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The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
I just this morning received a PM from a French jumper who asked some thought provoking questions concerning the BASE number list. It may have been trolling and I started to dash off a quick but innocuous answer, but the more I wrote, the more it made me think about it, and maybe its food for open discussion.

The gist of it was, has the BASE number list ever been made public, will it in the future, and what will happen to that information in 850 years? (He actually put it that way).

I know I'll hear from those with no interest in the BASE numbers, who think they are passé, and who won't miss this chance to diss the very idea of them, but I want to hear some ideas I haven't heard before. My own opinion has never much changed, I think it should be kept private, and I take some amount of comfort in the fact the master BASE number list is safely tucked away under Joy Harrison's mattress . . .

Hi Pierre, (not his real name).

At first, at least for the first 200 BASE numbers or so, they where made public, at least inside the BASE community. They latest issued numbers were printed in various, but now defunct, BASE magazines, like Carl Boenish's own "BASE Magazine" and later in Phil Smith's "BASEline."

This was in the early to mid-1980s when we did a pretty good job of keeping those magazines in house and BASE, in general, out of the public eye. However, then as now, when applying for a BASE number you always have the option of requesting it be kept confidential. Your name would still appear on the master list, but with an asterisk next to it, meaning your name would never be publicly disclosed. This became more important in the 1990s as BASE picked up steam and most jumps were still illegal and clandestine. It was those people in delicate jobs like police officers, Gov't workers, military folks who needed that promise of confidentially. There are even a few on the list kept confidential because, "My wife would divorce me if she knew I BASE jumped."

There are also more than just a few names on the list that are fake like some of the login names here on the internet. That kind of paranoia, real or not, should be respected because who knows the original reason. Then there was the stigma attached to BASE in those early days that came from skydivers and DZOs that hated us for one reason or another, and sometimes disclosing you BASE jumped could mean losing friends and DZ jobs. And don't kid yourself. There are still those people out there. Ask Sangiro what he thinks of BASE jumpers and you'll get an earful. And sometimes it seems we are going out of our way to make more enemies than ever before.

You bring up a good point though, what happens in 850 years, will all this historical information be lost? I think not as long as the succession of people keeping the list stay true to its accepted intent. But that intent is fluid and could change over time. For instance in 850 years, unless they figure out a way to build an electric Otter, fixed object jumping may be the only form of parachuting left, BASE will be a more normal pursuit and it just won't matter anymore.

But, in the short term, who knows what may be happening in just 50 years. We may become such a "mommy may I" society that people "outside the norm" like us are lined up against walls and shot.

But there is also a more real current situation that still means it makes sense to keep the BASE list a secret. If you look twitchy at the main gate of Yosemite, or are just walking back to your car after an urban jump, do you want that ranger or cop with a para-suspicion pulling up the BASE number list on his computer and there's your name?

Suppose you're applying for a job and some recruiter Googles your name and up pops the BASE number list. It may mean nothing, but it may mean everything. Then there are the old and new holdouts who keep their BASE jumping completely and utterly to themselves or within a small tight knit crew. They may have applied for their BASE numbers with an expected idea it would not be widely, if at all, ever publicly disclosed. And a promise made is a promise kept . . .

Then there's a more esoteric aspect to it too. After you see your spouse naked a few thousand times most of the mystery is gone and sometimes some mysteries are worth preserving.

NickD Smile
BASE 194
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Re: [NickDG] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
I think the BASE numbers list should be kept private.

The information on there is only ever important to those who 'have' the numbers anyhow..


I've come across my fair share of those saying the whole idea is 'passe' , as you describe....even , dare I say it, considered 'en vogue' , to be a BASE jumper but not have applied BASE number.
I also respect those ,respected jumpers, who just decided, through no ill thought, that they didnt want /need to apply for a number....ie it wasnt something at all important to them.

For me it was something I wanted to do....but it never dictated my actions to get it.
A BASE number ...whethers its 1 , 100 , 1000 or 10,000 ...gives an indication of your 'achievement ' in the timeline of this discipline , and in my opinion 'IS' something to be proud of.
It also shows a nod of respect to those who have been before, that you are following in what they started.

Whether the number is high or low....be proud of it...its where you are in history....but theres no need for the list information to be made public..my opinion.

BASE 1158
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Re: [NickDG] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
BASE numbers has always been "passe"...,
Who cares if someone says they have number 1051 or 551....it`s just a number...like as if you stumble in a post office and draw a ticket.."you are now in 98 in line" ok,fine.good...
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Re: [johan420] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
I can respect that opinion and also disagree with it. And here's an example of why. Just recently the entire database for skydiving's SCR numbers was put online for the first time. These SCR awards, are much older than the BASE numbers and they are also sequentially numbered, but it's not the numbers that are so important. It's the names.

I really love the fact that I can look back to the 1970s, when I started skydiving, and see so many familiar names on that list. The same with the 1980s and so on. These are names I would have forgotten and each familiar one conjures up a story and a smile. Nowadays entering a skydiving formation 8th or later is no big deal but fortunately jumpers to this day still put in for this award.

Since just about every name is there on the SCR list, it's the closest thing we have to a true "who's who" of skydiving. And I know that anytime old-timers get together (in either BASE or skydiving) we spend an inordinate amount of time going, "What the fuck was that guy's name, you know the one who . . ." So in a way without the names written down somewhere these people would eventually cease to exist.

As for the actual BASE numbers themselves, I can somewhat agree with you. You can say the people who received, say, the first 100 or so BASE numbers where working without a net. The severe lack of BASE knowledge in those days may be hard imagine these days but makes it kind of remarkable that any of them survived it. And of course, in fact, more than a few didn't.

Even when I came along about a hundred BASE numbers later we still didn’t know all that much. We knew to use a longer bridle and larger pilot chute, but that was about it. I was jumping towers with my canopy still packed in a friggin deployment bag for Christ's sake. And don't be so sure our way of jumping today won't seem suicidal 50 years from now.

There's another cool thing about the BASE number list. It used to be that friends, and it still happens, tended to get their BASE numbers in clusters. You can look back at the names surrounding your own and there's your crew, and the overall list is populated with these little BASE Mafias.

I can also, almost at a glance, conjure up the state of the sport at any given time just by looking at a small block of ten or so names. I can see the gear we were using, who's sleeping with whose girlfriend, and who Mark Hewitt kicked the crap out of that year.

But, on the other hand, in order for any of the above to be important you must be interested somewhat in the history of this thing of ours (not to belabor the mob references.) Wink And while it may not interest you now, maybe it will twenty years from now. So in that case it's better to have a BASE number list and not care about it, than to suddenly care about and not have it at all.

However, I'm all for keeping up with the times so maybe the BASE award could use a little freshening up. When Carl Boenish in 1981 decided you'd get a BASE number only after making at least one jump in each object category it made sense to everyone. There needed to be some kind of standard and that one worked. But Carl, as far sighted as he was, didn't foresee everything that was to come. Maybe today the guy who makes a certain amount of jumps from the potato bridge, while never jumping any other object, deserves a BASE number too. Or the Euro guy who jumps only cliffs. Maybe so does the guy who's been to dozens of Bridge Days but never BASE jumps at any other time or place.

I never thought I would say anything like that. But the more we say the BASE numbers are passé the more the idea grows and it's possible they someday go completely by the wayside. But since every past and present BASE jumper, no matter their experience level, is a cog in the overall scheme of things it makes them all important. And some of them can go unrecorded simply because they won't do a tower because of the RF issues, or a building because they won't break the law. When I was keeping the BASE Fatality List I used to have a section on the bottom for BASE jumpers who died outside the sport. I did that because those people were important too. They all contributed in big and small ways to the sport sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse.

So, again it's not the numbers that count so much, it's the names . . .

Here's the SCR list if you want to look it over . . .
http://www.scr-awards.com/index.html

NickD Smile
BASE 194
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Re: [NickDG] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
NickDG wrote:
I know I'll hear from those with no interest in the BASE numbers, who think they are passé, and who won't miss this chance to diss the very idea of them

there are a vocal few out there that like to whine. everybody gets to follow their own muse, so why do they complain when others take a different course? (if it fails to impact others...)

instead of listening to what they say, I like watching what they do.

what are the successful equipment trends? some folks brag about their latest invention, but fail to convert many.

many said this site was doomed. it still appears to draw the most posts.

others claim the BASE numbers are passé. if they were right, why do so many still apply? (see Chart)

instead of just going about their business, they complain, troll, or just stir the pot. I'd prefer them spending energy creating something.
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Re: [NickDG] SKY & BASE Numbers
I agree, it is very cool how the numbers in
both great sports help to chronicle
the history and lineage.

I was jazzed to earn my D license w/ 200 jumps
right before it went up to 500 by doing 40 in a
week at Rantoul.

I also was proud when I got my Gold Wings.

Once in a while I go on a dive with some cool old
dude who has a low D number (like 3 digits) and
I appreciate how brave he was to start jumping
when he did and that he is still alive - It Rocks.

One day I will be happy to earn & apply for my BASE number.
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Re: [GreenMachine] SKY & BASE Numbers
>>Nowadays entering a skydiving formation 8th or later is no big deal but fortunately jumpers to this day still put in for this award.<<

>>>I hope the above is a joke. Crazy<<<

What I meant was in these days of mega-bigways, in the OVERALL scheme of things, doing an 8-way isn't the big deal it used to be. I couldn't count how many failed SCR loads I've been on but as the talent pool got better it has became a lot easier to put them together. Even though it will always be a big deal to a young jumper who first gets the award.

(Come on, did you seriously think I don't get that?)

I've also lost count of how many people I've helped achieve all those goals you listed plus their instructional ratings and BASE numbers so please don't be so quick to infer things . . .

NickD Smile
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Re: [NickDG] SKY & BASE Numbers
Mmmm, I am a base jumper, and without a base number for more then 10 years now. I will likely never apply for it as there is no real need.

The only reason why you get a number (in skydiving) is because there is an official body behind it. In most cases national bodies. International bodies mostly do it for PR, or € (sorry americans) reasons. That does not mean that Carl Boenish started with base numbers for this reasons, I can image he did so in his enthousiasm. Also, it is more american to be "register" in one way or another. It is mostly in the US that all those SCR, state records, POPS, handicapped, etc. etc. records start and thrive. BTW, just stating, no stigma to that.

The other argument is registration and being public. Registration: There are base jumpers now all over the world. most of them don't get a base number, or could not bother. So, majoritywise, getting a number is passé.
Being public. The moment you write something on the net in your real name about base, google will find it, with or without base number. So, if you got a secret, either don't write, or write under a false name. And, like Nick said, some people write / register under a Nickname.

Ronald
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Re: SKY & BASE Numbers
I don't keep a logbook and I don't know how many skydives or BASE jumps I have. But I'll always treasure my BASE number.

When I received my BASE number 13 years ago, there was no anti-BASE number sentiment and EVERYONE'S goal was to eventually get their BASE number. It's upsetting to see some of our European BASE friends putting down the very system that started our amazing sport. The BASE numbering system, while started in America, has always been offered to jumpers worldwide and it's an important part of our history.
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Re: [base428] SKY & BASE Numbers
For sure until the mid 90íes it was a goal for most jumpers! Back then it was BASE jumpers we where! But in Europe it have changed from BASE jumping to be a Mountain flying thing! We dont feel like BASE jumpers anymore. BASE jumping is something underground, dirty, illegal, and crazy!

Most places in Europe it is more normal mountain activity, and not that hardcore anymore than we see ski athletes do! A bit more impressive sometimes when soaring the ground, or mountain sides, but Loic changed that when he aired his flight one meter above the ground! Now most jumpers know it is twice as much jumpers who have completed BASE, but dont care about having their number!
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Re: [434] SKY & BASE Numbers
I got my GBA number last week.
I carry it with pride.
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Re: [Mikki_ZH] SKY & BASE Numbers
To quote Space when he encounters a European jumper who says he doesn't believe in the BASE numbers: "oh, so you don't have your building jump then?"
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Re: [Mikki_ZH] SKY & BASE Numbers
Congratulations! I wished everybody who finished all objects aimed for their number!
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Re: [460] SKY & BASE Numbers
I also have the "other" number (1068) but my GBA number is much cooler: 24A
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Re: [Mikki_ZH] SKY & BASE Numbers
You guys give out numbers in hex?
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Re: [Mikki_ZH] SKY & BASE Numbers
What is a GBA number? German?
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Re: [460] SKY & BASE Numbers
460 wrote:
What is a GBA number? German?

No, but most of the Germans I know would qualify for a GBA number... Smile
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Re: [Mikki_ZH] SKY & BASE Numbers
must be the "graubuendener" base number then... (or Glarus? or Geneva?)
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Re: [460] SKY & BASE Numbers
Well, they claim that they don't care, but the reality is that they feel embarrassed about applying for a 4-digit number. Wink

Martin Rosen of Team Bautasten could have had a 3-digit number, but was waaaay "too cool" to apply for it. But he will get his number soon, I will see to it. Cool

/Micke
BASE 268
Team Bautasten of Sweden
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Re: [460] SKY & BASE Numbers
yeah yeah yeah...and half of the guys with their cool number answer "uhm....one" when asked how many buildings they jumped.
strange how some people cannot understand how you just don't care about numbers /being numbered.
and then even jump alone, at night with no camera.
there sure is some strange folk in this sport.

on the other hand i of course too framed my gba "pro" rating card. in solid gold.
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Re: [mr_prick] SKY & BASE Numbers
as far as I know, I have more base jumps alone (many without a cell phone) than anybody else, almost all illegal and at night.
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Re: [460] SKY & BASE Numbers
which shows how much generalisation sucks.
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Re: [Mikki_ZH] SKY & BASE Numbers
Mikki_ZH wrote:
I got my GBA number last week.
I carry it with pride.

Behind you all the wayWink
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Re: [NickDG] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
I know i'll be proud of mine when i get it. Until then i need to constantly keep myself in check and not let the allure of it put me in a situation i cant control.

I dont think it needs to be public as such, but available to those who know and understand what it is.

And now I'm off to jump an A.
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Re: [base428] SKY & BASE Numbers
In reply to:
The BASE numbering system, while started in America, has always been offered to jumpers worldwide and it's an important part of our history.

a good friend of mine often reminds me that the journey to the exit point is as much a part of BASE jumping as the jump itself. the goal of jumping off the four objects is an adventure and an acheivement few people will own. the book BASE 66 written by Jevto Dedijer is a perfect example ot this. hell yeah, in 850 years i'd love my ancestors to know what a crazy bitch their great x35 grandmother was.
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Re: [base428] SKY & BASE Numbers
base428 wrote:
The BASE numbering system, while started in America, has always been offered to jumpers worldwide and it's an important part of our history.

That is part of my point. You get your BASE number from the USBA, that is the US BASE association. You don't get if from the World BASE association.

I applaud the invention of the word BASE, and event the numbering system. That is to say, at the start. You don't need the number actually anymore to be a BASE jumper. Proof is there, more and more people don't apply. My final opinion is: BASE as a word is an important part of our history, the numbering system is not.

Ronald
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Re: [NickDG] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
In reply to:
The gist of it was, has the BASE number list ever been made public, will it in the future, and what will happen to that information in 850 years?
to make a quick answer for that question...in 850 year, i don`t think there will be people on this earth...we have exterminated us self and there will only exist some cockroach and other shitSly
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Re: [johan420] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
In reply to:
That is part of my point. You get your BASE number from the USBA, that is the US BASE association. You don't get if from the World BASE association.

I applaud the invention of the word BASE, and event the numbering system. That is to say, at the start

Why so bitter about it?
This is a attitude I see in alot of Europeans , but I struggle to understand the reason behind it.
Its not selling your soul to the Yanks...
Its merely a celebration of , what ever way you look at it, a remarkable achievement...making a fixed object jump off the 4 categories
Whether its an 'American' associatiion, a German one or one from Tibet...its not that important, but the US one is the longest standing ( as far as I know, please feel free to correct me) and so is seen by most as, dare I say it , a place to recognise your achievement in the annals of this discipline.

What does it mean to everyone else...very little - its just part of history, but at least it is part of history.

I completely understand not feeling you want to apply....but 'dissing it ? why ?..what harm does the US system, German system etc do ?
Its about as self indulgent as choosing what colour rig you want...it means everything and nothing to those that choose it.

If your crew/country consider it 'passe' to apply for a number...ok I understand and respect that
But having a go at those who do.......why?
What harm is it doing to you and BASE?
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Re: [Zoter] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
The intention of my post was not at all to be bitter. Far from that. Neither do I want to do US bashing. And of course, neither does the base numbering system do me any harm. Far from that. I have full understanding of people who still do apply for a number.

But, with the risk of upsetting - some - americans: failing to see that not everybody is eager to follow their example is typically american. That said in the stereotype sense. I am pretty sure americans have lots of stereotypes about europeans as well.

Ronald
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Re: [NickDG] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
Who give a hoot?[:)
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Re: [Ronald] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
From what I understand, BASE cropped up simultaneously in Scandanavia and the U.S., so any numbering system shouldn't be attributed to the U.S. The U.S. became the initial center of a lot of diverse jumping simply because of the access to numerous types of objects. In particular, tall buildings were easy to get, unlike the Europeans. Houston became the mecca for building jumps since the Texas Commerce Building was 1003 feet tall and was under construction for a very long time. Houston's big buildings were a result of excessive oil revenue from the oil embargo of the late 70s and early 80s. Then oil prices fell and Houston went bankrupt, leaving a ton of empty unfinished buildings.

I'm rambling. Andy Calistrat of Houston started the World BASE Association essentially to compete with the USBA. He had no intention of representing anyone other than his local friends. Nick DG, you around to provide more info.

Anyway, the BASE numbers that Rick and Joy issue are truly international. And I was quite proud when I got mine. To me, it was just as difficult getting my base number as it was to get my masters degree in experimental nuclear physics. However, getting my doctorate was harder than getting the base number. Interestingly, I got the number on my 100th jump by jumping a bridge.
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Re: [460] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
>>Andy Calistrat of Houston started the World BASE Association essentially to compete with the USBA. He had no intention of representing anyone other than his local friends. Nick DG, you around to provide more info.<<

I almost don't even want to write about this anymore as some people accuse me and other U.S.A. types of being jingoistic and they get militant about it. But while it's certainly true there were plenty of singular fixed object jumps (both here and abroad) made prior to when anyone actually called it a sport, I can only relate what I learned at the time the following events actually occurred.

>>From what I understand, BASE cropped up simultaneously in Scandanavia and the U.S.<<

Not really . . .

If by Scandinavia you mean, in general, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Demark, and so on, the first "modern" type jumps there, and in Europe in general, I ever heard of was from Norway's Trollveggen in July of 1980. These were done by Jorma Oster and three fellow Finnish buddies. Jorma had made one previous cliff jump from Yosemite's El Capitan when he visited the States about a year earlier. Carl Boenish, along with his wife Jean, are also on the expedition almost by accident as they just happened to be in Stockholm visiting with an exchange student Carl had met back in the 1950s. And this was not the trip to Norway that he died on as that occurred in 1984.

Carl wrote of these first Troll Wall jumps in the very first issue of his BASE magazine that was published in January of 1981. Although I sat and listened to him speak of these jumps at the Lake Elsinore DZ some months earlier. Jorma also wrote of the jumps in the September, 1981 issue SKYDIVING.

The point is the El Cap loads at Yosemite, which are the ones that really got the ball rolling for fixed object jumping, took place almost two years earlier, in August of 1978. We can even say it went further back as Carl actually started planning those El Cap jumps in the summer of 1975. So even if someone pops up now and claims they know of someone else regularly cliff jumping in Scandinavia earlier than that, as does happen from time to time, it didn't produce the birth of the sport of BASE jumping and that's what we are taking about.

Even the official Trollveggen website at http://www.trollveggen.net/index2.php cites Jorma's jumps in 1980 as the first ones made there. In fact when jumping at the Troll Wall was first banned in 1986, due to a rash of mishaps and accidents and the rescues they caused, we all thought damn, the Troll Wall is going down the same road as El Cap.

Interestingly, Arne Randers Heen, the famous mountain climber, guide, and WWII hero, was on Jorma's expedition and also there when Carl was killed fours years later. He must have been close to 80 years old at the time but he was the only witness to Carl's fatality.

On the USBA vs WBA thing, the United States BASE Association was started by Carl and Jean in about 1981 around the same time Carl first announced the BASE number award. It may have been unfortunate he followed the only model he knew of and that was of the United States Parachute Association. But even though Carl had already had troubles with the Park Rangers in Yosemite he was very optimistic that once the world became aware of BASE jumping it would trump the concerns of any bureaucrats. But he was being wonderfully naïve about the matter.

In 1984, after Carl died in Norway, his widow Jean stepped up and took control of the USBA but her leadership style rubbed too many jumpers the wrong way. It was the first real contention in the BASE community and a harbinger of things to come. In her defense it must be said as a single entity she did a lot for the cause in Yosemite and on a few occasions came very close to backing the NPS into a legal corner that had them scrambling for reasons to prevent jumping. But what really killed BASE jumping in Yosemite was the United States Parachute Association getting involved in the first, and so far only, legal season of El Cap jumping. It lasted just a short three weeks before being shut down by the NPS.

Nowadays in BASE the changes in attitudes and practice come rather slowly. But in the early 80s BASE is so new that changes came very rapidly. In some cases what was accepted one week was proven wrong the next. It was a head spinning time as BASE struggled out of the womb and plenty of mistakes were made. But we can only call them mistakes in hindsight. The biggest one was we didn’t see that BASE and skydiving were really two different things. Prior to USPA's public announcement of the deal for a legal El Cap season they quietly put out the word for input and several meeting were held around the country. And I was there for the one held at the Perris Valley DZ. Let me digress a bit. The reason USPA got involved in the first place is that between the first jumps in 1978 to now in 1982 El Cap was being jumped a lot. But it was being done illegally and lots of jumpers were being imprisoned, charged, and fined. But USPA was publicizing these jumps in its magazine and Carl's films were making the rounds of DZ all over. So lots of jumpers wanted to also make the leap, but they didn't want to break the law to do it. So the membership started to pressure the USPA to step in on their behalf.

At that meeting at Perris, I already sensed trouble ahead, I had my first El Cap jump planned for that summer, but I put the plan on hold, when we got wind of the USPA program. But as I looked around the room I realized no one there had ever made a fixed object jump before. But nonetheless rules about helmets, boots, and no square reserves allowed, no night jumps, no RW, and holding a D license were agreed upon. I believe the USPA never experienced such a mass of D licenses requests after that 'till just a few years ago when the raised the jump number requirements.

At the same time the original guys like, Carl, Phil Smith, Phil Mayfield, etc. had already began to expand fixed object jumping further than cliff jumping. When they started doing towers, buildings, and bridges, it wasn't hard for an even optimistic Carl to see either they kept it quiet or they weren't going to be able to do it at all.

So in 1982 the skydivers, permits in hand, descended on Yosemite valley, and while there was a few minor injuries, no one died, and it proved this jump was doable by the average experienced skydiver. But where the wheels came off was in following the rules laid down by USPA and the NPS. People jumped without permits, at night, did RW, drove up closed trials in big flat bed trucks and generally just acted like you'd expect skydivers would act. They just moved the party from the DZ to Yosemite valley. So the NPS shut down the program early citing numerous violations of the rules. One problem that contributed to this was the majority of jumpers involved didn't see cliff jumping as something they would do over and over. It was a lark, like an occasional water jump, or something to be done once and gotten down in a logbook.

We came to realize later the NPS had a grand plan. They didn't fight the efforts of the UPSA all that much because they knew we'd break the rules and they could then gather the information and facts they needed to shut down BASE jumping forever in Yosemite Valley. And in hindsight you've got to give them credit as to this day their plan worked like a charm. USPA quickly washed their hands of the whole matter, decided to never allow BASE to be mentioned in the magazine again, and just walked away from the whole mess.

So as all that was going on a true BASE underground community was taking shape and those of us still interested in BASE jumping gravitated that way. And all was well until 1984 when Carl died. By now various BASE Magazines began circulating inside the community and BASEline's Phil Smith hired a young assistant named Andy Calistrate. I was and still consider myself a friend of his, but every time I mention Andy in any kind of less than stellar light I hear from him so I know he's still out there. But Andy was the 1986 version of Maggot, or maybe more so NickNitro. Where Carl, and later even Phil presented BASE in their magazines as something grand, something to be respected, something to be nurtured Andy was pure sex, drugs, and rock and roll and the more outrageous he could be the better he liked it. And of course he found a following in other young jumpers who were looking to break out of rigidity of skydiving. And it was then that Andy formed the breakaway organization called the World BASE Association. And the only bylaw seemed to be you had to be anti-Jean Boenish.

Slowly the magazine's letter section became filled with barbs against Jean Boenish. Jean was telling us to go slow, to be careful and be fully prepared, to leave only footprints and respect the environment, but that was lost on a lot of jumpers as past events seemed to indicate no one was ever going to just let us BASE jump, so if you wanted it you just went out and took it. And that's when we became the air pirates. And the infighting began in earnest. But over the course of that time we did observe two simple rules. We didn’t burn sites and we didn’t publicize what we were doing. It was an honor among thieves thing. So most of the heartburn in the sport revolved around those who broke those rules.

As I read in BASEline, and saw in the field with my own eyes, in the late 1980s things started to get violent. Actual fisticuffs were breaking out all over the BASE community and I knew we were better than that so I started my own BASE magazine in 1989 called the Fixed Object Journal hoping to raise the bar at least a little bit. At the same time Andy broke away from BASEline as Phil started to lose interest and he also started a magazine of his own called the BASE Gazette. One reader wrote in to say I was doing the National Geographic of BASE and Andy was doing the Mad Magazine of BASE. And that was an apt description I suppose.

Then the 1990s began, but that's a whole other story . . .

NickD
BASE 194
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Re: [Ronald] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
Ronald wrote:
I am pretty sure americans have lots of stereotypes about europeans as well.

Hijack alert.

Like they don't tip, or if they do its arrogantly low, at least it looks as if so. Now there are a few good apples in the bunch, but a lot of bad ones.

What does this have to do with anyone here. Nothing that I know of. 7 years of working in bars and restaurants in SF has taught me this first hand. just venting.

Return to your normally operating thread now.
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Re: [nicrussell] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
Hey!

Rick and I tip 25% for good service, no matter where in the world we are, this means you get even better service next time.

That is all,

Joy
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Re: [JOY] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
I remember getting my card in the mail, from Joy. I liked the fact that it was a self-organized system, nobody really in charge and more of a small community of like-minded misfits who somehow (sort of) managed to agree on the numbering process. I also liked the fact that it was entirely self-reported, and anybody could lie their way in if they really wanted to.

Having an old-fashioned BASE number ties us, symbolically, into the roots of the sport. I like that. It's like, back in the old days of climbing before things got modern, soloing 5.11, climbing Open Cockpit at the Gunks, or Figures on a Landscape at Josh was that sort of symbolic tie-in to history.

It does seem like BASE has outgrown the old numbering system. Still, it looks like people are still applying so actions, as always, speak louder than words.

In honor of someone who had a cooler number than I,

"Cheers mate,"

D-d0g
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Re: [Dd0g] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
I wonder who got BASE 666?

Would you still jump if you got that, or would you consider it a bad omen?
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Re: [aresye] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
BASE 666 died on a skydive a few years ago. The BASE 666 username in this forum is utilized by a Yosemite ranger, who gets paid by taxpayers (like me) to keep tabs on jumpers (like me).
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Re: [Zoter] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
What is this German BASE number and how do I get one and what do I need to qualify for it?
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Re: [brianfry713] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
there is no thing like german base number existing....
GBA means something completely different...
ask mikki zh for the purpose of this numberWink
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Re: [elduderino] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
>>there is no thing like german base number existing.... <<

One neat thing about the early days was anyone was free to start their own BASE centric numbering system.

Besides the master "world" BASE list that Carl Boenish kept, there were many individual country and U.S. state lists. Among others there was British BASE, German BASE, Texas BASE, Michigan BASE, and so on. There was also method specific BASE numbers, like naked BASE, arrest BASE, and screw BASE.

Anyone can start a list like that and BASE number one in a pink tutu is still very much available as is wingsuit BASE. And I'd bet there are some close enough to get wingsuit BASE number one, if they were so inclined.

The reason these sub-lists go away is the folks who started them drop out of the sport.

And maybe less whimsical there were not only BASE type numbers exactly, but object numbers. I know there used to be an El Cap number because I have number six hundred and something and that was a very long time ago. I'd love to have a reliable number for today of how many people successfully made that leap. It might help with the Yosemite issue . . .

NickD Smile
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Re: [NickDG] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
In reply to:
very much available as is wingsuit BASE

The deed was done / completed a number of years ago (except for E, all were very short "flights" - more like exits). Someone else can have the number.

E - Norway 1998
S - Austria 1999
B - Australia 1999
A - Australia 2000/1 ?

Smile

In reply to:
the folks who started them drop out of the sport

Wait for the comeback!!! Wink

Not EC - but a few of his mates down the road! Wink
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Re: [base428] SKY & BASE Numbers
Aahhh, the BASE numbers question:

- I don't have one. Why? Because one of the reasons I got into BASE jumping was the feeling of freedom and the total reliance on self - responsibility. I am answerable to myself, my values, my ethics, my conscience, and to those people and organisations that I decide are relevant. I did not want yet another registration / membership /etc. . . . This could change in the future? Who knows?

The irony is that I am indelibly connected to the BASE community in many ways and have been involved in committees, organising, public events, training, etc.

I am in no way against the BASE number system. In fact, I think it is a great idea from many perspectives:
- recording history.
- fun. Banana BASE. Naked BASE. Circus BASE. etc.
- rewarding people for their special achievement.
- giving people something to aim for - a GOAL.
- allowing us to understand where people fit into the picture. This has many facets to it: knowing who did what and when, who to talk to about . . . , who achieved things first, second, when gear was modified, geographical / cultural / national expansion of the sport, etc.

I will not apply for a number (I would have fit in somewhere around high 300's ??). But I have requested one from the CroBA. Wink Why? Because I want BASE #1 in the Country from where Faust Verancic originated from and to beat Robi Bird. I am still waiting for this list to come out. Robert???? Tongue

American? European?

If you look at things from a cultural perspective, Americans tend to be more arrogant and have to be on top and in control at almost all costs. Europeans are more snobby and tend to thumb their noses at the colonials around the world. There is a lot of inward focus which is shown by a lack of worldly awareness and inherent bias based on nationalism instead of logical thought. I think that this a big generalisation. But that is the general population. On the whole, I have found both groups in the niche we know as the BASE community to be very welcoming and fun to be with.

What about Australians? Well, we just love to shit stir (especially our American allies). I hate giving $ tips, but do so in the USA because I think it's a bit unfair that the capitalist pigs who own companies cannot manage their profit loss in such a way that they can reward their good employees fairly and still make a profit. The tips system to me is encouraging poor management of costs and transferring the responsibilty to the customer. It has some good points - forcing better customer service in some areas. But it is not an efficient system in this regard either. But this is a cultural expecation and I try to fit in. Same thing for Europe - in Summer you have to expect some delays in service and appreciate what you get. You also have to make an attempt at communicating in their language. In Australia, she'll be right mate. In Asia, politeness and courtesy are important.

R.E. Numbers
In the end, it does not matter who has numbers and systems. If history is not recorded, then there is no proof that someone did something, and they cannot complain later down the track that someone else is taking the credit for being first. If you are not interested in recording in the first place, then it should not matter that someone else has the number or not.

If your intent is first, then you owe it to your personal integrity to research the possibility (or probability) that someone has beaten you to the task. Simply creating a number system and making a claim lacks values and could be considered unethical.

If your intent is just to get a number, then be honest about getting the 4 objects and get that number. There is nothing wrong with that.

If you did not want a number in the first place, saying (as I did above) that I could have got one years ago and decided not to does not add value to the number system beyond that fact that you are adding to the total pool of data about the history and involvement in BASE jumping.

Questioning someone about not getting a number is irrelevant too. They chose not to. End of story. Deal with it.

What about all those people who have parachuted from fixed objects? Are they BASE jumpers? This is a question of meaning, definition, and semantics. One definite fact is that they do not qualify for a BASE number (as per the system administered by Joy H) as they do not meet the criteria.

Are they less of a jumper? NO. They made choices and should be respected for them accordingly.

So the question is then, what do we call them? BASE jumpers? Fixed Objects jumpers? Fjellhoppens?

I think we should keep it simple. If they want to be called a BASE jumper, they are entitled to it. They just don't (yet) qualify for a number. If they want to be called something else. That is OK too.

In the end, who really gives a shit?

Stay Safe
Have Fun
Good Luck

Tom B
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Re: [TVPB] SKY & BASE Numbers
>>In the end, who really gives a shit?<<

Obviously, you do . . . Wink

NickD Smile
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Re: [NickDG] The Master BASE Number List - Revealed . . .
One of the proudest things I've ever accomplished was getting my BASE #. Personally I was so freakin' happy, but yeah, I have a several broes that coulda' got their # waaay before me and still haven't for a variety of reasons. Usually it's cuz' they just don't give a shit. Nothing wrong with that.
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Re: [NickDG] SKY & BASE Numbers
As Nic F would say, consider yourself smiled at!
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Re: [Ronald] SKY & BASE Numbers
If anyone really has a question about Carl Boenish's intent to make BASE international versus just American, you should simply read the back of the green BASE card. It has always been intended for all jumpers anywhere in the world that decided they wanted to experience the unique rush of each of the 4 original BASE objects. They are all quite different and rewarding. If you don't want a Building, so be it, but you will miss that particular rush and yes, you will still be a BASE jumper, just not a Building jumper, etc.
Rick
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Re: [NickDG] SKY & BASE Numbers
 
I do and I don't. Tongue Much more do than don't. Blush

I guess my point with that last comment was - who cares whether or not anyone believes in the system, the jump, both, or neither. If someone takes the step, they are IN as far as I am concerned. And the achievement is no greater or no less with or without a number. Numbers are great, having the system is great, I encourage people to participate and think that those who created or have administered the system have performed noble deeds that have made a valuable contributions to society.

It is also important to recognise the fact that their are others outside who are just as worthy - the mountain flyers, the quiet achievers, even the snobs Wink.
Ultimately, it is the act and the people which are greater that the system.