Basejumper.com - archive

For sometime now Ive been upset about this, and finally I feel the need to just vent a little and tell some people other then my local jump buddies. Its something that I think has been happening for too long now, and even in my 4 short years in the sport, I notice it becoming more and more all the time. I wish I had a good idea or way of stopping it, but I dont. I dont mean to attack anyone personally, but if you fall under this catogory then you know who you are. Or maybe you dont know, and thats just further proving my point. This is just my opinion alone, and I realize Im opening up myself to get thrashed on this website, cause that seems to be all that ever happens here anyways. But I just want to know if you guys and girls, "our base community" feel the same way or not.



Being a "Base jumper" is not just about making Base jumps, its about having a certain mentallity that you live by and jump with. Its a precision of everything you do, while jumpering or not. Its your actions while having the rig on your back or in the closet. Its a way of life. It is "YOU". There is a difference in Skydiving and Base jumping isnt there? Which would be safe to say that there is also a difference between the attitudes and mentalities between the two. Now Im not saying that a the Skydiver attitude or mentality is wrong, less, or poor in anyway, shape, or form, but that it seems to be of a slightly different caliber all together. It seems to me, and many others, that a Skydiving mentality, although not wrong, is also not right, when used with the sport of BASE. We as base jumpers always argue that they are totally different sports, right? Which in turn should mean they have different mentalities and actions that are needed to be successful.
Now Ive made plenty of mistakes in my life and even a few in the sport, we all have. And even with a Base Jumper mentality, you can still easily get hurt, killed, or busted, and objects will always get burned, re-opened, and burned again. Theirs just no way around that. Its the inevitable cycle that base goes through. But by having a Skydivers mentality in the sport of Base, or any other mentality other then a Base mentality, will only maximize the opportunity for those things to come about and present themselves. There are too many Skydivers that are making Base jumps these days, and not enough Base jumpers. Maybe this is because we have started to turn our sport into skydiving with the promtion of FJC's, instead of private mentorships, paying for pack jobs, or packing for jumpers that dont know how to pack, Riggers or other jumpers putting together gear for people that cant do it themselves. To me, these things are all so wrong, and do not show a Base mentality, but instead a lazy skydivers mentality. Now I know that all the instructors of the FJC's tell every single one of there students to go and further there Base training by obtaining a mentor after there completion of the course. And thats good that they do. And for a student to go through both, a FJC and Mentorship is in my opinion the way to go. And some of those students do,"the smart ones". But lets look at the reality of things. Its not really happening for the majority of the FJC grads. They get done at Idaho, and go back home to there dropzones and call themselves Base jumpers...
More jumpers are getting hurt and killed because of there skydiving mentality and attitudes. More objects then normal are getting burned because of having this lacsidaical, non-shulaunt, non-percise mentality. And worse off, its bringing a bad name for the sport, and the rest of us real Base jumpers. Now Im sure by now that there are some of you "skydivers with Base jumps" that are reading this and getting mad, and you rightfully should be. You should be getting mad at yourselves for participating incorrectly in the sport of Base. And if your getting mad right now, its a good chance your exactly the one's Im talking about. But like I said above, its possible that your current mentality does not allow you the capability to even see it.
But on the flip side to all of this, its not too late guys, you can change your attitudes and mentalities. You really can. Im living, jumping proof of it. 4 yrs. ago I had a very proper mentorship of 3 months long. I jumped with great people in a great crew. But I hadnt really realized the difference in the mentalities needed for Base from those needed for the other extreme sports that I had previously participated in, and I made a few stupid choices real early on that Almost got me hurt, and could have potentionally burned a few objects. Luckly I had the right people who yelled, talked, and taught me the right way, the Base Way. So you can still change your ways. You can change your thoughts, actions, and mentality. And its never too late, not until your dead at least. No matter how many jumps you have, 5 or 500, its time for you to change. And perferably you need to change NOW, because your pissing us all off.

O.K. Im done. Thanks for your time, and you may all Rip it apart like you all love to do. And yeah, I know my spelling sucks.

I believe you made many valid points and would like to add one:

as a willing participant, behave like one! take responsibility. you CHOOSE to do this, so NEVER act like a victim. you will only be a victim of your lack of knowledge, poor planning, laziness, sloppiness, etc.

Well said.

With other threads alive here at the moment, I have to say its pretty much insane. People not being able to pack, assemble their gear etc? To me this is not only a lazy skydiver mentality that shows little respect for BASE, it’s a fucking selfish attitude in where personal responsibility no longer exists and the reliance on others to ensure ones safety does. That is not BASE jumping. Putting the onus on others for your wellbeing is fucking selfish and not being able to take full responsibility for your own is not a BASE jumper, is a wannabe skydiver doing it for the cool…….. well dying in your chase to look cool, that’s plain retarded, and having someone else responsible in trying to ensure that does not happen with your lack of knowledge about gear, that’s retarded and selfish…

Not trying to flame you at all dude. Similar thoughts have crossed my mind in the time I've been a jumper as well, and I admittedly haven't always practiced what I preach for sure...but I was getting a bit agitated over what you were saying and so I'll add my piece...

I should start out to say that I have a few BASE jumps, and a few more skydives. When I'm at the dz I consider myself a "skydiver who BASE jumps," and when I'm elsewhere I consider myself "a BASE jumper who skydives." That being said, I'm also a "photographer that BASE jumps," a rock climber that takes pictures," etc. My point is that what you're talking about is totally relative to the individual and stems from one [potentially] wrong "cornerstone" assumption: That the way you feel about this subject is the CORRECT way. It might be for you, but absolutely won't be for others.

I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with you, but BASE is different things for different people, and they do it for different reasons. So with that in mind, tell me what makes one a BASE jumper? is it anyone who jumps off a fixed object with a parachute? How many times do they have to do it before they qualify for the "title" of BASE jumper? Do they have to have received a BASE number? Are unpacked jumps actually BASE jumps? Is someone who goes to BD or TF and makes a few jumps one day in their life a BASE jumper? What about Mike Pelkey and Brian Schubert? Before they made their second jumps 40 years after their first, would you have considered them BASE jumpers? The answer to me is simple and seemingly unchangeable: TO EACH THEIR OWN. At BD 2005, Mike Pelkey got up in front of the entire room full of BASE jumpers and said something to the effect of "I have officially been a "BASE jumper" longer than anyone else." And while some may argue that point, in my personal opinion, he absolutely, unequivocally had been!

Personally, I've mostly thought about the terms "BASE jumping," "BASE jumper," etc as simply easier ways of describing what I was doing last night rather than as a title. To me, the baseline of BASE jumping has always been the embodiment of the free spirit, operating outside of the norms, challenging myself, overcoming fears, and to a point, making my own rules while still being respectful of others. It's about being resourceful. It's about meeting phenomenal people in phenomenal places under phenomenal circumstances, and making instant friends with them for life. It's about having FUN. And that can mean a lot of different things to different BASE jumpers, skydivers, climbers, chess players, and lawn bowlers alike.

You are wrong IMHO, to categorically suggest that people who don't adhere to your ideals of BASE jumping need to change [whether you're right or not] It's no more your sport than it is "theirs." No one wants to see people go in and/or get hurt. So maybe you're right, that my current mentality won't allow me to see your point, but I believe we're talking more about human nature than BASE jumping, and I feel more than qualified to add my $0.02 on that. As for your last sentence, I'll just say that I'm sorry if the way I'm jumping pisses you off, but I'm not jumping for you.

So I guess, my long windedness can be summed up by saying "Says who?"

cheers!
pope

Edit to emphasize that this post isn't made as an attack on ChrisHall per se, but is meant to be open ended question for any of us to jump in on if we like (yeah, like we won't! )

Selfish?? of course it selfish, BASE has always been a selfish activity and will always be, there are long time ago i give up defending my "sport" or what the hell this activity is called.
I stop counting all the times i have been burned by "ordinary" people who have called me a selfish idiot or worse because of this activity i have been practice this years.. In Kjerag, you can rent a BASErig...you don`t even need to know how to pack...they do it for you for 40-50$ and they claimed to be a NON_PROFIT club...so why can`t i make the same money as they do?
Maybe we need to start with this so called first jump courses....

We, all of us, should be careful with that "way of life" thing when it comes to BASE. It's an old saw now that lots of like-minded groups use. Fishing is a way of life, hunting is a way of life, golf is a way of life, and I swear, just recently, I was in a bar and heard a player say billiards is a way of life . . .

As for BASE being selfish, well, in the sense that doing anything for personal joy can be considered selfish, fine, but overall I find most BASE jumpers to be a generous lot. I can’t count how many couches I've crashed on, meals I've been offered, and other kindnesses I've received over the years. And even though I try I'll never be able to pay all that back. And I know for sure it’s true what many have said in the past; the real nature of BASE jumping just doesn't come through on these boards.

However, as BASE becomes more popular it is going to change. Look at bikers from as late as the 1970s. The ones I rode with were true outlaws, who'd steal you blind if you weren't a brother, but give you the shirts off their backs if you were. Nowadays that guy you see on a Fatbob at the gas station, even though he's dressed like an outlaw is as likely to be an accountant or lawyer who wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire because he doesn't have any brothers, or even knows what that really means. I'd hate to see BASE go that way.

Yet in total, and in my heart, I know BASE jumping isn’t golf or fishing. And the thing itself is bigger than anyone of us who are doing it. And it's the jumpers who don't see that which I consider selfish. I think when the final chapter on human history is written we'll get a small paragraph. And it'll be for being the first human beings, in all of history, not afraid to truly fly . . .

NickD
BASE 194

As said one very experienced base jumper after traveling to France some young people there look at the base jumping just as another option in mountain activity. As an mixt climbing or paraplan flying. They just jump without any being...
Is it wright or wrong?

I personally found this line entertaining. You speak of precision in everything you do, yet you are too lazy to spell correctly, or click on the "check spelling" button right next to "post reply". You fucking spelled jumping wrong for christs sake...

Want to judge people how they are with a rig on their back...go for it. Want to judge people how they are with the rig in the closet...GFY.

Pope, whats up Brother!

I see your point on "What makes a Base Jumper". Thanks for the idea of looking at it from a different angle.
But thats not what I was really getting at. It doesnt matter what title one gives him or herself in the sport, but more or less their attitudes, actions, or way of thinking within the sport. I use the terms Base jumper and Skydiver lightly, and in my original post, I use them to strictly clairify the difference in the two. I love skydiving, and skydivers. I mean no attack on them, but use their over all attitude and mentality as a mere example to best show what Im thinking. For me sometimes, it's hard to perfectly put my thoughts and feelings into appropriate words. Im just an extreme athlete, not poet or writer.

 
Good points, well worth mentioning. Rather than using 'skydiver' or 'base jumper' stereotypical and exclusional terms, I consider myself a parachutist, or parachute enthusiast/connoisseur. As such I think it's in everyone's best long term interest to always protect sites, each other, and interact with the public as a good ambassador of parachuting to hopefully bring some dignity and respect to our great sport.
But that's just my view, I guess most everybody else would rather say F*&$ the public and other jumpers, let us aspire to be magot.

O.K. dude, Whatever, are you just arguing for the sake of arguing. Everyone should know what I mean. Misspelling words on this forum will not kill me, mis-routing my bridle cause I dont know how to pack could.


No mate, their is no difference. Do you think the general public thinks any different of the two. For instance, and correct me if Im wrong Nick, but Im under the impression that NickDG does not jump much anymore. Which would mean his rigs are in the closet. As to where Im the opposite, I do jump a lot, almost weekly. The general public has not, and can not see a difference in the two of us. We are both Base jumpers to them. So if Nick goes out and says or does something stupid, his actions will fall upon the entire community. So there really is no difference in the two. Do you understand what I mean? So dont tell me to GFY.

Maybe I misread your post...maybe your prose/composition is poor.

When you start telling people to have precision in everything they do, and telling people how to act when their rig is in the closet...I take that as you telling people how to live their lives outside of the BASE environment...which neither you nor I nor anyone else have any right to do.

As for the "general public" bit. The general public does not know I BASE jump...unless they browse these forums and extrapolate who I am from them.

If the "general public" knows you BASE jump...that is generally your fault and yours alone.

And as for Nick not jumping much anymore...who gives a fuck? On one warm summer night, Nick strolled around a street with me pointing out this and that, showing me where to look for turbulence etc etc. Then his cigarette smoking, sore legged ass climbed a chain link fence and proceeded to drag himself up 26 flights of stairs. He sat there while I nearly shit myself watching buses drive through my only alternate LZ and worrying about the fact that I had to clear power lines and trees and subway entrances to avoid having to land in front of those buses. And after I landed from my first B, he was there having a beer with me and slapping me five and laughing at what a nervous wreck I had been at that moment. So maybe he doesn't flik much any more, but he is very active in BASE still and gives back to newer jumpers in a very unselfish way. He's still every bit a BASE jumper in my book, regardless of what all the fucking haters type on mysBASE or dorkzone...

i just love it when people tell me how to behave to be a proper "whatever".
i really do.
precision in every action...oh my god...
guess i'll never be a base jumper.
you shattered all my hopes and dreams.
now i'll just go to the closet where my rig sits and cry a little bit.

oh, and no tracy i'm also not getting a stupid base number

so no, no base jumper here.

I'm glad you are an "extreme athlete".

In high school, I was a high school athlete who played water polo on Junior Olympic teams, state championship qualifying teams and such.

In college, I was a collegiate athlete who played water polo on county and state championship qualifying teams and such.

In BASE, I'm just some guy out to have a good time in a fucked up way and trying to the best of my abilities not to die in the process.

To each their own I guess.

So... i have read all the posts in this thread, paying specific attention to both the Chris's posts.

and i must say, I have no idea what this thread is about.

is this just a small variation of the thread 'what makes a BASE jumper?'

actually, I'm Lost. and i kinda like it that way.

carry on. . .

in a post that has been removed, you wrote:


well said.

a poor exchange between the two Nicks has been removed. it was hostile and intimidating. it's the sort of exchange that intimidates some from posting.

to ALL:
if you can't disagree with out becoming defensive, hostile, aggressive, etc. please refrain from posting. we need CONTRIBUTIONS, not ego contests.

I'd be careful in making statements such as "all of us" and "us real BASE jumpers", cause quite frankly, this forum board, as well as the other more "BASE specific" forum boards, is far from being the voice of the BASE majority. And if anyone feels otherwise, they are sadly mistaken.

I'm not sure what kind of response you were looking for from BASE jumpers, or skydivers, or what ever the minority, myself included, on this forum board calls us, but you do raise some good points. I just think there is some room, still today in 2007, for some leniency in respect for those who want to be BASE jumpers, or who want to jump off of fixed objects. So what, the dude lost his PC because of a rigging error. Yea, if he would have been on top of the game like probably you and I, he would have known how to attach the PC before he even showed up for BD. But guess what, there is nothing that no one can ever do about those things. Why? Because anyone with a credit card and a telephone has access to BASE gear, complete with all the tye dye options, it's the American way. And there will always be the 50 jump wonder there to help him rig it up in between loads at the DZ.

All we can do is try to educate those around us who want to jump from fixed objects. I'd be willing to bet that since that thread about the mis-routed PC at BD surfaced, that it answered at least that question for a lot of newbie want to be BASE jumpers, on how to correctly attach the PC to the bridal. Unfortunately, someone almost, could of, went in for that mistake. But he didn't. Take that video recently posted on this site of the jumpers back in '85 jumping from the tower. Look how far BASE jumping as evolved since then, thank God!! F&*k, if someone showed up on my tower today with those OP shorts and mullet hair cut, and all that "totally to the max, man" bullshit, bragging about how this video is gonna be on MTV, guess what?? But we had to go through that to get to where we are today. I think.

I just think that sometimes we so called "real BASE jumpers" and I use that phrase loosely, are our own worst enemies. Protect your sites, look after your friends, and be willing to help those who want to learn. Not everyone has access to the BASE God mentor, who ever they are, or the funds to attend the FJC of their choice.

If all else fails, move to a state where the towers are plenty. Just not Texas please. I'm back in the game.

K, I made my yearly one post. I'll crawl back in my hole now and lurk.

Oh yea, skydiving is fun too.

Don't die.

Rod

please post more!

I thought NickDG was the oldest BASE jumper in this Forum?

for God's sake, good vibes to all, and a good night.

base, schmase...

Come on - what's with the censorship?

I don’t know what's more sickening, NickNutso, or this board . . .

NickD
BASE 194

just unrelentlessy trying to bring a laugh to the serious base boards.

What was with that phone #?? When I called it, I got some place called "The Spearmint Rhino".

 
Returning to the subject of the original post. Have you read much about Bushido?

Lee

Great idea. If you burn a site, you should take your own life to make up for your shame.

Hahahaha, that could have been my reply.. You are not a real base jumper until you have your number, even so you jumped all objects. That means I have to go to the closet and cry.

Your're from Germany: please PM me.

or how about "Ubunto?"


or


NickDG speaks of receiving meals, lodging, and local guides when travelling. he has also attempted to return the hospitality.

he is not the only one. I've read general invites on this site. I've received lodging at least 3 times from strangers.

I've also seen people helping out those they do not know. it happens all the time at BD, packing in the lobby, offering advice at an alternative site, or carrying out an injured jumper.

I think part of being a BASE jumper is practicing "Ubuntu." most may never have heard the word, but the community HAS demonstrated it's meaning.

Good Morning All,

Weekends I am w/o internet so I am always
a little interested to see what you crazy kids
have been up to

The public at large is clueless about the not
subtle differences between jumping from a
plane or an object. In fact I have had many
tell me, "I would never jump out of a plane
but I'd jump off a bridge or cliff." I ask why
to which they reply, "Cause it is lower".


RE: Bushido

Great reference, after 10 years of studying
and practicing Martial Arts I have read many
things on this topic but until this moment I
never realized how lines from "The Way of
The Samurai" apply to jumping. (paraphrase)

1. When the warrior is at zazen (peace/one)
he should imagine being cut with swords so
that he will not fear death.

2. The warrior's mind & will should be so
strong and clear that if his head were to
be severed, his body would execute one
last action.


RE: Ubunto

In the most idealistic light, people are all
part of "One Human Family" as the group
in Key West proclaims. While that is nice,
I feel it much more with jumpers.

My wife & I have put up dozens of them
in our house and I have received the same
all over, including beer, safety meetings,
jumps, rides in foreign countries, etc.

This is one of the things I tell potential new
jumpers, it is an amazing fraternity of about
50,000 unique people worldwide. Of course
with BASE it is a little more special since a
lot of what we do involves committing some
pseudo-crimes


RE: How 2 Live

I am very anal-retentive, the clothes in my closet
are in order by color, my sock drawer is organized,
and kitchen cabinets look like a shelf in a grocery
store. I take this same approach to my gear, so
when I see people being messy & monkey-fucking
things it bother me, but that is their right.


Lastly, re: Chris Hall, who started this thread...
Chris was the first BASE jumper I ever met in person,
he took me out to crowd crew but we got winded out,
so instead we got drunk and I over-slept missing the
wake up call for an antenna jump (sorry Brandy).
Chris was also there when I first saw someone go in.
He might not be the best writer (he's in college to
improve that) but he is a good guy.

From the sound of your post, Chris Hall is bad luck and to be avoided.

Hahaha...just kidding Chris. I know Tom "Green" is the bad luck charm.

WE NEED TO RELAX!
BASEJUMPING IS A TINY THING IN THE BIG PICTURE.WE SHOULD JUST FOCUS ON BEING.
THE CHOICES WE MAKE WILL ALWAYS EFFECT PEOPLE,BUT ULTIMATELY WE SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCE OF OUR CHOICES SOMETIMES WITH PAIN AND SOMETIMES WITH OUR LIFE.
WE CAN SHARE OUR WISDOM WITH OTHERS,BUT MOST OF THE TIME WISDOM COMES FROM LIFE EXP.,SO WE HAVE TO TAKE OUR OWN STEPS FORWARD.IT WOULD BE AN EASY WORLD IF WE LEARNED FROM OTHER MISTAKES,BUT OUR LITTLE EGOS CAN NOT COMPREHEND ITS OWN DEMISE.
WE ARE VERY LUCKY TO HAVE A PASSION,BUT LETS NEVER LOSE REALITY OF WHAT LIFE IS.DO NOT TAKE YOURSELF SO SERIOUS,YOU ARE NOT PERMANENT. SHARE YOUR WISDOM,SOME WILL USE IT AND OTHER WILL SAY FUCK IT.
lETS TRY NOT COMPARE OURSELVES WITH WARRIORS,WE ARE JUST JUMPING FROM FUCKING THINGS,MAYBE ACTIVE MEDITATION IS A BETTER REFERENCE
WHO EVER HAS THE MOST FUN AND LIVES WITH NO REGRET,IN THE END WINS.
GARY BEGLEY

spot on

Ohhhhhh The "BASE" way. Let us all redefine who we are and adjust our attitudes accordingly so in the eyes of Chris we can all be the idealized BASE being whether we are jumping or not. Forget it... You have no control over other people. BASE jumping is already being desecrated just like skateboarding or any other 'outlaw' sport. Yeah it sucks that it's become a fashion for some people but as long as it remains sacred to you then what does it matter how other people approach the 'sport'? Just avoid them and focus on having fun yourself. I wouldn't worry about it. It's unnecessary stress.

Also do you really define yourself solely by the fact that you jump off of things from time to time? Are you not a living being? Do you not change from second to second and learn from the experiences you encounter? Why would you even attempt to define such a complex and dynamic being such as yourself with a dead and inert term. Or have you really stopped growing? I would think that is exactly what you are preaching against... Seems to me like the people that seek BASE for the image and bragging rights are the only ones shallow enough to call themselves BASE jumpers. I would think that the people who approach BASE with respect and awe would also approach themselves the same way and realize there is a lot more to yourself and life than leaping off of shit... Even though it probably is the coolest thing out there! My advice: relax. let the ebb and flow of the universe wash over you. forget about the politics.

chris. you are the man, and thanks for the piggyback ride out of the canyon, when i broke my foot back in may. fuck the haters. live pure.

cya -b

I thought NickDG was the oldest BASE jumper in this Forum?

he is fucker.. I'm only 41.

Nah...He's a kid compared to me, but Moe Viletto and the Harrison boys have me by a couple of years.

Come to think of it, there were some really old bastards at RG this year.

BASE359