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103

 
We've been discussing this at length in the shop. We refer to it as the inflation bill. All I want to know is where this 700+ billion dollars is comeing from. I'm thinking we don't have a serplus of that size just laying around. I always liked the idea of the gold standard. I mean it made sence. Any one can do division. If you print more money then it's just worth less. It kept evey one honest. Now I think people have frogoten that it still works the same way. Regardless of what nebulas imaginary bull shit you go through the bottom line is that the $ still has an inate value. It has to. An if you do nothing to create more value, to create more welth but just print more money then the inate value of the $ drops. How can it not? It may not be so obveously and easily calculated but I say it's still there. I'm reminded of Hitchhikers Guide where they go to the leaf standard of money and all become filthy rich. Then reallize they must burn down all the forest to combat there inflation problem.
So cold some one exspane this to me. How does increasing the inflation rate help the economy?

Lee

where is the money coming from?

the same place that it came from to pay for:
- the big tax cuts of the last administration
- the medicare expansion of the last administration
- the 7 year old war
- the building of schools (not in the US, but in Iraq)

it is curious that the same elected officials thought printing money was cool and groovy then, hate the idea now.

except for the '90's, US governments typically run deficit spending. it would be nice to see no deficit, but the Federal government out of debt. (IMHO)

 

we could raise the money by selling nuclear weapons mounted on an ICBMs for a trillion dollars.

 
If you didn't hear me bitch before it's simply because you never asked me. Deffacit spending on this little war is one of the reasons that we're in a depresion. I don't think I haven't bitched about it. Riddle me this. If there is no proffet in a war why fight it? I mean the whole point is that there's supposed to be some kind of return on your investment. My one big bitch about this war is not that we faught it but how it was run. Were's the free oil? Were are the wells that we are going own? How much land are we going to get to keep. At least show me Bin Laudens head.

Now I don't think any one argued or doubted that we were driving our selves into a depresion. That's part of the price of fighting a war but I can't recall any one saying how they were going to revitalize the economy by increasing inflation. I just don't get that.

Lee

I don't think I said you were bitching...

the currently stated goal of the stimulus package may not be met.

the war authorization bill was originally sold as a means to give the president enhanced negotiation leverage. that goal wasn't met.

we went to war to destroy weapons of mass destruction. that goal was not met.

the government planned on oil paying for the war. that goal was not met.

the president stated there should be no timetable for troop withdrawal. that goal was not met since that president negotiated a troop withdrawal.

bin Laden was "wanted dead or alive" as he was "public enemy #1." that goal was not met.

"Mission Accomplished?"

it is way too easy detailing how the government fails to meet goals. the war stuff is the easiest to detail because it has spent so much time in the headlines.

thus, I dislike deficit spending, no matter the cause. spending borrowed money on ineffective policies appears ridiculous. (I guess it DOES make folks feel good.)

 

huh? I never said that...



now you agree!
yeah!

 

The money issues of the last administration are an embarrassment. The Democratic controlled congress (which is still there) refused to control spending because we were getting rich and more people owned homes, and Republicans didn't have the balls enough to do anything about it. (even though they claim the moral high ground)

The issue about presidents acting to physically protect our borders is a greater debate to me.

President Clinton attempted to destroy bin Laden too, he just did it by seizing financial resources of al Qaeda. Although there were multiple members of his own cabinet that advised controlling the money of charities that supported terrorism (over a billion dollars given to al Qaeda in 10 years), President Clinton did not react to the threat to avoid looking biased targeting Islam. This was especially true after failed war in Somalia in which he sent troops but didn't fully support. Since al Qaeda didn't carry large balance sheets and hid its money in charities, the laws Clinton signed did nothing. President Clinton dropped our national defence budget by more than 2 percent of the GDP while in office. He broke the intelligence networks and systems that Bush relied upon when taking office. That didn't work out so well for us; the 3,000+ souls lost in the WTC by Clinton's cuts and lack of action were civilians and not soldiers who volunteered. All that while screwing a mistress. Boy he was good...

look it up in his own words:

Executive Order 12947: Prohibiting Transactions with Terrorists Who Threaten to Disrupt the Middle East Peace Process. Issued Jan. 23, 1995.

Executive Order 13099 is an amendment to EO 12947. Issued Aug. 20, 1998.

Executive Order 13129: "Blocking Property and Prohibiting Transactions With the Taliban." Issued July 4, 1999.

Office of Management and Budget, Historical Tables, Budget of the United States Government, Fiscal Year 2005 (2004), Washington

the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress for 6 years of the Clinton administration.

the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress for 4 years of the Bush administration. (the first 2 years Congress was almost evenly divided. the last 2 years, Congress went Democratic.)

Congress controls the purse strings of the Federal Government. for 10 of the last 14 years, that has meant Republicans dictated how the government taxed and spent. why are you not criticizing the Republicans for not controlling spending? to claim the last 2 years of Democratic Congressional control ruined the economy is a huge red herring. heck, it was the first time in 12 years that the Democrats controlled Congress.

the President controls the executive branch, which includes regulators. under the last administration, the regulators appear to have permitted much financial instability. it seems patently unfair to blame 2 years of Democratic Congressional control for that...


do you agree with the recent assessment that the biggest threat to the US comes from the economic situation and not terrorism?

 

please show me how the Republican Congress under Republican Bush EVER passed a balanced budget?

did you whine about that Republican over-spending?
if not, you have little credibility to whine about Democratic spending.

(I have criticized deficit spending my entire life. don't like it at all. it matters not who does it.)

 

as I'm not the one complaining about the stimulus package, why should I suggest a better way?
I'm asking for people to be a tad more consistent in their criticism.

instead of complaining, offer a better idea. don't dump your responsibility on me.

We're continuing the downward spiral. Sorry, but the USA is fucked.

I agree 100%!! Below are just a few of the
many reasons why I will not be having
children!! ...besides that petition, ha ha

About 10 trillion dollars in debt
Ability to sue fast food chains
Well over 50% obesity
Around 60% divorce
Piss poor service
Text addiction


Oh, and the college kids in my classes teach
me really wacky new shit every day such as:


Georgraphy
_____________________________
Canada is a continent
Lake Erie is an ocean
Gulf of Mexico is an ocean
Outback is a country in Austraila
Europe moved to North America


Math
_____________________________
The area of a rectangle 6' x 9' is 30
1/2 + 3/6 is some how 4/8

And other very scary things

I been saying it for 7 years.

hopeless.

So what exactly does it mean that the USA is f-ed? What does that mean in 5 years, and 10 years, 20 years? How is it different than the Great Depression in the late 20's/early 30's?

I believe that the spiral will continue, but what happens when economic and political corruption destroys the "most powerful nation on Earth"?

I'm coming home and buying a bunch of ammo. That is all.

 

You live in the best country in the world and you say it is fucked? You should be ashamed. Sure, we bitch on these internet forums about how bad the past governments have been, what the current one is doing wrong now, but this is one of the few countries were this is not a crime. You could be hung for making comments about your government in many countries.

America, with all its errors, is still the best place to live for some of these reasons-

You can go to the movies and not worry about getting blown up.

You can own guns.

You have a constitutional right to pursue your dreams. (not be given your dreams, but pursue them)

You have half a million soldiers in an all volunteer army willing to die to make sure you keep those rights, even if they disagree with you.

Definitely good points sir!!!

And as a world traveler who has been
to 17 foreign countries I try to impress
upon my students how lucky they are
to have it so good.... BUT as those
younger generations get softer, weaker,
and less appreciative of our country the
more we are in peril of losing the rights
people before us paid the price to secure.

 
And half the people in the country are trying to take those rights away from you. Some times the fight to keep those right happen not on some battle field but in our own congress. We've lost more battles for freedom in the sennet then we ever did in war. Yes we bitch. We should. Thank god there are still some people left to bitch.

Lee

Ok, I agree with you on a lot of points.

BUT

"best" is a weird way to look at it. there are 1-5 billion people who also think they live in the best country.

I want to be a citizen no where but the USA because; I can afford health insurance, they let me fly airplanes, and I don't NEED to own guns. what would happen when one or more of those things is taken away?

and I did not mean just the USA is hopeless.
in 50 years there is going to be twice as many people on Earth. almost all of that growth is going to be in 3rd world countries.

were we not a little more popular then?



what? you can't have a .308 there?


isn't that kinda scary?
I mean, if this WAS the best country in the world, wouldn't we all think we DONT need guns?

wait. I have to be married to get my $800 ?

 

Thus the problem with asymmetric warfare.
but also the beauty of the free world.

 
I was just looking at this this morning. I assume you have all read your Atlas Shrugged. Any body else want to go on strike? I'm forming a local.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29372930

Lee

Obama, Pelosi, Biden absolutely SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!! CASE closed!!!!!!!!! Steppin on toes, you fuckin betcha!!! I want the world to go green, army green, with bad ass soldiers setting standards from sea to shining sea. Misguided brains can be stopped only with a high velocity projectile!!!
Bring back Bush, Cheney!!!!! Fuck the rhetoric!!!
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