Basejumper.com - archive

So I have been skydiving for 14+ years, been around BASE for 8 (give or take) with my friends but FINALLY took the leap and made my first BASE jump this year, I am now in the double digits.

With all the camaraderie and love that I have for this sport I can't believe that a dealer and FJC instructor would knowingly sell (read undercut) other dealers on new gear and then have their own FJC business stitched onto the container without telling the buyer that he was doing it!?!?!?

Is this true? Have any of you heard about this in Twin Falls? What happened to taking care of each other and the "brotherhood" that exists in skydiving/BASE jumping?

If it is true it makes me sad to see the direction that this sport is going.

Who?

I was told it was Tom Aiello that sold the gear for less than retail but failed to tell the buyers that he was going to have the container stitched with Snake River BASE Academy all over it. I saw a picture....they are nice looking rigs except for all the free advertisement.

I am just curious if there are others out there? I almost contacted TA about buying a new rig (I purchased a used rig already but I was considering buying another) but if he has done this to more than one BASE jumper I can't in good faith use him to purchase a new BASE container/chute.

Maybe Tom can give his side of the incident?

I think that would be only fair. I am not trying to accuse or cause an argument on here... I am only stating what I have heard from friends. I would appreciate both sides of the story because I am sure there are about 2-3 sides to this.

You know that manufacturers who run FJCs give discount on gear to their students ? How is the situation you are describing different ?

The people that bought the gear are experienced jumpers who thought they were getting a deal. They weren't students of a FJC...or students of a manufacturer who offers a FJC. They are just jumpers who thought they were getting a deal on a new rig but weren't told that part of that deal was having a rig advertising for someone.

What I was told is that the rigs had little customizing options (if none) available and that's why they were being sold for a discounted price. The buyers were never told that it would have SRBA logo (bridge and stick figure) stitched all over the container.

I'm sure said gear manufacturer will handle any impropriety, and dumbass newbies should be more prudent in their purchases. Saw this on BLiNC and thought the same thing...

Who the fuck cares. I can think of about 1000 more pressing issues to the sport than whining some more about Aiello.

If you don't want advertising on your rig...fucking pay full price. Cheap bitches. Consider it a tip to the manufacturer...all of whom we know.

And if you're all up in arms about a lot of his methods, be it teaching or selling gear...and I have some issues as well...nut up and start taking on newbies yourself. Just shut the fuck up with the whining already.

Act...don't bitch.
[/throat punch]

Edit - not directed at you Mike, just a general statement. Most of those whining are friends of mine.

Now go catch some corningware with your face or something.

It was a 2" thick pizza stone for the oven....not corningware. Get yer facts straight marine! 14 years.....14 years of falling and my first injury comes from bakeware at a DZ....who'd have ever thunk it!

two things.
1. are you blowing it out of proportion? i've seen rigs as you're describing; i wouldn't call a couple embroideries "all over it".

2. where is this so called picture you're describing? while i'm stealing from a great rock band here..."show me, don't tell me!" points for naming the song and band.

well said!

there is NO single, authoritative source in BASE. differing instructors, manufacturers, participants, etc. will have differing opinions. it is a simple fact that I appreciate. I get to choose the thinking I like best, for me. (heck, I just re-read a bunch of posts on static lining...)

everyone must balance risk vs reward for themselves.

I also enjoy being able to pick up a phone and call the manufacturer. it is real easy to talk to the head guy (or Marta ).

researching gear. researching a jump site. researching this website. all are basic skills. the whining indicates the topic is apparently important to that person, but they failed to conduct solid research.

Rush?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_76PSn8iFVs

I'll get you a picture once I figure out how to get it from my phone to the internet.

Rush...show don't tell is the band/song title. PAAAAHHHLLLLEASE knee grow...give me something tougher than that!

I think Tom Asshole is a douchbag!

Mike, we’ve never met. In fact, until today I’d never heard your name. I’m a little confused as to why you’d want to start throwing around this kind of story about me. If you’d care to talk it over, I’ve PM’d you my phone number.


I’ve heard this story repeated a number of times, both publicly and privately. It is not true. I use a number of sales tactics to sell gear. Among other things;

(a) I give loaner rigs to people who have ordered gear, so they have something to jump in the meantime
(b) I credit any rental fees paid to me (for FJC or Bridge Day rental) toward the cost of gear
(c) I do not charge shipping on gear I sell
(d) I take used gear in trade
(e) I often do not require a deposit on the gear (even though I have to make a deposit with the manufacturer to get the gear in production)
(f) I sometimes sell gear on credit, letting people pay me over time

Does this constitute unfair competition? I don’t think so, but apparently some people think that it does--and are so put out about it that they are inventing lies about me and spreading them around.

The gear that Mike saw was part of a large order of student, rental and demo gear that has my logos on it. I have sold some of those rigs to various jumpers, all of whom were aware of the condition, appearance and color patterns of the rigs when they purchased them from me.

I hate these posts.

First, I'm supposed to get all nasty because of the personal attack.

Second, learn how to spell if you want to insult well! it is douche, not douch. (at least per this website.)

I actually enjoy creative slamming. bad spelling just looks sloppy!

Because a few that I know of aren't his students.

Not all were aware, sir.

I have to agree here... Tom, I have heard (personally) from at least one jumper who ordered a rig from you that had no idea it was going to be an advertising billboard for SNBA.

I am seeking the truth, that's all, nothing more. It shouldn't be this difficult or cause this much strife to just get an honest answer to one simple question.

I didn't ask about shipping charges, payment plans, loans on credit, borrowing rigs out, etc.....

On those specific rigs:

1) No one was asked to purchase those specific rigs. They were offered as an option.

2) No one was asked for any money until after they had seen the rigs. If they didn't want a rig with my logo on it, that was fine--we ordered them one in their colors.


On the specific person you talked to:

1) I never asked for any money from him at all--the rig was sold on credit, so I was fronting the cost for it.

2) When he told me he didn't like the logos, I told him that was no problem, and we could easily order him a custom rig built to his specifications. He declined this offer, telling me that he didn't want to wait for gear to be built.

3) He has not yet returned my gear, and still owes me well over $2000 if he wishes to keep it. Nonetheless, he continues to jump my gear, despite my request that he return it, and despite telling me on two separate occasions that he had already shipped the gear back to me.

fuckin A. sell me a new setup with a troll in it, you could stitch a giant pink dildo on it and put gay pride on it, and id still buy the motherfucker for cheap, as long as it keeps me alive. i dont plan on posing for any pics with my smiley face.

i guess im off topic

OK....fair enough. I'll take your word for it and leave it at that.

One last thing Tom. I got your PM with your phone number requesting that I call you. I am going to decline. I would appreciate it if you would not have your friends phone my friends and abuse friendships to gain my telephone number (like you did about 2 hours ago) and call me. If I wanted you (or anyone else to have my phone number) I'd give it to you. I listened to your message on my voicemail but I am going to decline the offer to call you back. Like I stated, I keep a low profile, the internet/forum boards/email is more than you ever really needed to contact me. Making phone calls to gain my cell phone number to discuss a public forum on here really is uncalled for. In fact that's probably the most childish and GAY action I have ever seen taken on this or any other forum.

Please lose my number and don't call me again. If I need to reach you for ANY reason I'll email you personally through your SRBA email address. Please ask the gal that you rent classroom space from in Twin Falls to also lose my number. I have better people to associate with in my life than those that abuse friendships, especially in this small and close-knit of a BASE community.

I was down with an injury for most of last winter and probably saw most the new gear Tom had ordered for people come in. I don't recall any logos, other than OEM, on any of the gear. If there is somebody out there with a container with SRBA all over it, they probably ordered it that way. And as influences and opinions usually run in this sport, the person probably changed the way they felt towards Tom. And decided to create some BS story. Don't believe everything you hear. Especially in BASE.

you are one big douche bag...yes I spelled it right.

you come on a public forum, spewing shit about another jumper in the community whom you have never meet in your life. Turns out he is the bigger man, calls you to talk about it like a man. As it turns out your some fuck'n pussy with a key board.

You tell him that its uncalled for on a public forum. Who is the fuck face flyingmike who brought this up in the first place. YOU??

Honestly...stay at the DramaZOne(DZ) its assholes like you as to why i'd rather BASE than be at the DZ
Whine, cry, bitch and moan.

why don't you cry to mirage, voodoo, wings, ect.. for them putting their logo on their shit.

crying about abusing friendships and shit. You need a tissue mike for the drip coming from your vagine?

DramaZOne DB you are.

I think this is just hilarious. You are a tough guy on the Internet (aren't we all?) but then when it got real you got all huffy. You = PWNED.

I don't share your definitions of "abuse" and "childish."

You posted some accusations about me on the internet without attempting to talk with me directly about them.

I felt that the adult response would be to call you and talk directly to sort out the misunderstanding. I asked a friend for your number, and she got back to me with it. Neither she nor I mis-represented why I wanted it.

ive personally got better things to do with my time. like jack off to online donkey shows. kinky kelly. u can fuck kelly for 500 bux after the show.

dude, if you think about it, it's like anything else. you've heard...not experienced. if it's not first hand, it's usually bullshit. look, i haven't known tom for a bunch of years like most of these folks, but i do know him. when i was still a very new jumper, tom (even having a broken foot), took a couple hours to show me and my buddy some unpacked jumps. have you ever, out of the goodness of your heart, helped people you've never met before?

you said yourself, you've never met him, hell, you've never even talked to him. bro, before you go trashing people, you should figure out who you're talking about. me on the other hand, am a douche bag. that said, i will help friends and other jumpers out...so i'm not a fucking douche bag!

[quote) I use a number of sales tactics to sell gear. Among other things;

(a) I give loaner rigs to people who have ordered gear, so they have something to jump in the meantime
(b) I credit any rental fees paid to me (for FJC or Bridge Day rental) toward the cost of gear
(c) I do not charge shipping on gear I sell
(d) I take used gear in trade
(e) I often do not require a deposit on the gear (even though I have to make a deposit with the manufacturer to get the gear in production)
(f) I sometimes sell gear on credit, letting people pay me over time
.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Tom,
You forgot to mention that you have taken gear in on consignment. From what I hear and from the money that was sent to me you made good and fair deals to both the seller and buyer -and- made sure the gear was "right" for the buyer.

best,
jon

Dude,

Knowing the source, it's hard to be sympathetic. I wouldn't loan that fucker a screaming case of the clap. And I like the kid!

He Karnowskied off a building he shouldn't have been jumping anyway - so at least your shit ain't getting jumped.

I stand behind EVERYTHING ParaFrog and Seldom Seen Mark has said. I might not always agree with TA, But fuck off and go jump!

OH SHIT!!! I just looked at my skydiving rig...it has MIRAGE WRITTEN ON IT!!! I CANT BELIEVE IT...I WANT MY MONEY BACK NOOOWWWW!!!

wait a sec...

my base rig is laying on the floor too...

Oh..

My..

God..

it has the Apex logo on it, what is this world coming to? Sellers putting logos on the gear they manufacture???

i'm going into the corner of my room and assuming the fetal until somebody comes and breast feeds me

fuck me. tightly. tom aeillo is a damn good person that went out of his way to help me experience my first bridge jumps and i still thank him to this day.

why is everyone tripping on gear? i just watched superterminal today and i almost jacked off to it.
.
cant we all just get along?

haha...i like funny thread like this, pure entertainment

Who gives a flying fuck flying Mike? YOu give us mikes a bad name. Tom Aiello is my bud. You're my boy blue...

let me say this agin... I am NOT ripping on Tom. I never even post here. I have heard rumors in the BASE community about some shady dealings in gear from Tom. I asked a question, I didn't accuse. I merely asked if what I had heard was true or not from the source (who had purchased a rig from Tom). That is all.

I was highly pissed when I get a phone call from Tom, then another from a friend who is upset that his trust was abused when he gave my number out. I thought that's what forums and PM's are for? If I wanted Tom to have my number I'd give it to him (like the clap as Para-Frog stated).

I asked a question...plain and simple. I wanted to know if the info I was getting was legit or not.

As for logos from manufacturers, we all know our gear has their logos. If we don't want the logos we have to pay extra.....imagine you just ordered a new rig and it shows up with NASCAR or some other shit stitched all over it...and you are told "well that's what you get for a discount". You can't tell me you'd be ok with that too?

I asked a question, plain and simple. Did/did not Tom sell rigs for cheaper than retail without telling the buyer they would be advertising his FJC all over their container? How is that SO inflammatory? It's not spewing forth a rip on Tom, hell I don't give a rats ass what Tom does with his business or FJC. All I wanted to know was if I ordered gear from him was I going to get EXACTELY what I had paid for, nothing more and nothing less.

I suggest a few of you go stuff your mangina's with some kotex...it's starting to hemorrhage and prolapse.

god, i feel ya man. i hate it when people whose credibility i questioned on a public forum call me to clarify

...they could be cRaZyyyy

Or they could write me instead of phoning a friend who phones another friend to get my number so he can call me at home to "talk" because his feelings are hurt. I asked a question and he couldn't even answer that in a PM.... I don't have time to sit and talk. It was a pretty simple and straight-forward question. If any man feels the need to go to those extremes he really has some issues. A simple answer on a forum would have sufficed....but now it gets drug out into this.

what are you 12 years old mike. you fuck'n douche bag.

you cry more then anyone i know.

being a MAN is going face to face, or at least call someone and talk with them...going to a internet forum and talking shit... Being a pussy is going on the internet to a public forum to someone you have never met.

I've pissed off some people at some point in my life..and everytime they came to my face and dealt with it and vice versa.

You could have just PM'd Tom and asked him you asshole.

go back to the DZ....your more suited there.

Im sure there are plenty of people you and cry to there.

what a douche!

Usually when a person can't articulate thoughts it's because of a lack of education. To fill in the gaps that person feels a need to use profanity. Is that the case? I don't remember using profanity to instigate a forums riot. I asked a question. I didn't accuse, call names, or bad mouth. I simply asked if the rumors were true.

Next time I hear a rumor I'll just say "fuck it dude, lets go bowling" rather than ask around to find out if it's true or not and throw caution to the wind....cause that's what we do right?

and the pot calls the kettle black

Eh Brah! he no have problem wit me. I didn't come here to slam him. I chimmed in.

And your right mike. Please stick to the Drop Zone and jumping from airplanes. I think that gene pool needs you more. And they would appreciate you soo much more.

Im soo sorry if my name calling hurt your feelings mike. I realize that your sensitive and if you would like you talk about it you can PM me your #.

If ever I have a question for you I would hope your avalible for me to call you on the phone and talk about it. OK.

And you can do the same with me.

Thank you Mike.

People who are educated dont make ignorant arguments like you dont have time to sit and talk, but you have time to write 11 posts.

ill tell you who makes time for everyone who wants base help is Tom. you can call him about any question, he will take time to answer it and help. He give HIS free time that is precious to give back to others. He gives (loses) his time and money to new jumpers for two weeks a year for free that no one else is doing. while u cant make 5 minutes to talk to him like a man about your question. Maybe you should take the 260' black jack out of your eye (or your friends), before you take the 28" pilot chute out of his..

So the advice you gave out over on Blinc doesn't fall into that category??

OMG, what a pussy move... Are you really a basejumper?

I've never met Tom A but this is what I (me) actually know... When I first got into this game he spent a lot of time sending me advice. When I came up against something, he helped. No benefits to him whatsoever. If I need to rely on someone, I can rely on Tom.

That's what I actually know, not what I've heard!

Your third party comments are not appreciated.

John (Kenya)

Sounds like FlyingMike should have simply called or PM'd Tom before pointing fingers on this forum.

Yeah, I know most of you already said all
of this kind of stuff but I just got on and
want to have some douche-bag fun too
_________________________________

The poster being a long time skydiver and
since I am more experienced with skydiving
my gear examples below should help.

Couple weekends ago I was at the hog-flop
in Palatka and saw a guy with "Mirage" on
the back of 1 leg strap.

He said, "Yeah, I fucked up, Mirage now has
a thing that you have to remove their logo by
clicking some interface when ordering and I
accidently only did it on one side".

When I bought my last 2 mirage rigs I HAD to
get Mirage stitched on the yoke so since the
rig is black I got the text in black.


It is very common in both sports for different
dealers to offer different prices and policies!


Lastly, regarding calling people and gayness?

Hmm, well back in my college days chicks who
saw me Bartending, DJing, or Bouncing would
sometimes get my number from a girlfriend,
call me, and then come over and fuck me.

SO does that make them lesbians?

Yea, bowling is probably your best option.

Really dude, what were you thinking? Your first post on the forums was to call out and publicly question the integrity of a well know person here in an inflammatory way?

And your knowledge of the issue was all based on nothing more than a "rumor" your heard.....from a friend.....who bought BASE gear.....and paid in full.....without first talking to the seller and getting pictures of the gear.....and understanding what he is buying??

And why didn't your friend handle this since it was his rig and he was the one unhappy with it?

And why didn't you handle it like an adult and contact the seller personally if you were so concerned?

And why didn't you just log off and go bowling instead of making stupid posts in the first place?

Well, clearly you DO believe it or you wouldn't have posted this excited and accusatory post, right?

Let me rephrase your original post for you calmly and politely:


And now I'll answer you politely:

I bought one of these rigs. I was in Twin taking my second course from Tom when he was picking out the colors and placing the order. Tom told us from the outset that we would have no choice in colors, options, logos, etc if we wanted to place our order with his student gear, as it was all going to be built the same. The biggest compensation for that was that every person ordering gear that did not already have gear was able to take Tom's rental gear free of charge and jump it until the new rigs arrived.

When it came in, we were given an opportunity to look at it, try it on, hook it up and pack it, whatever. Tom never asked for money until we were satisifed. Heck, I had four jumps on mine before I got around to paying him for it. Do I feel taken advantage of? Nope. I'm thrilled with my rig. My brother bought one as well. Also thrilled.

Are the logos pretty big? Yep. Any bigger than BASERIGS.COM? I don't think so. Am I confident that if I had said, "Christ, Tom, these logos are friggin' huge!" Tom would have let me use his rental gear until a new rig without the logos came in? Yep. Why am I so confident? Because I said "Tom, I wasn't expecting these BIG logos." Tom's reply "They're a little bigger than I thought they would be, too. Are you okay with them?" "Yep."
See how adults handle these things?

For future posting, you may consider using this process:
Ask a polite question
Get a polite answer
Don't piss all over your own feet doing it

no, that's not what we do. BASE jumping involves research. it should be quiet and subtle, especially on less-than-legal objects. you really don't want to go up to a building guard wearing a BASE t-shirt and ask him how difficult it is to get on the roof... not really the best way. especially if you tell them you heard a rumor that others had done it.

asking random people at the dz, or here, to confirm/deny rumors tends to spread them. it is NOT subtle or discreet. that is why this site offers PM's. they are personal and offer discreet communications.

And that is why I placed a ? at the end of that sentence....It wasn't a question, rather a bit of sarcasm BECAUSE IT'S WHAT WE DON'T DO.

that you failed to answer? (your keyboard is more efficient)

i would be more than ok. i shop at the thrift stores as is.


ill come sit on your face if you want some crimson king.

Nope..... I didn't rip on Tom in the advice I gave. I gave my opinion on who had the better FJC for someone to take. Chevy or Ford? Snickers or Almond Joy? Nike or Adidas? Johnny U or Aiello?

How is that ripping on Tom? I gave my opinion about which course to take. I based it entirely on seeing both FJC courses at the bridge. I did not say why I didn't like his course or why I liked Johnny's.... I just suggested the one that I would have been more comfortable with and the one I'd recommend to my friends.

My mistake if that is ripping on Tom.

pussy or dick?

Whatever melts your butter Chris....whatever melts your butter! ;-)

Ah, I see what this is all about now. You made a pathetic attempt to impress your instructor by dissing Tom. Epic fail.

Not quite KidWicked.... I didn't take Johnny's course either but thanks for playing.

so having never tried toms course you can't say who's would be better. i mean, you're not coming from a place of knowledge. ali g once asked a couple chicks at a pro life rally if they'd ever had an abortion. they answered no. he had a good point when he told them "you should try something before you say it's bad".

respekt!

I think it would be cool to have condomdepot.com enbroidered on my rigs. Does that get me more ass? Does that improve my onheadings chance.? Who gives a flying fuck. My wife tells me to man up and call, stop texting like a pussy. She probably right. But I can't lick myself!!!
386 the warm and fuzzy velcro guy, who farts in skydivers general direction

dear flyingmike,

a) if you wanted to know what the truth was, why did you start a thread with this title (being not a question for truth, but a clear accusation despite your abundant use of question marks). your post implies that you are aware of PMs, so why did you not use that means of communicaiton? you'd look much less an insensitive and intellectually inferior person than you do now.

b) why does the guy who got "ripped off" does not complain here publicly? e.g. for not getting his money back? why do you have to take care of this matter? is he not man enough?

i do recommend that you return to your practice of never even posting here.

flummi

dude, get real. the rumor did not exist before YOU made it up.

and, to be quite honest - if you wanted to buy gear and had indeed heard a bad story about one particular dealer: why bother even investigating? just call the manufacturer, or call another dealer.

if you really wanted to know about someones reputation as a sales guy: why did you not, in private, ask some of his customers if they were happy and that person delivers what the promise?

despite your versatile use of the english language, it is not possible to disguise the blatant lack of logic and reason in your argumentation.

flummi

Flyingmike

I've got an idea, if the gear is servicable...jump it!

I don't think anyone will be checking your gear at an object for "Sxxxx Rxxxx BASE Axxxxx" and refuse to let you jump.

Get over it!

Above is the direct quote "copied and pasted" from Blinc. I dunno, maybe I'm just dense and slow.. But usually when one types in all caps they are over-emphasizing a point.

Its to bad you didn't take either course, I know for a fact both of them would have given you great knowledge about BASE ethics which is something you are lacking in. And just for the record, busting someones balls that has looked out for the majority of the people in this sport in one way or another isn't the smartest thing to do. A fellow jumper had a problem with me recently, he got my number from one of my closest jump buddies, called me, we discussed the situation, and are now planning to jump together soon. There are better ways to handle situations than to banter on the web about it. Be an adult, act like a BASE jumper, quit being an assclown and call Tom, settle this bullshit, and take your next pile of bullshit to dropzone.com.

First you say:

Then you say:

If you didnt give a fuck about TA's business, then why do you want to know anything about TA's business?

You should have answered the phone call... Like an adult male or something

While I have NEVER bought gear from that
shady character known as Tom A. I have
sold him gear, took his course, and sent
at least four of my friends to his course.

While Tom A. and I may have disagreed
about a few ideas --- me and ALL of my
buddies agree that we got every penny's
worth taking his course. It was organized,
comprehensive, and very informative!

As for Johnny Utah, he is cool and solid but
I have never personally studied or jumped [with] him.
However, a good friend of mine did & I actually
trust his pack job as much as mine if not more.


edited to clarify that GreenMachine enjoys his wife! -- wwarped

Yeah.... I guess you are all correct. I should have Pm'd but I didn't. I chose to ask in public and everyone gets their balls in a tizzy.

Maybe it's just me...but every person I've talked to down at the potato bridge doesn't exactly hold Tom in high regard...or maybe I am talking to the wrong people. There was a reason I avoided this board and dropzone.com...

Thank you all for reminding me why I avoided having anything that resembled a conversation on this message board. Maybe if you lived out here and heard the stories/rumors/whatever you want to call them you'd have a different opinion of why I was asking.

You may all go back to your little bubble now thinking that Tom is God's gift to BASE jumpers.

Hey Buddy,

Can you update your profile?
Just so we know how much
cred to put in your opinions.

I've locked this thread as you've found your answer. it probably will devolve into even more fierce bickering.


I can tell you that I'd be happy to listen to other opinions. I stated previously that NO ONE is a definitive authority on BASE.

Jimmy/Marta, Miles, Johnny, Tom, etc. all have run courses. they all are different. I bet we all can learn something if we took every course. the "best" one will depend on your personal preferences.

I've read a lot of Tom bashing. it tends to be quite emotional with little substance. most just lash out with accusations. sadly, Europeans (such as Flummi) can build a far better argument than them. but you're welcome to believe whatever.

feel free to PM me with facts and prove me wrong.

stay safe.
enjoy jumping.

the end of a thread.