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Here's a question for any vertical rescue gurus after me and a couple mates were talking on the weekend.

Say someone has had an offheading and is hung up on a cliff, you have enough sections of climbing rope tied together that you can rap down to them and then reach the ground, but you will need to do at least one knot bypass in order to get them down. They may or may not be injured/conscious. The rock doesn't allow gear to be placed to do a multipitch rap so you've only got the single rope to descend on.

Does anyone know of a good way to do a knot bypass when you've the weight of two people hanging from the one belay device? What specific gear would you recommend (eg 5 bar rack vs a belay tube or something)? How would you attach the casualty to the rescuer?

The method I know for doing a bypass (for 1 person) involves lowering on to the belay device below the knot with a prussic and a mariner's knot, but this would be kind of dodgey with the weight of two people due to strength of a piece of 6mm cord and also just trying to release the mariner's knot under control with the extra weight.

Any ideas?

BJ

Check out a book called "ON ROPE" North American Vertical Rope Techniques. Or the HART Book (High Angle Rescue Techniques).
Remember to go set up a multi knot line and practice practice practice. . Try it with two peoples weight..... it's a totally different ballgame.

 
I've put some thought into this. I've never had to rap with an injured person but I've on ocation caried a haul bag and ropes, gear and other shit with me. At times it's added up to my own body weight. If you've got some short pig tailes of rope and use those to tie in at the ankers with a munter you can use them to lower out the dead weights from the ankers as you pass them. It's reall quick and easy. Useing two reppel devices helps with the weight. I generally don't use any thing specal. I'm normaly moveing slow enough and stoping long enough at ankers that I've never had much of a problem with heat. One of the easiest ways with pass a knot on the fly like that is to cheat. Leave a peace behind. Tie it all in to the top peace with one end of a double ended pig tail. Move the bottom peace under the knot. Tie it off with the other end. Set your self up with another repel under the knot. Lower it all off the top peace and now your hanging from the same system below the knot ready to continue down.

Lee

awesome book. best I have seen. its fairly difficult and involved with one person.


On some of the trips I have done, one of us is a pre-med EMT. he snipes a few neck braces whenever he gets a chance, so we always have those in the kit. good thing to have laying around. also, femur braces/ ready splint would be nice to keep in car. a post-crash femoral artery rupture would be end mission. dead.
as far as hanging victims go, not much more you can do once you get to them.

If you're concerned about 6mm prussiks failing, why not carry some 8mm cord instead, but as long as its a static load, would anybody expect either to fail? have at least two of them, and an etrier might be nice too. i've never used a "dog 'n tails" hitch but if i were concerned about releasing lines under tension, its something i'd practice and see if it would be helpful.

You could also take a look at Climbing Self Rescue: Improvising Solutions for Serious Situations by Andy Tyson and Molly Loomis. The book will give you a few different ways to handle a situation depending on the gear that you have, the condition of the patient, etc.

Later,
Eric

Gear makes it easier.. chest crowl and asenders. make life alot easier.. pulleys and using the power of your legs to get peoples weight off things also.

This is a little difficult to verbalize in writing, so I will try to make it minimally confusing. Also this assumes that you know what a Munter-mule is (a Munter-hitch with a Mule-hitch = load releasing hitch), how to rig it, and how to use it. Either of the books you mentioned will have instruction on the rigging, but ultimately it’s not a bad plan to take a Self Rescue Course if you are serious about this stuff. Any of the reputable guide services in the US, UK and EU should have 1 to 3 day courses on the subject either Standard or by arrangement.

There are several different ways this could be accomplished. This is just one example:

1. With a cordalette (6-8mm x 17-ish feet) use a “Munter-mule” to rig yourself and your victim to the rappel device you are descending on with slacked back-up or both ends of the cord fixed. Note: you are not attaching the Victim to yourself, rather you are attaching them directly to the device/system.
2. When you reach the knot (i.e., your rappel device is jammed against it), Rig your 2nd device just below the knot.
3. Connect yourself and your victim to the 2nd device (obviously), release the Munter-mule and use the now Munter-hitch to lower self onto the 2nd device. You need to measure the length of cord you use to rig yourself to the 1st device, such that you can reach back above the knot to retrieve your 1st device after it is unloaded.
4. Once you have retrieved (or left behind) your 1st device, continue rappelling. You will obviously want to retrieve your device if you need to pass multiple knots.

If at all possible try to be in possession of a rope that is long enough to reach the ground in a single strand. Depending of the situation, you may also be better off having a crew of skilled people lower the rescuer from the top. This way, they deal with the knot passing in a similar way with load release hitches (that they pre-rig before the lowering begins). This frees the rescuer to deal with the victim (first aid, man handle them, etc.).

To reiterate, the process described above is just one of many “improvised” self rescue tactics. Self-rescue isn’t always about having a specific plan (unless you frequent the site where the plan is potentially needed of course) but rather about having a bag of tricks to draw from when shit goes down…

Live long and prosper!

Tom Dancs

Cheers to everyone for the replies. I've got about 4 different ways of tackling this problem now, which includes a couple I hadn't even considered.

1 Casualty needs to be secured to the rescuer with two linked karabiners from the rescuers abseil loop to the casualty's harness. Casualty needs to be kept upright.

2 By-passing a knot with a casulty.

3 Abseil down to approx 3 meters above the knot and tie off.

4 Secure a tape sling above you by means of a prussik knot.

5 Lift the knot above you and secure to the tape prussik with a kababiner.

6 This takes the knot above you and now you have to transfer on to the decsend rope.

7 This can be achieved easily by using a spare abseil device.Attach the spare device to the new descend rope, tie it off, lower off on to the new rope.

8 If you only have the one abseil device, you will have to lower on to a prussik ( preferable a tape sling) , change your abseil device on to the new rope and lower on to it from the prussik.

9 Now you are free to abseil to the ground.

Safety Note.

When abseiling always wind a prussik loop 4 or 5 times around the control end of the ropes and secure to your leg loop with a karabine.

This prevents loosing control of the abseil, ( especially with the weight of two persons ) If you inadvertently let go or loose control of your speed, you can let go of the control rope and you will come to a safe stop.

Any questions e-mail me b_addison@hotmail.com

 
The most interesting part of this discusion is the chalange of trying to articulate what we're talking about.

Tom, question. I think I follow you and it's what I was trying to describe but I don't see how you retreave a peace from above the knot. Load is nolonger on the upper peace but it's now on the line through it. Are there any peaces that you can remove with that kind of weight on the line?

Lee

Or just have me and my team at every BASE jump you make......seems like a fair deal, eh?

It is my understanding that a double fisherman will pass thru a rescue 8. Ive never tried it. Any thoughts? It might not be a good idea with two peoples wight however.

 
I hadn't really thought about an old 8. Would a simple overhand knot be small enough to flip through the hole sence it's "smooth" on one side?

Lee