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You always hear of some jumps being more difficult than others. And sometimes the more difficult jumps, say the Swiss Valley, are jumped by people that really dont have the experience to jump them.

Has anyone ever thought of giving jumps a grade like in climbing with the decimal system. Ya know, it keeps low experienced rock climbers away from 5.12's, 13's etc could it do the same for BASE?

I looked around the forum, couldnt find anything, i'm sure someone will wizz up an old thread. Either way, I think its an idea to explore.

he he, this is actually on my todo list... (coming up with a good way to rate technicality of jumps)

I was going to publish it and make millions!!

I think that is far too specific, there are to many variables for a BASE jump for a one designation rating. for the last few years I have a 4 point, 4 or 5 section rating system for jumps I do, and how i describe them to others. like the american ski run designatinos



All have a
Green, Blue, Black, or double black.


sections:
-Exit access safety: (climb, gear up area, etc)
-Exit point safety factor: (easy exit? sloping exit? crumbling exit? platform?)
-Flyability/opening factor (slider down- overhung? gnarly wall? tracking wingsuit- is there a ledge at 8 seconds? can you fly out of the gully?)
-Landing area/approach: (wide open field? boulder strewn talus?)
-Bust Factor (most B's are black diamond, most NP jumps double black, legal jumps- perrine bridge, green)

SO-
Perrine would be green, green, green, green, green.
Tombstone :blue, blue, blue, green, green.
Royal Gorge at the games : green, green, blue, black, green
Building in Denver: green, green, blue, blue, blue, double black
the Valley shnoz:blue, blue, blue, blue, double black

so are we gonna use numbers and if so where do we start? does it get separated if you have to use a wingsuit like bouldering is separated?

There's no way to rate them. What baseline do you use? Assuming we have the exact same experience level, what is an easy jump for you may be a difficult jump for me.

List of some of things that make a difference:
Canopy control skills
Athletic ability
Reflexes
Currency
Gear knowledge
Rigging ability
Proper gear usage (not the same as rigging ability)
Type of gear
choice of wingload
Size of jumper and canopy
Conditions people are willing to jump in
Ability to take specific delays
Luck
... and more.

Same thing happens in the climbing world... I've been on climbs where it's (for example) rated a 5.10 and the guys I head out there with says it's really more like a 5.12

it's all about multiple opinions and averaging based on a set of qualifiers that are as static as possible.

another example, say one of the qualifiers is sheerness: instead of classifying as underhung/sheer/overhung you would use angles 10-20 degrees = X, 0-10 = X, etc... etc...

Hookitt is right. One object may be supposedly less technical, yet one solid jumper eats it some how. Is this because he had an “Easy rating” relax him too much? You can never go into a base jump with an "Easy BASE jump" mentality. Obviously some objects are more technical than others and people need to calculate that somehow to see if the object is in their limits. The rating system would be good if jumpers did not let ratings relax them too much. Not to say that all of you would do that. I like the idea though. Just gotta remember a BASE jump is never a walk in the park. Need stay aware and be smart.

     that premise would invalidate any difficulty rating system for climbing/stamp collecting/chess/skiing. thats why i think the greens on the mountain that terrified me 4 years ago now seem relaxing.

to calvin: so do you give a jump an average because i think the rating system should make it simpler to communicate the difficulty?
While some parts of a jump are easy if the landing is double black its probably still a double black, maybe just black. just like if you climb 5.11 the crux is 5.12 and the rest of the route is 5.10 you still aren't gonna find yourself at the top.

I definitely hear you on the arguments you make. However, like what was kind of brought up in the other posts, all of these things are present in climbing

For example:

Canopy control skills
Athletic ability: Climbers have wildly differing athletic abilities but still adhere to a relatively universal system
Reflexes: Same as climbers, some are quick, some are slow, when you're belaying someone and they take a fall, the speed in which you react all effects whether that person is injured, killed or ok
Currency: Some climbers climb everyday, some climb twice a year and one of those is El Cap
Gear knowledge: Some climbers started climbing last month, some started 40 years ago and have learned the tools of the trade
Rigging ability: Some climbers can make a clove hitch with one hand on a multipitch lead on a 5.10 while others couldnt tie a bowline to save their life
Proper gear usage (not the same as rigging ability): Climbers make sure they double back or they pay! Always back their knots!
Type of gear: Petzl? Black Diamond, jumar, ascender?
choice of wingloadL 9 mil rope or 11.5? Static or dynamic?
Size of jumper and canopy: If I take a fall on a 9 mil static line, whats gonna happen, what about a dynamic?
Conditions people are willing to jump in: Its been raining all week and the sun hasnt come out once to dry these rocks, do we climb, or not?
Ability to take specific delays: Ability to climb the route
Luck

All i'm saying is that a 5.10 is a 5.10. Some climbers can climb it with easy, others maybe never will. Either way its a universal system that measures progress and skill.

Also I definitely agree on the going into a jumped 'relaxed.' But part of the education should be that even though the Perrine might be technically less challenging than the Troll Wall, anybody can die on any jump. Just like you can be bouldering. You can be 20 feet up on a V3, slip and die just as likely as you can be 20 feet up on a V12, slip and die.

yes, sorry i did not add that.

in random conversation with another jumper, you would say, without giving too much detail, that the perrine bridge is a bunny hill/ green, tombstone is a green, most antennas are greens, building is a blue/black, royal gorge is a blue/black, P.P. is a double black, etc. but then the rating system can be further explained if more is needed.

I i was to take an out of towner to something and the wanted a green, I would bring them to a local A with wide open fields and minimal bust factor. (green)

if someone asks about a local NP exit I would describe it as double black.

As professional rockclimber and a dorky BASE jumper, I'll say this. The Yosemite decimal system is not nearly as good as the British Rating System for BASE. The Brits (in regards to rockcclimbing) take into consideration the difficulty AND the danger factor into the rating of a climb in the same double/grade. It is a little hard to get used to if yer' flippin' Yank, but it would suit BASE way more than the YDS. The English got it going on with ratings. Maybe someone could clicky a definition of both climbing rating systems. Cool topic.

its wikipedia, but i gotcha dawg

http://en.wikipedia.org/...e_(climbing)#British

Climbers still climb above their experience level so jumpers will probably still jump above their experience level. The difference is that it's harder to climb up something than jump off something and you can climb something (above your experience level), fail, and survive but once you jump something, you can not fail ...

agreed. that is why this system does not really have a point, every jump will always be described with detail, there probably will never be a book on BASE jumps in a specific area, save maybe moab and European cliffs.

Harding Slot or Incredible Hand Crack?

Oh hell yea, this system looks ssssooooooooo much easier!!


So, would you consider the epic Stash Bag Rescue of Little Colorado to be Hard Very Difficult, Super Duper Hard Very Difficult, or just plain Ultra Manly Hardcore?

For real, do ya' really think the Harding Slot is 10b. Astroman is a cakewalk except for this pitch.....I cried my eyes out......really.

good stuff, i think cuz there aren't gonna be books written up simpler would be better.

i'm gonna go ahead and inflate the rating of the jumps I do, just like the boulder problems i make up.

I can flick a double black diamond exit and black diamond landing all day long at the gym

The crux with BASE and paragliding is the lack of physical component...if the mind is willing the body will follow...plus it looks easy when you watch the well trained...sports like climbing,skiing,surfing etc it is very clear to your ego that you better start training to match mind and body if you want to play the game.You can not fake your way up a 5.13 or ski a 50 degree slope but you sure can huck yourself of something if your mind is willing...People should just do a little more soul searching and be truthful about their abilities or spend more time jumping alone to keep the ego in check...always safety in numbers(fooled safety)...pointless rant i guess...some people get it others will not ...such is life...even when you get it death happens...lets not take ourselves to serious none of us are permanent...live the dream...but be humble and cautious...whoever lives the longest with no regret and has the most fun wins!
BASE needs no rating system just humility....plus rating will just add to bragging rights... so failing the IQ test will continue just chasing numbers.

Thanks Gary Begley
www.garybegleysports.com

well said.

and i agree, thats why I said that rating jumps is not really pointless, just kinda a bad idea and impossible to get all the variables in play. its not really a difficulty rating, just a rating on how lucky you have to be to fake it.

Hey There,

Talk about cOLORS.

gO to San Fransisco/haight asbury/hang out and talk, that "STUFF" is sTILL around...........

Thank You,

Gerry



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