Basejumper.com - archive

So guys,

Just theoretically speaking, what do you think would be appropriate compensation if your friend accidentally forgot he'd packed slider down and told you to go ahead and take his rig on an 11-second delay?

I mean, seriously, what would he owe me now? I remind you that on the above poll, multiple answers ARE allowed.

Of course (theoretically speaking), you should probably consider he warned me ahead of time that he was half drunk when he packed the 245 canopy into a 305 container, and couldn't remember 100% if he'd connected all the risers or not.

So in all fairness, just how indebted is he to me? How much beer does he owe me to soothe my aching back and neck? Or do I _theoretically_ have only myself to blame and should stop bitching about my mistakes?

Of course, this is all just a mind experiment. I'm sure nobody would ever do ANYTHING like this in the real world.

I say you owe your friend a new canopy.

Hi Inzite,

Your post is amusing and that's great however I am struggling to believe that an 11 second slider down opening will only result in a sore neck and some sore joints unless of course, you are understating the injuries. I imagined the result would have been substantial bodily damage and catastrophic equipment damage.

Please confirm - can one really get away with a full on terminal opening slider down? (Hypothetically of course)

Regards

John

Hopefully I'll never know if it's survivable or not. I've heard rumors of survivable terminal slider down openings, even without damaging the gear (though I've never seen one, and tend to agree with you that such a jump would nine times out of ten break lines, tear canopies, and probably result in some degree of body damage).

In all honesty, I think my buddy did pack the slider up. And I'm 90% certain he was half joking about drinking and possibly forgetting to attach the risers. He'd already dragged the rig all the way up to the exit point, but was uncomfortable with jumping the pack job himself. And I just couldn't say no to a packed rig at the exit point. I jumped, he walked down.

Like I said, I think the slider _was_ initially up. But I never saw it traveling down, and the videocamera doesn't show it descending. If it was up at any point, it didn't stay there for long.

Only after I landed and complained to my buddy about his half-drunk slammer packjobs did he comment "you know, I might have packed it slider down".

For his terminal jumps, my buddy doesn't roll the nose and he doesn't use direct control. Also, I was jumping with a 37" ZP pilot chute (usually I use a 36" F-111 PC for subterminal/terminal jumps).

For the curious, you can take a look at the video and judge for yourself at http://217.172.55.13/...08/will-jump-073.mpg

I knwo 2 jumpers that got away without injuries on terminal jumps with slider down.

Hey inzite,
looks like large mesh slider, with a vented canopy on terminal jumps.
personally i'm not surprised you had an opening like this. especially not using direct control.
I think a small mesh slider combined with direct control might have helped.
I was just out at itw in feb, jumping a flik 266vtec with small mesh, 36v pilot chute, and had no problems.
I also have a friend who jumps his blackjack slider up, large mesh and every once in a while he get hammered like you did.
even on subterminal jumps.
just my 0.2 cents
Gary

Yeah, that's my general conclusion as well. I'm 95% sure the canopy was packed slider up and the combination of a large pilot chute, terminal delay, large mesh, and no direct control combined to create a very hard opening.

Or, if it was packed slider down, I'm very lucky.

Either way, no harm done, the canopy's in fine condition, and other than some killer bruises and a lower back that feels really "funky" I'm okay.

Lessons learned: Never trust this guy's packjobs anymore, use direct control on terminal jumps (I always have on my slider-up packjobs), and use a small mesh slider on terminal jumps.

What I'm much more concerned about is why so few people are voting for the Swedish triplets option in the above poll!!! Come on....I'm trying to guilt this guy into buying me some treatment!!!

Gaper, hello....

I had a slammer opening like that one time, I couldn't jump for a month because my back was so messed up. Sucks, but my back feels fine now, and hopefully yours will too! I'm wondering though, why did you hike to the exit point of a terminal wall without your rig?

You mean "why did I hike to the exit point of a terminal wall without my rig twice".

1) I hate carrying rigs up the trail.
2) I hate packing.
3) On the second jump, I was supposed to shoot still photographs.
4) Because "somebody" would have had to drive the car down from the the trailhead to the landing area.

And the most important reason of all.....

5) On the first jump, I was supposed to accompany the hot brunette from Paris back down.

In the end, I never did actually get to walk back down. Every single time I went to the exit, I either jumped my own rig, or I jumped the rig of one of the guys who decided to go back down.

You mean you jumped a rig that you didn't pack yourself without taking two minutes to pop it open and just check how it was set up and how the pack job looked? Is your life not important enough to spend just two minutes making sure it's all good?

That's the kind of thing that'll kill ya. Dumb man, just plain dumb.

Max

A friend of mine did 21 seconds off Kjerag slider down, was fine apart from a slight sore neck from a smack from his chest strap. Blew about 6 lines out the canopy mind including a brake line. Didn't even realise it was slider down til we got it back to the packing area and slider was held down by the clip.

He is well 'ard though.

I think jumping anyone else's pack job that you haven't personally witnessed being packed is fucking retarded.

Of course that's after watching a friend snivel past me at 200 ft, when his buddy told him the rig was packed slider down.

He was wrong.

I think, we need one more poll option.

Why did you jump a pack job that your buddy was afraid jumping?

.....sounds not so smart for me.

I dont think its retarded at all. Ive jumped friends pack jobs I never watched and i trusted them to open fine and they did.

ask jimmy H about his slider down jump off an 1850 ft A

The obvious solution is a penalty PCA. Next time you both hike up there he brings a slider down rig and you PCA him off a terminal wall.

Dude... I'm with Max on this one, thats just plain dumb. To check the risers you wouldn't even need to open the packjob! OK, maybe you mean the frenchlinks, not the threerings... And besides, if the person who prepared a life saving device is unsatisfied with the work, I don't think they should have let anybody else use it. I think you owe eachother new jumping buddies.

I have jumped multiple rigs that I have not seen packed.

1st one was my first BASE jump.

A bunch (20+) were by a Malaysian BASE packer (packed for the malaysian military base jumping team)that I watched 2 times and had him adjust his pack jump for opening softness

and the last time was when I used my Local Riggers BASE Rig for a 300ft jump.

Its all about trust, at least with me. Do I normally jump others Packjobs, no. But those I do, I trust.

I totally thought this was going to be a thread about Gaper suing the Park Service . . .







Inzite, you owe HIM beer for a packjob

good on ya dude...

"those who cannot trust, cannot themselves be trusted"

Agreed. Potentially very dumb.

Now that you mention it, though, the rig was actually opened up on the ride up to the trailhead by my buddy. He checked that the packjob looked "okay" and that at least two risers were attached correctly (he may have checked all four, but he never told me about the other two).

Even if he hadn't opened the rig, I probably still would have jumped it. My buddy's the kind of guy who REGULARLY decides to climb down even when everything looks good. So the fact that he didn't want to jump the packjob didn't really phase me.

You're right that I could have easily spent two minutes to inspect the rig myself. I probably should have. However, you have to draw the line at double and triple-checking your equipment somewhere (I remember you yourself looked at me funny once when I insisted on unpacking, inspecting, and repacking my PC before every jump).

I decided I was happy jumping the rig without popping the pins, as I thought the chance he had actually forgotten to attach the risers was VERY small. Plus, popping the pins on an already packed rig (and disturbing the packjob) creeps me out. My gut instinct makes me want to leave well enough alone. It's packed. Trust it.

That is, of course, just gut instinct. I appreciate your comment, and in the future I think I'll actually pop the pins and check it myself if I have doubts. Still, it's a balancing act between the risk of disturbing the packjob vs. the very slim chance of catching a major malfunction. About the only malfunctions you can catch from just opening the packjob would be:

1) Unattached riser(s)
2) Slider incorrectly stowed

If I were to ever open my own packjob and find either of those, it would be time for me to QUIT base jumping. And if I ever opened a friend's packjob and found one of those, I would find myself saying a quick goodbye to a jumping partner.

Of course I checked the threerings. I checked everything that can be checked without popping the pins (threerings, cutaway, straps, PC, bridle, canopy/bridle connection, etc.). What I didn't check were the connections between the risers and the lines, I didn't check if the slider was properly located, and I didn't check if the lines were properly routed (this would have required a repack).

Two of these could have been checked by popping the pins, but I figured that if my buddy was comfortable letting me jump it, then I could be 99.9% certain everything was in good shape. Plus, my buddy's the kind of guy who commonly decides not to jump based just on a "feeling", even if all indicators look good. I've seen it so many times that it doesn't bother me any more.

Shit, this conversation's getting too serious. I already feel like I'm not gonna get my three hookers out of him.

*Still hoping for a keg of Guiness, though*

Dammit! I was afraid someone was gonna bring this up!!! And he was even nice enough to carry the rig all the way to the exit for me.

But after an opening like that, I definitely don't owe him any imported beer. Hell, even a six pack of Natty Ice would be pushing it. How about a pitcher of Pepsi mixed with rubbing alcohol?

Oh man... You'd have issue with some previous Power Tower Tuesday "Boogies" then.

Now that's a good one.

Ahhhhhh the classic penalty PCA... My first real base jump was one of these.. I never made the offending error(s) again. Others, yes, but the same one(s), no.

It's like a good spanking, and everyone needs a good spanking every now and then, right?

edit: I voted for the 3 identical twin hookers, so our friend can get his spanking

You gotta factor in the geographic area of the OP, and the fact that things which we take as common sense or 'no-brainers' (like not trusting sketchy packjobs) are considered standard practice in other parts of the world where higher fatality rates are no big deal.