Basejumper.com - archive

I live in a different world than most of you. When I was a boy the first job I had was Liquor Boy. You'd call the store for a pint or a case and I'd jump on my bicycle and deliver it right to your door. (And thanks for the tip, and the nice drunken MILFs I encountered along the way).

In the same vein, you guys are going off the rails . . .

When Theresa Tran was killed BASE jumping in 1995 we tried to find a reason. When Gary Dawson was killed in 1996 we tried to find a reason. When Bob "Bromo" Neely in 1997 was killed we tried to find a reason. When Josh McVay was killed in 1999 we tried to find a reason. And when Jan Davis was killed in 1999 we tried to find reason.

And it goes on and on . . .

Our brothers at (cough) USPA are reporting a stellar low for skydiving fatalities in 2007 by leaving out those who died in airplane crashes. But in both sports, skydiving and BASE, the simple fact remains someone woke up one morning and decided to go jump – and it killed them.

How we can so quickly abandon someone like Rich Heaton! At some point in all our BASE careers we are all Richard Hilton. Richard is dead because he saw in BASE the same thing we all did, but so far we've simply been luckier.

Back in the day Rich Stein and I would laugh when someone was killed BASE jumping as we considered it being killed doing something else. The joke was in order to be a BASE jumper you had to be alive when it was over, and if you weren't than you were doing something else . . .

But once the BASE Fatality List hit 25, than 50, than 75, and than a 100, we had to rethink what was funny. And you know what? There's not a thing funny about it anymore. We ran out the joke rope long enough that we don't have that luxury anymore.

But what really brought me back, is the guy who said "this was only a hiking incident" THAT'S BULLSHIT TO A MEGA-DEGREE.

I'm not sure what the right thing to do is. But I know for sure we either failed Richard or Richard failed us. And no matter what - the responsibility lands on us. And you can't pretend to wish it away.

In a hundred years no one will remember the squabbles of today. Fixed object jumping will be a normal course of affairs. But we have to live with ourselves in the here and now. So I'll leave it to you. When you look at your mug while shavings in the morning what do you see?

NickD
BASE 194

Nick,

Are you serious?

With the knowledge about base these days, and - to a certain extent - normal sound thinking, Richard should still be alive. It serves nothing to state what you did in the past in this case, with all respect. In fact, I think you still live in the past.

Ronald

PS: I started 12 years ago. and I am not sure anybody will remember me, or you, in 100 years time.

Oddly enough, I was recently thinking
it had been a while since NickDG had
posted anything... and here you are.

Usually I really enjoy your posts...
but this one was no nugget. First,
I thought you'd been MIA since you
are busy with college.

Then and Than are homonyms

When a drunk driver careens into a
tree and dies who failed? Him? Us?
The auto industry? Budweiser?

I know I have not been around long
but I am having trouble following you.

Nonetheless, welcome back dude &
I hope you are acing your classes!

If BASE were about luck alone, I'd never have gotten into it. Sometimes we're smart, sometimes we're lucky, sometimes we're smart and lucky. But to ascribe to pure bad luck the outcome of what seems to have been a night solo into an unfamiliar gorge in the middle of winter having been obviously drunk not long before? Wow, that's a stretch.


Bullshit. Are you suggesting that if you ever die jumping, that's our responsibility? Or are you suggesting that Richard was somehow less responsible for his personal safety than you are?

 

hey Nick

could u make your rants a little shorter, its not like there ever important

 
I don't buy the hiking comment, and this is why. I just came back from Moab where I took a six day Wilderness First Responder course. My brain still hurts. Those young Doc's are still very proud of there Latin. Why? Because it's a part of base jumping and I should have done it a long time ago. The guy that forgot to hook up his Shrivel flap. That was a rigging error. Rigging is part of base. The guy that died in the river. Escape and evasion is part of base. A guy died climbing down to the exit point. Hiking is part of base. People have died because no one had the gear or knowledge to pull them off the wall after they got hung up. Climbing is part of base. I'm not saying that the guy in France could have been saved but in the future some one else might be. Dealing with injuries is part of base and that's why I took this first course.

Failing to deal with the objective dangers of the environment that our sport takes us into is by definition a base fatality. I didn't know this guy and none of us really know what happened. The only person that was there isn't talking. I once weathered a five day arctic storm with out a sleeping bag. All I'm saying is that it can be done. Just for the record it sucked ass but I still have all my little pinky tows.

I'm sorry but I just get really sick of the attitude that some of the young jumpers are bringing with them to the sport. There is more to this sport then you see in the videos.

Lee

Obviously it wouldn't be a skydiving fatality if you die in a car crash whilst drunk driving back from the DZ. Two separate occasions, when one activity stopped and the other started.

However, wouldn't it be a mountaineering fatality if someone died of exposure in the Andes, having been caught out with the weather without the appropriate equipment? Isn't the expedition still "live" until you're all safely back? Isn't part of the challenge knowing when to take everything (and move slowly) versus travelling light and fast?

The judgement in making the choice - given the temperature, wind, light, knowledge of the path etc etc, - are all an integral part of the jump. We're only having this debate because:

1) It never needed to have happened (but then, a lot fall into this bucket)
2) What we perceive as the dangerous part (the jump and landing) appeared to have happened uneventfully
3) The general public and media see "BASE-related fatality" and instantly think of what it isn't (which is probably what most people are worried about)

I've never been to TF, but I think the BASE Association idea is a good one; if only to coordinate with the local community, put waymarks in place on the path etc etc

welcome back.

this fatality is a direct result of a BASE jump. and we can learn from it. BASE is what placed him at the bottom of the canyon in the first place, denying the significance of that fact isn't going to help anyone.

sucks all the way around.

I disagree. denying the significance of the fact that he disregarded all protocols is not going to help anyone.
Take care,
space

Nick
News Flash everyone Die's

BUt not everyone wants to die an old man saying remember when

I remember when I used to do an once of Blow a week, bang 4 diffrent girls, and stil manage to get in 2 flicks . why because I still do

well let me tell u when , that stops happening for me, and i start
saying remember when Im going to start pulling real low and I mean really low.

go big or go home

 
Reminds me of a question my skydiving instructor repeatedly asked me to clarify the boundaries of personal responsibility, "Who is responsible for YOU on YOUR jump??" Yes, if I were a TF local I would sleep soundly in my bed every night knowing this incident was not my responsibility.

theres a new generation of BASE now Nick, the Maggot generation remember.
And we kids dont want to hear any whining .
people dont respect you because your old, but they will respect you for being a pirate

This is a discussion about semantics. . . . and education / learning. . . . . about thought processes. . . . . . . and about life in general.

Whilst any fatality is a tragic event, no matter who is involved or how the incident occurred, we should take the opportunity to learn from the situation.

The learning from this incident is not about BASE jumping per se. It is about ones desire to pursue an activity in less than favourable conditions and a less than suitable time without communicating to relevant people. It is about outdor survival skills. It is about the human frustration of having experience and knowledge in hindsight instead of foresight.

From the information available, this person did not die during his BASE jump, but due to exposure afterwards. He was a BASE jumper. He did do a BASE jump. He walked away. We should honour his memory both as a fellow jumper and human being. We should learn from his experience - and especially his decision making processes. A part of any decision making process is collecting information. And then using that information wisely.

He did not die BASE jumping and should not be included on the fatality list. If he had chosen to take a walk that night without jumping and got lost, the outcome would have been the same.

As jumpers, we can all learn from the experience and keep ourselves safer in the future. Not ony whilst BASE jumping, but camping, trekking, hiking, etc.

You can give a million examples / metaphores / similes / etc of why this is or is not a BASE accident. What type of accident is each one below?

- Rock climber bitten by a snake on the way to his car.
- A surfer run over by a boat whilst having a dip after her surf.
- A cyclist hit by a car whilst waiting off the side of the road.
- A "tourist" who chooses to travel to a country that is war torn (and he did not know).
- A soldier who parachutes into enemy territory and gets shot after he lands.
- A BASE jumper who wants to make the highest altitude jump in the world and does not take any thermal protection.
- A guy that gets deliberately pushed off the edge prior to making a jump.
- etc.

r.e. the mountaineering example. As soon as you start making the journey on the mountain, you are climbing a mountain. Whilst ever you are on the mountain, it is still mountaineering. Exposure is to mountaineering what wind is to a BASE jump.

The BASE jumping journey is about the gear and psych before / during after. It is about the time from when you don your gear until you chuck it in your stash bag after you land. All the other stuff is other activities that help you participate in BASE jumping. They are integral to the sport and help you participate. But they are not the sport. They should be a part of your planning and they can influence the jump itself. But they are not the jump.

Anyway, the key point is that no matter what you do, you have got to do some potential problem analysis and do something proactive about resolving those problems. That may include the powerful option of saying no. If you don't do this with anything in life, you have a higher chance of getting into trouble.

You know that old saying, 'Opinions are like arse holes, everyones got one'.
I used to think a Base Jump started with the exit and finished with a safe landing. As time has passed, my philosophy has changed. Now the Jump starts on the route out and finishes when I am back at home with a beer in my hand. Everything between has been part of the jump and should be planned for accordingly. In my mind if someone dies on any part of this due to insufficient planning and preperation , then they died on the jump. Just my opinion.................

Fucking good to see you back here, I havent posted in a whiles...
In my eyes, a BASE jump starts the minute you think about jumping, and ends when you make it home, and crack a beer.

It's easy to think about worst case scenarios, and entirely forget the big picture; the "what if my parachute doesn't open" can become the big "what if?," and the making it home becomes just a formality...

I don't believe i've met anyone who would decide to " go take a hike" hours past dark, just for fun. i have however found myself in some interisting situations after making a "sucessful" jump.

Condolences to Richards friends, and family...
~J

i think the jump starts when you jump off the top rail, and ends when you land, however that may be. I think the hike starts when you throw your stashbag on your back and start walking the trail.

sure it was related to base jumping because he had to hike out of where he landed.

the jump doesnt continue when you are driving home speeding and passing people on the shoulder while you blow lines off your dashboard. If you crash doing this, than you had a car accident.

duh! that was easy!

I think the thread might be getting a bit off track...

various jumpers have offered whether or not this was a BASE accident. I simply do NOT believe we get that luxury.

for example, it matters not what WE think, rangers in the NP's will continue to arrest us.

what really counts are the views of the outside public and THEIR reaction. they do not see us individually. they see us as a group. our differences pass unnoticed by them. yet they have the power of the ballot box to end jumping.

NickDG says we failed Richard. I think we failed ourselves. if we want sites like this to remain open, if we want to open other sites and use TF as an example, we need to find ways to be more proactive in preventing such incidents.

a visible set of unenforceable guidelines would let the public understand we care. they then have some basis to understand if someone was acting relatively careful or reckless.

I also think we ALL should be careful about the image we present. publicity is a double edged knife. it cuts both ways. it attracts attention to our activity, impresses folks, and makes jumpers feel special. it also attracts the unprepared. it motivates those unwilling to put in much effort.

we as a group failed to convey to Richard ALL the required information. sure, much is common sense. sure it may not technically be part of the jump itself. I still don't think Richard (or any other BASE jumper) ever plans on contacting a local TF hiking club...

if we fail to learn from this and fail to moderate public sentiment, we will eventually fail to keep this site open to unfettered daytime jumping. we will lose an example to open new sites. IF that happens, it might be after many here stop jumping regularly. it may prove to be no big inconvenience to you, but a newer set of jumpers might wonder how/why we screwed the pooch...

The fruits of hard work willing, I'll start my BASE career soon. That said, I'm not yet a shareholder and don't get to comment. But I am rambunctious youth (climber, backcountry skier, skydiver, SCUBA diver, triathlete, mountain biker nut job, and I drive US highways). So I'm going to play the role of critical thinker and ask a question:

What if Richard had been hiking the canyon, scouting the landing area prior to his jump, when he had succumbed to the elements? What if he'd been found with his unjumped rig in his stash bag on his back?

Does this semantic shift make an angstrom of difference?

~ topher

I won't try to answer your question, but I will say that I look forward to more of your posts. That was great use of words. You'll make a great BASE jumper.

Generally, I would say when your feet and your canopy are on the ground the jump is over. The adrenaline is present, the fear has subsided, and your heart rate is beginning to decline. But in this and many other instances that is simply not true. This was not a hike gone bad. If he had been hiking he could have stopped and turned back when he didn't like the look of the situation. Once he was off the bridge and in the canyon he had no other choice but to get out or die. The fear probably wasn't as intense, but it was still there.

Richard made some very bad choices and they cost him his life, but I have to agree this jump wasn't over until his body was found. It's such a shame and we try to justify ourselves as usual by saying "That was stupid. I wouldn't do something stupid like that." I'm sure Richard wasn't trying to make the dumbest things you could possibly do list. He probably felt it wouldn't be a big deal to get out.

The thing to learn here is not "Don't jump at night." or "Don't do solos" or "Always have a GC". The lesson to learn is "Be prepared" If he had broken his ankle when he landed the outcome would have probably been the same.

Well said, Tony. I've generally been leaning toward the "not a BASE jumping fatality" side of things, but you've made some good points.

I am reminded of Roger Butler, #48 on the list, who drowned after landing in the water at a nearby bridge. Should we call this a swimming fatality?

The problem here seems to be that BASE jumping has the potential to put us into places we don't know how to get out of. Sure, people sometimes get lost hiking, too, but the potential is much greater with BASE jumping, since leaving the way you came in is simply not possible.

I am also reminded of my friend, who got stuck on a wall overnight. Temperatures dipped to about -20, but he had only really dressed for a short flight. After that, we realized that particularly if you're jumping late in the day, and if the forecast calls for unpleasant conditions at night, you need to dress for the worst. Had my friend not made it through the night, I don't think I would have considered it a climbing fatality.

It's really clear to all of us that jumping into an area when you don't really know how to get out, especially if it's dark and you are not prepared to spend some time there, is a bad idea. But maybe it's worth thinking, next time you're standing at the exit point and it's a little chilly, how well you'd get by if you had to spend the night because of injury.

I've no real business on a basejumper site except for the fact I've been a basejumper watcher for several years here in Twin Falls. Watched the good and the bad and verbally supported the activity in occasional discussions with the dubious.

The hiking mention made me want to chip in. There is no casual trail to follow to take a hike in or out of that section of the canyon. You are basically down there if you jump or take a boat. Cheers.

I just shave .What do you see Nick?

Yeah? Ever meet a guy named Richard Heaton there?

She effed up her S/L system, he smacked a cliff under canopy, he hummed it too low,
he blasted into a tree under canopy, she failed to deploy her pilot chute.

Abandon? That's a tangent. What are you talking about?

Some imaginary guy from your world we haven't met yet?

So what did you two clowns do in the night?

Maybe back to "this was only a drinking incident"?

There's nothing right or wrong to do!
There's no failure!
There's no responsibility!
I can pretend anything I want.

In a hundred days no one will remember.

Avery
BASE396

Yeah, so don't fuck up and you'll be okay. Outdoor survival skills...at the Perrine you can order a prime rib at the outback steakhouse, then run out to the middle of the bridge, jump, grab your shit and scurry up the canyon to the parking lot and be back at your table in 17 minutes when your plate arrives. The waitresses are sorta' slow sometimes.

Maybe you should watch a little closer. There is a well formed trail with bridges over several of the higher volume streams and a set of steel stairs in the only steep part of the trail. Looking down from the bridge there are two paths that cross directly under the exit point. One goes up the wall and one goes down the river.

I had a 60-70 years old lady offer to carry my rig back to the park for me. She and her friend had no problem finding or following the trail.

As far as I'm concerned, Richard failed us.

I know if I got to go, I'd rather be remembered for the guy in his 60's or 70's who died tracking away from the formation after a sunset load, like Johnny Gates, than the drunk who jumped off alone and at night into some place I'd never seen before in the middle of February.

Without his cellphone.

Good to see your post Nick...and it's as thought provoking as usual...hence the controversy.

Skypuppy.
You couldn't be more correct. Johnny Gates pulled off one of the classiest moves I know of in more than 30 years of skydiving.
Die at the end of a skydive without fucking up, taking anyone out, or leaving a mess?
Greg Robertson is a hero, Johnny Gates is a friggin' legend!

Some of the posters to this thread have forever lost my respect. The hate and venom ooze from your posts like the poison it is.
You're living in your own little Hell's, and enjoy spreading the suffering around.
No thanks, I'm not having any.

Nick's post is sorta like a verbal, self fulfilling prophecy. It's very clear that most of the older guys 'get it'.
There is so much more to "THE JUMP" than simply leaving the edge, and shortly after, arriving on the surface safely.
Can you safely make the jump without properly packing your rig? Maybe, but not for long, and that is also 'part of 'THE JUMP'.
And it's a damn shame too, because someone reading this may also die by making the same mistake as some other poor soul who's already on the list.
And you know what your buddies will be thinking years later when watching their grandchildren play, while reflecting on your early death?
"Wow, that was a different world back then!"

You think Nick is the first 'old guy' to get shit from some younger people?
It's a chemical difference that occurs with aging, and has been causing a generation gap, since there have been enough generations to have a gap.

I have no problem with Richard being left from TBFL, because he didn't die during the exit/FF/deployment/CC or landing phases of "THE JUMP", but still feel he died BASE jumping.

While driving to Pueblo for dinner a few nights ago, I was wondering what I would want to be able to say to the ones I left behind if I found myself in Richards position...after the fact.
As I was cruising along, a song came on the radio, and the words just fell like rain.
I won't be a bit surprised if it makes MUCH more sense to the older guys...for several reasons.

"If I'm gone by tomorrow,
Would you still remember me?

For I am travel...ing on now,
Cause there's other places I've gotta be.

If I'd stayed here with you now,
things just couldn't be the same.

I'm as free as a bird now,
And this bird, why would you change?

Lord knows, I can't change.

Bye, bye, I've had a great time...yeah, yeah,
Though my crossing over I can't change.

So please don't take it too badly,
cause the Lord knows I'm the one to blame.

But, if I'd stayed here with you now,
Things just couldn't be the same.

Well I'm as free as a bird now,
And this bird, why would you change?
And this bird, why would you change?

Lord knows, nothing will change,
Lord help us, it won't change."


BASE359

Thanks. You are absolutely correct. A downririver trail/path leads to above Centennial Park with a 2 mile return to bridge.

I assume the jumper couldn't make it out at night because of ice and snowcover. Winter appears different than summer.

My point echoed by most, including local public, is that the nature of his arrival at the bottom made it a basejumping accident. If he had hiked in and hypothermia hit it would be a hiking related accident.

I agree with your post but sometimes the older crew needs to remember that wisdom comes from life experience not stories from others, you must live it to digest it.We all fail the IQ test in life at times and have a close call due to making a poor choice and we walk away humbled and wiser, of course sometimes you pay with your life for failing the test.Life is not that complicated some get it others just don't see the gift,but lets not take our voices to serious none of us are permanent.
Nicks post just seems to slam others and wisdom would tell you that words of that nature are pointless to make a change.

Experience comes from making mistakes. Wisdom is learning from others experience.

jon

Nice post Nick..
I've never been to this jump site...but if you look at most of the 'public' sites around the world....there are usually some forms of warning/advice/recommended procedures to be observed and displayed/implemented at each site .....all are different at each site and maybe relevant to the real risks at each local site ( The Valley, Brento, Kjerag for example)

Maybe someone thought directions out of the LZ of that site were not important...but maybe now they need to be put in place considering what traffic it experiences..and this tragic event.

But...

Its the responsibility of the jumper at any site to make the correct decisions they can make...to ensure a successful 'jump' ( which only finishes when you are at home supping a beer or hot coco)
In order to make the correct choices ...it is each jumpers responsibility to make sure sure they have the correct knowledge/gear/plan B....especially if solo'ing the object.

This is the same for the first ever BASE jump as it will be for the last ever BASE jump.....perhaps , along the way we forget the fundemantal facts of that...especially on these easily accessable sites.

Caveat Emptor
Check and Test.....check and test


RIP Richard.