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I just bought a Troll DW with 100 jumps on it. The previous owner did a mod recommended to him to remove the centre control lines (i.e. the inner 2 steering lines where they meet the canopy).

The reason he said for this was that several people in Norway had told him that this reduces the chance of tension knots. Has anyone heard of this problem before? Is it related to slider-up jumps?

Only got 20 slider down jumps
on my 285 Troll DW but they
were all good, no problems.

Well since you mention it...

The only cutaway I have in a skydive environment was a Troll packed like a BASE canopy (no bag, lines in tailpocket) in a super-large old borrowed skydiving rig, on a hop-n-pop. There was a tension knot between the inner most and the center steering line. It deformed the canopy enough that straight flight = enough input on the other side to stall it. If I had a body of water, it would have been a soft landing. Instead I had a body of dirt, so I opted to use the very expired reserve that, once I saw it and realized it was a piece of shit too, I regretted almost as bad as the 1st piece of shit.

Good application for a hook-knife, me thinks, as I think most of the deflection was due to the control line being shortened by the knots...

So yes, it has happened.... And never jump a Laser 250 reserve. Haven't heard of it? Nether had I....

 
First i've heard of it, stane@basetroll.com would be the best person to ask.

I am fairly certain you are referring to the problem with early generation blackjacks/aces with uneven upper steering lines.

This relates specifically to a Troll DW issue. The reason I mentioned it is because I was thinking of returning it to 5 control lines. It turns a lot slower than my other canopies (Fox's).

I spoke to Stane and he is aware of the modification. He mentioned that I should try shortening the steering lines. They may be a bit long. This may help improve the turning response.

man im glad its not just me then. i recently bought a troll 265 mdv and though ive only put a few jumps on it, shit, it takes FOREVER to get braked turn input on that thing. compared to a mojo and fox that ive jumped before it really takes its time to turn, not something im really into..............
i gotta try out a blackjack one of these days.

also ive been told (not through experience) that the trolls tend to "dance" when jumped slider up, so my plan is to use it only for slider down jumps.

99.99% of my jumps have been on Trolls and I have never had any of these problems but obviously I have no means for comparison to other canopies. Looking forward to flying the OSP.

Jim

Edit to add- I have not removed any brake lines or made any mods.

no problems also, have 2 with 5 lines and 2 with 4 and all good here ;)

FTF !!!

any canopy can have tension knots from bad packing technique to not taking to twist out you brake line or act of god what ever

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also ive been told (not through experience) that the trolls tend to "dance" when jumped slider up
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I jump troll 245 and 265 I have not had that kind of problem need to keep it to factual not hearsay because of the new jumpers the read this form

I second that, and call double bullshit on dancing around. Unless of course you are taking 3 seconds small mesh slider up.

stick to the factual knowledge. Cuz I also heard that BASE jumping is illegal in the United States. So much for hearsay :(

Happy with my "stock" 245 MDV. Occasional slight snivel (slider down), could be the shitty packer's fault. No wierdness in this canopy at all.

It's been a lot of discussion here in Norway for some years about any relation between the fifth line and tension knots. I believe it's only related to slider-up jumps. I believe the reason for this is an increase in tension knots appearing here the latest years, and AFAIK all (or at least most) of the incidents have been done on gear with the fifth line. It's been happening on at least Flik, Troll and Ace. It's been different people, different packing methods and different nationalities.

Even though we feel it's an increase in number of tension knots appearing, it's not a huge amount of incidents so it's really hard to have valid statistics on it. It's still a very uncommon problem so making 20 (or 1000 for that matters) jumps with five lines doesn't necessary give any indications on the problem. But if removing the line changes chances for a tension knot from 1/5000 to 1/10000 it might be worth it.

Basically the removing of the fifth line is based on the idea that in tension knots it's the steering lines that create the tension, and common sense say that more lines give higher chances of one of them messing up. As base canopies have done a good job with only four lines for many years lots of people don't feel it's worth it risking a tension knot even if it gives better flare and turns.

BTW: Even though this have been discussed a lot this is not an unanimous agreement that this is the reason for the problem. Use your own common sense. Removing a line from the canopy might cause other problems.

one of my friend stared packing tandem for DZ, first couple week there was two cutaway because of tension knots, as he got better at packing tandem rig the tension knots stop happening, the packing and also if you do lots of slider down jump the friction from the slider coming down heating up the brake line specially if you set it on deep brake, check and compare for the original length of the line, next time you jump soon as the canopy open before popping the brake look at the brake line and see if there is same amount of bow in the line you might have more bowing on the fifth line, or it might have noting to do with what I just wrote

by 4 rigs it better be,spoiled kid..