Basejumper.com - archive

The site UHUCK.COM is up and running. This is not a site to take away from basejumper.com, but a site with a purpose! So whats the purpose! Organizing a mass protest BASE jump off of El CAP on 6/9/08. We already have 17 jumpers committed and have begun giving out press releases and organizing bail money parties. We would appreciate a positive vibe on this one. The time has come for us to quite talking about it and do it. Please visit the site and show your support for this cause!

http://www.uhuck.com/Uhuck/home_page.html

I'm there 69/08 . . .

I'm also in for a t-shirt, after all, the ass I'm saving is my own . . .

But in my zeal to contribute I neglected to pick a size and I'm getting an extra small. I need a large!

NickD
BASE 194

Nick,
No worries a large it is, will be in the mail tommorrow. Let the brothers go, awesome!

some of us can't participate in the jump, as the offense on out record would stop us from doing our jobs. (airline pilots, etc) but I would come and ravel in the LZ.

My current understanding is you need a "permit" to stage a protest in a National Park. But, fuck that, I believe you should be able to peacefully protest anywhere in the United States and they can shove their "free speech zones" up their asses . . .

The entire United States is a free speech zone!

And there are many of us in the same boat as you, Calvin. So the right way to go about this is to overwhelm them.

If every BASE jumper, just in the United States showed up, along with their families, friends, and supporters, there would be thousands of us and they wouldn't have enough paddy wagons for us all!

But if nothing else, buy a t-shirt or shut up

NickD
BASE 194

I'm in the same boat as Calvin but I'll climb half way up the wall and shoot some film for you guys no problem and you never know my rope could just snap and I might just be wearing a special peice of saftey equipment that could save me from impact.

I'm there!!! I cant wait to land next to an nps ranger butt naked giving her the finger. you know what I mean. this is our land and we should be able to use it how we see fit.

We should all imagine that if we land near an NPS Ranger we will smile and give a high five.

You know they really want to give you a high five. We have been bombarded with emails and t-shirt orders, thanks for the support. We will be adding a jumper form to the site in the next couple of days. As jumpers come form all over we need jumpers that want to jump to alert their local media and their personal intentions on making the jump, this will make our voice loud and reach the masses. Remember the Tshirts and the dvds are going to be the vehicle that gets us off El Cap, so if you want to jump help organize a bail money party in your area on your behalf. We will have a calander up this week with a coordinator to schedule parties. We will not be stopped!

So who is organizing this protest jump? Who is the face of uhuck.com?

Security clearance be damned...

Map, Garmin, guille suit, and a borrowed set of PVS 14s for when the chase ends up in the dark.

My pursuers will end up naked, mushroom-stamped, and duct-taped to a tree.

Can I get an Ooo-rah?

(I've removed my contact information - if you need me, you know how to find me)

I got your OOH RAAH right here. I'm all for supporting this event but I'm with calvin and Sinister on this one. Not sure my fledgling commercial pilot career could handle a federal conviction but I'll run the beer garden, and bring my T Stake. Love the shirts btw but Chris Pope was wondering if you had one for him in a size 7...low cut?
Can't wait though it's on my calendar.

I'd like to jump with you guys.

I don't think my employer would give a shit about an aerial delivery charge and even if they did jobs like mine are easy to come by.

Besides, I could probably lose my rig and $2K in bail money and still get out of it cheaper than what I spent on a trip to Norway.

One question though: If you did get popped, would you just lose your base gear or would they steal your wingsuit too?

Hey 311, Im almost sure your reading this. Whats the ABP's thoughts on this? Support?? Or Discourage? And if the ABP Supports, is there any legal help that the ABP could contribute? Help with gaining permits for any part of the protest or jump, or good lawyers for after the arrests? I dont mean to put you on the spot Gardner, and I apologize for that, but this is a serious deal brother, which many of us are considering and some are already doing. Im just trying to look at it from every angle!

Thanks Man.

I keep thinking of the 1983 Matthew Broderick movie "War Games" where a powerful military supercomputer, with the ability to launch warheads, named Joshua, plays a game of "thermonuclear war". It decides for itself, just like tick-tack-toe, there are no winners in nuclear war. So, instead it invites the humans to play Chess instead, with the somewhat famous line spoken with a 80's computerized voice: "Shall we play a game of chess?"

Quote:


How does that relate?

I wonder if this protest jump is just another game of tic-tac-toe, or a game of chess? Will there be a winner? Will that winner be BASE jumpers? What is the strategy to win the battle (long term legal access?). A staged protest jump puts "us against them", and should anyone need medical attention, will just prove we are reckless law breaking yahoos.

I welcome anyone's opinion to educate me on - how the day AFTER the jump - discussions can begin on legal site access, and how this jump will OPEN those conversations instead of closing them? What is the end game? What happens after the bail money is used and everyone gets their fines?

“Each time a man stands for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.”

~Robert Francis Kennedy

Obviously there needs to be a post plan of action that still needs to be addressed and discussed. Concerns about incidents adversely affecting the cause are well justified. However, IMHO, this is the best course of action. This is going to ultimately come down to a publicity / PR spin at all stages of the game.

You asked the questions: how the day AFTER the jump - discussions can begin on legal site access, and how this jump will OPEN those conversations instead of closing them? What is the end game? What happens after the bail money is used and everyone gets their fines?

I ask you, for our edification, how would you recommend these issues be addressed? Common consensus is going to be paramount. Obviously, we all have the same concerns. What answers to these questions would best suit the cause? I think everyone needs to answer these questions and voice a course to be stayed.

By the way, the myspace site is up and running also. Please add yourselves by going to: http://www.myspace.com/uhuck

I personally don't believe in breaking the law in protest to get the law changed - so I don't have the "what to do next move" calculated... That is why I asked you...

I have about 10 different ideas of "peaceful demonstrations" that could get just as much PR and press (with a good PR person sending out the proper press releases and photos to the AP and other news organizations)... But it would not involve a jump, - thus not nearly as glamorous, and probably would not get the BASE jumpers to show up...

I wish I didn't have to ask but ... what if someone decides to write B.A.S.E. in human excrement at an exit point? I think there needs to be some rules, regulations, and more organization otherwise this will most likely increase the negative instead of the positive public perception.

IF you have the time p.m. please.I work in Santa barbara for a paragliding school and have some contacts for private parties in Santa Barbara bars.My friends bring in 400 people at the parties,and all have money to spend.We can talk and see if we can put something on in Santa Barbara.Thanks
Gary

I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law.
Martin Luther King Jr.

Einstein once said "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly."

They will look like this "" Tarring and feathering will be a blessing comparatively.

I'm in.

Hey Guys,
If you could Email (to here in BASEJumper.com) me a photo of you in a "Jump" to be put on the myspace photos page only if you are going to be a jumper in this protest. Faces optional

I really like both of these quotes and have used them over, and over, and over again ...

This is the basis of America.

Count me in, we were already developing our own NPS protest jump for the Spring, you guys look like you are doing a great job.

When this goes down, and some Fed is clicking cuffs on me, its going to be really hard, but necessary, to smile and refer him to my attorney.

What a great idea
If I didnt live 3000 miles away I would do this for sure but as it is....I give you all a heartfelt pat on the back!

Like Nick DG said...its all in the numbers.... If 200+ base jumpers turn up to make the jump, the rangers will surely be outnumbered massively and theres a good chance many will get away. Disappear into the swarming crowd type of thing.

in fact, you could have you own custom 'section' of the crowd designed to do just that..... disappear jumpers

One thought though... With all the publicity prior to the event, isn't there a big chance that they will prevent jumpers from ever reaching the top of El Cap? with a Cordon or blockades or something else equally irritating?

I do not think that they will try to stop it. I think half of the system do not care that we jump and the other half want to arrest us and know that they cannot unless we jump. They know the conspiracy part is bullshit and will be thrown out at the arraignment.

Besides, if they did do something such as what you mention, the fact that it will just go to fuel the fire for the cause and shine the NPS in a completely dictatorial instead of democratic light in the public eye, may dissuade them from interfering with the jump.

But this is just my opinion an I have been wrong before...once

Anyone donating, spectating or participating needs to write a letter to your local congressman and senator informing them of your intention to participate and bringing light to this issue. Maybe one or several or many will decide our cause worthy of their attention...

Maybe the organizers should speak with the ACLU about legal representation...

I'm going to write a letter to Dick Cheney. He shot his hunting partner, he should understand our plight...

Hey,

does anyone know what the situation would end up like for a Canadian coming down to join in the fun!?! Would I just be treated like any other person or could it cause me lots of problems in the future?!

Cause I've already bought the t-shirt... I might as well jump right?!

Perhaps I can just help ground crew if it will be too much trouble getting caught?!?

I don't know, but I am in some shit in Canada right now. Do you know anyone in the crown?

if you get busted and they consider you as illegal alien they have to buy you a airline ticket and sent you home to Canada

Ill do anything I can but jump. Medical licensing is a lot easier with a clean record. Great opportunity to make a statement, just make sure it is the kind you want to be made about base jumpers.

Yeah they also send you the bill for the airline ticket and they don't give you a choice for ticket prices. They just call AA or United and say "We'd like a oneway ticket to Canada and it doesn't matter if it costs 2grand" This same predicament has happened to more than a few Kiwis over the years but believe me the tickets back to NZ are a little more.

I don't know anyone in the crown, but I do know a good lawyer who has gotten atleast one friend off on base jumping charges if that's what it's for!!!


Maybe i'll just rock out and come watch and drink beer in june!!

You know it!!! If I still have my current job I'll film from somewhere on the wall.... if I don't still have my job, I'M IN!!!! :)

I'm still curious who is organizing this protest jump? Any words of advice from Avery or the ABP? Perhaps many of you weren't BASE jumpers back in 1999 when the last protest jump took place?

In the past, I thought a mass protest jump was the right thing to do. I was pretty close to becoming a part of the 1999 El Cap jump where Jan Davis died, but work commitments wouldn't permit it. After being denied two Yosemite permits over the years and having to deal with the NPS at Bridge Day since 2002, I now believe there are better ways to protest NPS laws. A few examples:

-Packing protest in El Cap meadow or in their free speech zone.
-Protest in Washington DC at Dept. of Interior and NPS headquarters. Kite your canopies in protest in front of the Capital Bldg, Washington Monument, and mall.
-Mass requests for jumping permits.
-Lawsuit (Fred Morelli planned on filing a federal lawsuit several years ago)
-Or better yet, why don't we simply ask for Yosemite officials to meet with us to discuss BASE jumping? Has anyone done this yet?

Just imagine if ANYTHING bad happens at your protest jump. A wall strike, a broken leg, a tree landing, or another fatality will definitely close the door to BASE jumping forever.

While I admire everyone's willingness to participate, I still believe there are other legal methods of protest that have not been attempted. Have any of you applied for a permit to BASE jump in Yosemite?

to echo some things already mentioned...

1) I thought rangers CONFISCATE gear as soon as they find it. if so, they can quickly turn potential jumpers into hikers. is this true?

2) you suggest the protest will force them to talk to you. have you even asked? might that be reasonable BEFORE protesting?

3) who will the NPS talk with? who will represent the jumpers?

4) what happens if such a protest simply deepens the NPS resolve against jumping? (it takes time to purge out staff and hostile feelings.)

5) what effective protest are you modelling this one after? what example are you attempting to follow? has any SPORT held such a successful protest?

if you claim jumping as a "civil right," you might weaken your argument. many civil rights supporters will see this as demeaning their goals and accomplishments. they will not like comparing jumping to the struggle for free and fair voting...

unless you have a strong PR group to guide (as NickDG suggested elsewhere), the press could spin this into a bunch of over-indulgent, selfish, egoists seeking attention. many law and order types will view this action with the same disdain as illegal aliens.

6) what are the plans for a POSITIVE image?

7) how will you ensure the participants act according to the above plans? (renegades can destroy your plans.)

I understand much anger exists. I'd like to understand how you plan on focusing that energy. generally, that requires a gameplan. what are the SMART goals? (Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic, and Timebound.)

Does everyone knows that the Management Policy has changed?


Why not raise and donate money to the NPS to be used by the superintendent and a park planning process to determine if B.A.S.E. jumping is an appropriate activity that does not cause unacceptable impacts?

I second your opinion.

I second your opinion.

This is already on the front burner

 

We do.

I think what everyone fails to realize is that this is not an us against them protest. It is an "us" against an unjust law and a platform for raising public awareness.

I know that I, as well as the founders of this protest, respect the opinion of all of you. However, since this is so new, please allow us some time to fully organize the concept, pr plan, and information for your review.

428, I know that you have applied for permits and been denied and I know that others have as well. We are not protesting for a controversial issue such as stem cell research to where it legitimately is a public good / ethical issue. We are protesting for the right to Parachute in the back county, which, the media and public interest will only be generated if the jumps are made. Respectfully, a packing protest will not generate media/public interest.

Again to reiterate, please allow all information to be compiled and distributed. This is an organized protest by business owners (including myself) that have a lot of big business, media, and legal experience. We are not approaching this from the typical "angry mentality" that you may have seen in the past. This issue is being organized and addressed in a professional manner.

Why do B.A.S.E. jumpers need to increase public awareness?

Wouldn't a jumping protest be considered an inappropriate activity that decreases relations with the NPS?

Wouldn't a packing protest be considered an appropriate activity that increases relations with the NPS?

Yeah, whatever. I'm sure a vague, subjective policy change will set the supers straight.

In my case it is totally a jump against them.

When I was a cop, we called them squirrels. The type of "public servant" who ran radar on Sundays to scratch little old ladies running late for church, while the real cops were serving felony warrants on late-sleeping rapists/murderers/dope dealers.

When we finally win and take away their pet pursuit...and the only adrenaline those jamokes get...chasing those dangerous BASE jumpers...they can go back to jacking up workers in the park for half a joint in their pocket and arresting drivers with .0002 BAC.

Fucking dinks. They arrested a Reno cop for BASE jumping. Like it or not, in law-enforcement circles that lumps them in with Robert Hanssen.

Hey Rangers...LAPD is always hiring, and you get to chase real criminals.

Oh wait, if you could do that, you wouldn't be glorified Wal-Mart greeters. My Bad.

Dude. You, of all people, should know the answers to 80% of your questions.

http://www.backcountryparachutists.org/

Yeah, I'm down for the Tee/DVD too. However, for personal reasons I do not do business with/through Google.
Send me a PayPal invoice, CC site, or provide a USPS mailing address and I'll have funds on the way today.

BASE359

this is the attitude that got "us" banned in the first place.


does anybody know why, "they" allow hangliders pilots permits off G P in yosemite? cuz for one there's more of them and their organized and they don't have that "ya-hoo" attitude in you face thing goin' on.

people talk about the good ol' day's and stuff......but the "good ol' day's" attitude of drugs, drinkin', and nudity and other vulgarity's in a National Park, where family's (with young girls and boys) are around, aint cool.

if someone exposed their vulgar naked vulgarness to my young daughter????? i'd Kill them!!! you just don't do that there!


so until we stop this selfish in your face vulgar stuff, and change our public perception we will never be issued permits like the hangliding community gets to. and hanglidin' aint safe.

has anybody tried to join up with , or pick the brains of hangliders, or even paragliding groups (paragliding is not allowed)? even to possibly join alliances to make us a bigger force to reckened with? we are small in numbers! But with other's, like paragiders on our side???? there alot more of them than us? i'm sure the hangliding community want's nothing to do with us?

yosemite, zion, mt. baker, grand canyon, etc. are beautiful places but this mass protest????????? this is only gonna piss "them" off more. so the next time one of "us" get's caught later "they" are gonna treat "us" like crap! as it is now some of "them" don't care. true!, i shit you not. and some do. but "they" will all be pressured to care if this thing goes down or goes down wrong. i think everybody who does this should really consider how this affects all the BASE community? and not their agenda.

are you gonna screen your potential jumpin' prostesters, so you don't have some low timer newbie unfamiliar with their gear, mess things up. or somebody pull to high cuz their scarred and winded in the wrong direction. what time of day would you do this. in the aftternoon???? when the winds are really kickin'???

if you do a mass protest, sumthing will go wrong , it's murphy's law. some newbie or whatever factor X. but go ahead i know i can't stop you guy's.

AND AS A SIDE NOTE: ONE OF THE BIGGEST COMPLAINERS AT THE PARK ARE THE ROCKCLIMBERS. BECAUSE we REFUSE TO JUMP FROM DIFFERENT EXIT POINTS AND JUMP OVER THEM. CONSTANTLY SCARRING THE CRAP OUT THEM (THEY THINK ROCKS/BOULDERS ARE RAINING DOWN ON THEM,THAT'S WHAT WE SOUND LIKE TO THEM). INSTEAD OF DOING RESEARCH ON WHERE THEY CLIMB AND WHERE THE CLIMBING ROUTES AREN'T. we JUST JUMP WHERE EVER. NOT THINKING OF ANYONE ELSE OR JUST BECAUSE their TOO LAZY!
WELL alot of the RANGERS ARE CLIMBERS. JUST SO YA KNOW. THAT'S WHY THEY GOT THEIR cop type jobs IN A PLACE LIKE THIS.

SO DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE JUMPING ANYWHERE. THIS PLACE DESERVES RESPECT.




BLAH , BLAH , BLAH. i swore i'd never post again!

Then for the next 50 years, they're not allowed to climb, because I will get scared seeing them on the wall. Who says that they are right, or have more rights?

It breaks my heart, that the most courageous, adventurous, rebellious, and intelligent groups that I can imagine, BASE jumpers, are too scared to stand up for what is right.

Think if Rosa Parks was too "scared" to go through what she believed was right. Or too scared that the southern law enforcement in the 60s. She should have just kept sending letters to request her permit to not sit at the back of the bus.

Was she right or wrong to do what she did?

Are you really comparing the ability to engage in an activity in a National Park to ... nevermind.

I was wondering that too.

some of you people need to get some perspective in your lives. jesus

Well...from the perspective of your average white man in 1955, she should have given up her seat.

So your right, it really is about perspective. Namely the perspective that Basejumping is dangerous and will destroy the tranquility of the Park, vs. the perspective that it's kind of dangerous and it will not severely disturb the tranquility of the park.

So what you need to think about, is how do we change the perspective of the NPS...

I'll be your friend Count me in totally.

Easy, Boys . . .

It's obvious your opinion on the Yosemite situation will depend on when you came upon it.

Generally, the ones who want to give the finger to the NPS, don't want to "pay" money, and are demanding we be allowed to jump, are, and believe me, you guys ten years from now.

If you're fairly new to the issue it will seem like negotiation and good will is the way to go. But, I've been around this issue for better than 30 years and I'm fed up. I've got nothing left for playing nice. I've already lost my opportunity to enjoy jumping El Cap significantly because I'm staring at the end of my BASE career. The fight, at least for me, is now for the next generation.

I realize for many, you don’t know how "dirty" the NPS plays their game, and you won't until they grab you someday. They don’t act like you just got caught fishing without a license. They totally go overboard, to the point of being berserk, when it comes to BASE jumpers.

We have, or at least I have, never really used the argument that if others can hunt, fish, climb, camp, hike, hang glide, and so forth, than what the hell, we can jump. I always thought partly, don’t mess up another guy's good thing, but mainly I thought it was just so painfully obvious.

But the mistake made last time was BASE jumping was touted as safe, when their main argument should have been it's appropriate. BASE jumping in Yosemite is appropriate for the same reason hunting, fishing, climbing, hiking, camping and hang gliding is appropriate. It is simply geographically appropriate. Plenty of people, and per capita, more than us, will die in the long run in those other activities. And that's been the NPS' main argument. That BASE jumping is too dangerous. But since they took over the land beneath the bridge at Bridge Day there's been years and years of Bridge Days in the books proving them wrong. And they know it.

No fellas, the time is now, the place is here, and it's time to turn up the heat . . .

NickD
BASE 194

I agree with Nick 100%. I am jumping for sure. On 6/9 we will make history. We have a right to protest, nobody can take that away. With protest comes change. The NPS will not like it, but it is the only way.

I'm also still curious as to who is organizing this?

To me the web site suggest a bit of "angry mentality" ....just my opinion of course but with titles like "Rebels with a cause" and a name created with a logo/font that's basically ripping off a Trademark it makes me wonder how professional the organization is.

Guys, I love your cause....I might even be willing to stand behind you but let's not trip on ourselves getting there. Personally for me to support Uhuckit.com I'll have to know more than I do today. I'll have to have more confidence that this is the right move for our intended direction.

I'm in too.

Its an election year...elected officials are receptive to their constituents issues during election years.

I understand that the ABP has written letters to over 400 officials. That is ineffective in my opinion, because the ABP has nothing to do with getting those officials elected. But their constituents do have a say in who gets elected. And if you are willing to write a letter and harass your elected official about your concerns, then you will obviously be out voting as well (which most people don't do!) So your elected official already cares more about you than they do about 60% of the public, because that 60% doesn't vote.

You never know. Somewhere some congressman or senator might have their own beef with the NPS or the Dept of the Interior or something...and take our cause up for spite if nothing else. Or maybe that congressman or Senator has their own dreams that they too would like to realize, and takes up our cause with passion and vigor for the right reasons.

I'll bet 99% of you have never attempted any "negotiation or good will" with the NPS at Yosemite. Don't you think that a structured, legal approach to protesting is worth a shot first? I don't recall ever hearing about any legal protests in the past. And I've never heard of anyone actually applying for a permit to jump in Yosemite (other than 1-2 other jumpers). Have all protest jumpers actually jumped El Cap before? Even though it's 3200' AGL, throwing first-time El Cap jumpers off on a protest jump might be risky.

At least some of us will have six months notice to try some of the legal protest strategies....

>>I'm also still curious as to who is organizing this?<<

I understand asking that question completely . . .

But for me, I'd almost rather not know. It's the cause that counts and sometimes personalities distract from that. I don't care if the freaking Taliban are behind it as long as it raises awareness of the issue and/or has a chance of working.

And maybe it's smart to stay on the down low for now as those NPS bastards might think to come after them in a pre-emptive strike. Check them for warrants, charge them with conspiracy to commit aerial delivery. Or sic there brothers over at the IRS on them.

And as I now know Robin Heid is dead set against uHuck.com that's good enough for me. I think I'll go buy another t-shirt for my girlfriend!

Let's Rally in the Valley . . .

NickD
BASE 194

I am going to spend my lunch break writing my polite, articulate, and respectful letter to request a permit to jump El Cap and Half Dome for early June.

And when I get my denial, I will make sure I bring it with me to court.

To you, the denied request means that you made a genuine effort to ask politely if you were allowed to jump and the bastards STILL denied you for no reason. So yeah, what were you supposed to do???

To a judge, the denied request is proof that you blatantly and disrespectfully disregarded the negative answer from a recognized and respected institution.

Don't take this the wrong way. Plus, I might also be wrong.

Right on.

I can't jump as this kind of a bust would cost me my job, but it looks like I will be able to fly in and show up for the protest and hopefully throw some $$ the way of the cause.

Do you think it's worthwhile, for as many of us as possible 'right now' to apply for permits to jump?

_justin

I Think thats a Great Idea. We should all participate in these as well. If one gets organized, I will show support.

Somebody explain this to me . . .

Amendment I (Bill of Rights, The United States if America)

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

So why do we need a permit (and the NPS says specifically you need a permit for 1st amendment activities) to protest in Yosemite valley, or anywhere else for that matter? Sometimes I think we have bigger problems than just jumping . . .

NickD
BASE 194

viewing the website does NOT answer the questions, unless both websites are run by the same folks.

are they the same people?

you can look at this two ways, a conspiracy is developed in secret, well this is all over the internet...no secret here but on the other hand the definition in terms of law is two or more persons agreeing to commit a crime, haha, our lawyer is gonna have to be mack daddy to get over on that one but what the hell. note, i use lawyer, we should all be tried as one if we can, a united front.

i do like the idea that BASE428 had, to apply for permits. everyone of us that plans to jump should apply for a permit for the jump, when we all show up in court with our rejection letters we will definitely be making a point towards the bias that the nps has concerning BASE jumpers.

i really hope this happens. i'm sick and tired of being discriminated against because of my sport. i pay my fucking taxes and a portion of them goes to keeping the parks open for my use.

jadeinsky posted info on applying for a permit here:

http://www.basejumper.com/...=2880573;page=unread

i will be there, whether i jump or not will depend on the exit point, the wind, and my skill level.

btw, how technical is el cap? slider up, how much of delay? what is the seconds to impact? talus? my understanding is the lz is a nice meadow but i seem to recall Brian Shubert broke his ankle(s) on his historical jump.

maybe because the NPS is tasked with managing various park activities. the permit process coordinates disruptions, ensures proper staffing levels, closes appropriate roads, prevents multiple simultaneous protests, ensures the protest does NOT endanger others, etc. it's fairly common that excersizing a right infringes upon another's right. preventing conflicts is one function of the permit process.

I welcome that approach to the problem. I'm just not convinced another protest will change much.

and when DID you play nice?
did you try to control the "renegades" during the first permit process?
did you support the "protest" that ended in a fatality?
did you warn FG about the dangers of jumping in the valley?
how did the rangers "abuse" you?

or have you simply complained?
I sure have heard you speak of the injustice OTHERS have faced.

what happened to a CREATIVE BASE community? one that creates new innovation? one that debates the implication of each new feature? one that studies all possible outcomes? one the acts only when reasonably assured of success? one that congratulates people for backing down when "things just did not feel right?"

remember, one definition of insanity is "repeating behavior, expecting a different outcome." when I read your posts, this "protest" appears insane.

we talk of needing the older generations of rangers to retire. that we need a change in attitude at the NPS. maybe we need the same process in our community!

yes we owe a lot to the originators of this sport. we owe a ton to those whose injuries inspired gear improvements. we need to know our history. we need to learn from the mistakes that cost people their lives.

I think sticking with a basic, bland, protest ignores the mistakes of the past and insults the innovation that created this sport. if we have nothing better to contribute after 30 years, woe is us.

So, does that mean you aren't coming then?

NickD
BASE 194

I'll bet 99% of you have never attempted any "negotiation or good will" with the NPS at Yosemite. Don't you think that a structured, legal approach to protesting is worth a shot first? I don't recall ever hearing about any legal protests in the past. And I've never heard of anyone actually applying for a permit to jump in Yosemite (other than 1-2 other jumpers). Have all protest jumpers actually jumped El Cap before? Even though it's 3200' AGL, throwing first-time El Cap jumpers off on a protest jump might be risky.


Ummm wasn't this protest jump your Idea?

El Cap is NO easy jump. It doesnt matter if its mid-day, or your at the exit point with 30 other jumpers to talk you through things. It should not be made by Beginners, or by inexperienced jumpers. Do not under estimate that Rock.

And I believe that Brian was injured because he jumped in high winds using a round. But I could be wrong. I wasnt there!

Nope. Protest jumps should be an option only after we've exhausted other legal efforts.

There are things that are being worked on that we cannot disclose at this point, however, they will be disclosed at the right time. There have been several people on the fence that have contacted me. After briefing them on several things that we are doing and how we are approaching this, they have now come over to our side and offered full support. Thank you everyone for your patience.

 


I’m not trying to talk for all climbers but have been climbing in Yosemite for many years and have never heard a serious complaint about jumpers scaring them. In fact, it’s usually considered a treat when they… um, we go by and happen to be on the wall.

I’ve been more startled by natural (not that BASE jumping isn’t natural) noises like peregrines dive-bombing, bats flying out of cracks, bees, birds, etc. You have to be focused and alert while climbing, jumpers are the least of the concern.

The one complaint I have heard is jumpers leaving gear or garbage behind. But, I’ve seen more climbers break the “leave no trace” rule as much or more than jumpers.

We’re all in this together.

I just read this thread and as a so far non base jumper haven't had any issues with the NPS so correct me if I'm wrong but:
To all the people who said it would just get worse with the Rangers, how could it get worse? I mean just because they like you less they can't fine you harder, can't treat you worse and after all jumping is illegal at the moment and it doesn't really look like the NPS will changer their mind anytime soon. So how could it get worse?
I agree that it might close doors for sitting together and talk about the issue, but I am pretty sure that in the last 30 years there were enough smart people trying to take this route but it doesn't seem to work since it is still illegal. So I would say the question is if the possible but very unprobable chance of a successfull agreement with the NPS is worth not risking the (hopfully positiv) PR from the protest jump. And I would say the chances that the protest jump works is quite a bit bigger than the sitting together. And after all, even if it does not work out as hoped, I doubt it would have a big negative influence on BASE.

http://www.house.gov/writerep/

This should help...

I assume you are guessing at this point... How can you be so sure?

“Hold fast to dreams, For if dreams die, Life is a broken-winged bird that cannot fly, Hold fast to dreams, For if dreams go, Life is a barren field, Frozen with snow” Langston Hughes


Not you, but some here sound like they have given up without a fight, for a dream they haven't yet begun to believe.

here is a buzzword, you have to win their hearts and minds. Find one sympathizer, and another... a Possible Force Multiplier...


"In order to win an argument, you must transcend personal feelings and rise to the higher plain, where logic resides. If the opposing side happens to see the reason behind the logic, then true understanding is reached, for one must win minds before hearts can follow.--K bell "

I understand the motive, but in the end, I believe a protest jump will not get the results we want. I think that a Protest jump, while it may satisfy some very justified frustration, it won't work for the future BASE generations in todays world of Government. We saw how the last protest jump went and while I totally understand the fact that we in the land of the free, should not have to spend Thousands to go to Norway, Switz, Italy, Mex. etc. to get tall cliffs, a protest jump at Yosemite will likely be spun badly by the press. Look at the last Empire State Bldg. jump and all the bad, "unfair" publicity. Hell, in the 80's, the first Empire State Bldg jump, even though one was arrested, they were celebrated and MM and company were sort of treated like heroes and were even on Johnny Carson. Different world today. After the last failure, all a protest jump will do is harden positions. I totally understand the sentiment and please don't think I've gone soft over the years. I so understand the beliefs about taking what should be rightfully ours in our National Parks, but it just doesn't work that way. Believe me, we were rebels here in Texas when BASE first started catching on in 82, but like I said, it ain't the same world. Carl Boenish not only got Yosemite legal for awhile, he got Canyon de Chelly legal, the first legal building jump in Memphis and did it all through negotiations and finding out what "they"needed to be able to say yes whether its the NPS or some BANK. BASE is evolving in a good way due to some very skilled folks and great gear, Until the skilled leaders in BASE can work with business leaders and authorities to convince them that BASE is no longer a suicide sport, our Govt. and the lawyers in this country will always make it tough for us to get legal sites.

If the protest jump goes on, I do hope someone is in charge trying to weed out people that shouldn't be on the wall. One poster didn't even know anything about the cliff, so let's accept a little responsibility for the fact that we also have f--ked up some in the past.
Cliffleaper
#38

Yes it definitly is an assumption just because I am too young to have followed how BASE Jumpers tried to get their rights in the past 30 years.
But my assumption based on two things: The knowledge that there are some really smart BASE Jumpers out there and that smart people usually talk about things like this first.

well spoken Nick as always. I am definitely in but unfortunately I can't jump out of the same reasons many here can't.
I will be there 100% to support you guys with anything you need.... I'll do gear checks at the exit point or GC... I don't care.
it's time for this to go down... 6/9 will be the day :)

What is it with you and "harden[ing] positions"; back in 2007?

You've Gone Soft, Harrison!

Harden The Fuck Up!


Lots of good reading in this (these) thread(s).

And this is a very important statement...

.

Dude, why resurrect all these 10+ year old threads?

The discussion has changed--maybe it's time to start new threads?

Dude, maybe I'm making a point.

Dude, maybe, I See something you aren't.

Dude! Maybe, if you answered my last PM, you'd understand.

Has It, Dude... Has It Really?


.

Coco you crazy.

And Then...

I See How It Is, Aiello... I've Got My Eye On You, Dude.


There is so much in Jason's post to speak to!

Where did you resurrect this from? I can't find this "last NPS thread" you spoke of...
http://www.basejumper.com/...post=1004649#1004649

And, Yes... my resurrection of your resurrection, is most definitely material within "making a point."

And, No... I was not looking through your posts. However, I absolutely did after finding this; had quite the laugh, and an asthma attack, after seeing how many times you've said "dude" and "resurrect" in the same post.

Good Stuff!

But yeah, I'll eventually stick to exorcising; in Yosemite.
.