Basejumper.com - archive

To skip a long story and know what the point of the poll is, go straight to the last paragraph; otherwise, read on.

So, it's almost the end of the contract and we happened to be getting this last week end off.

I Emailed Gloei and Arie about jumping in Joburg and they told me to pull in.

Friday before lunch I tied my rig on the bike and got out of Botswana where I have been for the last 4 months. I hadn't packed the rain suit thinking I wouldn't need it... I left the Gaborone heat in shorts and T shirt; the leather jacket strapped to the rig but no rain suit. 4 1/2 hours later I experienced the worst cloudburst I ever had on a bike. Had to stop at a fuel station and wait it out (tank was also alarmingly low). Finally I got to their diggs and our hopes of jumping the A that night were anihilated by the thunder and lightning (besides I could hardly speak from shivering so much).



Saturday we woke up to shitty weather but decided to head out to a B in town. We repacked our rigs to slider down in the spacious, carpeted reception area, moving the designer furniture around while the security guards made sure nobody stepped on our rigs. Unfortunately the wind was playing its tricks so we decided to head on out to Soweto.

20-30mn drive and we were being received with open arms by the rope jumper who operate a little business from these twin towers. They allowed us a lift to the top in their elevator and made sure we got to the exit safely without falling off.

Conditions were good-ish and Arie went off first. I followed a few seconds later and what a ground rush!! Arie and I high fived and all the stuff you do when you've just jumped. I hadn't jumped in 4 months and that 'first jump' feeling is just awesome.

By the time Gloei and Fritz got to the exit, the wind had gone too strong and didn't want to drop. They eventually opted for the slower way down.



We tried for the B in town and even went to the top twice after that but no luck. It just wasn't going to happen. Saturday night, the security guard closed the gate after letting us on the roof and went back to the bottom. At one point we could picture ourselves camping it out. Luckily Arie and Karem managed to catch the attention of one of the residents who called the guard back up.



What's the point of this poll?
Ihave been BASE jumping over a period 5 years now and close to 220 jumps (not that many indeed). I have been wanting to get my BASE # but over that time I had never done a B. I figure the dynamics are the same as a B, only I am not sure if I would be justified in calling it as such and applying for my BASE #.

From the poll results after about a week i will decide wether to apply or not. Below is a pic of them I stole off the net. Thanks

If you think its a building; its a building. If you don't; its not. Your base # is for you. Filing for your number has always been based on honesty. No one it checking up on you. Its about the experience and earning each jump. How will getting your number change you as a jumper? If you have that many doubts about it, wait until you get something else that is undeniably a building. This isn't our debate its yours.

Ody

Look, I just want to make a decision based on the opinions of BASE jumpers. When you're not alone at the exit and the conditions aren't pristine, don't you ask for the other jumpers opinions? The decision to jump or not is still yours, but you still ask for opinions don't you?

It's a link to history, and even though that number and card won't allow me a 40 G overdraft, I think it's till a nice thing to have...

It's a smokestack, not a building.

Other........

Using the skinflicka 5 year old rule... they are obviously chimneys / smokestacks and never a building.

We had this discussion a few years back after doing a 500ft chimney that one guy wanted to use as his qualifying jumps, he did not in the end and waiting for a proper building.

The fact you need to ask kinda answers your own question.

Well... it's mainly because it only "kinda answers" that I asked.

... And Mac; shot for the post bru; good to hear from you. The poll seems to be showing the majority of people would not define them as buildings. Jumping friends are mostly of the same opinion.
Of those that were there, Arie said yes and Gloei said no. So far it looks as though I am walking down on this one.

On the dutch skyscraperspage, a smokestack is listed as a building.

Ronald

Need you say more.....

Hey man,,

I feel like teorically it can be considered as a building.Because just like you said it has all the dynamics of a building.But if i am in the same stuation i would wait to apply till i jumped of a real building.

I'd like to second what Ody said. it's all about your personal taste. what you choose.

is it more important to jump "pure" objects and create a fifth category of "O" or is it more important to categorize everything as a B, A, S, or an E?

one implies a BASE jumper, the other a BASEO jumper.

how about a building under construction? say it is only really framework. B or A?
how about a dam?
how about a "needle" building topped with an observation deck AND an antenna? B or A?

I prefer the wind hazard method of classification (reportedly created by Carl B.). it is the only system I know of that helps resolve these questions WITHOUT creating a new object category. it does not classify an object based on what it looks like. just figure out which wind patterns are at work for an object!

B - wind blows around
A - wind blows through
S - wind blows under
E - wind blows over
(this system requires thought)

others prefer to ask a 5-year old.
(this system is simple and avoids debate)

or you can ask Rick and Joy to see if they care!

So by that standard a dam would be considered an earth jump... and how about a gondola? Wind blows around, under, and over. I don't agree. I think the "other" category simplifies things. A crane is definitely not a building and definitely not an antenna, so where would you group that? In the "other" category. How also do you think this new Chinese cave would be logged, would you consider it a bridge because they are dropping from the middle of a cable? You can't logically group every object that we jump these days into BASE.

(I'm not sure why it matters to "these days." the same issues have been there since day 1.)

if "you can't logically group every object" then why call yourself a BASE jumper? (cliff jumper, fixed object jumper, etc. still apply.) if you think the original rules are irrelevant, then aren't the numbers irrelevant as well?

if you choose NOT to follow Carl's rules, why apply for one of Carl's numbers?

and I bet someone can come up with a photo of a structure resembling those that POC provided, yet they have doors, floors, and windows. in other words, while it looks similar to the objects in question, it is undeniably a B. is it right to classify both differently?

in the end, it is all an honor system. everyone can create their own definitions if they choose. no organization can say you are wrong.

stay safe.
have fun.

...some prefer to ask a 5-year old

That's great

"(I'm not sure why it matters to "these days." the same issues have been there since day 1.)"

So they were jumping caves in China from day one? See, evolution and adaptation demand that we look outside the "box" of BASE. MANY people feel the same way, there is no way to group all of these objects into an acronym. Thats all it is, is an acronym to define our sport, but what you are saying is that it should essentially limit our sport to these four classifications. It is much more complex than that, Mr. Boenish just didn't know it yet. I don't think he could have forseen then what BASE jumping has become now. Also, if you say you can logically group every object (which means you can call yourself a BASE jumper) then please, as I stated before, tell me where you would put a crane, a dam, a cable, etc. People used to say the world was flat, you know...

Ironically, this is the one we tried to jump
It has a hollow core...

a dam - solid object behind you. wind blowing over the top to create turbulence. yep, sounds like the same hazards as a cliff, so an E.

a cable car - the cable actually connects two points. it spans a gap. there is little potential for an object strike. sure does sound like an S. also consider the RGB event. whether you exit from the bridge or the cable car, aren't the exit to opening hazards the same?

the China cave - hanging from a cable, there is little hazard from exit to opening. it might require solid accuracy skills, but many sites do as well.

crane - depends. I have exited a crane with the structure right behind me just like an A. I've also dropped off the horizontal arm of a crane, just like dropping off an S. what kind of crane and the chosen exit point make a difference. (heck a 30 foot antenna on top of a building isn't really an A either...)

humans love to classify things, then argue about it. lawyers and court systems feed this need. everybody wants to "prove" they're right. if you wish to believe I'm wrong, fine. I get that all the time. no big deal.

Calling a dam an earth jump and a crane an "A" is just silly though, really. I mean, logbooks from the manufacturers have a category for "other". See, whats funny, is you are the one trying to classify everything, whereas what I am saying is that it is too complex to classify. Also, jumping at the gorge from the tram and the bridge are very different. The bridge puts you much closer to the walls at a more narrow point than the tram, line twists out of the tram are going to be much more forgiving in my opinion, whereas having line twists off the bridge with a 90 right or left is almost always gonna be a wall strike (unless you steer above the twist, or kick out REALLY fast). Have you jumped there? If so, we have met one another I am sure.

I think, also, you are looking too much into the hazards of the object, and not the object itself. If I jumped off, say, an arch in moab that has characteristics like a bridge, would anyone ever call it a bridge? I have heard of people jumping off of trees (seriously), it is stick-like, so would you then call it an "A"? I would most certainly call that an earth jump, as the tree comes from the earth (not to point out the obvious).

really? I have not seen (or even looked for) a BASE logbook. if these have an "O" checkbox, it is probably because someone asked for it. vendors respond to clientele, even when they disagree. a sale is a sale.

I'm trying to answer POC's original question. I figured the soundest way to get one of Carl's numbers is to follow Carl's rules...

and I like the photo POC posted of the B they attempted to jump! aside from height, there appears to be little difference between it and what he DID jump.

(I did not create the idea of classifying based on hazard.)

what is so special about an object and how it looks? really. I had a friend who wished to climb the highest mountain on each continent. some require tons of preparation and skill. Kilimanjaro does not. people do it on a lark.

different hazards require different assessments, different thinking. being versatile enough to overcome these differences demonstrates skills better than using the 5-year old rule. (where does that rule lead?)

thus I prefer to think about objects base on hazards, or skills required by that object. many disagree.

Funny, I think have seen video of that "B" being jumped. Yeah, aside from height, oh, and windows, people, rooms, kitchens, closets, etc. I mean, I understand where you are coming from, and POC, if you feel you should send in for your number from the silo, you should, it is a structure that was "built". I know a lot of people who got their numbers from something others thought wasn't legit (i.e. grain silo's) and the worst you will get is some shit from other jumpers. In my opinion, though, and if you google silo pictures, then building pictures. You will get a distinct difference in results. I clean windows on buildings for a living, I have never had to clean a silo before... oh, and I think saying "Carls numbers" is wrong, if my memory serves me, it was a group effort, and Phil Smith was #1.

"thus I prefer to think about objects base on hazards, or skills required by that object. many disagree."

Actually I agree completely, but then you wouldn't consider the captain the same type of object as the high nose? I know that one requires a hell of a lot more skill, and has a hell of a lot more hazards. They are still both cliffs. For example, the RG, I jump with the caution of a cliff jump, but would you log it as an "E"?

Again, it is something too complex to put into four classes. Some of my friends like to use the skiing terms, and break it down into different parts of the jump, exit, opening, landing, etc. and give each a different difficulty. Some places are easy peasy, and then you have to land...

actually they are not chimneys or smokestacks, but rather they are cooling towers

check Eskom's website for verification if you'd like...

Nice! Love your work

I jumped the inside of a cooling tower once. That was pretty fun:)

Don't worry, I will start another poll once I have jumped it...

poc
BASE# 20148622

I jumped from a 150 foot totem pole.

What about jumping off a 1000ft. crane on the vertical section just below the horizontal arm?

Having jumped from a few `real` A`s as well I must say the climb up, exit and visuals are similar.

J.

Nice!! Glad you guys got to jump those towers!!! I had seen a website for them and was going to email Arie about them... they look nice.

I would say Not 2 B's...
1 "B"
1 "O" other

I like my "O' catagory... it has many of my favorite jumps in it... like cooling towers!

The "B" with the hollow core was a great jump...when are you guys going to jump in the middle with a round? The trash should make for a soft landing

Yes fun indeed! Top 10 jumps

true, but, again, google antennas, and google cranes, very different results. Antennas transmit (hence "antenna"). If someone sent in for their number, qualifying for "A" by jumping a crane, do you think that would be right?

What about an Antenna that's disused and doen't transmit then?

I bet it's already happened!
whether you call the it BASE jumping, BASEO jumping, or fixed object jumping, there is no governing body establishing rules.

Some people classify power towers (or power pylons) as antennas and they're clearly not antennas. Cranes are not antennas etc...

I personally think KL tower should not be classified as a building either for the sake of qualifying.

Regardless of what it may be or could be classified as, it's pretty simple to determine what is a qualifier if you want the card.

An antenna isn't really an antenna unless it's AM. It's a tower that supports antennas. Sounds kind of silly now doesn't it?

Poc... congratulations getting off those cooling towers. Some day I'll get one of those...

 
Who the FUCK CARES!!!!

get out and jump something for fucks sake. You are still a BASE jumper either way!