Basejumper.com - archive

Well I had a lot of people ask me at Bridge Day if it was possible to hook up a wing suit to my BaseR system with the reserve. Well the answer is YES and today Yuri did the first jumps on it. Here's some pics of him on the ground wearing it. Well I'll post them once I learn how.

cool, how much did the belly mount hinder his GR?

Please post more details of your BaseR system!

A URL would be fine,to post pictures...do this


First you need to join http://www.photobucket.com and get a free account.

Secondly you'll need to upload your images to your photobucket account. Click the browse button, find the image on your pc and click upload when you have finished selecting them...

Once uploaded your images will be automatically given Links.....

Select the ones that are the bottom of the three otions...and have IMG inside these brackets [ ] surrounding your URL

Copy and paste them into your post and we now have the pics :)

http://thebaser.com/

OK here ya go I hope this woks. Thanks for the help.

As far as glide, he only did a pass at 5k and took it to 2k. From the ground he definitly covered some ground and Yuri was surprised that it didn't feel that bulky.

In the first seconds after the exit, I couldn't feel much drive (so I did feel the drag), but then I tucked my head down more and got a decent glide ratio. It took me some time to accelerate to good forward speed. I'd say Phantom's GR got reduced to about Prodigy's level (so, probably from ~2.0-2.2 to ~1.6-1.7?), but that's understandable from the aerodynamics point of view - added drag is added drag. Every change in gear configuration takes quite a few jumps to "figure out" to maximize the glide ratio, and this first jump was very promising. When flying-by the jumper who exited before me, I could see visually that the glide did not suffer that much.

What's unquestionable is that with BaseR you can practice WS BASE in skydiving environment. Deployment from full flight is the same, so you get the feeling and experience to have nice on-heading openings. Then, you have a few minutes under big-ass canopy to practice stalls, object avoidance, snap turns, flare, and finally land close to reference points (trees, hangar) to simulate BASE situations.

Overall - VERY COOL!

Nice to see a BASE jumper is working on the project.

 

Is there anything that says that you have to have the reserve exposed? Can you legally make some kind of aerodynamic cover for it?

The way I read the silly laws is that you can wear any BASE rig out of a plane, as long as you have a VX39 and mini-PDR underneath a sweatshirt, reversed, wearing that rig on the front...

I can't imagine you would cut away the BASE canopy in favor of a round, so...?

It is a shrivel flap that is attached to the bridle, not the container. Once you inserted the pins, the shrivel flap is tucked in the container on all 4 sides.

No reflection on you, Yuri.

But I saw this yesterday and was just going to pass on it, but newer jumpers should know, and I can't help myself . . .

Hey Sonic,

You ripped off the Apex DP, Bill Booth's magnetic riser covers, and lol, John Sherman's 30 year old Pop Top Reserve.

Just what part of this system did you actually design when you "sat down" ???

NickD
BASE 194

Its actually I believe its Ted Strongs.

No Jarret, John Sherman = Racer = front mounted Pop Top circa 1977 . . .

I've got one out in my shed.

NickD
BASE 194

I doubt that he "ripped it off" as his containers and bellymounts are MADE by Jumpshack - and their TSO is what makes them legal :)

not sure on the DP and Magnetic cover licensing though....

Awhile ago Karin Sako posted some old purse designs where cover flaps replicated all types of flap closures on Pilot and BASE rigs.. Perhaps this is the case too ?

is that like a new trick rig for cut aways or something? if so i want one. if its not what the hell is the piont of it

I wasn't talking about how legal it might be . . .

But, I don't understand what you're saying.

Are you saying he's special ordering them from Jump Shack? Because they look too small to be original ones. That would be fine, But what about the harness? You can't just hang a TSO'd reserve on a non-TSO'd harness.

While I certainly see the potential for BASE training here, unless someone spends the money to get the whole thing TSO'd you can't tout it as the big answer . . . and I'm sure you can't just hang a new container on a existing TSO'd harness and call it legal.

Maybe, I'm missing something here, or did he not quite explain what he's doing?

NickD
BASE 194

Nick my understanding is that JumpShack builds everything for him at their facility. As far as reading the TSO - I simply don't know. I am fairly certain the rig that was at Bridge Day had the TSO label on the harness.

have you land the reserver yet, if you did how is the landing, what size is the round, is it better to use the small packing material and make square parachute for it,
there is too many skydivers that don't know how to land a sever cell canopy, how they going to land a round and walk away on there own power ?

>>Nick my understanding is that JumpShack builds everything for him at their facility.<<

Okay, thanks . . .

NickD
BASE 194

And again, why can't you put an aerodynamic cover, which would of course negate the reserve, to make it fly better? Still legal.

Again, you are never going to cut away your ZP Blackjack to transfer to the crappy round.

Not that it matters but I am actually right you are wrong. Jumpshack licensed it from Ted Strong circa 1977. It was Ted Strong's "invention" and yes you have been outsmarted by a person who wasn't even born in that era.

Edit: And I also have one in my shed hands.

Sonic, I love ya man, but this Baser thing is scaring me.

Who is consulting on this project? After you rejected major manufacturers designs as being "garbage" and then seeing the performance of of your original Baser at TF, I would hope that this project is being thought through with the assistance of some level headed jumpers with world wide experience in gear and jump profiles.

So, enlighten us. I know some people are very interested in the concept, I for one will be interested to see more.

The concept, or "Invention" may have been Strong's, but the DESIGN is Jump Shack.

Am I missing something this seems to be re-inventing the wheel. People used to jump a single parachute container on their back with a round on their front all the time back in the day (old timers chime in) and then they found a much better way to do it by puting them both on your back. This just seems like a pointless idea to me shitty reserve, shitty aerodynamics for flying, and heavy ass base rig due to extra hardware. Props for trying something new or old or borrowed whatever you want to call it but no offence to the "inventor" what is the point . . . .

>>and yes you have been outsmarted by a person who wasn't even born in that era.<<

Well, I always say people don't pay enough attention to history, so in this case, and technically maybe, ya got me . . .

Good work.

NickD
BASE 194

Ok Everybody,

1) The BaseR Container and BaseX Canopy are sold by Ulster County Containers & Canopies - (Sonic)
These items are made by Jump Shack exclusivley for UCCC.
2) I designed the base contianer and new 2 pin Free Flap. As far as ripping off those people listed - HA! I don't see how I ripped off design features from the DP, unless your talking about it having 4 flaps and 2 pins.
3) The idea behind the BaseR is that you can practice jumping your BASE gear out of a plane to learn your canopy, like everybody is told to do. In addition, I beleive I have created something that is beyod anything else out there.
4) Hey JP thanks for the concerns buddy, but we have this handled, by professionals. As far as the performance at TF it was great, so what are you talking about. As far as this thing scaring you, BOO! You freakin' sissy! Also next time you comment about something you should know about it cause right now you don't.
5) I guess only time will tell
6) Hey NickDG, it's OK to be jealous. If you want to order one I won't tell anyone.

>>6) Hey NickDG, it's OK to be jealous. If you want to order one I won't tell anyone.<<

Yeah, hold on, I'm digging out my credit card, LOL . . .

NickD
BASE 194

1. I have heard very little about the BaseX canopy? Sizes? Vents? Valves? Tailpocket? Tailgate? ZP option? Glide ratio? Slider off opening characteristics? Number of jumps on it and who is doing the test jumping?

Can you expound about it?

2. What are the prices for the belly mount reserve? It seems like it would be cheaper to just rent a student rig for a few jumps if you wanted to get to know your canopy then pay the premium for the rig and reserve....

I agree it would give you a chance to practice a 'true terminal' slider up packjob, but is the price worth the benefit?

_justin

The BaseX is still in the works. It's a standard 7 cell reinforced base canopy. We offer all those options that people want; zp upper, vents, tail pocket, tail gate. We've put a bunch of jumps on it and are still tweaking it.

As far as the chest mount resreve goes, it cost $425 for the container and the reserve is seperate. It obviously has to be a TSO'd round, which is easy to find. Plus most DZ'z have an old timer that has a tso'd chest mount. You could also rent a chest mount from UCCC if you need to. It's the typical have it for 2 weeks demo rental for $40. So there really isn't an extra cost, so what extra price are you referring to?

besides me thinking this system is pointless...
why not take a military throw out bellymount reserve?
smaller and cheaper i'd think.
or one like the crew guys use as tertiary speed breaker.

Pointless? Did you not read the above thread? What do actually think is pointless? Write something substantial oppsed to, Hey that's pointless, DUH?

Well, you said in a previous thread:


So the container is (20 -30%) more than your standard 2 pin base container.... That's extra to me....

Then tack on either buying or renting the chest mount to make a few jumps.... Seems like it would cost more than the average 'rent a student rig for a day.....


Also;

How many is a bunch of jumps on the canopy? And who is doing these jumps? Could they chime in and give some opinions?

Also where is it being test jumped? The potatoe? Moab? In the dark of night?

_justin

dude, calm down.
it just seems a step back.
over here we are just about to get rid completely of the base-belly mount requirement, and you introduce a new system...
fine.
and no,i do not see how someone would spend his 40 min packjob on a base canopy that lasts a fucking 300-400jumps and flies slow as fuck, pulling at 2000feet when he can jump something fun fast elliptical.
preparation for wingsuit base??
yeah right....
its not in the gear.

Well anytime you deal with a Premium product, your gonna pay more. As far as a rental, if you came into my shop (The Ranch PROshop) a skydiving rental rig for the day is $90. So $40 for 2 weeks, aint so bad. PD and Icarus charge $60 for a two week canopy demo. I also will be offering free use of my chest mounts to anyone that wants to jump their BaseR out The Ranch. Yes I know that this my not help you, but it;'s something.

As far as the canopy, we have people from Jump Shack and myself jumping it out of planes and MD jumping it at TF. I will be in TF on the 28th to do more jumps with MD and friends. And NO i haven't done any night jumps yet, haha.

Mr. Prick,

HuH, What? I'm sorry but what you just wrote makes no sense. Over here? Where's that, Mars? Base-Belly Mount requirement?

"do not see how someone would spend his 40 min packjob on a base canopy that lasts a fucking 300-400jumps and flies slow as fuck, pulling at 2000feet when he can jump something fun fast elliptical"

Again I say Huh What?

over here is germany. get some facts about base systems with belly mounts first, will ya?maybe even inspiration?
it has been done before, big surprise!
and even jumped in a base environment! multiple times!
and from helicopters and stuff!
awesome, eh?
as to the pack job/elliptical remark...
there is a docile 7 cell base canopy on the pack,eh?
or what else? fairy dust?

to add:
only for legal base events and low altitude display jumps from helicopters into harbour pontons for example.

I've never seen a gear manufacturer endear himself to the jumper community by engaging in such banter.

Wow.

And refering to your largely untested gear as a premium product has probably got a lot of BASE jumpers chuckling....

Good luck. The market will decide in the end anyway.

_justin

they used PINs to close rigs.
then we changed to VELCRO closed rigs.
now we are back to PINs.

re-inventing the wheel is nothing new...

Legal preparation for wingsuit BASE in countries which require TSO'd gear for jumps from aircraft. A few hundred dollars more than a conventional rig gets lost in the noise of a $3000+ expedition to someplace with nice big walls, especially with the US dollar's decline making everything in Europe cost 50% more than it did in 2000.

Legal low-opening skydives (USPA's BSRs are not laws) with a safer container system.

Sure it's a niche product, just like the Sorcerer (intentional cutaways) and tiny rounds+containers (water jumps only).Definitely a more interesting market entry than yet another two-pin, four-flap conventional container.

yeah right i got so far.
but still i don't think jumping with a base rig from a plane prepares you for wingsuit base.
wingsuit skydiving and basejumping does.
do you think ws- base is just like ws-skydiving, you just open lower?
now i'm neither a super experienced ws-base jumper, or basejumper in general but this approach just seems wrong to me.
but maybe its just me....again...

So you gotta go and be a dick about it.

Whatever.


So in you infinite experience of harness and container construction, and your massive base experience (it it ten jumps now?), and after publicly (and quite loudly) talking trash about the design and construction abilities of two major manufacturers (Marty and Todd), you now have the wisdom to offer a product to the masses?

Yeah, your judgment was suspect from the start. That 3rd pin towing from the Perine was all I really needed to see.

All I asked for was more information. Whassamatter? You got nuthin' so you gotta slam others? WTF is wrong with you?

That sounds interesting, I've always thought that tailgate and tailpocket are pretty much standard stuff in any base specific canopy rather than being options. But nevertheless, can you give any details about the design, what kind of venting it has ? How many vented cells ? How are the vents placed ? What kind of vent covers ? Flight characteristics ? What sizes are you planning to offer on the baseX ? And most of all, where are the pictures ? :)

yuri,
Jumping w front mounted reserve is fun. (I did about 200 jumps w this back in early '80s )
Easier for you is to travel to Europe and jump BASE rig out of a plane and train (whatever you think you may train by using such configuration)

Jumping the front mount reserve w WS is pointless because the forward speed is not existing. Much easier is to tight the pilot chute ( 24-32 inch ) to your legs and fly if u like such flying...

hey I am sure u had fun.

As far as design goes of the BaseR H/C...
Cover flap attached to the bridle has been tested by Loic in France about 5-6 years ( even longer maybe) I think they drop that design on his BEASE rig Snekor which suppose to have that.
Reason why they turn the design I do not know. I may only guess...

Snekor

Yo J Pizzle,

WTF wrong with me? WTF with you? You act like i've only been in the sport of parachuting for a week. As far as talking trash, the first person I spopke trash too was the manufacturer himself. I have never talked behind anyones back. I even offered my assisstnats to make his rig better, but i got blown off. Talking TRASH is going on sites like this and bad mouthing them, uhnlike what I did. So don't say I was talking trash. I might of told you that your rig looks like shit, but hey if you want grommets showing, bridle showing and thick over the shoulder riser covers, cool. My mission here was to build something that is going to be the next step.

As far as my base experience, I didn't know that you had to have a lot of jumps to now what your talking about, when it comes to gear. And just because these guys have been in the sport/industry for as long as they have, doesn't meen their gear is better.

And as far as slamming people, what was your first post? That wasn't a SLAM? If it wasn't than I APOLOGIZE. Sorry, JP, I LOVE YOU!! Smoochy Smoochy!

some last words to you, mr parachutist.
the massive flaw in this whole project probably is you thinking that base is some kind of skydiving.
it isn't. maybe you should get out "in the field", get some jumps in, witness some more jumps maybe try to learn from actual basejumpers.
but no, you go on bragging about this being next step!!
man, take a look at the razor/hybrid l/d+/trango package.
if anything that is the next step.
you display pure fucking skygod/know it all attitude.
i really really hate it

I'd like to request EVERYONE (including Sonic) dial down the rhetoric.

personally, I'll give Sonic credit. he is trying to do something. I expect he has invested money in the project. he is in the game.

unfortunately, his style seems to grate and irritate potential customers.

so, let the market decide. remember, BR's Vertex and Vertex 2 were short lived. maybe this one will sparkle, maybe it will fizzle. the same can be said about the products you mentioned. simply vote with your dollars (euros, kroner, pesos, etc.)...

One word.........why?

>>remember, BR's Vertex and Vertex 2 were short lived.<<

The Vertex was originally built by Vertigo and they sold that rig for years. When Vertigo and BR merged into Apex BASE, instead of selling two flagship pin rigs they put together the best aspects of BR's original pin rig with the Vertex and Warlock. And that's what became the present day Apex DP . . .

Also Todd (BR) started building BASE rigs in about 1988, and I know that because I had the third one he made. Marta (Vertigo) started manufacturing not too long after, and Martin (Asylum) who I've know since he was Riglet has a pedigree in BASE manufacturing you couldn't purchase for love or money. So it's a bit hard to expect we sit by politely when Sonic says these folks don't know what they are doing. That's the joke of the decade.

I can't tell you how many fly-by-night BASE rig manufactures I've seen come and go over the years. Most you never heard of because they never get off the ground. And over that same course of time I've seen countless newbie BASE jumpers march in the door of both BR and Apex all fired up with the next "great idea" they came up with. And either Todd or Marta whips out a yellow pad and shows them 27-ways why it won't work. Usually these geniuses spend the next half hour repeating, "I never thought of that, or this, or that either . . . !"

And no one more then I bugged Todd over the years for a TSO'd BASE rig for the DZ. But I don't think most realize what razor thin profit margins the major BASE manufactures operate on. The BASE gear market was always tiny and even now as the sport grows, there are more BASE manufacturers than ever before so each still does a fraction of the business a mainstream skydiving manufacturer does. The TSO process is spendy and it was over 20 grand the last time I checked years ago. Plus you have to have ongoing FAA approval of your manufacturering and quality control practices. And this is something I know Apex does voluntarily without the FAA by tagging every material that goes into their products and I know that because I was the one tagging every roll of webbing, line, and canopy fabric they used. In this way if a bad lot of material appeared we knew what rig or canopy it went into, along with who purchased it, and it could be addressed. Asylum and Morpheus also do the same and its part of the reason Apex and these other firms are still in business after all these years.

Another thing is I remember is when these people were putting their whole beings on the line with what it took to start these firms. Family and friends told them they were nuts to mortgage their futures for something as iffy as BASE jumping. But they believed and pretty much they created the market that now offers so many choices to jumpers today. And Todd, Marta, Martin, and Kathy are too polite to say so, but I'm not. Guys like Sonic are interloping carpetbaggers who don't deserve your loyalty. And it's not what he knows that should scare you; it's what he doesn't know.

But back to the TSO'd BASE rig . . .

You can already purchase the German TSO'd system through Asylum if you want to go that route in Europe and here in the U.S. just go rent a Cessna and go jump for Christ sakes. If you aren’t experienced and connected enough to do that, than it means you shouldn't be doing those things. I also believe every one of the major manufacturers offers a MLW D-ring option so there you go. But do we really have to revisit why a BASE rig works so well is because they are simple and have no second canopy. Most times, in skydiving, you need a reserve because the rigs are so complicated because they have a reserve.

So when Sonic declares his rig is the "next step" people who know better already considered and passed on it, but he wouldn’t even know that. All the major BASE manufacturers keep a large skydiving rig in their shops on a cheap rental basis with a Cypres and in-date repack for any customer that wants to jump their new BASE canopy at the DZ. That's also money they will never see again because the ocassional rental dosen't pencil out.

So let's look at what Sonic is really doing. He's creating more of a problem for BASE jumping. People are actually arguing about new jumpers doing "boxman" type short delays on certain cliffs and that's insane. The real deal is no one should be jumping big walls without already possessing the ability to track effectively. So what now? A few wing suits jumps at a DZ wearing pseudo BASE gear and you're ready for Europe? Anybody not see where that will lead?

When I worked for Todd I'd sometimes take a few weeks off to go teach AFF FJCs at the DZ, or go evaluate in an out of town AFF cert course, or just go BASE jump. So I always prepared a list for the person you filled in for me on the phones. It was the "warning board" of sorts, a list of dangerous or PITA customers and Sonic was on that list.

And wwarped, you pretty much called into question my BASE credentials in another post, and also called me a "complainer" and I choose not to respond because I'm pretty comfortable with my BASE experience and knowledge. And there are more than enough people that actually know me well enough to know I have no axe to grind and my heart is in the right place. I also didn’t respond because, you have the advantage. I have no idea in hell who you really are because you don’t post your name. That's fine, if you want to go that route, but like Mick and Tom before you at least those guys did it out in the open and took their (mostly underserved) hits. But I can only judge you by your words and when you defend this guy Sonic, along with some other things you've said, I can't fathom any other reason for it other than you're being a bit naïve . . .

NickD
BASE 194

agreed.

is the point of this belly mount BASER stuff to get people the ability to jump a BASE rig out of a airplane legally in the US and other countries? because trust me, a belly mount makes the entire idea of jumping BASE gear moot. God wanted parachutes to be magic backpacks, not beer bellies with hunchbacks.

is it so jumpers getting into the sport don't have to buy BASE gear AND skydiving gear? as in they can just hook up this beer belly and jump out of planes when they want to?

I don't want to be rude, but after reading all of this I don't see the point.

Be Well,
CH

Nick,

first off, I'm trying to moderate, not defend Sonic. I thought the conversation was getting heated and thus less than productive. (and I think it represented horrible customer service from a manufacturer...) I tried to be balanced and give Sonic some credit.

my point was that some designs last, some do not. the market will decide. some talented people claim their new product is the next best thing, but in fails to catch on.

your post made great contributions reminding us the depth of knowledge at some manfacturers. I trust their control over their processes. (I jump a vertex btw...) Sonic is not only new to this field, but contracts out the manufacture. did Sonic create the templates? did he cut out and sew the first units? did he tweak HIS design as he sewed it together? did he study the unassembled pieces looking for ways to improve?

I doubt it, and thus it is very possible that something is less than desirable.


Nick, we have met. I even owned up to who I was. you showed me around BR's shop and I picked up my repaired Flik. I trust Todd's work.

still, most of what I know about you I get from your writing. it tends to be fluid, constructive, helpful, extensive and balanced (free of emotion).
I recognize your knowledge is extensive.
I recognize you error on the generous side in sharing knowledge and sites. you welcome people to your area.
I recognize your passion for this activity and numerous positive contributions.
I view your credentials as very solid, except on one topic where your passion influences your writing. (then you remind me of the pied piper of Hamlin. the piper ended up fine, but not those who blindly followed him. that is a different thread.)

as for me, I prefer anonymity. I've read too many personal attacks on Tom (and others). they say cruel things, bring up his wife and daughter. I really think some turn to personal comments when their logic and rational thought fail.

remember, personal feelings also influence how some perceive ideas. I want my IDEAS to draw attention, not me. I'm not a glory hound. I'm NOT seeking attention. I'm NOT posting videos on youTube. I'm NOT bragging about my jumps. I just quietly try to do my thing. (heck, some think I'm a non-jumper...)

isn't that something that should be commended?

 
Well, that was pretty good, wwarped . . . and thanks for it . . .

But of the hundreds of BASE jumpers I took on the tour of our shop, I can't connect your screen name and the person. But it doesn't matter.

I started the very first BASE Board back on Genie in the early 90s. And I've been here all through the trials of Mick's BASE board, the BASE zone, and now this place. I don't mind so much, when I think about it, that nameless newbies will jump on my shit now, because as young BASE jumpers we did the same thing, to people who didn’t deserve it back in the 1980s. Just another pidgin coming home to roost, I suppose.

BASE is not a numbers game. I learned that early on from Carl Boenish and before most of you. So, yes, my numbers aren’t up there with most modern jumpers, but I never had the opportunity to jump as much as modern BASE jumper can now so that was inevitable.

So chuck me off, not you wwarped, but some of the rest of you. But I'm the younger, and dumber, past version of you. So learn from history instead of repeating it. But that's a pipe dream isn’t it.

This is my last post to this board. I've had a good 25+ year run trying to pass things on for the betterment of us all on the internet. So I'll just continue making a couple of BASE jumps here and there, but I can't fight the apathy. I can't fight, or stomach, the sediment of "blow me" anymore . . .

Good luck, all . . .

NickD
BASE 194

I hope you re-consider. this forum will be far poorer.


this forum should NOT be a place where people "fight." that is why I prefer tamping down excessive emotion. some users effectively scream, causing many to read, but NOT join in. threads get dominated by a few, or by quick quips.

I'd much prefer discussions over fights. the former tends to draw out the shy, the latter keeps them away... the limited number of posters makes many appear apathetic.

we rarely see their names, but RL, Rick & Joy, 460, Jimmie P, and others still lurk. I really doubt any of them are apathetic...

feel free to take a pause, but you'll be welcome if you choose to resume posting!

One BASE god less...thank you!!!

Thank`s for all your boring and endless "back in the day" post`s you have written, now i must find a new method to fall into sleep at night....

One more example of no respect.

Not for people who have come before you.

Not for the objects.

Not for other jumpers.

Not for the fact you have the luxuries afforded to you in the sport today.

How fucking sickening.

For what it is worth I hope that you are not gone from the board. I have always looked up to you and appreciated your advice, knowledge and stories you truly do have a lot to share and I am sure we have only seen a fraction of it. I even bought some of my first gear from you. If you are gone from the board I guess I'll just have to run it to you at an exit point some day or at the 6/9 protest. Let me know next time you are having one of your dinners and I will
get my lazy ass out of San Diego for a day.

Shit. I'm in the same boat. Agree completely. Cept' it's alot further from NY for dinner....

And I don't wan t Leroy there, hitting on someone (waitress) in front of their Mom like last time!

_justin

 

so... is anyone moderating this forum? Because I think I should.

Good post, Jay.
However, I doubt that Nick was 'scared off' by the things written here. Trust me, I've seen Nick face to face with danger in the past, and he doesn't back up a single step.

But, one thing a guy our age (I'm older than Nick) doesn't care for, is the constant smell of shit.
And some of the 'children' in this forum have been reaching into their diaper and slinging it all over each other, and now everyone else gets some too.

Looks like it's time for a purge.

BASE359

Can you not use a sorcerer for the same purpose?

let it be known to all: the "norcal" base group is actually many sub groups. many don't know eachother. some objects are used by all groups (the easy ones), others are saved for those who are worthy and not selfish arrogant pricks. i am in the bay area and I agree with you bhs, as i am sure others here do to. lock and load huh? i'm in. I've meet BHS and NICKDG twice, both have open invites to jump anything in the bay area. feel free to PM

-nic

yes it is.
but it can't be watched 24/7!

management expects users to show some restraint. other users can add peer pressure. if the community constantly expects others to impose discipline, then we will lose access to some sites and never see the NPS open their sites... face it, if we can't control ourselves here, no one will trust an exit point (or even hiking to that exit point).

that said, I've deleted some posts, and banned both "norbase" and "basehoundsam."

in an attempt to get this thread BACK on track...

I believe the answer is NO. while the sorcerer IS a dual container system, I doubt Vertigo ever applied for a TSO.

the harness AND reserve must be TSO'd before it can be made AVAILABLE to someone in flight (IIRC).

So does that technically mean you couldn't carry a non TSO'd rig on to an airplane?

Hey wwarped,

Your quote;
"your post made great contributions reminding us the depth of knowledge at some manfacturers. I trust their control over their processes. (I jump a vertex btw...) Sonic is not only new to this field, but contracts out the manufacture. did Sonic create the templates? did he cut out and sew the first units? did he tweak HIS design as he sewed it together? did he study the unassembled pieces looking for ways to improve?

YES!!!! I did. My rig is the 4th generation design. We even still made some changes to Miles rig so his is 5th generation design. Which is where we are at now. Is there room for improvement? ALWAYS, and that's for any rig out there.

wwrapped quote;
I doubt it, and thus it is very possible that something is less than desirable."

Instead of writing something like above, how about calling me and ask. Unlike everyone on this site, it seems that I am the only one who actualy filled his PROFILE out fully. So you know who I am and how to get in touch with me. But I'm new to this forum stuff.

It's amazing how everybody gets so worked up, CHILL people.

As far as NickDG, hey dude, I know you may not like me and you twist some things i've said but you shouldn't go away MAD. If you need a friend to talk to or a shoulder to cry on you can call me.

Other than that, this post started with me posting pics for people that were curious about the BaseR and wing suits, that's all. As far as the BaseR goes, only time will tell. I just wanted a way for people to start this sport safer and i ended up designing something that I think is a superior base rig. If any one breaks into this sport or even skydiving with new gear and they don't think it's the best thing out there,then they are idots for doing it. I don't now of anyone who would introduce a new product and be like; "Hey this is new and it's not as good as others but you should buy it." Ya see what i'm saying.

Anyway, what amazes me are the people who think they know gear. As a master rigger, I can say I know gear. From build sequences to reapiring rigs, I've done it all, which is more than most. I've talked to so called instructors that have owned gear for 20 years and still don't have a clue abuot gear and how it proparly works. This brings me to a point in base jumping. I have heard so much false information about gear and how it works, so I educated myself by talking to very qualified base jumpers. Again, only time will tell.

well, I guess I assumed incorrectly. that is one reason I avoid being too harsh and I welcome discussion.

feel free to tell me I'm wrong and WHY I'm wrong. if it helps you get your message across, good for you.


I failed to contact you simply because I'm NOT in the market for a rig. I do NOT need to trust you and your equipment. I feel more like an interested spectator.

if someone is looking to buy a rig, I'd suggest they call everyone (even vendors they plan on avoiding). you never know what you'll learn from whoever. do you trust them? do you trust their equipment? are their lead times acceptable? can you be measured for proper fit by a company principle, or only by yourself? what do you plan on jumping? what don't you know? like much of BASE, learn and decide for yourself.

several of the above questions become even more important with a new player in the game.

oh, and anyone can reach me via PM's. this gig is voluntary, so I need to go to work occasionally!

note:
commercial operators do NOT operate under part 91.
most, if not all, drop zones do.

thus, Sonic's product allows jumpers to become familiar, in depth, with ALL their equipment while jumping out of an airplane. legally (in the US). they can build muscle memory on the exact location of handles. they can experience the joy of opening shock at terminal. they can see how the rig interacts with a wingsuit (fit, handle access, etc.).

it effectively permits newbies smaller baby steps. they need NOT take a huge step out of their comfort zone. heck, they might appreciate the familiarity of the magnets (even if unproven in BASE).

for a long time, the excepted wisdom was FOR velcro rigs and AGAINST pin rigs. opinions changed. the current bias is AGAINST this, but will it change as well?

No, the Sorcerer design does not hold a TSO, something that Sonic's offering does have.

While the Sorcerer could probably pass the TSO requirements, it's probably not worth the $20,000 to 30,000 it would cost to obtain. JumpShack already holds TSO's so "minor changes" of an existing TSO are a pretty inexpensive paperwork change, often not requireing the gauntlet of test drops required by the FAA.

Just FYI, the "Nor" in NorBASE is for "Norway" not "NorCal".

ah, i was responding to BHS suggesting it was a norcal thing.

while this is a great idea in theory, any jumper getting used to where their cutaway handle is immediately after opening is kinda scary. and honestly, has anyone ever had trouble finding a BOC handle on a BASE rig when compared to a skydiving rig? hell, I have never noticed any difference. but i HAVE noticed differences between individual skydiving rigs and BASE rigs. maybe its better to get a student used to FINDING the handle where it SHOULD be, instead of just robot grabbing the same place on your butt.

opening shock? what? do you have to have a two-pin rig single parachute packpack rig to get this same effect? what happened to a large J7? easier, safer, more stylish (barely), legal.

Be Well,
CH

I'm NOT saying this appeals to me...
I'm just presenting the positives about the rig.

some people have had issues locating handles. it is believed to happen to Jan, and it has happened on wingsuit BASE jumps. if any of these people HAD jumped their BASE rigs out of an airplane, they could resolve the issues before being time-limited on a BASE jump.

and true, opening shock is opening shock. still, different harnesses fit differently. they will distribute the loads differently. (ever jumped a small harness?). and the 3-ring location will determine how you sit.

Sonic would argue buying his kit is CHEAPER than buying and maintaining the J7 (in addition to a BASE rig).

YOU may not think much of the above is significant, but I'm sure some nervous newbies will! that is the beauty of the market...

Been spellin long?
I think you have fucked any chance you had by your aggressive posts. Slop in one area is perceived to propagate into all areas (thanks 460). I don't really want to give you crap, but it is like you are setting yourself up for it.
What I would like to see is a tso c23b PDA that could be deployed from the bottom left side of container. I could do it if I had the time and machines but my job as a researcher does not allow for this at the moment
I think you are going retro.
My other tip for you would be to search out posts from popular manufacturers and adopt their style of posting.
Take care,
space

Why?

that is not MY spelling. (o.k., I abuse the capitalization rules... guilty.)

that clip came direct from UCCC, aka Sonic. I have nothing to do with this enterprise.

I got to look up close at Miles D's BaseR. It looked pretty sweet. You could tell by the harness work that it was a Racer type design. They used the same webbing and leg pad material/ design.

The riser covers were magnetic and that I guess was pretty cool. I think it could be a little gimicky but there's nothing bad about gimicks.

The shrivel/ pin flap was pretty unique and clever. Hard to explain but it's like no other rig out there.

The reserve rings were pretty consealable. You couldn't tell that you could put a reserve on there unless you opened up some "super secret" flaps.

All in all. I think it is a pretty neat design. Personally it would be hard for me to justify paying the $1100 for one. But it would be cool to impress your skydiving friends when you take it down really low on skydives.

just curious... how much does a full set up cost? sorry if it is already posted.

container/harness/canopy, reserve container/reserve canopy

and just to get it clear... because i may have missed it... this is a fully TSOd rig? as in you can buy one TOMMOROW and use it in the US legaly?

As Robi has already mentioned, Loic introduced a very similar design (I am reluctant to say the same design as I have not seen a BaseR up close) to the world several years back. So unfortunately for you the pin shrivel flap is not that unique after all. And I am going to guess it is exactly like the Snekor.

Do you guys have a phone to talk to each other on, instead of writing on the internet for all of us to see, and not care??

Agreed.

This looks a pretty neat rig and even though it may not be to everyones tastes or pockets....

It will still have taken a lot of time to create and at least some respect should be afforded to the creator IMHO. Even if you dont like the design or believe its not original...

With that said the OP should learn to post politely.....

but take it outside or onto a phone call.....please

So in your mind, you think it would be acceptable to violate USPA BSR's while using a "BASER" when jumping at a DZ.

I do.. especially if its at a non-USPA DZ.

That said, I would also be careful not to piss off the DZO by pulling at 250ft unannounced right over a group of spectators...

are you saying its not acceptable?

Don't be coy. Although, you bumped your head pretty hard, you still have most of your marbles.

just making sure.

Sure.

The 2000' minimum container opening altitude is predicated on sloppy 6 minute pack jobs, canopies that open in two hundred feet, slow low-speed malfunction modes, and everyone having approximately the same descent rates.

Changing those variables makes different numbers appropriate. Mix in canopies that take a lot longer to open, have low-speed malfunction speeds a significant fraction of terminal freefall velocity, and radicaly different descent rates and something on the order of 3000-3500' is more appropriate. Eliminate the need for a reserve through better packing and more reliable equipment and the 1800' cutaway decision altitude goes away allowing for a lower safe container opening altitude.

Doing this at a non-USPA dropzone would be a better idea.

It takes four folds to free pack a 245 into my J7 versus two folds with my Warlock. It would be nice to know whether the two fold pack job is going to do something weird with a wing suit like give me line twists or hesitate and then slam me hard enough to stun me (unlikely) at 2000+ feet instead of below 1000.

There have been a number of equipment problems mixing wing suits and BASE rigs. Yuri had premature openings with his Warlock before they added the stiffener to the left side flap that he believed to be out-of-sequence deployments. It would be nice to sort that sort of thing out at 2000+ feet instead of below 1000.

My J7 has the closing loop on a tongue attached to the reserve container, while the Warlock has the loops on the left side flap. I think the tongue is more likely to cause a fatal entanglement on a low terminal opening.

For all other cross-training purposes the J7 is a better choice than a TSO'd pin rig because six minutes beats sixty on the pack job when you're just adding classic accuracy to your hop-and-pop schedule or wing suit jumps.

another reason that javalin is F-ing retarded. I owned one for a hundred jumps, and still can't figure out why they did that flap mounted closing loop.


I do agree though... 4 consolidation folds instead of 2 could matter. maybe not much, but it could.


I also may be spoiled, I have about as many airplane BASE gear jumps than i do airplane skydive gear jumps. but the idea of this does still irks me a bit.

OK. "Looks good on paper." I think everyone is missing the point of the statement I made. So, out of the limited number of bandit DZs in the US, how many DZOs out there, do you think are going to let you decide your own hard-deck? Do you think since they're bandit DZs, that "incidents" don't affect their businesses.

Anyway, I don't think the idea behind "Sonic's" design was to legalize low-pull contests at DZs.

All the ones I've run into seem to give people at least enough latitude to do what they want as long as its not obviously unsafe or illegal.

A low opening with a BASE canopy and packjob is not obviously unsafe. With a TSO'd rig its not illegal.

Some relax the restrictions on legality and/or safety. I've seen one DZO have no problems with low pulls on ellipticals and six minute pack jobs (preceeding conversation with packer: DON'T SLOW IT DOWN. I PULL LOW). The jumper may have gotten a different treatment if he was inexperienced enough not to know better but that shouldn't be the case here.


I haven't noticed a difference in student and experienced jumper attendance more than a day after a skydiving fatality. On the same day as one fatality, we were too bummed to keep jumping and buying tickets so that business suffered, although the same DZO told me that first jump students increased after the publicity surrounding fatalities so he may have made it up later.

As long as people don't do illegal things which get tickets yanked or act stupid in ways that affect other people (swoop cross-wind) that give the DZ a bad reputation it's not going to have a significant effect on business.

Calvin,

I do not know you well enough to accurately
decide if you are in fact spolied, nor do I care.

I am curious though why you would begrudge
someone else the experiences you have had.

What possible affect would some guy in Iowa
jumping out of a cessna with a TSO'd BASE
rig have on you?

This makes about as much sense to me as
the people who get upset if you don't drink.


PS: How do you get the quote function to include
the author's name to appear when you quote them
as in: Calvin19 wrote:

it does not bother me, what i meant by 'irk' is that I don't think I would buy one or that its a good idea to get noob BASE jumpers confused with a cutaway skydiving rig and a BASE rig.

guys, guys, technical discussions in the technical forum please; I can't follow this thread anymore

nono... your doing it wrong,
you have to put another "[]" in front of the normal quote box with the name of who you are replying too.

yeye, back on track now. That round thing on the belly mount, is that a steering wheel?

apparently its a compass autopilot. it works best when wearing a wingsuit, you dial in a heading before exit and while flying you precess onto the correct heading.

now i know you're bluffing.
i was thinking it's either a steering wheel or a gyro for stability...

"compass autopilot"

I probably won't buy one either, but for different reasons.

By the way, thanks for the heads up on how to quote.

what?

oh. ok. makes sense now.

You could design a really extreme canopy to go with this rig that would both snivel for hundreds of feet and blow apart when taken 3 with no slider.


That would be rad.