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Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
so... what do YOU, my fellow BASE jumpers, think about these things I listed here? (predominantly my American friends, but not limited too)

Chemtrails,
HAARP,
Apollo 'Hoax',
9/11 'cover up',
Holocaust Fake,
2012 world end,


Just asking if anyone has any opinions about any of these?
to be included in this is not limited to the China Quake cause, global warming 'agenda', war motivation, etc.
If you have never heard of any of these, that is a perfectly acceptable answer. in fact, that means you pass.


PPS- this is just out of curiosity, I am thinking of making some entertainment program proposals for cheap television.


if anyone cites 'loose change' or 'Zeitgeist' I will fucking end you.
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Re: [Calvin19] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
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Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist Loose change Zeitgeist That's probably enough

FIXED!!!
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Re: [hookitt] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Nice......LaughSlyLaughSly
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Re: [SabreDave] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Spelled Zeitgeist wrong about...every time.
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Re: [hookitt] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
brilliant.
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Re: [Calvin19] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Hookitt, if I could put that whole post in my sigline, I would. That was the best series of magnetic refrigerator poetry I've seen yet Wink
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Re: [Calvin19] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Alright Calvin19, I'll bite. Smile

I do think Global Warming is... well not an "agenda"
but an emotionally charged issue that lacks some
focus and rigor - as well as a situation that provides
positive externalities for the press, some scientists,
corn growers, etc.

I seriously doubt that majority of college aged kids
who have such strong feelings about this issue are
aware that during the 70's scientists had a world
summit to discuss the crisis of Global Cooling.

Now before everyone freaks on me -- I recycle,
I compost, I carpool, I conserve electricity, I do
NOT litter, climbing out of the canyon I collected
trash, there is almost zero processed food in my
house, and we eat a minimal amount of meat
compared to most Americans.

In my opinion complaning about global warming
is the same as bitching about possible water
damage to your boat as it sinks!

The simplest solution to the problem is to have
fewer people on the planet, which would reduce
demand for energy, food, space and produce
less waste, trash, etc.

Hence every couple should try to have only 2
kids which replaces them and keeps the level
of population stable. I watched Al Gore's "An
Inconvenient Truth" and he NEVER mentioned
this idea/concept/solution because the idea of
having less kids is so taboo.


However, I think making a cheap spoof of the
other concepts would be very humorous. I got
an email once that was a collection of all the
dumb email forwards and it cracked me up...
of course it included the $2,000 Neiman Marcus
chocolate chip cookie recipe.
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Re: [GreenMachine] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
thanks green!
while i was not looking for global warming as a main issue really, (it was just the possible motivation behind one of the conspiracy theories I asked about) you did answer seriously.

as for me agreeing with your answer, less people is the ONLY solution. but I'm a bit more extreme. IMHO, Abortion should be mandatory (as early as possible) for all un-applied for children/mistakes, and should be optional until the child is four years old.Unimpressed limiting one or two children per couple depending on their financial abilities to raise a child.
Tongue

anyone else, I really want to know if you put any faith in the conspiracy theories that I listed.

thanks!
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Re: [Calvin19] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
I am actually really happy no one has replied to the insane theories that DO exist on a disturbing scale around the world. I guess that I have found that the kind of show I could make would have to be more 'informational'. explaining why people are confused about stuff like HAARP being a research project, not a new world order weather control weapon of mass destruction. or Apollo being faked to increase the moral of the US.

good to know.
thanks!
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Re: [aresye] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
aresye wrote:
Spelled Zeitgeist wrong about...every time.

Thanks for the heads up.
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Re: [Calvin19] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Calvin19 wrote:
Chemtrails,
HAARP,
Apollo 'Hoax',
9/11 'cover up',
Holocaust Fake,
2012 world end,

Hey you forgot a few!!!
earth age = only 5000 years
vaccines cause autism
pilots see UFOs all the time but lie about it (been accused of this personally)

(ducking and running away)

edit: added another one
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Re: [Calvin19] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
The attached spreadsheet contains a simulation of a collapse of a 110-story, 410m high building in assumption of zero material resistance and inelastic collision between the floors I did in 2004. Due to conservation of momentum, one floor that hits another, decreases its speed in half; the two floors continue falling, accelerate, but their speed is decreased after they hit the third floor by one third, and so on. This process is iterated 110 times and the total time of collapse is calculated. This time turns out to be 16.4s. Both towers actually fell in 9-10s. The freefall time from 410m without air resistance (let alone steel/concrete resistance) is 9.1s.

I don't know what to make out of it, it's just a nice high school physics problem. Wink

The Apollo crap is so laughable that once you "see" it under the microscope of elementary physics, you'll watch the lunar videos like a comic show of puppets. Again, gravity is the Sherlock Holmes here: watch carefully videos of lunar rover - mismatch between vehicle speed and the height that the dust is launched to (it should be launched 6 times higher than that on earth, at similar speed), mismatch between the dust launched by shoes of the jumping astronaut (all dust lands well before him - at least, some dust should have spent about the same time in freefall as the astronaut), fallen astronauts raising straight up with their C.G. well outside of their feet, jumping astronauts visibly slowing down just before the touchdown (although the resolution, height of the jump, and framerate do not allow reliably say that the coordinate vs. time is not a parabola as it should be (I tried) - there must be a reason they didn't jump to 30ft Wink), etc. etc.

The world is just a giant circus!
9-11 Collapse Simulation.xls
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Re: [yuri_base] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
this is a straightforward question, please answer one or the other.
as far as the Apollo thing goes, are you playing advocate or being sincere?
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Re: [yuri_base] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
It has been my experience after years of researching and arguing simple conspiracy theories (mostly, if not entirely, Apollo hoax and chemtrail theories) that 95% of the time, the belief in the theory is based on a few 'holes' poked in a otherwise perfect (ergo/AKA TRUE) historic event.

A perfect example being someone looking at a few moon landing videos and thinking it looks 'weird', or someone seeing a picture of flight testing changing CG water tanks in a new airbus and claiming there is barium in the barrels, not water.

the world IS a giant circus, my dear friend. But even a circus is little more than simple physics and trained, planned stunts. anything designed by man can be explained by man, from lingering contrails to invisible flame rocket engines. Seemingly impossible magic to the noob of logic and real world physics, but real nonetheless.
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Re: [Calvin19] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Personally, I think that if 9/11 was an inside job, at least one person in the government attached to the project would have spoken up. The amount of people required to pull something off at that level is so high, I doubt they would all have been able to sleep peacefully about it, and if they did, then there's definitely something horribly wrong with who we elect to power.

Now, the 2012 theory definitely has me spooked. The way current politics is going, I've had many reoccuring feelings that something bad is going to happen in the near future. I've had many dreams about something like it happening, and even more scary, is that falls at the time my first enlistment in the military is suppost to end.
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Reply to ARESYE: Hocus Pocus
When I was a young boy, a kid in the
neighborhood explained why 1999 was
gonna be the end, which was a piece of
intel he learned from his teenage brother:

If you take 1999 and draw a box around
it and then turn it upside-down it reveals
the mark of the beast. [666]

Please note this parlor trick was faster
to do on paper, more impressive, and
easier to believe at the age of 6 in 1978.


Then on another occasion a kid told
me that a bar code on a product is the
mark of the beast. I knew he was full
of shit but when we learned about UPCs
in school I almost got in trouble for
laughing out loud uncontrollably.

I doubt 2012 is the end, but if it is,
oh well, it's been fun, Take It Light!
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Reply to Yuri: Glasnost
Yuri,I second Calvin19's question.

Please say you are kidding us,
playing devil's advocate,
or something Angelic

By the way, the wife got video of your
water landing, let me know if you want
to see it.
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Re: [Calvin19] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Calvin19 wrote:
so... what do YOU, my fellow BASE jumpers, think about these things I listed here? (predominantly my American friends, but not limited too)

Chemtrails,
HAARP,
Apollo 'Hoax',
9/11 'cover up',
Holocaust Fake,
2012 world end,

Had to look up some of these. It is amusing.

Colm - the autism thing was actually a legitimate scientific theory that has to do with metabolism of heavy metals

Another amusing one, but unfortunately this one is a real problem... Remember that Y2K bug? Well, here it comes again, only this time in the year 2038.

You see... On Jan 19th, 2038, at 3:14:09AM, computers will think it is actually Dec 13th, 1901. Cue doomsday scenario.

... but I'm not an actual base jumper, so this is all moot anyway.
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Re: [stevenm] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
stevenm wrote:
... but I'm not an actual base jumper, so this is all moot anyway.


hahahahaha.... yeah, the world only ends for you if you are current and have a BASE # below 1000. TongueAngelicCool
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Re: [Calvin19] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Calvin19 wrote:
hahahahaha.... yeah, the world only ends for you if you are current and have a BASE # below 1000. Tongue Angelic Cool

Hahahaha... at this pace, I'm probably going to be pretty safe then. Good thing we're over base 1000.

Here's more food for thought Wink Remember, just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you anyway Smile
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Re: [yuri_base] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Probably trying to be WAY more clever than I really am, but could the collapsing building model not be affected by something similar to the way the air in front of a jet parts BEFORE the jet gets to it.......the shockwaves (or similar) of the higher floors impacting each other may have caused the floors 2, 3 or 4 floors below to start collapse before the floor above them actually landed on them.......??

Or something like that.

Maybe.

Also - I think they did land on the moon, but I don't think they were able to send back live images, so the films were faked.
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Re: [GreenMachine] Reply to Yuri: Glasnost
Tom and Calvin19, I'm not kidding. I would be interested to hear rigor physical arguments of how a 110 story 410m building can collapse in 9 seconds or why astronauts and dust on the moon move at 6x different accelerations in the same gravity field. Wink

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I don't make any speculations about who, why, and how. I'm saying, "this physically can't be and here's why". Who, why and how, is open to everyone's imagination.
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Re: [freeflynick] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
In reply to:
but could the collapsing building model not be affected by something similar to the way the air in front of a jet parts BEFORE the jet gets to it.......the shockwaves (or similar) of the higher floors impacting each other may have caused the floors 2, 3 or 4 floors below to start collapse before the floor above them actually landed on them.......??

This is how drag is formed. It must take longer for an object to fall when there's drag compared to when there's no drag. In case of unassisted building top-down collapse, the drag is caused by accelerating the mass of debris in front of the falling floors plus the resistance of steel and concrete being crushed. The first part (slowdown purely due to conservation of momentum) is what my model is based on, the second part will slow down the fall to much larger extent. If Galileo built a 410m high vacuum tube next to WTC and dropped a cannon ball inside it, it would fall virtually simultaneously with the towers (9.1s). I say, this can't be.

Also, non-uniformity of structure should be taken into account. The core of the tower and the floors cannot fall at the same rate due to vastly different resistances. Yet they fell virtually simultaneously.

The art and science of how to reduce the "drag" and make buildings fall is quickly as possible is called controlled demolition. Wink
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Re: [Calvin19] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
these guys are my favorite!
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Re: [yuri_base] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
yuri_base wrote:
Also, non-uniformity of structure should be taken into account. The core of the tower and the floors cannot fall at the same rate due to vastly different resistances. Yet they fell virtually simultaneously.

non-uniformity?
I assume you mean that typically buildings are stronger at their center. elevator shafts and mechanical structures beef up the center.

right after the towers collapsed, I heard plenty of reports regarding the towers. they evidently had a unique exo-skeleton rather than an internal one. if true, the outside would be stronger than the center. heck, the center could have collapsed longer before anything visible occurred on the outside.

then again, I have not attempted to look into it. I'm happy to accept it DID happen.

I once read there are 3 types of phenomena, the known, the unknown, and the unknowable. I do NOT need to calculate everything. I rather enjoy experiencing certain mysteries...
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Re: [yuri_base] Reply to Yuri: Glasnost
 
this is not about the freefall/collapse speed but there is a good debunking of the 'squib' theory.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/.../1227842.html?page=1
freefall debunk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLShZOvxVe4

Freefall debunk, again.
http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm


MY personal favorite, and after talking with Physics/aerospace proffessors and experts for long hours on this website, they got it all right.
http://www.clavius.org/


ALL PHYSICS CALCULATIONS ASIDE,

there is something you have to grasp as a conspiracy believer. that there are MILLIONS or more people that have to keep there mouths shut, and not leak a word of it. you have to grasp that there are people who said "ok, lets do this, lets kill a few thousand innocent civilians on our side to get our way". you ALSO, (and more importantly) have to grasp that there are smarter people than you, WAY smarter than you or me, that are experts on things like aerospace physics, engineering etc, that have nothing to do with what would be involved in the theory, and that THOSE people don't seem to find anything wrong with what happened.

now, of course there is websites dedicated for the OPPOSITE of what my goal in this post is, so you CAN believe what you want, Life is more fun if you believe in magic.

also, I am no expert on 9/11, a total noob when it comes to architectural physics, but it seems like all the same people that believe in the Apollo hoax, the chemtrail project, the HAARP world ending weapon, and other anti-gov theories are dead set on 9/11 being an inside job. its the same mindset, "the world is a circus!"

I have no 'for sure' opinion of the inside job/not inside job. I am not smart enough there. I just want the theorists to get their evidence correct.


I -AM- 100% positive on chemtrails and Apollo, however. I respect the audacity it takes to stand up to a commercial airline pilot thats been there or a NASA aerospace engineer that designed the things that went. but a good shot with a sling makes a huge difference between David and Goliath and David and a brilliant scientist with a sniper rifle and 40 years experience.


PPS- was not looking for a fight, I have other websites for that. but Im down for an argument. Tongue
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Re: [GooManChew] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
GooManChew wrote:
these guys are my favorite!


hahaha... yeah. I started on that website once, even started a facebook group about it. I found that to be to far out than some other things.
a friend of mine, a kid I never met who lives in the UK is my only ali on these sites, and he agrees. he even has a alias that he 'builds' conspiracy theories. its an experiment to see how easy it is to convince people who WANT to believe, to believe.
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Re: [Calvin19] Reply to Yuri: Glasnost
Like BASE, it's hopeless.

Smile
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Re: [yuri_base] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
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Re: [yuri_base] Reply to Yuri: Glasnost
yuri_base wrote:
Like BASE, it's hopeless.

Smile

without doubt. Smile
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Re: [stevenm] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
stevenm wrote:
the autism thing was actually a legitimate scientific theory that has to do with metabolism of heavy metals

Please... call it a "hypothesis!!!" a quite thoroughly debunked one at that, lest there be any lingering confusion, exceptions made to rich dumb celebrities

http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Theory

http://scienceblogs.com/.../OpenLetterFinal.pdf

but feel free to disagree! of course only real base jumpers have the mental clarity needed to sort through these things.

or, feel free to call it part of the darwinist liberal god-hating atheist conspiracy to allow gay marriage and big pharm companies turn our kids into autistic communist-supporting drones and.. no, wait... conspiracy to keep climate science researchers funded with federal grant money because they are in cahoots with the oil companies, HAARP, and the WTO, who...no, ...erm.. the UFO-coverup conspiracy by a secret council of jews who control the world economy and masterminded 9/11... uhh.. JUST SHUT UP, OK!Tongue
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Re: [Calvin19] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Calvin19 wrote:
he even has a alias that he 'builds' conspiracy theories. its an experiment to see how easy it is to convince people who WANT to believe, to believe.

Ever heard of "Poe's Law?"
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Re: [Colm] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
I knew of the concept, but never that term. I like it. thanks!

and yeah, thats exactly what that is.

maybe EVERYONE is just a poe? and -I- am paying the tab?TongueSmileUnimpressedShockedUnsure
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Re: [Calvin19] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Here's a solution for you...

http://www.vhemt.org/

"May we live long and die out"
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Re: [Calvin19] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Calvin19 wrote:
its an experiment to see how easy it is to convince people who WANT to believe, to believe.

Yup! It's pretty easy to convince the sheeple.. erm, I mean people, of anything WinkTongue. See, for instance these guys. That's gotta be the best one
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Re: [stevenm] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
stevenm wrote:
Calvin19 wrote:
its an experiment to see how easy it is to convince people who WANT to believe, to believe.

Yup! It's pretty easy to convince the sheeple.. erm, I mean people, of anything Wink Tongue. See, for instance these guys. That's gotta be the best one

The best part was that ad on the bottom:

"Searching for a one-sided surface?
Need a zero-volume bottle?
Want the ultimate in DHMO-safe topology?
Yes! Absolutely! But where can I find such a non-orientable manifold?
www.kleinbottles.com"
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Re: [Ghetto] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Ok. I propose a new conspiracy theory, as follows:

Most conspiracy theories out there are perpetuated by the government, just to draw the attention away from the real cover-ups.

Eh?
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Re: [stevenm] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
7
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9/11 Conspiracy Theories 'Ridiculous,' Al Queda Says
http://www.theonion.com/..._conspiracy_theories
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Re: [460] 9/11 Conspiracy Theories 'Ridiculous,' Al Queda Says
Onion rules.
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Re: [Calvin19] 9/11 Conspiracy Theories 'Ridiculous,' Al Queda Says
More from the Onion:
Suspicious Package Industry Falls Upon Hard Times

I'm surprised noone mentioned how HDTV signals are used for mind control yet. Maybe we all need one of these?

PS

ilovethisthread.jpg
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Re: [stevenm] 9/11 Conspiracy Theories 'Ridiculous,' Al Queda Says
I had never heard of HDV signal theory... thanks!

I jump a tower all the time with HUGE STRONG HDTV tx on top... i keep wanting to go back and get closer to it... I dont know why. just this thing in my head. . .
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Re: [yuri_base] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Regarding Apollo, what about the lunar retroreflectors that were placed on the moon that allow simple Earth-based experiments to be performed? http://physics.ucsd.edu/...y/apollo/apollo.html

And the very unusual composition of the lunar rocks?
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HAARP article
if you get popular science there's an article about HAARP in the latest issue. pretty interesting geeky physics stuff apparently. or earthquake producing mind control, whichever, either way its pretty amazing and apparently we are getting our money's worth out of it.
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Re: [Calvin19] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Personally, I think people should be neutered at birth and when they can prove they "deserve" to raise a child the procedure can be reversed. So, if an "approved" has sex with someone who has not had the procedure reversed, he/she sill not suffer the ill effects of an "unplanned" pregnancy.
Keeps abortion out of the loop, satisfies everyone. Unfortunately, who will decide to approve a reversal?
I am still working on that one. ..


My 2c, peace,

jeanie.

A few more cents.....

1.
Moon man, Bart Sibrel, Apollo debunker, Buz Aldron foe, I grew up with him..... he shot me with a BB gun when I was 11ish..... Under the influence one night, 19ish years later, I saw him on Fox Affiliate and called him, he sent me a video and box of Moon Pies the pies and movies made their way around the Perris Ghetto.

http://www.moonmovie.com/


2.
Three children I know personally, (my niece one of them)
Very normally developing children, talking, walking, eye contact.
Severe reaction to MMR shot. (measels,Mumps, Rubella) at about 18 months. Shut down and were diagnosed autistic by about 2 years old. Is it the shot? Some kids are autistic and some aren't. I dunno, but I think the predisposition to autism coupled with a severe reaction could have kicked it off. Autism is showing up earlier.... Well they are now giving the shot at 1 year. Also, there is one size fits all shots for children. The amount of shots a child gets in his first 2 years, I would never take myself and never subject my son to that regiment either.

3.
They may not have planned it, but they let it happen.

No point, just 2 am and nothing on TV but commercials infiltrating my brain.


JJJJJJJj
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Re: [JeanJeanie] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
JeanJeanie wrote:
2.
Three children I know personally, (my niece one of them)
Very normally developing children, talking, walking, eye contact.
Severe reaction to MMR shot. (measels,Mumps, Rubella) at about 18 months. Shut down and were diagnosed autistic by about 2 years old. Is it the shot? Some kids are autistic and some aren't. I dunno, but I think the predisposition to autism coupled with a severe reaction could have kicked it off. Autism is showing up earlier.... Well they are now giving the shot at 1 year. Also, there is one size fits all shots for children. The amount of shots a child gets in his first 2 years, I would never take myself and never subject my son to that regiment either.

there's nothing dumber than getting into an argument on the internet, so i won't say anything... except that if you & your kid are lucky enough not to get measles, you can thank the rest of us for herd immunity! Wink

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1469-7610.2005.01425.x
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Re: [JeanJeanie] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Obviously, autism is a complicated thing. In some cases, the child may undergo seemingly normal development and then develop the symptoms - the so-called regressive autism. Noone is really sure why or how this happens.

I remember working at a bio internship where our advisor believed that autism was caused by high intake of heavy metals in certain patients. If I remember correctly, there is a certain class of proteins that are responsible for metabolism of heavy metals (mercury, cadmium, etc) and presumably these are not functioning properly in autistic kids. If they are not metabolized quickly, the heavy metals make connections with organic compounds and remain in the body for a long time, affecting development in various nasty ways. Now, there are several ways that heavy metals can get into the body: through food (mainly fish), and yes, through vaccinations. Not just MMR but others as well. Why they have heavy metals? I have no idea.

There was an argument that as the number of vaccinations went up, so did the number of reported autism cases - but this may very well be because doctors are just getting better at recognizing autism.

I don't know what became of this research, but at least that's the reasoning behind it, at least as far as I remember. I did not go the BioE way.... (bashes head repeatedly) .. just my $0.02.
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Re: [Colm] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Did I say my son hasn't gotten vaccinations? No need to jump to conclusions, what I said was, "The amount of shots a child gets in his first 2 years, I would never take myself and never subject my son to that regiment either." I am not a "NO SHOT NO DOCTOR" fanatic, I did a lot of research, not on wikipedia, spent days looking at illness and reactions to shots and came up with an alternative shot schedule that gets him in for 'shots only' so I can space out the shots, and delays others until there is danger of exposure to the illness. A schedule my pediatrician agreed with. MMR can be separated as well so as to avoid a cocktail that causes many children to become ill, not autistic, but just sick.
Esteban is now 26 months, he has had a fever once, last week (after going in to the doctor for a checkup)and, no I did not take him to the doctor for the fever, I treated it, kept it in check, he has experienced diarrhea once and 2 very mild colds. Most children I know his age are constantly sick or have runny noses. It is OK that you don't agree, but we are doing just fine. I have seen the ill effects of not only measles, but shingles that appear much later in life. I just think the pharmaceutical companies have a little too much say in what, how much and when our children get poked.....hey are just all too eager to get ALL baby girls vaccinated for HPV, Geez people.......
No, it is my responsibility to 'trust no one' and form an educated decision, based on fact, knowledge and , yes, GUT feeling.

Peace, man.................
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Re: [JeanJeanie] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
from my two years of arguing chemtrails and apollo, as well as a small amount of building demolition physics and my personal aerospace education, I have found that, despite wikipedia's criticism, it is 10^8850293 times better than 99.9_ %of the conspiracy websites out there.


Yuri Base, I don't care if your the opposite crazy of me, your right.
its hopeless
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Re: [Calvin19] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
we are talking about people that believe Chemtrails disperse barium 'medium' into the atmosphere to carry the HAARP high frequency signals throughout the world to resonate with personal microwaves that are placed in peoples homes for fractions of cost due to govermnet help in that specific industry, the waves in turn are aplified through the microwave heater in your house and resonate with the heavy metals the flouride from the drinking water metabolizes in your bloodstream.

oh, and hemp oil cures more cancer than western medicine, The reptoids that walk amoung us in disguises are scientifically proven to be alien hybrids, Kennedy tried to expose the Illuminati new world order and was shot for it, and never would have been OK with faking Apollo, etc, etc.

I could go on.

I'm not saying pick sides, I'm just saying its gotta suck being afraid to nuke a bowl of oatmeal.
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Re: [Calvin19] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Jeez, haven't you sheeple seen Capricorn One? The moon landing was phaked. They phaked it so well they went and phaked it like, six times since it boosted moral so good. I mean, come on, where would they find dust on the moon? IT'S MADE OF CHEESE, PEOPLE! Cheese doesn't dust, it molds!
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Re: [aresye] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
aresye wrote:
Personally, I think that if 9/11 was an inside job, at least one person in the government attached to the project would have spoken up. The amount of people required to pull something off at that level is so high, I doubt they would all have been able to sleep peacefully about it, and if they did, then there's definitely something horribly wrong with who we elect to power..
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Well said. I've often asked conspiracy nuts this little gem.
"What do you call a conspiracy involving thousands of people?"
I don't know about you, but I call it public knowledge.
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Re: [zoobrothertom] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
Hmm.. the response I commonly hear to that is some kind of prophecy from Revelation (that book in the bible about the world ending)

They'll say something like "And in the end days, the masses will be deceived and satan will be given power".. and they'll accept that instead of common sense, thinking that its some kind of supernatural plot that can transcend all the rules of social dynamics.

I guess what I'm saying is, the religious faction of conspiracy theorists will use angels and demons and horsemen to fill in all the holes in their hypothesis. Its like one giant MadLib. Just fill in the blanks with "Jesus" or "the 7th seal of the apocalypse" or "antichrist", and suddenly they can explain why thousands and thousands of people can all go 250 years without opening their mouths about a conspiracy that wouldn't come to fruition until even their greatest of grandchildren were dead.

In the words of a wise man.... hopeless Unimpressed

Note: One of my immediate relatives is one of the biggest online propagators of this garbage out there. It's truly sad to see what happens to somebody when their entire life is ruled by fear and the victim mentality.
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Re: [Ghetto] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
this site is awesome whe your smoking crack
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Re: [Calvin19] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
I'd like to nominate Genghis Khan's burial as the best conspiracy of all time. Supposedly on the way to the site, the burial party killed anyone or any animal that saw where they went, in order to keep it secret. and then when the burial party returned, they were killed too. now that's a conspiracy.

of course, maybe i am just making this all up to see who believes it...?
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Re: [Colm] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
^ Actually that's exactly what I learned in my world history class my sopho year in college. Wasn't it guarded 24/7 the first decade, too? Just to be even more sure? And something about zomibes and mummies.

Mmmm, brains.
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Re: [annibal] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
You have serious down to earth Kinemortophobia, sister.
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Re: [Calvin19] Chemtrails, HAARP, Apollo, 9/11, Holocaust, 2012 ?
FrownWell, duh! They're after my tasty brain meats!
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Re: [RJmoney] HAARP article
HAARP and charging the ionosphere was originally proposed and demonstrated by Tesla. In his PATENT applications (meaning a working model was produced), Tesla claimed weather and population control capabilities.

Tesla also had death rays, free energy from the ionosphere etc. All of Tesla's manuscripts, patents, possesions, belongings expirements etc were seized by the US govt following his shady death.

Tesla was the smartest man of the 20th century...
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Re: [Calvin19] Reply to Yuri: Glasnost
this is the movie of investigation of 911 tower here
there web site here watch and think abut it.
we all know the there was area 51 but you don't here abut the worker from the site taking abut there work or any thing for the mater
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Re: [airdog07] Reply to Yuri: Glasnost
you DO understand what you are backing, right? as in what these movies are getting at? nothing short of a massive worldwide un-immaginably complex conspiracy to decieve BILLIONS of people.
I'm no flag waving republican, i'm not a bleeding heart god damned hippie, not even a social democrat. but there is little in this world I hate more than people who think that watching a youtube video with misleading tactics, inverse logic, and wrong information makes them smarter than the average joe, or any of the million engineers and scientists in the world. it gives you nothing but a severe self reinforcing delusion. the more ACTUAL evidence is piled up showing the truth, the more you believe it is a bigger and bigger conspiracy. Its not that your stupid, or even ignorant. its just a social disease like Disco and static lines with no pilot chute.

it seems that the people that believe the 9/11 conspiracy also believe in things like chemtrails, microwave oven mind control, and fluoride drinking water population initiatives.
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Re: [Calvin19] Reply to Yuri: Glasnost
number one I'm not conspiracy theories or backing any thing I like watching documenter and I happened up on this one not because I was google abut conspiracy theories

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any of the million engineers and scientists in the world
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which engineers are you taking abut. building with steel structure do not fall in 8 sec. and 10 sec. with out help. who knows who or what I really don't care
there is lot of thing going on where public don't know anything abut dirty bomb nuk. where some one or one's is trying to stop from happening long as they don't blow up my object that is fine with me

P.S. yes I sleep with tinfoils on my head
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Re: [airdog07] Reply to Yuri: Glasnost
Sorry to jump on you, I was not really replying to you personally, just to the population of people who buy into that stuff. the freefall speeds of the towers are much different than actual freefall speeds of anything else. we know this more than anyone, we jump off that shit for fun. the factors involved in the destruction of the towers goes beyond the 9th grade 'when you drop a rock off the 110 story of a building how long does it take to hit the ground (for purposes of your fifteen year old brains, we will ignore atmospheric drag)'
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Re: Apollo
The Mythbusters tackled the Apollo hoax moon myths on their last episode. Pretty solid testing and busting of key arguments I'd say. Anyone disagree with the findings?

Coco
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Re: [dmcoco84] Apollo
dmcoco84 wrote:
The Mythbusters tackled the Apollo hoax moon myths on their last episode. Pretty solid testing and busting of key arguments I'd say. Anyone disagree with the findings?

I have disagreed with several of the Mythbusters results, but not these. (obviously)
they did a solid job of building sets of the actual lunar surface and LM landing site.
way better than anyone else could have.

I would say this pretty much owns any Apollo hoax believer, (again)LaughLaughSlySlyCoolCool

http://mythbustersresults.com/...04-nasa-moon-landing

as for mythbusters,
I do not think they tackled all the angles of the high speed escape pf photography radar, etc. but all in all, they are very good.
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To:Calvin19 RE:Mythbusters
I do not have cable or watch TV but
my dad mentions this show frequently
in our discussions... and sometimes I
disagree with their findings too.

Especially when they examined the idea
of a kid with a handful helium balloons
floating away... sure, it takes more than
just a handful BUT according to them the
quantity needed was just totally absurd.

http://www.clusterballoon.org/
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Re: [Calvin19] Apollo
In reply to:
but all in all, they are very good.

From what I've seen, mythbusters can really be hit or miss. Obviously, sometimes they just don't have the right technological background. I saw an episode of them trying to wipe a hico magstripe card using a big magnet... by waving it 3 inches away or so. That led them to conclude that sources of magnetism strong enough could not be found in a normal environment. Please...
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Re: [stevenm] Apollo
I think that a lot of their stuff they "conclude" cannot be conclusive, but rarely do they have something as "hit or miss" as the Apollo stuff.

F.E.- the pirate canon projectile stuff. they only tested it a few times, at a constant range, etc.

I would say the hit more than they miss, but you know. Angelic
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Re: [Calvin19] Apollo
Also a good thing about Mythbusters: if enough people call them on one of their conclusions, they will retest. They do try to be as accurate as possible. But for all their bg in whatever, stunts and stuff, they really are just glorified laymen in many ways.
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Re: [Calvin19] Apollo
 i know a few of the "higher ups" at Nasa, they've been there for years.. they don't believe we've been to the moon.

P.s. the myth busters luv the cock
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Re: [adrianh] Apollo
I know a few MIT grads, physics professors, and even a few MTV music award winners that believe the moon landings never happened.

Sadly, this is not something that can be argued by your side in any intelligent manner, because its like arguing the flat earth theory that a few far right creationist followers and even some Oscar nominees believe.

I cannot say "the evidence is there" because batshit crazies can't see the writing on the wall. the writing being the physics and scientific findings for the last 500 years and the wall being this beautiful canvas that is existence.

the thing about it is, there is a huge difference between 'belief' and knowing.
creationists/moon hoax believers use fairy tales and fear to conjure what they 'believe' to be real.

Scientists, your average educated, insightful, skeptic person use physics, inquiry, and math to come to educated conclusions for what happened.

this is the fear and love line, what side are you on?

PS (mythbusters)-with a that toasty redhead on the show, they can't be cock lovers.

PPS-do you KNOW these higher ups at NASA? because NASA is kinda crap but its all we got. I'm pretty sure they have some batshit crazies on the payroll.
give him my number, or me his, and I bet with my 5 years of college and a calculator I can school him in basic physics and aeronautical science/engineering even though he probably has a decade at NASA. the government is not watching you, the most advanced secrets they have now will be old news in three years.
Don't be afraid of your government and their technological secrets, they are just as stupid as you are.




this is not really aimed at you, but if you are on the side of your "higher ups" at NASA it can be re-directed mid flight like an M712
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Re: [Calvin19] Apollo
 



the thing about it is, there is a huge difference between 'belief' and knowing.
creationists/moon hoax believers use fairy tales and fear to conjure what they 'believe' to be real.

so, you "believe" we've been to the moon. based on what actual facts?? info provided by the "batshit crazies"?


PPS-do you KNOW these higher ups at NASA? because NASA is kinda crap but its all we got. I'm pretty sure they have some batshit crazies on the payroll.
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Re: [adrianh] Apollo
Hahahahahahahahahaha! *gasp* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Thanks, Adrian, for restoring my believe in the sheer stupidity of people.

Seriously, the gov't could have faked moon landings, to an extent. The actual physics of it would be near impossible to reproduce, sure, but it is possible.

But why, man, why for all that is holy and cheese, would they do it nine times? And fake deaths, and disasters, and mishaps, when all they really wouldv'e had to do is cover up all their mistakes like the Russians we were trying so hard to beat? Seriously, nine times! If our only objective was to fake out all the sheeples of the world, why pretend to do all the experiments?

Wink Oh, I get it, the gov't is so smart. They are smart enough to think about the fact that at the aperture needed to film astronauts, the stars wouldn't be seen. And at the same time, be filming in close to no Gs, to get that awesome effect with the dust. They must have painted the Vomit Comet! I bet if you go take a flight, scrape off a layer, there will be a nice, fake sky underneath.

And, you know, all those civie workers, engineers, astrophysicists, geologists, etc. just went along with it all for shits and giggles.

UnsureUnsure Next you'll tell me that OJ Simpson really DID go to Mars, and Capricorn One was just a crafty coverup!

But yeah, believe what you want. No one can force you to think anything. But a word of advice, to all you conspiracy theorists out there: Kraft puts mind control enzymes in the cheese.

Just so you know.
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Re: [adrianh] Apollo
adrianh wrote:

so, you "believe" we've been to the moon. based on what actual facts?? info provided by the "batshit crazies"?
No, I do not Believe. I KNOW.
In reply to:
PPS-do you KNOW these higher ups at NASA? because NASA is kinda crap but its all we got. I'm pretty sure they have some batshit crazies on the payroll.

actually, it is not all we have. not even close.

(note that any single one of the following 'proves' that the Apollo program succeeded in 1969)

the parabolic dust and rock trajectories in the films (yes, provided by NASA in the early 70s) is not only obviously filmed in a vacuum in 1.622 m/sec^2 acceleration, but filmed alongside the astronauts while they were working during the EVAs. given the largest available vacuum chamber in 1969, or now for that matter, it would have been IMPOSSIBLE, beyond any considerable doubt, to FAKE the video footage at that time. not only did digital photography and cinematography not exists four decades ago, everything NASA gave us is in emulsion film prints or analog tape.

the LLRE, was confirmed independently to have a return on only a few specific places on the moon. (where the USA and Russia sent angle reflectors) now, the two LLREs sent during the Apollo program are verified in their claimed/actual locations on the moon.
this not only was done by mythbusters, but by a half dozen other high power laser observatories throughout the world, in 1970 until now. nothing new.

The soviet moon program, (the only competition on the Moon Race) verified the landings with their telescopic and inteligence gathering equipment. now, being that the space race is one of the few motives the US would have for allegedly faking the Apollo landings, this one is kinda a hard blow.

note that I am not a die hard US patriot, I dislike my government as much as the next bloke. But I am an aerospace student and I love flying, Astronomy, and physics. there was a time I believed in things, one of those things was that the US faked the landings. then I became interested in it, and looked into it. took some courses, and changed my mind after learning what is needed to make an intelligent decision. Belief is not based on intelligence, but on a deep seated need to believe.


(just a cool site to browse through)
http://www.astr.ua.edu/keel/space/apollo.html


PS- for some reason, I really enjoy this stuff. not just learning about it, but arguing with people who are wrong. its nice because there is a wrong and a right here, a correct and an incorrect. not like the rest of this board where it is just a bunch of cynics verse the redbuil crew verse me.

so, cheers.
(and please, hit me back1)
Be Well,
CH
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Batshit Crazies
I had a "southern fundamental christian"
kid in one of my classes who explained
that the earth is exactly 4,328 years old
based on adding up all the years that
were included in the bible. Crazy Unsure

As if there was no earth, life, or religion
prior to the existence of Christianity.

I wanted to laugh like hell and tell him:
"My dad has socks that old" but being
the teacher I had to just nod and say
okay, that is one theory.
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Re: [GreenMachine] Batshit Crazies
Putting the Fun in Fundies....

Someone can walk up to you and say, "I am the only thing that exists in this universe, and you all are just my hallucination."

And good luck arguing with that. Wink
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Re: [GreenMachine] Batshit Crazies
Machine Man,
I always thought it was 6000 years, but i never made it past Genesis when i was reading the good book.

I try to stick with real batshit crazy (9/11 hoax, Apollo, etc), not deep end retards (fundies). (no offense to the mentally challenged or skysurfers)

I found that not only is it impossible to 'convert' a true fundie believer, its morally against my theories.
I can show a batshit that they are wrong via their own 'spiritual' search for truth that they preach.
with a fundie, its not really possible. because their belief comes from a need to believe, not the search for truth.

also, I try not to 'argue' religious beliefs because I have no place for it. in my world, or world, (the real world) things can be explained. but on the level of Xtianity and belief, i cannot comprehend. I cannot and will not tell you there is no god because i do not know. and I will tell you i do not-not believe in her or him or it.

Evolution is a THEORY based on scientific observation

Intelligent Design is a THEORY based on philosophical ideas.

Creationism is a BELIEF based on fictional stories.
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Re: [annibal] Apollo
 
But why, man, why for all that is holy and cheese, would they do it nine times? And fake deaths, and disasters, and mishaps,


could you think of a better way to steal billions of dollars??

In reply to:
Wink Oh, I get it, the gov't is so smart. They are smart enough to think about the fact that at the aperture needed to film astronauts, the stars wouldn't be seen. And at the same time, be filming in close to no Gs, to get that awesome effect with the dust.

let me get this straight, you actually think it would be harder to fake the moon landings than really landing there???? really???? we had the technology to go there, but not to fake it??

They must have painted the Vomit Comet! I bet if you go take a flight, scrape off a layer, there will be a nice, fake sky underneath.

i like where you're going with this.
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Re: [Calvin19] Apollo
In reply to:
LLRE, was confirmed independently to have a return on only a few specific places on the moon. (where the USA and Russia sent angle reflectors) now, the two LLREs sent during the Apollo program are verified in their claimed/actual locations on the moon.

so the russians have been to the moon as well??
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Re: [adrianh] Apollo
adrianh wrote:
let me get this straight, you actually think it would be harder to fake the moon landings than really landing there???? really???? we had the technology to go there, but not to fake it??

Argh!!! Exactly! The technology required to fake it is far more sophisticated than the technology required to get there. All they needed to get there was a cardboard box, a rocket engine, and a lemming with a spacesuit. And a whole lot of duct tape and velcro.

Decades later, the film industry is STILL having difficulties 'faking' things enough to convince even a diaper-wearing, senior discounted, matinee wednesdays audience.

For example.. the semi truck that did a half front flip in the new Batman that Joker was driving? It was EASIER for them to actually close down DOWNTOWN CHICAGO to build a huge lever and ACTUALLY FLIP a real full-sized semi truck end over end (of course, without damaging any buildings, the street, or for that matter killing anybody involved).

Get real... Crazy
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Re: [Calvin19] Apollo
In reply to:
PPS-do you KNOW these higher ups at NASA? because NASA is kinda crap but its all we got. I'm pretty sure they have some batshit crazies on the payroll.
give him my number, or me his, and I bet with my 5 years of college and a calculator I can school him in basic physics and aeronautical science/engineering even though he probably has a decade at NASA.

ill take that bet, you name your wager...

in my corner, base460. nuclear scientist , and thermodynamic doctor.

in yours, calvin19. college kid, with a calculator.

ding ding.
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Re: [Calvin19] Apollo
Off topic, but "batshit crazy" is one of my favorite descriptive terms.Laugh
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Re: [Ghetto] Apollo
Ghetto wrote:
Argh!!! Exactly! The technology required to fake it is far more sophisticated than the technology required to get there. All they needed to get there was a cardboard box, a rocket engine, and a lemming with a spacesuit. And a whole lot of duct tape and velcro.

It's funny, actually. Relatively speaking, the tech needed to get there isn't all that complex. You didn't need a computer that was terribly powerful, but one that was very much tuned to the task at hand.

The Apollo Lunar Module autopilot actually comes as part of Matlab. As a demo. You can run it. It is amusing
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Re: [avenfoto] Apollo
avenfoto wrote:
In reply to:
PPS-do you KNOW these higher ups at NASA? because NASA is kinda crap but its all we got. I'm pretty sure they have some batshit crazies on the payroll.
give him my number, or me his, and I bet with my 5 years of college and a calculator I can school him in basic physics and aeronautical science/engineering even though he probably has a decade at NASA.

ill take that bet, you name your wager...

in my corner, base460. nuclear scientist , and thermodynamic doctor.

in yours, calvin19. college kid, with a calculator.

ding ding.

hehehe... ok, fair enough. but wait one:
but i specifically stated that it had to be a higher up at NASA that "Believes" the Apollo program was faked.
so, no bet.

I KNOW those guys are freaking brilliant (BASE460, the guy is awesome). far more so than i will ever be. to even think that I could even compete with them on any higher physics competition is Ludicrous. and that music sucks.
that aside, hypothetically-
My corner- Me, a dumb college kid that feels strongly about something not worth it with a small bit of schooling in the ways of the force

Your corner-a imaginary guanic NASA engineer that thinks Apollo was faked.

I still think I would win, I saw the movie.



I am just a stupid college kid for that matter.

what i was getting at, is there are things that are IMPOSSIBLE to fake, that I can PROVE to him(if he or she exists) through HIS physics that it cannot be faked in 1969. by no way am I better at math than anyone. I failed College algebra twice. not gonna happen there. but when some *'higher ups' allegedly say it never happened, there is a severe problem with the human race and basic scientific and social balances.


*were these alleged higher ups NASA aerospace engineers, or imaginary mission control janitors with a personal agenda?
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Re: [diablopilot] Apollo
diablopilot wrote:
Off topic, but "batshit crazy" is one of my favorite descriptive terms. Laugh

I heard it for the first time about a year ago, yeah. its a good one.LaughLaughLaugh

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1825469

if there is no definition of Batshit crazy, I think this is a good place to start.
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Re: [adrianh] Apollo
adrianh wrote:
In reply to:
LLRE, was confirmed independently to have a return on only a few specific places on the moon. (where the USA and Russia sent angle reflectors) now, the two LLREs sent during the Apollo program are verified in their claimed/actual locations on the moon.

so the russians have been to the moon as well??

the Russians sent probes there, LANDED THEM THERE before the USA figured out how to take a shit in space.


amature astronomers watched the Spacecraft enter and leave earth orbit, via reflecting optical telescopes, this is not rocket surgery, its rocket science, and when compared to things like the Hadron Super Collider, or short delay slider up heading performance science, its retarded simple stuff.


do you know what the LLRE/LLRR is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/...r_Ranging_Experiment

Attatched is a picture of what the Russians noticed when their intelligence gathering people took a look at the Apollo program. needles to say, red square had a laugh or two.
orion-telescope.jpg
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Re: [Ghetto] Apollo
Ghetto wrote:
The technology required to fake it is far more sophisticated than the technology required to get there. All they needed to get there was a cardboard box, a rocket engine, and a lemming with a spacesuit. And a whole lot of duct tape and velcro.

Don't forget the slide rule and Buzz Aldrins mighty fist of doom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEvR-c60Na4
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Post deleted by yuri_base
 
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Re: [yuri_base] Batshit Crazies
hmm. ok. what about it?
(or are you JUST having fun?Tongue)

easily one can point out discrepancies, but that does not matter.

this would have to have been done is 1969 and before using dark room emulsion photography tricks, not entirely impossible to do, but entirely impossible to do without EVERY PHOTOGRAPHY EXPERT ON THE PLANET NOT CATCHING IT WITHIN THE FIRST WEEK of photo release.

another problem, guanics have to come up with how it could have been faked.

I have a theory;
I think NASA and black opps deciede it would be too hard to fake the photographs the normal way in studios and dark rooms, so they built a spaceship and sent a limited camera crew to Earth's only moon to do an amature film about winning the space race.

really, its the only way to explain it.

give me anything, ANYTHING you see as a discrepancy in the Lunar Apollo program evidence, and IN MY OWN WORDS, I will explain it to your satisfaction.
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Re: [avenfoto] Apollo
and one more thing, 460 is brilliant, smarter and far more educated than I, and with much more life experience.

not to speak for him, and he has not participated in this thread I believe, but, he is a Physicist; he is on my side.
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Re: [adrianh] Apollo
Why, yes, I can think of a better way. It's called ACTUALLY going to war. And taxes. The gov't does it every day. They don't have to fake jack shit to steal everyone's money.

Also, I am a film major I CAN SEE TRICKS USED TO FAKE THE AUDIENCE! They are so heinously easy to catch it's not even funny. CG? Looks so fake and shiny, and not even used then. Double exposures? They always look fake. The funny thing about FAKENESS is it LOOKS FAKE to anyone with a trained eye, and there were so many amazing filmmakers at that time, they would have caught it. Sets look fake. Fake stars look fake. Fake sunlight? Looks FAKE! See where I'm going with this? Just aside from the physics and the math...the actual film would look faked. It's not.

Ever seen Le Voyage Dans La Lune? FAKE! 2001: A Space Odessey? FAKE! Star Trek, Sunshine, Mission to Mars, Red Planet, you name it, even with the modern technology, filmmakers CANNOT fake reality to the point where anyone who knows the trade can be faked. If the best filmmakers can't fake it, how could the American gov't?

You can psych out people who want to be fooled, but for anyone who looks into things? There is NO WAY I am giving the gov't enough credit to do all this shit and still keep it secret, because for all the civilians who scream FAKE there's a gov't employee who is keeping this from the people. I do not think them capable of hushing up enough people to pull this off, including the astronauts.

And seriously, if the Russians had any doubt that we landed on the moon, would they have given up so easily?

Also? A lot of really brilliant people believe a lot of stuff. Like in God. Just saying "look who's on MY side", or "my stick is bigger!" isn't really an argument.

Really all the moon landing fakers do is convince me that they have a lot of respect for the gov't for being able to pull off something so tremendous. It would mean they were/are a lot smarter than they are.

Wink

And, well, I like arguing.Smile Continue.
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Re: [annibal] Apollo
to add to the following point...

annibal wrote:
I do not think them capable of hushing up enough people to pull this off, including the astronauts.

they would need the astronauts to remain quiet. yet, several remained active in various related endeavors. for example, Neil Armstrong headed the University of Cincinnati's Aerospace Engineering dept. these guys ardently believed in space exploration, wrote books, etc.

now, assume it is all a hoax. the same organization that produced astronauts dedicated to maintain the lie, also produced an astronaut that wore a diaper to drive cross country and attack a rival.

how could they inspire such discipiline, and then so little?

oh, and do not forget, the original astronauts were BAD at keeping adulterous affairs quiet.
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Re: [stevenm] Apollo
stevenm wrote:
The Apollo Lunar Module autopilot actually comes as part of Matlab. As a demo. You can run it. It is amusing

people always say stuff like 'my car's dashboard has more computing power than what they took to the moon', and its correct. the equations and problems needed to navigate from the earth to the moon and back are very specific and simple. the only things the computer needed to know what to do were these few calculations from gathering data from a few very primitive radar systems, and a lot of the data had to be hand entered by astronauts. in all reality, the LM nav system was really just an over sized four function-calculator, and instead of a small twelve number numeric display, its output was a larger screen and a few solenoids for engine and thruster control. Grumman Engineering Baby!
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Re: [annibal] Apollo
First let me say this: I agree with you. To fake it would have been very difficult.

However, I am just going to play devil's advocate here. You say that it would have been very easy to spot something fake like that. Well, how would the filmmakers know what a "real" lunar surface, up close and personal, would look like? Spotting camera tricks themselves probably wouldn't be so hard, but if it was staged (and I'm not saying it was), then how could you tell? I mean, I'm not talking about spotting something obvious, like a dog on a string with a fish bowl on its head, but you get the idea.

By the way, the first use of CGI in major cinema was in 1974. It was two-dimensional and took hours to render a 5-second segment despite being godawfully pixelated.

Also: If this were all a massive conspiracy, it would be ridiculously hard to keep the lid on it at the international level. Some of the video from the moon came from a radiotelescope in Australia, which was actually pointed at the moon. So if there was no signal coming, those guys would have probably noticed... Or did the CIA/NSA/FBI/whatever get to the aussies, too?
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Re: [stevenm] Apollo
stevenm wrote:
I am just going to play devil's advocate here. You say that it would have been very easy to spot something fake like that. Well, how would the filmmakers know what a "real" lunar surface, up close and personal, would look like? Spotting camera tricks themselves probably wouldn't be so hard, but if it was staged (and I'm not saying it was), then how could you tell? I mean, I'm not talking about spotting something obvious, like a dog on a string with a fish bowl on its head, but you get the idea.

Also: If this were all a massive conspiracy, it would be ridiculously hard to keep the lid on it at the international level. Some of the video from the moon came from a radiotelescope in Australia, which was actually pointed at the moon. So if there was no signal coming, those guys would have probably noticed... Or did the CIA/NSA/FBI/whatever get to the aussies, too?

Well, the thing is, it's not just the "tricks" you learn to spot, but also the things like sets. It is impossible to show any sort of open space in a soundstage or a studio, and they would have had to use one. I have never seen a movie, black and white or in color, that has been able to fool my eye into believing that a light set was really sunlight. There is a difference in it, like watching film vs. video. Most people I know wouldn't be able to tell the difference, but there are many clues if you have a good understanding of what to look for.

The perspective required to show the surface of the moon as accurately as it was shown...there would be clues. The impact craters?

All this would also require that they would HIRE or RECRUIT people to build, design, etc. Would they keep this secret, too? It's not just Aussies, it would be really talented filmmakers! And filmmakers? Yeah, they don't keep things like this secret.

If anyone can give me a name of an artist who worked in the coverup, or was good enough to pull it off by fooling their peers, I might take it seriously enough to stop laughing about this whenever it's brought up. Wink
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Re: [Calvin19] Apollo
 
In reply to:
the Russians sent probes there, LANDED THEM THERE before the USA figured out how to take a shit in space
.


so, you get my point??? just because there are llre/llrr "reflector thingies" on the moon does not prove that we actually landed there, as you stated earlier.
i never said whe couldn't shoot shit at the moon.
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Re: [Ghetto] Apollo
Argh!!! Exactly! The technology required to fake it is far more sophisticated than the technology required to get there. All they needed to get there was a cardboard box, a rocket engine, and a lemming with a spacesuit. And a whole lot of duct tape and velcro.

you mean the technology made available to the public??
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Re: [annibal] Apollo
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Re: [annibal] Apollo
In reply to:
Also: If this were all a massive conspiracy, it would be ridiculously hard to keep the lid on it at the international level. Some of the video from the moon came from a radiotelescope in Australia, which was actually pointed at the moon. So if there was no signal coming, those guys would have probably noticed... Or did the CIA/NSA/FBI/whatever get to the aussies, too?

they bounced the signals of the reflector thingies,
"llre/llrr"
i don't think alot of people would have to be involved in the cover up. afew astronauts, some higher uppers, and a few janitors.
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Re: [adrianh] Apollo
adrianh wrote:
In reply to:
the Russians sent probes there, LANDED THEM THERE before the USA figured out how to take a shit in space
.


so, you get my point??? just because there are llre/llrr "reflector thingies" on the moon does not prove that we actually landed there, as you stated earlier.
i never said whe couldn't shoot shit at the moon.

yes, I get your point. but there are now 5 (five) LLRRs on the moon, two placed by the Lunokhod (only one still functioning) three by Apollo 11, 14, and 15.

they "lost" Lunokhod 1 after a short time, as in Russia does not know where it is.
L2 still returns a signal.

yeah, ok, your point is iffy. but its not even a discrepancy in the actual event, just a paranoid theory that ultra-accurate LLREs can be placed without humans actually doing it on site. (of course, the LLREs on 14/15 were very VERY large powerful reflectors. they did need humans to place them. but I have no proof of that, other than those two LLRRs return the strongest laser signals.

but that's all you have, really. Adrianh, you have brought nothing to the table but rumor.
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Re: [adrianh] Apollo
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Re: [Calvin19] Apollo
 
In reply to:
but that's all you have, really. Adrianh, you have brought nothing to the table but rumor.[/quote
]

you are correct- it's very hard to prove something never happened,when it never really did.
you're the on in charge of providing the proof, which only includes some grainy ass video that was prob filmed in new mexico. seriously, where did the fucking golf club come from??? the lunar rover, or more likely, the back of armstrongs car that was parked in the dark desert? arrmstong made one hell of a drive with no practice swings, a huge suit, and very little gravity. have you ever golfed?? the shit isn't easy even after hundreds of swings in a controled environment such as earth. and that's wearing nothing but shorts and sandles. if you've never golfed, go to the driving range...you'll get my point.
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Re: [adrianh] Apollo
That post just convinced me you're just shitting us. Because it reads like satire.

Anyway, here's what a friend of mine has to say on the subject:
In reply to:
Why people believe the landing was faked....

I'd posit religion.

Now, I'm not talking about Christianity, Islam, or any of the organized or disorganized bodies of thought that I often use when I say, "religion." But to me, belief is the realm of the spirit, mind, and body fused to believe certain things about the way the world is. It may, or may not, be connected to an entity known to some as God. Either way, we have to ask why we believe in things we do not and can not have personal and/or communal and/or global experience of.

There is no way that any human being can learn and know everything. At least, no way known to humankind at this time. So, some things we have accept on less than positive, personally known, experience. Or I could say we, "take on faith," even if captial-f Faith is not involved in any way. A similar process occurs for that which any person or group disbelieves, also.

The Sun: A great big ball of hydrogen and helium caught in a diminishing loop of fission and fusion? Or a conveyance of a deity? Or the spirit of a solar system, which may take physical form as an Avatar of itself? ( )

How does a person judge with certainty between these two diametrically opposite poles? (Aside from one side looking at the other and saying, "That's stupid!" Which solves nothing other than reinforcement of one's belief and disbelief system.)

What is evident to me, though, is that some people believe that we landed on the moon. A much smaller (probably almost insignificant) minority believes we didn't land on the moon. Either way, the key element is: belief. If you'll indulge me for a second, and posit that the sum of an individual or group's beliefs is their "Religion," then I'd like to take a Theological tack to the question.

In looking at the dimensions of belief, I find the Wesleyan Quadrilateral (applied loosely) to be quite helpful. The four elements, for those unfamiliar: Tradition, Reason, Experience, Scripture.

My own *very loose* application of this would apply as follows:

1) What does Tradition say about whether we landed on the Moon? Well, at this point, there is certainly "Tradition" in the hoax community. It would be interesting to find out: when was the first verifiable report about the landings being a hoax or deception of some sort? There is certainly reams upon reams of verifiable tradition that we landed there. As a working hypothesis, I'd say Tradition generally holds we landed.

2) Reason. Which is more reasonable: That x amount of hours and time were spent developing the technology that enabled us to land? Or that x effort went into a deception? I think Occam's Razor suggests that the effort to deceive, for questionable or unknown reasons, is a needless multiplication. So Reason tells me we landed. (Not to mention that the Science of it all fits as far as anyone can prove beyond a reasonable doubt / virtually certain doubt...)

3) Experience. My experience tells me I've never worked at NASA / rode in an Apollo capsule or LEM / etc. But it also tells me that Conspiracies are generally found, and that the larger the scale of people directly involved in a conspiracy, the more quickly they are discovered. In short, a Conspiracy that would involve a moon landing hoax would yield people with impeccable credentials and verifiable information who would come forth for various reasons and confess their part in it. At the risk of a flame, something like what Bob Lazar claims, only true. So, what experiences I've had says: It's real.

4) "Scripture." In Christianity, what is referred to as Scripture is known (even if disputed.) What would be the Scripture of the moon landing? I could point to the physical records and data which exist, if you want to read reams and reams of it. Any of us could go to NASA's website and look at LOTS of images... enough to make anyone rational believe.

Me, I accept Gene Kranz' most excellent book, Failure is Not an Option. One *heck* of a good read, as well as incidentally detailing his role as a Flight Director at NASA. I'd pretty much take his account as Gospel, adjusting for what he does and doesn't know. His opinion of Chris Kraft (sp?), NASA currently, etc. are opinions. He states the facts of his involvement with Gemini and Apollo, and I believe it. Or Jim Lovell. Or Buzz Aldrin. Or any of the multitudes of people who've recorded their direct experiences with putting men (sadly, no women yet ) on the Moon.

(You could also take The Right Stuff, etc.)

So, a non-deistic theological view tells me that in Tradition, Reason, Experience, and Scripture: We landed.

Anyone who *doesn't* believe we did, I'd love to see their explanation which can account for all four of the above, similarly.

Oh, and I happen to believe the first bit about the Sun by the same standards, too. Doesn't say thing one about who Created it, if any.
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Re: [annibal] Apollo
Some people will just stick to their beliefs regardless how much scientific evidence you throw their way. They'll just stick to their guns simply because this is what they are used to- in psychology this is known as the Belief Perseverance Phenomenon.

For instance, some people still believe that there are supernatural, paranormal, invisible flying creatures living by the big E in Mexico, despite being given an incredible amount of definite, conclusive scientific proof of the contrary.

Steve
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Re: [adrianh] Apollo
adrianh wrote:
you're the one in charge of providing the proof,

but we/NASA already did. lunar samples, LLRR, independent optic telescope tracking, independent radio receivers, UNFAKEABLE physics in all footage from the moon landings, ~20 astronauts, 100-2,000,000 people that would have to keep quiet (depending on what conspiracy theory you believe), a few trillion dollars that needs to be accounted for, i could go on.
In reply to:
which only includes some grainy ass video
does not matter. all you need to prove it is watching how fast certain things move. such as a rag dangling from an astronauts suit as he bounces around, it atmo it would have atmospheric drag. in the video it is moving at full speed with no signs of atmo drag. screw that the astronaught is bouncing in 1/6g, all we need to show they are on the moon is the flag flapping from zero atmosphere as they place it in the dirt, and that rag hanging from Emmit Schmidt's suit.
In reply to:
seriously, where did the fucking golf club come from??? the lunar rover, or more likely, the back of Armstrong car that was parked in the dark desert? Armstrong made one hell of a drive with no practice swings, a huge suit, and very little gravity. have you ever golfed?? the shit isn't easy even after hundreds of swings in a controlled environment such as earth. and that's wearing nothing but shorts and sandles. if you've never golfed, go to the driving range...you'll get my point.

hahaha... Apollo 14. "miles and miles and miles..." my main man, Alan Shepard. he used a sample gathering scoop handle. (they cannot bend over in the pressure suits) he pulled off the scoop part of the handle and pushed on a 6 iron head that he had brought with him from earth. that's how he got the club. only two golf balls though, and the first one was shanked badly, the second he got a hold of, USING ONE ARM, and sent it "miles and miles and miles", but in all reality, probably only a few hundred meters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdqBL5pdRT8
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Re: [adrianh] Apollo
adrianh wrote:
Argh!!! Exactly! The technology required to fake it is far more sophisticated than the technology required to get there. All they needed to get there was a cardboard box, a rocket engine, and a lemming with a spacesuit. And a whole lot of duct tape and velcro.

you mean the technology made available to the public??

the most advanced technology, ESPECIALLY for cinemagraphic special effects, is top secret. but NOT BY THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT. they are the trade secrets and ideas inside big companies.


you should not be afraid of the government. they really are not that smart.
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Re: [Calvin19] Apollo
  we'll just have to agree to disagree. one day the truth will come out and i will be awaiting apologies. until then, keep your minds closed.
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Re: [adrianh] Apollo
adrianh wrote:
we'll just have to agree to disagree. one day the truth will come out and i will be awaiting apologies. until then, keep your minds closed.
you know, Adrian, I would have let it go just like that, agreed to disagree, had you not added that last comment about closed minds.

first off, as a man of science I must concede that I COULD be wrong. I must offer that.
with that said, I believe that it opens my mind to anything.

I had a problem once, not quite a year ago, arguing with people via facebook sites on a very scary problem I encountered that I could not explain, and neither could anyone else.
http://www.youtube.com/...n1UEv2PIzl4&NR=1

it made me afraid, because there was no explanation for it. and in some ways, I still do not have a definite/irrefutable explanation.
I think it is either static electricity from the moons huge charge/build up on the suit of astronaut passing by, OR, more likely, a discharge of gases from the suits environment system. it also could be that the astronaut just grazed it with his arm as he bounced by. but it really did make me wonder. the footage is authentic, no doubt.
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Re: [adrianh] Apollo
In reply to:
arrmstong

It was Shepard.

In reply to:
made one hell of a drive

He took a short one handed stab at it.

In reply to:
with no practice swings

The 'miles and miles' ball was the fourth one, he hit dirt with his first two attempts.

Y'know, it's your incredible attention to detail that has me thinking you might just be right...
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Re: [jakee] Apollo
Smile Wink Tongue Laugh
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Re: [GreenMachine] Apollo
do you know what really scares me?

when people have such strong opinions, or in this case 'belief', in something they have absolutely no idea about.
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Re: [adrianh] Apollo
adrianh wrote:
we'll just have to agree to disagree. one day the truth will come out and i will be awaiting apologies. until then, keep your minds closed.

Adrianh, can I ask you for a few reasons why you are convinced Apollo never succeeded?
I understand you are outnumbered, specifically in this forum.

one of the reasons i got into these conspiracy theories is my respect for the mindset of the 'hoaxers'. they disagree with me, yes, but they also disagree with something that is the mainstream viewpoint and I like that.
its not the reason we BASE jump but it is one of them for at least me, doing something that for most popular theory should not be done.

so, what I am saying is, I like the audacity it takes to argue something from your side. I just think that beautiful mindset can be of much better use elsewhere in humanity.
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Re: [jakee] Apollo
 
In reply to:
Y'know, it's your incredible attention to detail that has me thinking you might just be right...


i haven't put much research into this matter, close to none. i've maybe watched a total of 30 seconds of the videos, and half of that was posted on this forum. so, thanks for the entertainment.LaughLaugh
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Re: [adrianh] Apollo
Friends of yours?

http://www.youtube.com/user/doowop62

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhRNl68t5qs

The second is as perfect an example I can find of remotely intelligent people that have seen too many conspiracy movies, and think they know what things "should" look like. this guy is admittedly not educated in aviation OR meteorology. An involuntary castration is the only solution.
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Re: [Calvin19] Apollo
  actually, he does look vaguely familiar, perhaps i sold him acid back in the early high school years.
hey, Tizzy mind doing some research on some of this stuff?
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Re: [adrianh] Apollo
 " Newly restored photographs of the moon's dark south pole, taken by lunar orbiters in 1967, were released this week in anticipation of NASA's planned Thursday launch of two new probes that will investigate the region in search of underground ice."


the government must be running low on war money.