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do you pay tax ?
is there law the requires you to pay tax
what is new world order
here is a video

No Comment

No, it is my understanding that there is no law that requires you to pay federal income tax. People pay it because they are told to pay it by the government... and people love to follow. They also feel pressured by the possibilities of jail or fines or whatever. Fear causes many to follow the "laws".

The NWO is a complicated subject that brings many opinions to the table. It's a multifaceted cans of worms. Basically it boils down to elite, powerful and influential people trying to gain complete control over the human race by various means. They also want to reduce world population to under 1bn again by various means, to put less strain on the worlds resources...= more for them. They want One world government, one centralized bank, etc. They are in high power positions and are very good at manipulating the populace by FEAR. Once citizens are frightened they take away freedoms claiming it's for security, the country, the economy, whatever.

The video Freedom to Fascism by Aaron Russo is a good film that hopefully will open peoples eyes to some of the injustices the are being perpetrated on the american people. I'm not saying all of it is truth and I agree with it all but at least it gives you something to contemplate. Keeping an open mind to all ideas and forming your opinions and beliefs from logic and evaluation not on fear and propaganda is, in my opinion, the proper way to come to a conclusion as to what is right (in your head). Too many people will automatically dismiss videos like this simply because they are lead to... things like this get labeled under "conspiracy theories" and the media/government/NWO have done an outstanding job to lump all knowledge that is controversial into the "conspiracy theory box" and therefore anyone who might be interested in the subjects are automatically turned off by the fact that they will be label as crazy, looney or out of touch. People don't want to look stupid or be ridiculed by their friends or colleagues so they usually don't open those cans of worms. They stay lazy and content getting their knowledge fed to them from Fox/CNN, or whatever controlled mass media outlet they subscribe to. A Perfect Circle has a few songs that touch on this stuff. "Let's have a war" and "Pet" are interesting, read the lyrics and listen to the music. Think about the point they are trying to get across. Here is Pet video from APC..http://video.google.com/...perfect+circle++war#

Personally I'm always open to new ideas and theories, be they "scientific", "conspiracy", bullshit or whatever. I like to get as much info as possible, do more research and then cull out the stuff I think is BS

Sorry for the interruption... "GO BACK TO SLEEP!"

I pay as little as possible. It is not hard when you are self-employed but it gets really complicated when you get a pay check. I had a friend when I held a computer job (12 years ago) that did not pay any taxes, he had a lawyer that would go to court and fight it every year. This worked for years, until the lawyer turned up on a milk carton. The last time I talked with him about 5 years ago he still was not paying but dealing with all those nice notices that I get some times. “INTENT TO LEVY” 570 pointed out a great documentary that all should view “Freedom to Fascism by Aaron Russo” it is available on netflix.

I am not going back to sleep!!!!!!!!!! I just woke the fuck up a few years ago.


Peace,
Pauly

 

o.k. something appears odd...

airdog07 provided a link to "America: Freedom to Fascism"

then AdamLanes chimed in with:

huh?
Fascism is a tyranny from the right, while Communism is tyranny of the left.

or put another way:

as the two represent opposing views, the US can NOT be headed toward BOTH.

which is it?

the US can NOT be headed toward BOTH

Sure it can, like someone who
eats donuts and does sit-ups.

Part of society pulls one way
while some pull goes the other.

The only upside is hopefully
both of those forces cancel
each other out.

 
No me and 570 provided that link to "America: Freedom to Fascism" which is a great documentary.

And Adam stated

"AdamLanes wrote:A progressive income tax and a state central banking system are two fundamental tenets of COMMUNISM!"

I personally don't subscribe to ANY ism's it tends to lead to AA meetings.

But to be sure we are heading somewhere bad. I am just trying to have fun while going there.....

Peace,
Pauly

Dude, why are you taking an important discussion about the need to abolish the IRS and the Federal Reserve Bank, and turning it into a meaningless tangent of the distinction between fascism and communism? My last comment that the progressive income tax and federal reserve bank are planks of communism is taken straight out of Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto. Fascism and Communism are both evil systems. I do not know what political continuum you are imagining where they exists at opposite ends. Obviously one that does not include freedom.

did you see the quote?
Fascists and Communists have always opposed each other!

as GreenMachine stated, hopefully they cancel each other out. it is what a free market of ideas is all about! both sides make their argument. both sides appear to have an advantage. both sides get nervous that the other will win. (it reminds me of US Presidential politics.)

that's what competition looks like! and competition is the what makes free markets work.

good ideas come from all kinds of places (as stated upboard). the US got the idea for it's interstate system from the enemy. the Communist Manifesto might have good ideas.

for example... the "opiate of the masses" is a tremendously powerful concept echo'd in Nixon's "silent majority." (I doubt anyone would consider Richard Milhouse a commie.)

but you're right. I've distracted from your regular commentary against the Fed... my bad.

Fascism and communism are both totalitarian forms of government and are the antithesis of free markets.

what abut free masons(new world order) bush is member and other president and senators, bankers.
why nobody knows who run federal reserve or who is the bankers any body ?

Do you guys know what happens if you look
in a mirror at midnight on Halloween & say,
"Bloody Mary" 3 times real fast?




















Wait for it....




















Nothing!!!

fascism is a totalitarian form of government. true.
but it is RIGHT wing. it's people take pride in their history and are very nationalistic. they desire to build on past glory.

communism is totalitarian form of government. true.
but it is LEFT wing. it's people take pride in rejecting the past and rebuilding society. they generally describe their movement as a revolution.

thus, if you want to go to the extreme to protect the status quo, fascism if for you.

conversely, if you want to tear down and rebuild, go for communism!

most of us are in the middle, between the two extremes. we want to honor our past while creating a new future. the US has done a good job of avoiding being stuck in tradition, while still avoiding too rapid of change. the free markets work well at "creative destruction." the best ideas win after a bit of a brawl.

that is why government interference can suck. instead of the best idea winning, they choose a winner.

(that should explain the irony of a thread where one person fears fascism, while another communism. the fact that your BOTH nervous might mean we are in the middle somewhere...)

o.k.

anyone for Fed bashing?
how about bailing out Detroit?

your teacher you don't have any input on it or is it just don't care, cant do any thing abut it attitude

Maybe the ensuing backlash that would happen if they admitted the "law" was not really a law. Sometimes it's easier to keep perpetuating the lie than to come clean... especially if they might have to pay back the illegally obtained funds over the last half century+. Plus why rock the boat when most people don't know or are too scared to fight it.
Paying the tax is voluntary not mandatory. The "law" would violate the 4th, 5th, 6th, 13th and 16th amendments to the constitution if it were mandatory. That's why they continually refer to the 'voluntary compliance' nature of this tax.
The Federal Reserve is an evil entity... they are the reason for the IRS. The IRS is the heavy hand of the FED. As long as we continue to have the FED and IRS, we will continue to move closer to slavery.

Debt is slavery

ok enough of this... gotta pack for Moab

If you were part of one of the biggest frauds in history would you want everyone to know you were part of it?
Personally I'd keep it secret too... for 'health' reasons!

To be honest, I am NOT 100% sure
if the income tax was really passed,
is legal, etc.

However, I do know 2 things:
1) If we don't pay the IRS can fuck you up.
2) The Federal government needs $$ to run.

In my opinion, a Federal sales tax would be
much better than a tax on income because:
1) We Americans consume too much.
2) Income tax reduces incentives to work.
3) A tax on purchases would generate $$$
from hookers, drug dealers, bartenders,
strippers, illegal immigrants, assassins,
packers, and anyone else who makes
money under the table.

here's an interesting video...

http://"http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936&hl=en"

What about totalitarian democracy? We all vote, but those who have the money are the ones with the power.
Capitalism is only concerned with the accumulation of wealth. workers and people are unimportant. When businesses fail because of competition, what happens to the workers, the people creating the wealth? They are at the mercy of the "market". Take a look at the current economic situation. Who gets the bailout? Not the workers....
Those with money have the influence, and get the "bailout"

fix url http://video.google.com/...0256183936&hl=en

an amazing percentage of new businesses fail. the workers of these companies will have made money, while the owners will have lost money. sometimes the owners have lost significant savings. the owners accept the greater risk, and receive the chance of a greater reward.

the owners tend to be the hare.
the workers tend to be the slow and steady tortoise.

established companies that struggle to compete frequently have a high cost structure. the high wages invites new competition.

witness the technology cycle as seen in rail, auto, steel, aviaition, computers, etc.

new technology introduced.
few people have the required skills, and get paid handsomely. the jobs have status. the complexity protects companies from competition.

companies develop automation to control quality and cut costs.
the workers rarely suffer an immediate pay cut. they just view their job as easier (and frequently safer).

new companies continue the innovation cycle and start up businesses with people making far less than the established players.
the established players fail to react timely. many folks will refuse to accept a pay cut. the companies wither and seek government assistance.

remember, few companies survive to see their 100 year anniversary. they fail and they fail in recognizable patterns.

the u.s. system of central banking, etc is the worst possible system, except for all the other systems available.

having studied monetary theory, the idea of no central bank makes no sense to me. however, the central bank's origins are truly interesting:

try reading something about Benjamin Strong. it's is hypothesized that if he had not died, he might have been able to avert the Great Depression.

from wiki:

Planning of the Federal Reserve System
At the end of November 1910, Senator Nelson W. Aldrich and Assistant Secretary of the Treasury Department A.P. Andrews, along with many of the country's leading financiers; who together represented about one-sixth of the world's wealth, arrived at the Jekyll Island Club to discuss monetary policy and the banking system, an event which some say was the impetus for the creation of the Federal Reserve.

Forbes magazine founder Bertie Charles Forbes wrote several years later:

Picture a party of the nation's greatest bankers stealing out of New York on a private railroad car under cover of darkness, stealthily riding hundred of miles South, embarking on a mysterious launch, sneaking onto an island deserted by all but a few servants, living there a full week under such rigid secrecy that the names of not one of them was once mentioned, lest the servants learn the identity and disclose to the world this strangest, most secret expedition in the history of American finance. I am not romancing; I am giving to the world, for the first time, the real story of how the famous Aldrich currency report, the foundation of our new currency system, was written... The utmost secrecy was enjoined upon all. The public must not glean a hint of what was to be done. Senator Aldrich notified each one to go quietly into a private car of which the railroad had received orders to draw up on an unfrequented platform. Off the party set. New York's ubiquitous reporters had been foiled... Nelso (Aldrich) had confided to Henry, Frank, Paul and Piatt that he was to keep them locked up at Jekyll Island, out of the rest of the world, until they had evolved and compiled a scientific currency system for the United States, the real birth of the present Federal Reserve System, the plan done on Jekyll Island in the conference with Paul, Frank and Henry... Warburg is the link that binds the Aldrich system and the present system together. He more than any one man has made the system possible as a working reality.[8]

1. Yes Americans consume a lot, maybe too much in some cases. However this also helps drive the economy. Now where that argument fails is when people OVER spend their budget on credit.

2. Income tax doesn't discourage people to work harder. If I could be in a higher tax bracket (with the assoicated pay check) I'm okay with that. In fact I am working on getting into that tax bracket. If you are on the bubble, maybe it holds water, but not very much.

3. Interesting group of people there. You list assassins. really? Im sure the Assassin tax would bring us right out of this crisis. Assassins pay taxes because they are federal employees of the CIA. And then you also list bartenders. You may have been under the table but I certainly am not. I also pay a sales tax of 8.75% anyway. if the fed started to tax my spending too then I am getting in line for welfare.
People are already NOT spending money. know another way to shut down the economy more, add another accross the board sales tax.

He's talking about a flat federal sales tax with no direct income tax. Everybody would pay the same tax, because only purchases would be taxed. Wealthy people would pay more because they buy more.

The issue is that the federal reserve "central bank" is a private corporation. The money that it dispenses, created from nothing, with no backing, is sold with interest to the government. Ever increasing debt, because the only way to pay the debt is with the money created by the private bank, with more interest.
The "fed" is an autonomous corporation.

A reply is coming...

After I teach my 8 o'clock class!!

1. Americans consume too much.

Just look at our debt levels!! Um our
National debt, Private Companies debt,
and Personal debt are all fucked!

Look at the obesity rate in the USA.
How about the spike up in type two
diabetes among kids.

In most working class families both
parents work to provide for more
stuff and end up in divorce.


2. Very Simple: Taxes DO affect behavior!

In Goodfellas why do they sell cigs out
the back of a tractor trailer, well to make
money but why do people buy them when
they were legal?

Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion are real!!
Ever get a better price on a cash deal?

Think of a road trip with two possible routes:
Turnpike vs. Interstate, the former is shorter
but has a toll, while the latter is longer but
cheaper. Which do you choose?

Sure, gas prices, fuel efficiency of the car,
time constraints, and budget constraints
all factor in but the bottom line for many
would be is the effort of avoiding the fee
worth the savings?

Some people always want to maximize their
income while others are just fine living on
less money in exchange for a rewarding job
or employment that offers a challenge or in
my case, a job that gives me 3 months off!

3. Taxing Consumption

Like mfnren said, the tax on consumption
would replace the tax on earnings because
we SHOULD want to reward people for making
money because it means they created or did
something society valued, like velcro, or BJs,
or invented a new cookie, or cured cancer.

There are many of us who have worked odd
jobs where the pay was in cash and under
the table, those earnings are not taxed.

maybe a significant subset of the rich are rich because they are cheap and don't buy anything. one does not get rich by tipping well, conspicuous consumption, or paying their people a competitive salary.

That's really a business decision. The good business people will pay their valued employees better than average salaries (and in other ways treat them better than average) in order to retain them, because they know those people are making them money.

The stereotypical fatcat businessmen who rips off his employees is both shortsighted and not nearly as wealthy as the guy who treats his employees well.

i agree about the competitive salaries since logically it makes sense, but i rarely see it in action.

In economics it is called an Efficiency Wage
since it saves the person or business some
very real costs associated with turnover:

Running an add
Reviewing resumes
Conducting interviews
Background checks
HR paperwork
Training

Much better to find the right person and
pay/treat him or her well so they stay,
enjoy their job, get better at it, etc.

in know. i wish more employers had the mindset of efficient economists in order for it to be actually mutually beneficial.

unfortunately, large companies can move their manufacturing, and other departments to foreign countries. So called "outsourcing". The company pays the cheap labor basically nothing by american standards, our government or special interests in our government negotiate low wages/benefits, lesser health,safety and environmental regulations to further cut costs. There is less tax revenue in the US from salaries, and profits are made by a few already wealthy individuals...

pays the cheap labor basically
nothing by american standards

I do not have time at the moment
to give explanation of all the good
and bad sides of global trade...

However, I do want to address this
ever mistaken conclusion above.
The salary a worker is paid relative
to an American is pointless because
the worker buys most of their items
domestically/locally.

Example: In 2000 I visited Vietnam
in a working capacity. Back home I
was a poor grad student who did not
have a running car and cleaned an
office and some toliets for money.
But there I was rich, $1 = 14,000 Dong
and for $20 I got a hair cut, manicure,
plate of fruit, cup of tea, and a great
one hour massage.


Also, many times in those countries
the jobs we think suck are better than
next best alternative.

Example: your sister can sew shoes
for Nike and make good money or
be a prostitute and make less.

But which one is the better public service?

Small companies can do it too, as can individuals...


I'm not entirely sure on this, but I think that income taxes from low- and middle-class workers make up only a tiny portion of total revenue. If I'm right about that, decreases here would hardly cause a hiccup in the federal budget. The overwhelming majority of income taxes come from the top 10% of incomes (the 90/10 rule). The top-paying jobs are typically not the jobs being outsourced, though there are a few exceptions.


Actually, the cut costs often end up being passed on to the consumer. The companies cut costs so they can lower their prices and compete more effectively in the marketplace.

Besides, any profits the companies earn through the cutting of costs will end up getting taxed through corporate income tax anyway.

You missed my point, the wages may be good for that particular country.The comparison is not pointless, wages are dramatically lower comparatively. They take advantage of cheap labor, moving manufacturing jobs overseas reducing what had previosly been decent paying jobs in this country.

It is largely myth that the saving are passed on to the consumer. If you look at companies that have recently moved production overseas, prices remain stable or go up. One small example is K2 skis. About seven years ago they moved all the production to China. Prices have climbed as they had before, despite lowered production costs.

Here's an essay on who pays what in taxes
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

It looks like you are right that the tax loss would be negligable, but the 90/10 rule isn't accurate.
Also Bush passed a law giving tax breaks to companies outsourcing in 2004.

Huh?

I'm pretty sure I must have missed the part of American Government where the president makes laws. I was fairly certain that was done by Congress?

Fine, you want to deal in symmantics?
Bush and his team proposed a law with a tax break for companies that move jobs offshore. The republican controlled congress at the time, I'm sure many democrats voted for it as well,voted for it, and Bush signed it into law.

Happy?