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How do you all prefer to secure your slider on a slider down pack job?

Second question:

I also have a Wizard container that has pin toggles. The control lines have been attached by finger trapping them through the toggle grommet. Being that the control lines run through the slider, through the guide ring and attached to the toggle, the slider can not be removed without the aid of a rigger. My question is, is it ok to jump this set up slider down (secured of course by grommets under front riser bumpers) without damaging anything? I have only jumped this rig slider up at BD. I attached photos to help you see what I am referring too.

Since all of my jumps, except BD,
are below 500 feet I just remove
the slider and leave her stored
until October.

However, most people just use the
bumpers on the rapide links to keep
the slider locked in the down position.

Of course Gargoyles have their answer,
which is a small strap that snaps to the
front left riser.

I thought you were already packed and
ready for that mission... any news? PM

I was packed with the slider tied down with break cord , mission aborted, it's raining here and I was going to repack, reinspect and got the itch to ask the question for continuing education purposes:)

Thanks dude! I'll drink a bunch of beer and remove the slider. Alcohol and parachute rigging...what could go wrong

Someone with experience may want to correct me here, but i've always figured a slider choking the lines just above my head would create even more of a pivot point for twists and make what could be say a 100 off heading into something slightly worse.

But im a paranoid fella and only have a couple of jumps with my slider tied down. I like the way it flies taken off.

Edit: When i do it, i pull the front two grommets over my bumpers and leave the back ones alone.

So when you jump slider up, are you okay with it then?
Have you considered a high aspect ratio slider?
I have been using custom sliders for many years,
and have thrown out the manufacturers "restricto-sliders".
For example, for a Mojo 260, I use 17"x34", which allows
the risers to spread out completely, with even a little slider slack.
This mimics the flight of slider off jumping, which we all like so much.
Oh yeah, rigging sucks so I leave the sliders on, and stow the fronts under the bumpers.

PM sent about sliders.

don't forget that now you decide to leave the slider under neath the grommets for terminal jumps as well...

I prefer to secure it in a small nylon bag that I keep with my packing tools and extra pilot chutes. Keep it simple. Take the fucking thing OFF. Your canopy flight will thank you for it.

word.

Thanks Calvin, already done:)

Just a question for those who prefer to take it off. I've always reasoned that one pro for leaving it on is that if I ever experience riser / 3 ring failure the slider will probably prevent the released riser from being completely blown away and might keep the canopy flying better. I've seen video from 3 ring failure (slider up) and I must say that I was actually amazed how well the canopy was flying, also I've spoken with people who have witnessed simililar incident from ground and their observations were the same. I've always figured that the situation might not be the same if slider would not be there to keep the released riser from completely flying away. So the question is :
1) Do you see this as a valid point ?
2) If you do, do still take your slider off and secure your 3 rings with some additional system? (or jump with direct risers)

gear does not fail. people fail.

90% of my jumps are done without 3 rings or a cutaway at all, just one less thing to worry about.

riser release should never be a reason to leave a slider on in my opinion. riser release should never be a concern if you assemble and check your gear correctly.

I would think that if your worried about a riser coming off, you have other problems that should be dealt with first.

soft links

Do you use them to:
1) keep the slider down?
2) to lock off the 3 rings?
3) instead of rapide links?

I used soft links for a few jumps, no problems but i saw the potential for them.

I thought it was a great idea, but I found it served no purpose other than being different and marginal weight drop. and left the potential for the slider to come down and interfere with toggles or even blow one or both. and extremely difficult and complex to remove comparatively. (also mis-rigging, but that is not a factor IMO)

rapid links with large clear tube bumpers (NOT the milky tight stuff, the large allows better visibility and easier removal/slider change/slider lock down if you jump slider down)

I had a wizard and dagger and had the toggle set up like this, there is a method of removing the toggle without a rigger and without undoing the trapped loop. I cant explain it over the internet, and to be honest, I am not sure I remember it, someone out there with this combo should be able to show you......... it can be done...

Perhaps use it like a puzzle and figure it out.....

yeah, what Mac said

I had a pair of Vertigo risers and SYKO toggles for slider off/down and original WLO toggles for slider up.

You CAN remove the toggle from the brake line without undoing the fingertrap, if the fingertrapped loop is big enough.

How you do it is pull the loop along the brakeline to get the loop out of the grommet, then feed the loop over the entire toggle (or feed the toggle thorugh the loop if that makes more sense). Do it the correct direction an voila! it's free.

The size of the fingertrapped loop should be as specced for Vertigo's original WLO toggles.

Make it that size, then have someone put a few stitches in to keep it like that, I see no stitches keeping your fingertrap located right now.

If something I typed doesn't make sense, phone Jimmy Pouchert at Apex Moab and he'll be able to give you the skinny on that setup.

Like Mac and 980 said, no problem,
the finger trapping just replaces the
use of a knot, but nonetheless both
setups are basically a slip knot.

Just pull the brake line till the loop
gets bigger, then figuring out how to
get the toggle off will be easy.

FYI - using slip knot to attach toggles
and PCs is the same in both SKY and
BASE jumping.


I personally do not think you should
jump it in this configuration. Reason
why is because if you have a lineover
then you can not just throw the toggle.

I was taught, control lines run through
the slider and guide rings for slider-up
and run directly from the corner of the
canopy to the toggle for slider-off/down.



Only the most important thing on
the jump, which is you buddy

980 & MAC Thanks, all I had to do is just think outside the box.
Attached is the removal of the toggle with this set up Sorry not the best photos, but if some one would like I will take them over if more detail is needed.

Step 1 in pic 5 working the finger trapped loop up the control line (these were also stiched to close the loop)

Step 2 in pic 6 working the loop over the pin

Step 3 in pic 7 working the loop down the toggle

Step 4 in pic 9 working loop off the end of the toggle

Step 5 in pic 10 loop is free from toggle and is now free to pass through the toggle grommet

Step 6 in pic 11 control line free from toggle

I missed one last step:
SOMEBODY HELP ME GET MY BASE#!

here here. i take the damn thing off. even if its a pain in the ass to do so.
a. the canopy flies way cleaner
b. if your fighting a 180/ object strike id rather not have it there.
c. i wouldnt pack up a rag or tshirt in my container unless it was needed for the jump so why pack up a slider when its not doing shit.
as far as 3 ring release, well shit, do a friggin gear check. things just dont majicaly release.
my 2 cents. and it really doesnt take that long to change out, just dont get distracted while doing your rigging.

why?
honestly.

if you only want the number, you might be another statistic first.

IGNORE THE NUMBER. focus on being safe and knowing as much as possible. get a rigger's ticket. learn your gear. do not insist on quick results. let things happen at their own pace.

WAT!?!

word.

malfunctions are not failures.

thats good cuz the whole thing felt like a success

more along the lines of epic win.

I can't believe GreenMachine was the first and only person to (notice)mention that you are talking about doing a slider down base jump with your control lines routed through the slider. What break setting were you planning on using?

Jessica Klutmier can tell you that's not a good idea. I'd probably be jumping the space needle once a year if that hadn't jacked her up on a publicized space needle jump. Line over spun her into the grass and broke her back. If her control lines were outside the slider she probably could have dumped the toggle and been alright.

I agree with leaving the slider on in case of a single 3 ring failure. Obviously you should check your shit before you plan on jumping off of something and trusting your life to it, but who knows if some final destination shit happened and somehow your cutaway line worked its way out on one side. Plus it's easier to switch back and forth and lessens the chance of you fucking up your own rigging when taking it on and off.

Back to break settings. I don't have a ton of parachuting or rigging experience, so if there's more insight available hopefully people say something, but I think of my "deep" break setting as my slider down break setting and my "shallow" break setting as my slider up break setting.

For slider down, you want it as deep as you can get without stall. That way your forward speed is as slow as possible on opening. Writing this makes me think about how break setting could effect the speed of pressurization, hopefully somebody with more experience can comment on that.

For slider up you want it deep enough to shove the slider down without being to deep and stalling, and also keeping the forward speed as slow as possible. Hopefully people can comment on how shallow versus deep effects speed of slider decention.

As far as I know, most if not all base canopy's with manufacturer set break settings, if you used the deep break setting with the control lines routed through the slider the canopy would be in a stall until you popped the toggles and eased up a bit, or surged out.

I'm not sure about most (or all) base canopies but at least with Trolls the above is not correct. I have personal experience of about 100 slider down deployments with brake lines through the slider (without the line mod) with factory deep brake settings and the canopy opens fine. No stall and surge. I also know at least 2 other jumpers using this configuration and for they it works fine as well. If it is a good idea or not to go without line mod, that of course is totally another discussion and has been debated in this forum previously many times. :)

Do you mean for a slider up or down deployment? I think you're talking about slider up in the last paragraph but I'm not certain. For slider up, that's pretty accurate, for slider down, it would not be accurate. For slider down, the routing would not change the opening. (mine are routed outside the slider and guide ring by the way)

Lesson for the day about control lines: It is unpleasant to break a brake line.

Hope that helps.