Basejumper.com - archive

for the record...

it is really hard to make money being anonymous. I get NO gain from the hours I spend here.

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my turn. are you going to contribute a thoughtful post? maybe pointing out how my interpretation of Sonic's syllabus poses a safety issue?

I appreciate your comments about tape-gates. you actually bought every roll and conducted tests. good. more should do that. I'd like to see the same sound logic in this thread.

you seem smart enough that you should not need to change the subject. changing the subject, mocking, etc. all suggest an inability to communicate critical thinking. you can do better.

anyone want to stay on topic?

or should I just lock the thread?

Are you receiving or benefiting, in any way, (financial, advertising, etc) from defending Sonic, his "FJC", his BASEr, or the numerous articles and/or interviews that you or your other non-BASE jumping corporate "writers" have posted here?

Yeah I didn't hear an answer to his question there, just lots of bs....

Yeah I think your motivation behind your support is a pretty valid part of the argument

How could it possibly be a valid part of the argument? If his points are valid, then it wouldn't matter if he's a sockpuppet for Sonic himself -- they're still good points. If his points are not valid, then surely you can address the points regardless of who's making them. if, on the other hand, what he's giving you is unsubstantiated opinion, and you're willing to accept that as truth provided it comes from the right jumper, then that really says more about you than them, doesn't it?

Ad hominem can be a lot more subtle than "you're a dumbass".

I'm trying to get a grip on why any BASE jumper is showing so much support for this. Is it just to stimulate argument? Is it a financial arrangement? Warped stated he got no financial gain for being on these boards which I took to mean he doesn't get paid for moderating the forums but did not answer the question of weather he is in Sonic's pocket. I think it's very unlikely he is in Sonic's pocket but there has to be some reason why you are so positive and only look for the positives in Sonic's business plan while being so quick to dismiss the obvious negatives. Other reasons I can gather might be you are a very inexperienced jumper that has only jumped easy objects so thinks base can be taught be anyone or maybe you are just a person that see's the positive in everything? or do you like to swim against the flow?

The Allan Jones of the BASE world Millsy?

there has to be some reason why you are so positive and only look for the positives in Sonic's business plan while being so quick to dismiss the obvious negatives.

heck, a serious question. I'll give a serious answer. the following points are NOT necessarily prioritized...

- Sonic has invested time, effort, and money. he is taking a risk. he is NOT just sitting on a couch somewhere complaining. always a good starting point.

= is now financially invested and MUST now get a return from his investment, safety or not. The traditional mentor program is usually run with no money involved for this very reason.

- Sonic's gear appears to be safe and well constructed. his labeling of his course was extremely flawed. but the effects of his course are NOT known. it is all speculation. Sonic is a brash New York type that can seem "in your face." he also appears thoughtful. in the worse case, his course will create the havoc so many assume will happen. in the best case, a whole lot of folks might take Sonic's course and realize BASE is NOT for them. it all depends on how the course is run. we don't have that data yet.

so to let Sonic have his 'experiment' we allow a dude with next to no base experience SELL a heap of skydivers into base. A copy of his course curriculum has been made available and most of the subjects are highly base specific and should only be taught by an experienced jumper

- as a moderator, I'm supposed to uphold civil discourse. the vocal folks against the course prefer jokes, mocking, etc. rahter than explaining their views. it can keep others from posting for fear of being attacked. the rules of this site say that is not acceptable.

Congrats, do you have a merit badge for that or something?

- I have witnessed (and mentioned) seeing habits that appear equally as threatening to BASE as the worse case scenario of Sonic's course. there is no complaints or uprising. heck no one even commented about the stoned FJC! bashing one and accepting the other is totally out of proportion. I assume people like abusing Sonic because they view him as an outsider. they'd rather criticize him then one of their own. the BFL is full of names that might not be there had half of the energy directed at Sonic been sent there way... it's as if there is NO safety issues other than Sonic's course.

May be some truth in the outsider comment, yeah stoned FJC, shit happens its a one off, I'm sure much worse things have happened. They were perpetrated by people that have been there and they know the game and the risks, not by some skydiver peddling a shiny toy and a hollow course at skydivers

- even if we chase Sonic from the market, SOMEONE will step forward to fill the marketing vacuum Sonic identified. I'm not saying I like it, but it WILL happen. we can influence Sonic. we might not be able to influence the next guy.

May be some truth in the outsider comment, yeah stoned FJC, shit happens its a one off, I'm sure much worse things have happened. They were perpetrated by people that have been there and they know the game and the risks, not by some skydiver peddling a shiny toy and a hollow course at skydivers

you seem highly critical of Sonic because he is a outsider.

you seem very forgiving of others because they are fellow BASE jumpers.

later you said, you would NOT compromise on gear.

BUT it appears you ARE willing to compromise on safety. if you turn the other cheek to safety issues committed by fellow jumpers, you seem quite happy to compromise your principles.

personally, when I don't understand, I like to ask. if gives me a chance to learn. or it gives the other party the same chance. asking when safety is involved can save lives. I think we all ought to be asking these questions of EVERYBODY. jumper or not.

The way I see it, this is all pretty on topic. I mean, you have quite an opinion about quite a lot of things going on in BASE jumping and the BASE community, yet nobody knows anything about how credible your opinion really is.

How hard is it to anwser few simple questions? All your posts look the same, alot of BS covering up the fact that for some reason you dont want to anwser few basic questions, you really Base jump?

I have jumped in at least 7 US states, and on at least 3 continents. but I'm still an amateur compared too many.

I also thought the double standard of deleting your own post instead of just locking it like everyone elses was pretty weak sauce.

I guess we are trying to figure out why and if this opinion is coming from an experienced jumper or not, nothing to do with moderation. If you have jumped in all those states why not tell us about your experience?