help himself. Take some cord or dental floss with you as a precaution, when you jump.
You should know how to use basic climbing equipment and how to secure yourself after a treelanding; one of my friends fell to his death after he had landed in a tree. Also your canopy might look a lot worse, if somebody just pulls it out of the tree.


But I am just an uncool Euro-dog in awe of the authorities.

The bill is from REGA, not Air Glacier, so it was prepared by bureaucrats in Zurich, not locals.


That's an excellent idea. All jumpers should still get the REGA insurance, but some independence from the rescue teams is no bad thing. No need to trouble the experts, unless the rescue is going to be really technical and risky.


My canopy had only very minor damage. One tip I got afterward from another jumper is to carry a spanner (wrench) to undo your links. That way the lines are much less likely to get caught up in the tree, and you can probably get away with simply pulling at the canopy to get it out of the tree.


Just suggest a massive deforestation campaign (50 jumpers, 50 chainsaws?) in the valley to get back some rebel cred.

Common, stop posting about this, just pay the fucking bill. And if you are not going to pay it let me know and we will see if we can find other BASE Jumpers who will pay for you. The charge for the Swiss Alpine Rescue Expense is for the mountain guide who has helped you down of the tree.
Almost every weekend we have jumpers who are not capable to pull at the correct altitude. Then they whine about hard pull or shit like that. But in fact they are just to dumb to pull at the right time. And they live because of the trees there. And when they hold on to the trees, worried and scared, they are thankful when REGA comes and pulls them out of the trees.
We could make a deal with REGA to only get a jumper if they are injured. If the jumper is ok, he can either try himself to get down and maybe get killed or try to organize a rescue himself.
And fuck Nick DG, someone who has never jumped there (or jumps at all) should not write shit like that. We are putting a lot of effort, money and free time so our guests can continue to jump in Lauterbrunnen. If we stop this, the locals can very easy stop the jumping in Lauterbrunnen. We will have our own NPS then with the same consequences if people keep on jumping then. But with the big difference that it will be much harder to get away with a jump. It is only a narrow valley.
If you want to be bandit, be it but don't be it in Lauterbrunnen. Go sneak up an antenna or a building a jump in night. If you want to jump in our alps, please do it respecting the few guide lines we ask for, so also people after you can enjoy the jumping there.

Again, don't be a dick, just pay or let me know, I will kindly ask your friends then to pay for you.

Michi (SBA)

Well said!

I have every intention of settling with REGA. The Valley is an incredible place, and I wouldn't want to do anything to jeopardize its status as a BASE paradise. NickDG's post was amusing, but I didn't take it seriously. My deforestation comment wasn't meant to be taken seriously either.

My only real grievance was that I wasn't able to get a quote before deciding to be rescued. I may have decided to go ahead with it anyway, or might have risked climbing down myself. Sure this would have been dangerous, but so is BASE, right? Or I might have tried climbing down, and changed my mind and asked for the rescue. I just don't know. But I would have liked to have had the choice, and I believe I was entitled to it.

My post about this whole subject was motivated by a number of things. I wanted to make it more widely known just how expensive even a non-helicopter rescue is (even a very experienced Swiss jumper estimated my rescue would only cost a few hundred CHF) . I also wanted to establish whether anyone thought there might be a prospect of negotiating with REGA.

I also wanted other jumpers to learn from my mistake. I'm not sure why you seem to think I'm not being honest about the reason I landed in the tree. It was a hard pull. Entirely my own fault (mainly for packing my PC sloppily), but a hard pull nonetheless.

Lastly, I thought my public humiliation might be entertaining, which it has been for at least one reader. Still enjoying this, Ted?

Jump preparation - get a quote before you jump.

Hey There

This Still Chainsaw has a 18' bar.

Capable of ....

Also have a old McCullah

Model "420

The Still is new and Still in that Case
























mAgot

Please PM me.

>>And fuck Nick DG, someone who has never jumped there (or jumps at all) should not write shit like that.<<

Gee, that's a bit rough . . .

Yeah, my ideas were forged in the early days.

BASE first, then everything, and everyone else second. But I've come around to the "new socialist" way of thinking on a lot of issues pertaining to BASE, so, come on, lighten up a little bit.

I'm just not so sure take what you want isn't as good as beg for what you want . . .

And, wrong again . . .

I made my first visit to Switzerland in 1992 when you were probably still crapping yellow in your diapers . . .

NickD

How did you request the rescue? Did you have a handy in your pocket and call them? If so, and you think you are so entitled to a quote, why didn't you ask for it on the phone when you were requesting the rescue? Asking the guys that come out to rescue you when you could have asked the people that you had send the rescue seems like a lack of better judgment. Mikki, I'll pitch in if you need it.

Did you make a BASE Jump then? And no, I was not crapping my diapers then. Just because I BASE Jump does not mean that I'm a kid. There are many people much older then you, still jumping actively and not whining bout the old times, sitting in front of the pc and writing crap all the time. Get up and get a live instead of living in the past...

Fellow jumpers organized it, and at first I thought that my rescuers were just some local climbers, and that I could buy them a few beers to thank them for helping me out. Only later did it become clear that they were acting for REGA, and were obliged to report it to them and have them bill me.

But even I'm now starting to get tired of this thread. I'll post back once I've settled with REGA.

''fuck the local farmers''

Nice to read this on BASE forum!!
Place which serves as educational tool as well.
Looks like there might be many followers of such mental state, by looking at bottles and crap around exits all around the Europe sites...

American legal BASE jumping organization is by far superior over CH, that for sure!!!!

Comparing with CH, were you jump as much as you want, were helicopter can save any smart or dumb ass, were one can get insurance what is close to be perfect, guys in your country can go around the states and jump free every object as long is one and only Perrine bridge! THanks to whom?! PLease answer if you know?!
IMHO Nick, this what you wrote is embarrassing...
Rules in CH are as it is. Fact is that CH BASE association constantly working on BASE jumpers being welcome in the valley and whole CH.
Fact is that you can jump what ever you like there...but also, imagine for a very short moment that valley become illegal... You will probably be happy as that would mean that BASE is going back to his root....illegal, bandit, socially unaccepted activities for morons!!
Is this what you vote for?!

About the bill..
There is no discussions about what to do!
Listen what CH boys suggesting and do it! Choice is yours....
IMHO, 1700 CHF – is nothing! Pay that and be happy to come again.
Next time you'll be way more careful about organizing your jumps in the valley...

There was some jumping going on in Europe before "modern base" jumping was established in the USA! But you know the French, they dont talk to much, they just did it!

Rest of the post is up to others to judge, but Europe is freedom for many people, when you can travel where ever you want, and make any hike, and jump any place except for some very few places. The only complaints from those who actually have been here, is the beer prices in Norway!

Base is changing for every new generation, and we, the old, who dont jump anymore, what can we do about it? Sit back and enjoy the show.

Word!!

I felt pretty bad when I landed in the tree after a wingsuit lowpull.
It was my own mistake, and for me it was kind of an abuse of the insurance system that REGA offered.

The local who owned the place (and the tree) I landed in was very nice and didn't gave me any hassle about it.
A couple of month earlier I already talked to him and asked if he was fine with wingsuiters landing on his field, since it was not a designated LZ for BASE jumpers.
At that point he said he woulnd't mind, but that the jumpers are giving The Valley a "bad reputation" worldwide in general with all the carnage that happened there lately in autum 2007.

Thats how most of the locals think about us and every incident makes it worse...

The Valley is probably one of the most valuable places on the planet for travelling BASE jumpers and it should be treated like that!

[The Valley is probably one of the most valuable places on the planet for travelling BASE jumpers and it should be treated like that! ]

Exactly. Do the same jump in America and it's a felony for the most part.....and they take your gear.

Hey There

oops.

that's a 18 ...Inch BAR. Not i8 feet.

My Mistake

Hey Kid's Rock and Roll !

Gerald

mAGOT

agree that totally, having/buying that Rega insurance has been made as easy and fast as it can be, so who doesnt have it can only blame himself...so pay the bill

high five Ronald

Quite possibly, yes. Interestingly, the rescuers did mention that if I had climbed down myself, they could then have retrieved my canopy without having to notify REGA about it. But rescuing a human comes with all sorts of liability concerns, so they themselves needed to be covered by REGA.

I've just paid the bill.

Gee, guess I came out on the fuzzy end of the lollipop on this one.

Oh well . . .

NickD