Basejumper.com - archive

{BC Of The G National Park}
Two Plead Guilty To BASE Jumping In Park

Early on the morning of last August 18th, climbing ranger Brent Xxxx was alerted to the possibility that a BASE jump was going to occur in the park. He found a good vantage point and saw two men – Kevin Xxxxxx and John Xxxxxx – attempting to hide what he believed to be parachutes in the canyon below the {really tall} Wall on the north rim, {this state's} highest cliff and a well-known BASE-jumping site. He contacted them when they left the canyon and both admitted to making the jump and to hiding their parachutes in the gulley below. The parachutes and associated gear were confiscated but returned to the two men after their court hearing due to their cooperation. On October 2nd, both Xxxxxx and Xxxxxxx pled guilty to violating the regulation prohibiting BASE jumping (36 CFR 2.17a3). They were each ordered to pay $1,285 in fines, with the court requiring that $2,000 of this total be deposited in the {local} Search and Rescue Fund, which is used to support the park’s volunteer climbing ranger team. [Submitted by Linda Alick, Chief Ranger]


edited to remove names, identifying info, etc. - WW}

 
"...used to support the park’s volunteer climbing ranger team." Letting them keep the money is a great incentive.

Lee

not like Yosemite or some other place, they got there gear back thats good

 

BASE666 is Dan Xxxxxx, a BASE investigator for the NPS so we need to be careful about what we post on the internet.



edited to remove name - WW

Makes sense. BASE 666 died on a skydive several years ago, if I remember correctly. Your tax dollars at work....




edited to remove name - WW

A public forum, huh. Ok, then lets have a discussion. A real discussion; not just "NickNitro" calling people gay - something he would have us believe he considers bad.

Dan, my name is Bill and I am a Backcountry parachutist. I currently reside in Colorado. I have made over 600 legal "base" jumps here in the US, and in 3 other countries. I say "base" because I am not a BASE Jumper; I have never jumped a building. I guess I'm not that kind of guy. I go to Switzerland, France, and Italy to jump tall cliffs (my favorite) because I can't jump the best ones my National Parks have to offer. I visited about 10 National Parks this summer on my America the Beautiful Annual Pass ($80 this year compared to $50 last year).

The reason these 2 got busted is because they self-registered for a permit. They were trying to follow the rules of the park. The ethical rules of the park. Not the silly one about "aerial delivery" I needed the Oxford English dictionary to understand the damn law because it was written so long ago... If you punish people for following the rules that make sense, they will stop playing by any of the rules.

Your silly law makes people add danger to a sport that is already quite skill-intensive. You know that people are going to jump; lets get together and make it as safe as we can. Lets keep our brothers and sisters from dieing namelessly in the night.

Believe it or not, we're in this together Dan. It is the National Park Systems responsibility (and your policy) to try to adapt to changing times. We need to realize that Backcountry Parachuting is not a passing fad, but a sport. We need to hold jumpers to the same ethical rules as all other hikers. (I think you'll find that jumpers are practiced at "leave no trace")

You need to open your doors to us - because I don't want to see the door damaged when we kick it in.

I'm not a criminal Dan. I'm a boring 32-year old engineer. Lets treat each other like adults.

There you go; no insults, no threats. Just one man saying "please" to another. (I bet NickNitro will have a joke about that one...)

See ya
-Bill

WORD.


well said, SullyFlyer.

I think that was the first post in this thread that meant anything at all.

Dan, my name is Nick Rugai and I am a "good time haver". I currently reside in Florida. I have made over 1 legal "base" jumps here in the US, and in several other countries. I say "base" because I am not a BASE Jumper even though I did jump a few buildings. I guess I'm not that kind of guy, yes I'm straight even if one of my nicknames is "Gay Nick". I go to Switzerland, France, and Italy to jump tall cliffs (my favorite) because I can't jump the best ones my National Parks have to offer. I visited over 10 National Parks in my time on my own gas money.

The reason these 2 got busted is because they self-registered for a permit, which is like calling the cops before robbing a bank. They were trying to follow the rules of the park. The ethical rules of the park. Sure like calling Dondal Trump before we jumped one of his builings "Hey Don, nice hair cut, we're about to flick your new hotel! Oh yes Maggot just took a dump on top of it and I used his own crap to write BASE because I am not a BASE jumper, I just like to have a good time". I needed the Oxford English dictionary to understand how to spell maggot because it was written so long ago... If you punish people for following the rules that make sense, they will stop playing by any of the rules or alternatively you know there are no universal rules and life is all about enjoying it.

Your silly law makes people add danger but also to some extent excitement because running away from the authorities for doing absolutely nothing wrong is actually kinda fun to a sport that takes very little to no skills. You know that people are going to jump; lets get together and make it as fun as we can. Lets keep our brothers and sisters from dieing namelessly day or night.

Believe it or not, we're NOT in this together Dan. It is the National Park Systems responsibility (and your policy) to try to adapt to changing times. We need to realize that Backcountry Parachuting is not a passing fad, but a game. We need to hold jumpers to the same ethical rules as all other hikers. (I think you'll find that jumpers are practiced at "leave no trace"). Why don't you guys arrest every single bird that takes off from your National cliffs? Yes Dan, we're birds no more no less, and some of us even got wings.

You need to open your doors to us - because I don't want to see the door damaged when we kick it in. I cannot pick-lock worth of shit, I use the Bronx pick-lock set, a 60" pry bar.

I'm not a criminal Dan. I'm a boring 30-something-year old dumb fuck. Lets treat each other like retarded for once because we are all fucking retarded, you, me and the rest of mankind.

There you go; no insults, no threats. Just one man saying "please" to another. (I bet NickNitro will have a joke about that one...), no I don't.

See ya
-Nick

Let's check the scoreboard shall we?

Thousands of successful jumps in Yosemite and what? A couple dozen busts?

We win, you lose . . .

And when the day comes, and it will, when I can walk right passed you with my BASE rig on, don't bother waving hello!

NickD
BASE 194

"The reason these 2 got busted is because they self-registered for a permit"

Have you been to the Black? Do you know anything about the Black? I think you're out of your element here. There are a lot of reasons why we got busted. Some of the reason, we (mainly me) could be teased for but if you know anything about the inner canyon permits in the Black, you would realize that that is not "the reason" we got busted.

o.k.

the NPS authorities read these forums, just as BASE jumpers read theirs. some believe a NPS employee started this thread. why? I don't know. maybe he was acting like some jumpers who like to either stir up stuff, or "stick it in their eye."

the topic is bound to generate powerful emotions, powerful visceral reactions. please stop and think before posting, just as you think before a jump. sometimes it is better to walk away from a jump, or a post.

I'd like to see a discussion, an exchange of ideas. this thread took a wrong turn already, so I locked it to give folks time to calm down. let's not repeat yesterday...

BASE in the NPS.

The law.

It isn’t legal and the rangers that enforce that are not the same that can change the law. An analogy is speeding. The police don’t make the laws, they enforce them. If you get pulled over, suggesting that the police go chase real criminals like murders and thieves and leave you alone is not a good defense. You were breaking the law and got caught. Telling a Park Ranger to go after the real criminals is not going to get you out the situation.

Getting the laws changed.

It can be done, just like getting any other law changed. It takes some effort and people getting caught and/or taunting the Rangers will not help those efforts. I think that some jumpers do not want the law changed because breaking the law, escaping and evading add to the excitement and experience of the jump. There are a lot of issues involved in getting the law changed. It will take organizing, money and a determined effort. That is not something I am convinced the BASE community can achieve.

The Rangers.

Every Ranger I have spoken with, including Dan, has been professional, respectful, courteous, and helpful. I have not had to deal with the Rangers after an illegal jump. Everyone knows that if you jump in Yosemite, you have a couple of choices for when you land. Stand there and wait for the Rangers to catch you, or run like hell and get out of there. If you choose to run, and fall off a cliff, sprain an ankle, get eaten by a bear, or drown in a river, that was your choice. If I am speeding on my CBR and a trooper lights me up and I run and crash, it is NOT the trooper’s fault. Not even 1%. I made the choice. I have to live with the consequences of the choice. I know my choices and I will live with the results, good or bad.

The Jumpers.

The BASE community includes a lot of different personalities and maturity levels. Jumpers have different motivations for jumping with different goals. If your approach to BASE jumping and your goals are different from mine, that is OK. That is part of BASE jumping, individualism. I do ask that you don’t screw things up for others. We are looked upon as a group. How you conduct yourselves with the Rangers affects how BASE jumpers are perceived just as BASE jumpers tend to associate one Ranger’s behavior as representative of all Rangers. If the Rangers expect us to act responsibly and respectfully if we are caught from past experiences from dealing with BASE jumpers, they will tend to go lighter on us. This is simply human nature.

The Future.

Will the law get changed? I doubt it. Will that stop me or others? Nope. Just have to take certain precautions. If the law does change, but not as a free-for-all, but so that BASE is legal within certain, reasonable, guidelines, would BASE jumpers adhere to those guidelines? History shows us that no, BASE jumpers being BASE jumpers, they won’t adhere to even reasonable requests. Be careful, make your choices and live with them.

Derek

 

Abbie,

If Satan himself logs in here and starts posting, he will still be entitled to the protection of the forum rules regarding personal attacks.

"Get cancer and die soon" and "fuck you" are clearly personal attacks, which I'm sure you know.

If you want to use this forum to communicate, please learn to post in an adult manner.

I've banned you from this forum for 14 days.

but today is November 8th. It's the national "get banned from base forum" day.

They chose the job...they will receive the criticisms.

That's freedom of speech.

Tom, have you forgotten that these are PARK RANGERS, and are clearly beneath the level of Satan and the rules of the forum should not automatically apply...tut tut tut.

Maybe in the land of the free and the brave, Satan isn't the antithesis of God, maybe its NPS (or George Bush in a ranger outfit)

Since the rangers are nameless or anonymous I'd say they deserve no protection from "personal" attacks. Abbie's post is right on, well said and shows some balls. Unfortunate that he's being critcized for speaking out against injustice.

Looks like lots of people here are anonymous, including you. And they all follow the same rules. Should we allow personal attacks against you because you choose not to publicize your name? Aren't many BASE jumpers in favor of remaining anonymous in these public discussions? Should we allow personal attacks on them, too?

I see no name in your profile. you won't see one in mine either. I guess we are both anonymous. you and I will still be protected from personal attacks.

and Abbie is NOT being "critcized for speaking out against injustice." he was banned for his lack of civility. if he had left out one line, he would not have been banned. then we would have been discussing his ideas. interestingly, he put it at the end as a sort of challenge. it's a shame he chose to use that line to grab people's attention and divert it away from the rest of his post...

I wish people would comment on the other things he said...


edited to add - it seems like TA beat me to it...

The reason base jumping is illegal in national parks is because it is misunderstood. When we got busted, the rangers couldn't believe we were alive. They (the rangers and the people that make the laws) think it is some reckless activity. The truth is, it's not. BASE jumpers are usually pretty smart people who use fairly good judgment. (Obviously there are exceptions before you think of citing examples of bad judgment). BASE jumping has become a lot safer in the past 5 years. Especially terminal cliffs. If you jump with a tracking suit, you eliminate the most prominent danger of BASE jumping- hitting the cliff (As long as you don't really suck at tracking). Bridges can be pretty safe too. A big part of what it will take to legalize jumping in national parks is convincing them that our sport isn't merely a reckless activity. We need to show that it's a sport whose participants are smart, competent athletes.

An public article I read recently about Tom's BASE academy can't help that cause. Tom asked his students to write a letter to their families explaining that they died BASE jumping. Talk about over dramatic! We all know that with good training and good judgment, it is perfectly feasible to have a life long BASE career. Let's not write any more public articles about how crazy we are and how likely it is that we will die because we are BASE jumpers. The only reason someone would do that is because they are seeking attention. It makes sense- an article about a sport that is so dangerous will get more press and attention than one about some students safely doing some jumps off a bridge in a very controlled environment. I'm not trying to be a jerk, Tom, but you can see how something like that hurts our cause.

Absolutely anonymity here is to be respected.

Abbie didn't actually threaten to give the rangers cancer so I respect his wish that they acquire it. And as to the hearty FUCK YOU Abbie expressed I don't believe that he intended to do the actual fucking although I can't say I know that for sure.

Wwarped, Abbie wasn't banned for his lack of civility he was banned for a personal attack. Lots of posts here aren't exactly polite. You and Tom think punishment was reasonable, I don't. Being censored for two weeks which prevents him from discussing his excellent post is pretty severe punishment for expressing his unmistakable anger.

You are both right about anonymity being of no regard as concerns personal attacks, i stand corrected. That applies to base666 on this forum not the two rangers torturing a jumper for information. As far as how moderators choose to define personal attacks I hope you use your authority carefully, censorship is easily abused and usually destructive.

The detraction of attention from the text of Abbie's post is a result of his being banned not because of his supposedly inflamatory remarks. His closing statement makes the rest of his post all the more powerful. Diverting responsibility from the censorship back to Abbie is a cheap shot.

To Linda Alick and NPSBASE666,

Interestingly, we live about 4 hours from each other, and have the same love for the same cliffs. Perhaps we choose to celebrate them in different ways. And maybe the injustices with OUR National Parks is just a simple misunderstanding.

Lets forget about the gay enforcement of rules on this forum. Its not about that. Its about America, and about freedom.

To all NPS Rangers and BASE Investigators:

BASE isn't safe. I love to BASE jump. But I wouldn't whitewater raft, rock climb, or ride another sportbike. But I could if I wanted to, and I could even do it within OUR National Parks. I have very little respect for you, since you have shown very little to my BASE brothers and sisters. However, I would love to invite you to share my love for BASE at the exit point in Twin Falls at the Perrine Bridge, and I can even invite a Twin Falls County Sheriff's Deputy if you would feel more comfortable with law enforcement presence at the BASE jump. And after the jump, and a spiritual climb out of a beautiful American canyon, we can go to the Outback where we can get half price beers. I would love to tell you how much fun it was, even if you don't understand, and might even think I was crazy.

I think we might realize that we have a lot in common, even if we celebrate life in different ways.

Please, Mr Ranger- PM me and I will buy you a ticket to Twin Falls, and after the jump, I will also buy you a beer. I would love to hear about the crazy hobbies that you have, that I don't understand, which you are allowed to do within OUR National Parks.

Thank you,
BASE935

 
You know we advertise here and all that so we are rather partial to this site and would much prefer that the conversation stay here but we could all just move this conversation over to the EG forum. I don't thing any one has ever been banned from there.

http://www.egwingsuits.com/forum/index.php

Lee

Tom, you realize this is impossible? If he tries to abide by your request, we'll never hear from him again.

???

Derek

Re-read my post, I retracted that statement. But the protection from personal attacks applies only to posters on this forum and "personal attack" might be hard to define. Abbie has the right to call the Yosemite rangers he wrote about anything he wants. If those rangers decide to post here then you can decide how respectfully you would like to treat them.

Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines
imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
________________________________________________

Those particular Rangers were wrong!!

Cornishe/Abbie was right!!

Don't need a law to tell me that. Go ahead risk being banned, abuse them verbally. I guess I should start. How 'bout lowlife scumsucking ...... nah too general. Vicious Nazi inhumane bastards? Nope not taunting enough. Oh well I'll think of something to describe those pieces of shit.