Basejumper.com - archive

So I ran into one of my best friends from Highschool that I havent seen since 97... its funny how life can take 2 people opposite directions.

My buddy almost joined the Army, but the recruiter was closed the day I went by with him... Since then he has been "in and out" of trouble and ony recently cleaned up.

Getting to the point...

He and a buddy who still smoke what they can "eat" told me about some rappelling adventures.... I was peaked and was about to go with them until I hear their method of using carbiners to slow their decent..... I have done a LITTLE BIT of rappelling using a swiss seat and know there are several ways to use biners as a rap device but what they were doing was different from anythign I had previously seen.

Anyway they tell me they have rapped from 75-100 feet and had no issues...

please tell me your thoughts on their method... see attached pic...

buy yourself a copy of "on rope", best rigging book ever. if you get chance and have the cash that is.


as for that pic, I honestly do not understand.

is the brake hand on lookers left? if there is rope sliding through a knot, (the only way i can convieve that rap rig working) then it is black death. but I might be totally confused.

I have rapped a TON of different ways. and they are over-rigging that FOR SURE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munter_hitch

this one works GREAT and reverses itself from belay to rap, etc.

just always use 3 stage auto lock biners with it. (not screw lock, as they can easily come unscrewed) screw locks have their place, but modern autolocks are far superior for harness rigging applications involving running lines.

http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/CrabBrake.htm

Pretty good brake device if used like that. Other than that you can just 'suicide hitch' it like what Hecker was showing. The only problem with that is if you're trying to pull some slack out to put tension on before you get ready, you can pull the hitch over the gate, and if its a non locking caribiner (which is the only one I've seen military rappel masters use) it can open the gate, rope comes out and you have a fun base jump without the rig

You just like that book because the first page references a base jumper

I use this technice for short rappelling, for example to get to the exit at the mighty dick (aprox 10 to 15m) but the big disadvantage is that the rope is twisted afterwards. For me the best way is still the old school 8-rappelling deivice (don't know what it is called in english).

 
Yep, that's looking a little sketchy, I'm sure it works but why not use something like what Calvin suggested; the munter. Simple, cheap and easy.

Watch out for rope twists on longer rap's, though. They can be a nightmare.

I don't recommend the fig-8, that's some oldschool technolgy and also twists your lines.

If your rapping a lot I recommend somthing similar to this animal:

http://www.backcountry.com/...amond-ATC-Guide.html

BTW - I see more than one carabiner in that pic ;)

I've rapped with a bunch of different knots and some with better luck than others...But never the black death rig in the picture. If you don't have a rappel-specific device like an ATC or a reverso type device, the carabiner brake shown above (at the chockstone site) is the best of the ones mentioned so far, IMHO (due to gnarly rope twists and such).
By the way, great harness he's wearing in the pic! Does that come with leg loops or are those extra?

"...here, hold my beer while I do my patented WT Rappel off this cliff!"

5000.

there are leg loops on that harness, but I was just showing the carabiners for decription purposes..

the rope would actually be a single rope with no knots.

That guy is right handed and uses his right hand to brake with.


I found a few pages on the net that described a few different ways to rap and printed them off for my buddy, because I was not sure of the saftey of his method even though he used it from lower heights up to 75-100 ft on a single rope system.

I have used a figure 8 system (I dont like it because it is slooooooow) and a singlecarabiner and I believe it is a munter hitch or is a version of a munter hitch.

Reason I am posting this here is I'd like to keep my buddy around for awhile.

Ok, yes. that picture did not even seem to me that it would work. but yes, there is a multiple carabiner rap like that. there is also another one with 4 matching ovals that works great too.

but seriously, buy a grigri, figure8, ATC, STOP, or something else made for the job. these weird knots are great for super ultralight use, but that only short distances. even munter hitch burns up rope.

I did not even notice that. I have not opened that book in easily 4 years.

I would think that if your buddies are going rapping for the sake of rapping, they would be best to buy rap specific gear. they are obviously not going for lightweight setups. a harness/HMS/ATC kit at REI is less than 100 USD.

anything I should look for? might you share a link or 2?

thanks

http://www.rei.com/product/768095

http://www.rei.com/product/737861

http://www.rei.com/product/471034

these are the lowest ends of a personal rappelling kit I would recommend. any kind of Belay device would work, unless you are using double rope rappells, and U.E. rappels almost always are. the ATC is lightweight, does not twist at all, and is very simple to use with one or two ropes. the Figure 8 has more speed variability, and can be used as an ATC.

Rapping with biners only is not sketchy at all if done with some knowledge. Their set-up looks pretty contrived and easy to lose control of which is the easiest way to get hurt. A munter hitch as shown in an earlier post is the best way with FROZEN ropes. It is very abusive to dry ropes but works fine there too. The four biner brake is probably the most common, was used for years and is very simple if precautions are taken to prevent gates aligning and opening.

I have been in situations where VERY little gear was available for a rap. A system had to be contrived for the rap and to pass knots while hanging. That took some imagination. I am glad it was only me to worry about.

I thought Leroy's friends were doing this for sport, not in emergencies or situations with minimal gear.

if you all want to be real men, you would do the no harness-no metal rappel. I do not remember what it was called, but from a local craig in high school me and my friends (now BASE jumpers also) had a habit of rapping the 70' vertical section with nothing but heavy pants and jacket. it works great if you can keep a straight head and good balance/rope handling with both hands. it tries to flip you over backwards, so you have to keep pressure on the passed rope also, if you let go with either hand, you yo-yo out of it and crater.

it can be done on an overhang/free rappel, but I never tried.

in german it's "dülfersitz".
get heatproof thighs
i think you double the rope?

 
Does that translate to "ough, ough, Ough, HOT!"? I'm not saying I haven't done it but come on even a low rent bastard like me can generaly afford a beaner.

Lee

http://en.petzl.com/...Produits?Produit=526

If they are serious about rappelling for the sake of rappelling. But be wary of loooong raps. See http://www.blincmagazine.com/...ty-mexican-cave.html.

For longer raps, look into something more like this.

Matt A i think still have calus on his quach from those times. we also were the riggers for our high school plays, and it was going great until our teacher/director saw us using nothing but gloves to come down from the catwalks at 40'. Blackhawk marine insert style. THAT was hot, and we doubled our ropes for that. and yeah, of course for the "dülfersitz" we doubled the rope, it was the craigs decent.

i've rappelled my whole life with only a single carabiner. as a kid, it was obviously just for fun, off of things like old rail-road bridges and whatnot.

FYI leroy, the military still uses a swiss-seat and a single carabiner to rappel from helicopters with a combat load. in fact i think the standard at air assault school is to be clipped in and ready within 15seconds or some shit. it's the way i was taught and it works fine. obviously i'm not a technical climber by any means... but for simple rappelling, there's no need to go buying a shitload of gear. IMO of course.

the army manual?

http://www.scribd.com/...y-tc21-24-Rappelling

 
That's actually really good but it is so so millatary. Strange to compare it with a climbing book written by some hippy climber.

Lee

So in my journey to find out if what my buddy was doing was "safe......"

1. I got interested enough to get a rope, harness, gloves, autolocking 'biner, few other accessories.... been having fun with it....

2. I found that it appears that my buddy used mostly strength and minimal friction from his hip to slow his decent using his method previously decribed.

3. I spent 18 bucks to buy my buddy a simple ATC (?) and got him to use it.... He was amazed at how little force it takes to hold you in place..


Thanks to everyone for your help. Possibly saved my buddies life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigri_(climbing)

that one works like a charm..