Basejumper.com - archive

Well - it seems Jean has done it again and has seen fit to have the Boenish footage from YouTube removed. I don't know Jean personally but from what I've seen over the years she has gone all-out to squash any attempt to have her late-husband's footage viewed -except for an opportunity to make some $$$ off his dead carcass. (The new movie Gravity is such an example)

Gravity The Film - CLICKY

What harm was a couple of minutes of excerpt of Carl's footage from "Playground In The Sky" and "BASE 1" posted on YouTube. It was an opportunity for all those new jumpers (BASE and skydiving) to witness the greatness of his cinematographic creation... to discover Carl and to see his work.... to know who Carl was.

Carl's movies changed my life and the lives of others in way's I would have never thought ever imaginable and the attempts to stifle this man's legacy make me sick.

I urge any of you that have footage of Carl to keep this man's legacy alive and use whatever means you have to have this man's great films reach those skydivers and BASE'rs who have yet to experience his work.

What would Carl have wanted???

g.

 
Maybe it has something to do with that pesky "copyright issue" ???

just a thought.

...with all due respect.

Copyrights have no business in BASE.
If you opened it, it's yours.
If you film it, expect everyone to watch it.
Respect.
Have fun.
Survive.
~J

I met a lovely girl at a funeral who gave me a card that said "scissor kick" on it. From the introduction I got, and the association that was made, all i can say is...
let it go.
For us it's an object, or a life style, for some it was family, and a way of life that they could never truly understand.
Any public jump = $$$ for someone's "cause" The Kl jumps = $ for charity in malaysia.
twin falls = $ in local commerce.
Bridge Day keeps the lights on in Fayettville... Maybe Carls videos are keeping his widows lights on...
let it go.
~J

Nothing new. Jean's always been that way. Heck, we are good friends and she made me remove Carl's photograph from the BASE Fatality List . . .

But, it's her stuff after all.

The "scissor kick" lady is Marah and she's the late Mike Allen's niece.

NickD

As much as I would like to see his works of art, it dosen't matter "What would Carl have wanted?" This is because he is gone (RIP) and Jean is in control of this situtation.

Maybe after Jean passes, we can move forward.

with all due respect,

Le Roy

Hi,

Marah here, the director of the film Gravity the film mentioned in the post above. I have been working to archive and restore Carl’s footage, this process so far has taken four years. Jean is not making any money on my film although I wish she could, she has spent a lot of time restoring the footage with me. There is no money, there is only pure love for the footage and the quality and beauty of the story and footage.

It hurts me to read your posts. Our film is being made with absolute love, respect and honor of your sport. I promise you this is not a money making venture. I have spent every dime I have saving Carl’s footage from crumbing. This is not Hollywood money or TV money this is my money and maybe a thousand hours of time. I don’t see this as a way to make money.

If anyone from the BASE community would like to get involved in saving Carl’s footage or working on my film with me, please email me marah@scissorkickfilms.com. I need a lot of help with this.


Thank You,

Marah Strauch
www.gravitythefilm.com

I also know from personal experience how people will disrespect the images of BASE-jumping I produced with the late Mike Allen.

I have all the respect in the world for Jean, Carl was on of my mentors in the 80's. This idea of freely distributing his images is totally insane. I've known Jean for 25 years and if it weren't for her efforts none of you would be enjoying the sport you hold so dear. These images are not produced for free and to freely distribute then on the Internet is an affront to the author. So have a little more respect for those who've given you so much and in some cases their life perfecting this sport.

Now on to my second point; Marah is on a noble cause one which I support as well. Please help this effort! Many of the images in question may be lost to future generations if steps are not taken now.

Bryan
Camera/Editor

I cant wait, when is it going to be released? I wanted to get my hands on some of carls old 16mm footage ever since I started learning about BASE...Im sure this will be an EPIC film:)

Isn't it interesting that half the posts on this site are vociferous arguments about the rights of the content owner (ref: the recent photo in a magazine thread, and many others preceding it) but there seems to be the opinion that Carl's stuff should be owned by all...

I would love to have access to his footage and would watch it if it was available online, but Jean owns it and its absolutely her choice as to how it gets used. Much like the owners of the above mentioned photos.

Carl may be the "father of the sport" but that doesn't automatically give us access to his stuff.

I have no problem with money being made from Carl's footage by the copyright owner(s).

I do have a problem with every film and image of Carl being hoarded away for a quarter of a century.

There are next-to-no images of Carl to be found anywhere. His films are not readily available.

The copyright owners can in no way lose any profits from 7min of grainy YouTube video, on the contrary I feel that it would only serve to spark interst in further discovery (and sales) of Carl's work and would benifit Jean and Scissor-Kick Films financially. It is not the same issue as a magazine photo which can be used in it's entirety.

The reality is that it's inevitable that Carl's work will eventually find it's way online as a torrent-share file. I own video of all Carl's work except P.I.T.S. and will show it every chance I get. I will not upload it as, I believe, it's not what Carl would have wanted- but it's gonna happen. The Scissor-Kick film will also be available as bit-torrent as soon as it's released, placing Carl's footage on-line forever.

I don't think Carl would have wanted his beloved wife Jean to be ripped-off by new technology and miss out on potential money.

It didn't occur to me that Jean may be hoarding the works as a life-line to Carl, If this is so then I wish her peace and compassion and hope she finds solace in his memory and legacy.

If anyone would like to purchase Carl's works you can obtain them in PAL VHS format from this website.

g.

To Marah

I'm at a loss to understand why you choose to be upset at my words as my feelings were directed at Jean's actions. If you read my post you will see that I am a stand for people seeing Carl's work and your film is another step in that direction and for that I applaud you. Why else would I have given your film a plug here in a target audience?

I was also not aware of the intent of the venture, nor the history and connections of the people involved as well as your financial sacrifice. Usually film-making is all about profit and there's nothing to indicate otherwise as at first-glance a production company is a production company. But in any event, my words were directed at Jean, not you.

Good luck with the venture and I hope it all falls in place well.

Gary

So, if not for Jean there would be no such thing as BASE jumping?! I say you are totally wrong on that statement and reaching pretty far. It may have evolved in a slightly different manner but come on, let's be serious....

To Bryan

My reference to the lack of images of Carl online is just to illustrate the lack of material anywhere. It certainly is not meant to mean that I think his work should be avaliable for free. My point is that his work should be available for sale in the US to those that wish to see it. This would serve to have Jean profit from the sales and have newer jumpers see Carl's work (and not think Miles D. is the forefather of BASEjumping).

To say that if it were not for Jean we all wouldn't be enjoying the sport we hold so dear is ridiculous. Human nature and parachute technology would've seen to that. Mike and Brian were the first and were never going to be the last.

Carl and Jean and the others at that time gave us the word BASE and those early pioneering jumps and I am respectful of that. To voice my opposition at some of Jean's actions is not disrespectful (unless you are from a Communist society). Over many years I have learned much from many and have the utmost respect for those that have given their lives to this sport, some very close and dear, and I'll take your implication that I have no respect as a sign of your lack of knowledge of me personally and just a part of lively internet discussion.

What I do respect is the relationship Jean has with her beloved husband and how i think It would serve Jean better to have the profits from the sales before the inevitable happens and someone uploads all his work to bit-torrent and she loses out on all that money.

g.

O.k., I'm confused by this whole mess. people like to use the term "rights," as in the phrase "it is within her rights." unfortunately, they leave out the modifier legal, moral, or ethical. the three are totally different.

of course, Jean has the LEGAL right to see Carl's work distributed as she feels most appropriate. I do not know what her thinking is, nor will I guess. she can withhold permission if she feels like it.

people need to remember that when you choose a course, you choose the consequences. some have felt hurt by Jean's request to remove footage.

and then there is this:

for a very practical standpoint, the footage IS ALREADY LOST to the current generation of jumpers. once the footage is salvaged, will Jean's policy change?

if Jean wishes to exercise her legal rights to prevent access, isn't it then her job to preserve it?

if the community chooses to help Marah, should they have access to it? (other than a film that probably will NOT include all of Carl's work.)

these are the moral and ethical discussions that have yet to occur.

I'd like the films preserved. I wish Marah well. it's just that communities frequently preserve things under the umbrella of a museum or similar organization. it ensures the community can then view the item. I fail to understand the thinking here.

can anyone help me out? where am I wrong?

Gary,

Bottom line this whole thread is about copyright and Jean can do what she wants. She isn’t denying anyone access, they can put their money down and purchase what they want.


My statement should have read "Jean and Carl" but don't understate Jeans roll in this sport before and after Carl's death. Think how Carl's film work helped promote the sport. So I wouldn’t diminish the Boenish's influence. BASE may exist, but not what it is today. So I do defend her rights to distribution for many reasons.


Its spelled Bryan but I'll answer to almost anything. I had no expectations that Mike and I would be the last. I commend anyone who can carry the torch. We did what we could on the budget we had available. We did everything in our power 84-92 to help promote BASE in print and television. Believe me when I say TV didn’t pay much and many were afraid to even touch it, they believed we had a death wish and promoted the exploits of others who did as well. Today this is slowly changing.


From my standpoint and I cant speak for Jean, Mike and I couldn't sell enough copies to pay for the costs of production. PERIOD People we didn’t know would walk up to us all the time and commend us on our work; they had a copy but didn’t purchase one. After awhile it gets disheartening. This is a problem with these niche sports, I've experienced the same thing photographing CRW, there aren't enough people in these disciplines to help offset the expense of the field and postproduction work, "if you focus only on the jumpers for support." Many feel they're entitled to freely make copies for friends so you end up doing most of the work out of pocket unless you can find other streams of revenue. I've endured a lot of criticism for selling my CRW wraps for instance, but it helps me offset the production expenses, without it I'd go broke, it helps keep me in the game.

To-date the work I did with Mike still stands as a financial shortfall, we weren't the greatest businessmen and it was an uphill battle for acceptance from outside media interests. That may be changing today. I wouldn't be surprised if this were true for Jean as well. Although for me I had other problems with distributing and reworking the materials after Mike's death that I wont discuss here.

Currently I'm in the process of restoring what I can of Mike's and my work. I can't tell you when that might be finished because there is much to do and hurdles to still overcome. If a market can be determined, I'll do what I can to get more of these historical works out there.


No I don’t know you but your being incredibly callus, insensitive and disrespectful of Jean. I can tell you don’t understand the scope of your statements and I don’t understand your motivations for airing all this. I mean that honestly, take a minute and reflect on your statements. You talking about work that was produced in the 70's and 80's. In those days it wasn’t just a matter throwing this stuff on the hard drive and putting it on Youtube for the world to see. The post production expenses today have waned a little bit but ask any serious production guys out there and they'll tell you it still isn't cheap, "unless your two guys with a camcorder and your audience doesn’t expect much."

Skies,
Bryan
Camera/Editor

Hey Bryan.

Can I purchase any BASE films you and Mike put together? Mine were stolen years ago.

thanks

I've only known Jean for 15 years, my experience with her has been that she has not been any help.
In fact she has been more of a hindrance.
I never met Carl, but I met some guys who jumped with him.
My impression is that Carl made film so the world could see.
We've all seen Carl's stuff, it just keeps disappearing.
I interpret the title of the original post as free(dom) for Carl's images,
not that we should all get it for free.
As you say, she can do what she wants,
but is his wish being fulfilled by his next of kin?
No one is really "in charge" of BASE,
but my opinion is that if she had any real influence,
the sport would be years behind.
Jean made a BASE jump, but she ain't no BASE jumper.

This is an old thread, but the air needs to be cleared. My brother Carl despised copyright theft. In personal life he would never view a film that was bootlegged, period no questions asked. He worked hard at what he did and his films supported his dreams.

yeah, but I cannot even buy one of his films? Even if Jean gets the money... Except for Marah's recent work, Carl's work is pretty much lost to history...

Be patient, I recently spent a day with Marah. Gravity will be a great film. All the 16mm originals have been digitized to fix the color changes and damage from the years. Carl couldn’t bear seeing the poor quality of his work that is available on you tube. Marah has given this footage new life. It will be worth the wait.

This is the second interesting thread on BJ in awhile. Good points on both sides. Legally, no question, any Carl B films that have not already been sold belong to Jean. True, we all wish this would have come out sooner. However, given the dramatic changes we have seen in the BASE world in the last 15 years or so, if you are going to do a documentary about the history of BASE jumping in 2013, it's sort of dumb to stop at 1984 when Carl died. Much of Marah's delay, which I too have criticized since we endorsed her efforts several years ago on this site, was due to funding and where to end it. From what we saw in LA last month, they are going full steam ahead.
I do share sympathies that other Carl B footage is not widely available and I hope after this Gravity film comes out, it will be made so. From a common sense standpoint, the market is now, while jumpers want to see the history. I would like to see a DVD for sale with some of the raw footage showing Carl's "quirky" personality. Anyway, don't come down on Marah or Jean right now since they are working like crazy to get something out. I'm glad to be a small part of it and can't wait to see it.
Rick
38

Gravity has been in the works for at least 8 years. It's now or never.

Couldn't agree more

Not to get too far off topic, but is the "Thats Incredible" tv show footage of Carl and Jean available anywhere? I saw that as a 12 year old in 1984 and knew that I was going to BASE jump some day. I would really love to watch that again. Thanks

I'm sure Jean has a copy. I'll never forget the show since it aired after Carl died and they paid tribute at the end of the show.

That's exactly how I remembered it, along with the amazing footage of Carl in free-fall with the cliff speeding past him. It was love at first sight, and I can still recall parts of that episode almost 30 years later watching it at a friends house. I don't think I've ever seen something that left a lasting, life-long impression on me. It would mean a lot to me to see that again.