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Couldnt find anything when searching for this. How many people here tape over the hole on the tubing? Thinking about doing it as I sit here. Any bad experiences?

you could cut the PVC tube off the PC, and slip it inside the line attatchment point for a floating internal handle, it negates the problem of taping and a few more.

I do. I used to jump without taping and say "have you ever heard of anyone that has actually got their finger stucked inside one of those handles?" until a really good friend of mine came to me and said "yeah, I'm one of those guys". My reply was "Where's the duct tape?" :)

I gaffer taped all mine.

actually got their finger stucked
inside one of those handles

Skydiving, yes, only took a second
to dislodge my finger and pitch but
on a BASE jump that is the last thing
one of us wants to deal with.

I second that.

it has happened to me in that "other" sport. it is NOT something I desire in BASE.

Yup, gaffers tape on any with an outer "tube" type handle. I find that my Morpheus PC's have a smaller tube than others and I don;t think I could jam my finger in them but I still taped them just for shits and giggles.

Dave

i think gaffers tape sucks for this.
after a while the glue tends to "bleed out".
for me the white medical tape works better.
don't know how you call this in english.
less glue, less weight, more good.

Hmmmm, my 38 and 36 still have the same tape I put on them in early 2004, have not experienced the problem you mention. That being said, I can see white med tape as being a good choice.

Calvin19 is spot on.
Don't have stuff on the outside of your PC for the bridle to hang upon.
Take care,
space

on WS jumps I really prefer the EXTERNAL handle. I have internal floating 38s, but I felt much better with external gaffer wrapped PVC on WS jumps.

on my LOC wingsuit jumps I still like the internal floater. the, comfort of an external handle does not outweigh the benefits of a clean snagless PC, IMHO.

I also had my tumb stuck inside my pilot chute skydiving!

Personally I would avoid doing this for wingsuit jumps. It has possibly attributed to one of the deployment problem recently.....

On a prodigy wingsuit jump with my 38" pilot chute in my BOC I reached back with lots of altitude and felt my thumb go into the PVC piping on my pilot chute. I had a mili second thought of shit and decided just to pitch with a flicking motion. It came off easily but needless to say there where 10 guys convinced to tape there handles that day. I've since plugged the inside with a piece of light weight foam from a pool noodle glued in place. I didn't like the thought of sticky duct tape wrapped around the handle.

plugged the inside with...foam from a pool noodle

Smart idea, thanks.

Can you post a picture of a floating handle Calvin?

I have heard of them in the past and i get the concept, still not seen one in use though. Anyone experienced any problems with floating handles? (Not WS jumps)

its kinda hard to take a picture of.

Asylum has been making them for years and make the best so i hear.

it seriously just a slice of PVC the normal size of a PC handle, floating inside the PC.
when packing the PC, you place the floating handle where an internal handle would go, and pack it. on deployment the handle floats around the PC and does not get snagged on anything like a bridal or thumb. its like having a handle to grab, but not having a handle to snag.

Cheers Calvin, i got ya.

this from wingsuit forum there is lot's good point in it here

I prefer to use fabric tape instead of plastic tape. If your fingers get wet or your handle, plastic tape will be more slippery.

Just my one cent thought...

Frank

I like the idea of a floating handle, does Apex or Gargoyle make this? how hard would it be to fabricate from a pc I already have? Anybody tried anything other than pvc...plastic golf ball maybe? Any mishaps?

if you read all the thread the I post it, there is part the they talk abut plastic golf ball there lot more easy to install on base pc (no kill line )

I cap the end of all my PVC handles. This one is a 38". I find the caps at work off of 7/16 DIN coax connectors and amps I use but you can find them around if you look. Stop and ask a tower crew if you pass one or look around the site after they leave, they get thrown off the towers a lot when installing antennas and amps on cell sites.

Does the attachment tape go through the open ends and is sewn down to the pilot chute or does it pass through a hole drilled in the side of the PVC and attach right in the center of the pilot chute?

That pilot chute has a higher bridle snag potential than a handle sewn flush to the pilot chute. I wouldn't use it. If it is sewn flush, take those caps off.

Capping the ends makes the handle heavier too.

I have to go to work, I'll finish this post later unless someone beats me to it.

TowerTopper, what brand pilot chute is that?

Pilot chutes can malfunction. It's hard to make it happen but they can. Adding a handle on the outside is already adding a potential problem. Handles are bad enough as it is so at least use properly built pilot chute.


In the diagram attached, look at the handle on the left. That attachment method allows less snag potential.

The handle to the right looks like the one you have. The potential for the bridle to wrap it is much higher.

Number 71 on the BASE fatality list was caused by a bridle wrapping a hackey handle. A hackey is much worse to use in BASE however the attachment is the same as the diagram to the right.

Remember that bridles are subject to whatever wind they're presented too. If the bridle escapes from the pilot chute prior to letting go of the handle, it will blow above you, often created a loop. This happens frequently however the pilot chute usually misses. When it doesn't miss, you either get a knot in the bridle, or the bridle wraps part of the PC.


Get rid of the caps if the handle is attached like the left diagram. If it's like the one to the right, stop using that pilot chute or remove the handle.


I'll find a link in the incident forum and edit this post to include it. <== If someone knows the link that includes a picture of the bridle knotted around the edge of a pilot chute, please link it.

I can't remember which Mfg I bought that one from (too much Diazepam in my life), I have only used it once down near Tampa, I don't normally climb high enough to be using a 38", I like 220'-350' normally using 48"-46" PC's no handles. The caps didn't weight it down any that I noticed at that kind of speed then, they weight almost nothing. Good to hear from you.

The only time I've had a PC snag was on a climb with NO HANDLE, and I think the slick ZP just allowed it to work out easy, I was climbing and it felt like I was being pulled backwards, I looked down and the PC was blowing through the tower (inside climb) lattice and luckily didn't pull my shrivel flap off, I keep up with changing Velcro on it, usually 30 jumps or so. If I can't pick-up the rig by the shrivel flap then I change the flap, the Velcro, or both. Also when I change Velcro I change both half's always. I make my own flaps too now, the first one I made I mis-measured it not allowing for the length of the flap it self and realize that at BD when they checked the length, it was just about 14" short, brain fart.

I did have a horseshoe mal once when I snagged the back of my rig or bridle on exit once and pulled a pin and it pulled the PC clear of the BOC on opening just as I reached for the PC, it opened with 360 riser twist flying away from the tower and I rear riser landed it pulling at the links jumping off a 450' FM tower.

I work on towers but don't seem to have good luck jumping them.

Edit--> Thanks for the heads up on the bridle wrap about #71, I missed that. I'll make a wall hanger out of it or mod it.

tower topper my 38 pc only have cap on it no handle,
what you can do is use a plastic golf ball on the inside secure with binding tape, same way as handle on the out side but only it is on the inside no snag

That sounds better than the floating handle (ball) to me, I'll never use a PC with any handles again unless skydiving, I just don't ever jump anything warranting anything that small. I'm still trying to remember which vendor sold me that one for sure, I have an good idea but I'm not going to say without knowing for sure, lessons learned from the past. Maybe they'll chime in, ya right.

Your profile says you have a baser. Did you get it from sonic? If people are purchasing gear from him, he needs to fix that assembly method.

Yes, one of 4 rigs I have, I play with it out at the DZ more than anything. Let's not turn this into another "Burn Sonic Forum". I did some trading for the 2 containers at BD last year. If you want to know more about it PM me. And I need to redo my profile, it's not current. EDIT-->Let me add this... Skydive with skydive gear, BASE with BASE gear!!!

I don't care who makes it. If he hasn't already, he needs to fix that assembly method. It's plain wrong for BASE.

People apparently buy his stuff so he should be beaten up about it. The info is out there, look at an Asylum rig and components. R&D is not hard (that's rip off and duplicate if you're wondering)

I misunderstood your question about the BASEr, I had that PC before I got that rig so not to mislead anyone. I was thinking about the floating handle some more while doing some rigging today. Have you ever heard of a Russian Pull-Out? Basically as you pull the PC you pull the pins before letting go of the PC, just a thought.

russian pull out?
hmmm... the downfalls of a pull out seem to outweght the benefits, in skydiving and even more so BASE jumping. more info?

Matt, don't get me started. You can't really compare skydiving to BASE when it comes to Pilot chutes. In BASE a pullout isn't such a good idea. In skydiving a good pull out is excellent unless you're doing wingsuit flying. Have someone who actually knows how they work, show you how to pack them, and why they’re packed that way. It’s very simple and very clean.

A premature pack opening ... the pilot chute just launches. Not so with a throw-out. Since this isn't a skydiving forum, that's all I'll say about the advantages.

Skydiving rig manufacturers keep trying to re-invent the wheel. I stole my handle design straight from a VooDoo. It was simple and secure. The handle isn't oversize like most other rigs. I've used that handle design for close to 4000 jumps with 0... yes absolutely 0 problems. My first 1000 jumps were on a throw out and I was happy to switch. When I'm falling feet to earth or doing flippy do freestyle things, or cartwheels or over unders, I'm much more content with a good pullout.

There are some very simple BOC designs that are excellent. The same goes for Pull-outs. Some are not. Most folks have no reference point so don't really know the difference.
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In BASE, A pull out could work in some circumstances but they'd be very few. The handle in itself is a hazzard in BASE. On top of all that, think about how much material you'd have to pull from behind you. You wouldn't be able to panic throw a pull out and get it away from you if you were unstable. Hand held jumps would be pretty annoying with a pullout as well

I'm ALWAYS making extra obsessive compulsively sure my pilot chute isn't going to catch on something and fall out of the BOC, Also it must stay put doing aerials so when I used to do them, the PC had to be JUST right. If a pull out made sense in BASE, I'd be using one. But it doesn't.

One of my 38s doesn't have a handle, and one of them does. The one with the handle is a soft tube. The attachment goes through the tube and it's pretty sleek.

If I really feel the need for a handle for the other one, I'll stuff one into it. My 34 has a handle. I've never considered not using a handle on that one. The ends aren’t taped but since it’s a good Idea, they will be by the time it gets used again.

TowerTopper, I've never heard of it being called a russian pull out. It sounds like an ordinary pullout no?

Hey man, I know this is not a skydiving
forum but I (like many others) no longer
visit dz.com unless I have something to
sell so could you please explain?

Feel free to PM or Email it if you'd prefer.

By the way, I am happy with my hackey
equipped PC for skydiving but love to
learn about different methods.

Thank you much sir!

Pull-out

A pull-out system has a pillow type handle fastened to the lower right-hand corner of the container. The handle is attached directly to a straight metallic pin via an 8-10" bridle line. This short bridle line passes through a grommet mounted at the base of the pilot chute. As the handle is pulled, the pin clears the closing loop and container grommet. The container is now open. The pilot chute is now extracted from the container as the handle is pulled laterally away from the body. The pilot chute rapidly inflates in the clear airstream next to the jumper because the handle is attached to the base of the pilot chute. The jumper vigorously throws the pilot chute to his side at arm's length. The pilot chute acts as a "pull from above", extends the bridle line as the jumper continues to fall away, and then extracts the bag from the container. The remainder of deployment is normal.
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the Russian Pull-Out the tower topper is talking abut is one rig I seen it one time it was just a another BOC except it has pillow type handle with velcro mate to boc pouch so it well not work it self out may be ?

Certainly. Let me gather some thoughts and write it down properly so it doesn't resemble magnetic refrigerator poetry

fyi, I never vigorously throw my pull-out system. Pull the handle out to arms length sideways and let go. Basically the same for a throw out but it's basically a toss. At terminal, the wind passing your body is the strength of a category 3 hurricane so a vigorous throw will have the same results as putting out in open air.

What you described as a russian pull-out is a throw out. You're making a pretty good guess but it's really just a throw out. There are plenty of methods to secure a handle with a throw out, that's one of them.

It's good that your thinking.