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Hi All, I own a hot air balloon company in Nor-Cal and go out to a couple of the different drop zones to push people out once in a while. Last weekend I met up with a fellow that thought the turnout for a balloon BASE jump would be huge.

As I am sure you are all aware BASE from a Hot air balloon is not legal and exposes the pilot to huge problems in the event of someone having a bad day.

I have overcome this problem. So I am doing a little market research before spending a lot of money to set it up.

So if you all do not mind I would like to ask some questions.

1. How much would you spend for a legal jump?
2. Would you do more than one in a day?
3. How far would you drive to do a legal jump?
4. Are there any numbers as to how many BASE folks there are in different areas, cities and states?

The costs involved are substantial in doing this legally but, I could operate a mobile jump center if the demand is there. Unlike normal balloon jumps the winds are much less of a factor and I could turn over ten jumps an hour to 500ft. all day long.

The thought is to go to different areas and provide a full day (or weekend) at each stop.

1. How much would you spend for a legal jump?
Better to ask if a certain price is acceptable...

2. Would you do more than one in a day?
Yes

3. How far would you drive to do a legal jump?
Not super far

4. Are there any numbers as to how many BASE folks there are in different areas, cities and states?
The West has more legal places to jump, so there are probably more jumpers there...

But conversly there are less legal places to jump in the East, so some many might drive further...


Be aware that there are legal ways to do a quasi-BASE jump out of a balloon (or plane)... There are also legal base rigs... Check Bridge Day this year...

B is for Balloon???

Hi Leroy, According to the FAR's jumping from any aircraft is only legal if the jumpers has a reserve chute packed by an FAA certified rigger. From what I understand BASE rigs do not come with reserves. I have discussed this exact topic with and FAA attorney as well.

I can and have dropped lots of skydivers from 4000agl legally. What I am going to do involves an unmanned balloon.

I am thinking $40.00 a jump.

A tethered balloon may not be an aircraft under FAA regulations. On at least one occasion an FAA official has "allowed" (meaning not stopped) jumps made from a tethered balloon with a BASE rig.

The new Baser rig is using the Jumpshack (Racer) TSO to get around this problem, by attaching a (TSO'd) belly mount reserve to the (TSO'd) harness and container system. Using this system, jumping from any type of aircraft (balloon, airplane, etc) ought to be perfectly legal. Unfortunately, you pay through the nose for the legality (this brand new market entry is $1100--or approximately 30% more than any other system currently for sale in the USA).

1. How much would you spend for a legal jump?
Depends...altitude, LZ, etc. However I am in the
process doing this myself and was hoping to get
about $10 a jump based on what people pay for
hop & pops and what people pay for the boat ride
in Twin Falls, Idaho.

2. Would you do more than one in a day?
Oh hell yes!!

3. How far would you drive to do a legal jump?
Probably 3 hours max.

4. How many BASE folks there...
Estimates vary, I'd guess 5,000+ worldwide.

i think you have a neat idea, and there will probably be many people who will buy in. however, a balloon and 500ft is something not even remotely interesting to me. if i'm going to pay to ride in an "aircraft" then i'm definitely going to be riding my slider from terminal. (as there are a few other ways to legally jump normal BASE rigs from aircraft)

of course, this is just my $.00002. so in any case, good luck with your venture!

I am still trying to work out some details myself. Helium is very expensive right now and the cost to fill a balloon are about $2,000 per day! Not to mention 20,000 for the balloon.

I looked into this in some detail and I found that the FAA deems a vessel an aircraft as soon as it contains a human passenger. I was also told that since it was considered an aircraft, even while tethered, it would require a licensed pilot and be subject to FAA regulations.

With this in mind, I still think it's a great idea, especially for training. I also no of way more than a few people who have jumped from a balloon from altitudes below 2000 feet and many who have done so with a BASE rig, including myself...

I probably wouldn't drive to NorCal to do such a jump, but I'd be interested in talking offline about possibilities.

Tony

Hi Tony, I have been talking to FAA as well as one of the founders of modern ballooning. Both feel that a tethered helium balloon would be legal. This is due to a lack of a on board altitude control system. In fact the lack of any controls makes it operate outside of any FAR's.

A good example of this can be found here
http://www.balloonland.at/maxl/jumping.htm

The difference as it was explained to me is if the tether was to break or come loose. Now, without the proper pilot training (even with it for that matter), the passenger is at risk. The bouncing balloon is just producing enough lift to allow you to jump higher than normal. An unmanned, tethered balloon can be virtually ignored if the tether was to break.

A good argument might be that the passengers of the balloon are trained skydiver/BASE jumpers and are equipped with the necessary emergency gear to abandon the craft in the event of an emergency. This might allow you to get a waiver which would override the other FAA requirements. But then you still have the single harness, dual parachute, FAA certified rigger packed reserve in the last 120 days issue. There again a pilot emergency rig is not a dual parachute system. but it still needs to be packed under supervision of a certified rigger. Again there's another loophole. If you had a certified rigger on-site supervising the packing of a BASE rig to be used as an emergency rig it might fly.

If you would like we can talk about these things offline. I hope you can make it work. It will more than likely be a regional acceptance that takes into account current/expected air traffic etc., but it's a good idea.

Hey Tony,

Here is some input from another
thread regarding this same subject
which matches up with what I found:


The relevant FAA material is in FAR Part 101.

http://www.access.gpo.gov/..._14/14cfr101_00.html

It talks about Moored Balloons. As far as all my research shows, the FAA does not consider them an aircraft. If they take passengers, then they are governed by individual state amusement ride laws.


Hey Skydrifter,

Check out these links when you get a second.
Those cool Belgians have done this before:


http://www.aerophile.com

http://aerophile.com/...le_video_jumpers.php

http://www.aerophile.com/pages_us/aerophile_groupe.php

Also check out this thread for some
discussion of the helium vs. hot air choice.
I personally would love to use helium but
without a trust fund I'll have to settle for
hot air --- like what all of us here type


http://www.basejumper.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2874240;page=unread#unread

I haven't really looked into using a hot air balloon, but that might be another possible loophole. If I were to design a device to monitor altitude and rate of change, limits could be put in to control the movement of the balloon and the balloon could somewhat fly itself back to the ground in the event of an emergency. Not knowing much about FAA balloon piloting requirements, other than the similarities to what's required for an airplane pilot, is there some low level training that would enable a person, per the FAA, to work a burner on a hot air balloon legally. Especially if the balloon was tethered and therefore didn't really need to be piloted? I know I can get a plane off the ground, however I have never tried to land one. So likewise, with minimal training, I could get a hot air balloon moving upwards jump out and not worry about bringing it back down...

ya know... what if i took a T-10 harness without the t-10 and add the reserve parachute...

wore that under my base rig...

the t-20 harness is TSO, and you have a reserve... and you haev 2 parachutes since you have one on yoru base rig.


Maybe you can word it such that since the rules Dont specifically state that the dual parachute system has to be joined... ....hum... what is joined? what is connected..

plenty of word play can be of benifit

 Or go abroad.......
check out our Haloween video ........ jumpin a pumpkin at:

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=guestpass&id=5yu15


Hee.heee.heee

Hey Tom,

I had hoped that you would of come over to check out the new features of my rig and to let me know what you think. I'm sure you would be impressed. Part of why I even came out with the BASER is so people could learn safer by jumping from planes with their actual BASE system and not just the canopy. Because my system is TSO'd and can accept a chest reserve it has to have extra rings (4 total) which costs extra compared to the others that don't. It also has magnetic riser covers that are also expensive. With the BASER you can jump ALL year and not just at base sites once or twice a year for most. I was also doing a Bridge Day Special which was taking off $100 and I am doing that until the end of the year. This only makes it 20% more that most. But "Paying through the nose" you call $200-$300 more "Paying through the nose"
Maybe your not charging enough for your BASE courses. I mean you charge $400 for gear rental for your BASE course. Talk about paying through the nose. That is 50% of what a traditional rig cost! That's more like paying through the you know what, if you ask me. But who the hell am i right? So when you start your comments, please remember what you say and how it might affect someone.

Hi Sonic,

I was not trying to disparage your gear. I'm sure it's great, and I look forward to having a chance to check it out, hopefully soon.


I wish I'd had a chance. I was pretty slammed with teaching duties virtually the whole time, unfortunately. Hopefully I'll get a chance to look it over soon .



It is 30% more than any other rig in the US market. That's a pretty steep premium to pay. The point I was trying to make was that if you wanted to follow the FAA rules, you'd end up paying for it since TSO's are so expensive to get.




Yes, I do. $400 includes shipping the rig anywhere in the world a month in advance of the course, for packing practice and to skydive the canopy. Further, I credit the rental fee toward the purchase of any system for students who want to buy gear (which is most of them) through me (I'm a dealer for Apex, Asylum, Consolidated Rigging and Morpheus). Basically, that means that I end up paying the shipping, and never recovering it, if they buy gear. It also means that I actually lose money, overall, on my gear rentals. The $400 is more of a security deposit (since they get it back if/when they buy gear), since I'm sending out a fairly valuable piece of equipment.




Remember that we're talking about complete systems (canopy and container) here. Typical cost of a complete BASE rig (with canopy) is close to $3000 (and in many cases over). That makes the rental fee ($400, which is fully credited toward gear purchase) actually more like 15% of the cost of a rig.



I will. I apologize if I offended you. That was not my intention. In fact, I'd bet that this discussion will only serve to publicize your gear.

some people are willing to pay a premium for light weight...
some people are willing to pay a premium for an aerodynamic rig...
some people are willing to pay a premium for a TSO'd rig...

let the marketplace decide.

heck, experienced jumpers formerly tried to steer newbies toward velcro rigs and away from pin rigs! they may be slow to recommend your option, but newbies may warm to it. time will tell.

my questions revolve around regularly jumping a belly mounted reserve. it certainly will disrupt the airflow on a wingsuit jump. will people try to freefly it? what lessons regarding belly mounts will we need to re-learn?

but this discussion probably deserves it's own thread. let's get back on topic!

Actually they dont look at all vessels that way. We had a tethered ride balloon here that would carry 50 passengers to 500 feet. They waved off on it and said its not a balloon we wont be the governing body responsible.

A friend of mine seem to feel that its obvious that you "should sell [your] idea to a festival/event organizer and let the spectators pay for the balloon. The base jumpers should be the entertainment.

BD brings in 200,00 plus and they all ain't there for the leaves."

Why that is a darn fine idea! I imagine it could be a big draw at any one of a number of balloon festivals. Not to mention a few other venues.

At balloon festivals the monkeys in the circus (balloonists) often get free hotels, propane and assorted swag. There is no reason the same thing should not be available to jumpers.

Free beer in your buddies future!

>>I mean you charge $400 for gear rental for your BASE course. Talk about paying through the nose. <<

Hey Kamuran Bayrasli,

Can I get a BASER with red thread eveywhere and embroidered love notes from my girlfriend?"

NickD
BASE 194

 
I think your idea is awesome. I've had the idea of a tethered helium balloon in the back of my mind for a long time. I've watched people try to tether hot air balloons several times and it's just too scary. I've been told there are ways to base jump from a tethered hot air balloon legally. As I recall it involved decertifying it. The FAA then allowed them to use it as a nonaircraft tethered balloon. I think you'll find that a lot of that will depend on the local FSDO and who you talk to. You're likely to get a different answer from any one you ask. Some people are just much more willing to play ball.

Lee

I really don't understand the title of the Thread.
It should be called, "How much would you pay to 'Skydive' from a balloon, While wearing a BASE Rig ?" Jumping out of a balloon is not a BASE jump even though you might be wearing a BASE container. I know that in the past BR used to use a balloon for training BASE jumps. But now days I think we got Twin Falls to Pussify training and The Only Real benefit I can see from a Balloon jumps is in WS BASE training.
Personally I would not pay a Dime for skydiving out of a balloon with a BASE rig on. I would pay (Again) to skydive BASE gear and a WS out of one.That was most satisfying to me even though it was not a BASE jump.
.

Anyone here aware that the US Congress only gave the FAA authority over the NAS above 700 feet AGL?

If you're operating a tethered balloon below 700 feet AGL, that is not interfering with aviation traffic, or posing any other hazard, the FAA has no authority over it's operation. (Regardless of what they say!)

BASE359

where can "we" find that refference

Do you have anything to the contrary, in writing, which is legal?

BASE359

you made a claim. leroydb did not challenge it, but desired to confirm it. so, can you cite any documentation to support your claim? if yes, please cite it. teach us.

Ray, I could care less what you call it!!!!

My goal is to jump when I want and not have to pay.
If I had a friend who was rich and loved to fly then
I'd be skydiving right now and NOT writing this...

If I lived in Twin Falls or Brento or Norway I'd be
less interested... However, the least expensive
way to gain altitude where I live is a balloon,
hence I am pursuing this.

As for classifying the jump, I'll quote Mr. Badenhop
from the thread "Blimp on a String"

Hello,
A 'tethered balloon' is by definition a 'fixed object',
thus qualifies as a BASE jump, logged as 'other'.
Avery

In my researching of this topic I had
also come across the distinctions for air
space based on altitude and proximity
to an airport.

Example: 699 feet AGL over the middle
of nowhere is not controlled while 12 feet
AGL above LAX or ATL definitely is!

See attached pics and the link below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airspace_class#United_States

It's WAAAAY too fuckin' early for a grumpy old bastard prone to wake 'n bake to make much sense, but here ya go...

From the Airman's Information Manual (AIM)

http://www.faa.gov/...M/Chap3/aim0302.html

Here the relevant portions of the AIM page are highlighted in bold...

3-2-6. Class E Airspace
a. Definition. Generally, if the airspace is not Class A, Class B, Class C, or Class D, and it is controlled airspace, it is Class E airspace.

b. Operating Rules and Pilot/Equipment Requirements:

1. Pilot Certification. No specific certification required.

2. Equipment. No specific equipment required by the airspace.

3. Arrival or Through Flight Entry Requirements. No specific requirements.

c. Charts. Class E airspace below 14,500 feet MSL is charted on Sectional, Terminal, and IFR Enroute Low Altitude charts.

d. Vertical limits. Except for 18,000 feet MSL, Class E airspace has no defined vertical limit but rather it extends upward from either the surface or a designated altitude to the overlying or adjacent controlled airspace.

e. Types of Class E Airspace:

1. Surface area designated for an airport. When designated as a surface area for an airport, the airspace will be configured to contain all instrument procedures.

2. Extension to a surface area. There are Class E airspace areas that serve as extensions to Class B, Class C, and Class D surface areas designated for an airport. Such airspace provides controlled airspace to contain standard instrument approach procedures without imposing a communications requirement on pilots operating under VFR.

3. Airspace used for transition. There are Class E airspace areas beginning at either 700 or 1,200 feet AGL used to transition to/from the terminal or en route environment.

4. En Route Domestic Areas. There are Class E airspace areas that extend upward from a specified altitude and are en route domestic airspace areas that provide controlled airspace in those areas where there is a requirement to provide IFR en route ATC services but the Federal airway system is inadequate.

5. Federal Airways. The Federal airways are Class E airspace areas and, unless otherwise specified, extend upward from 1,200 feet to, but not including, 18,000 feet MSL. The colored airways are green, red, amber, and blue. The VOR airways are classified as Domestic, Alaskan, and Hawaiian.

6. Offshore Airspace Areas. There are Class E airspace areas that extend upward from a specified altitude to, but not including, 18,000 feet MSL and are designated as offshore airspace areas. These areas provide controlled airspace beyond 12 miles from the coast of the U.S. in those areas where there is a requirement to provide IFR en route ATC services and within which the U.S. is applying domestic procedures.

7. Unless designated at a lower altitude, Class E airspace begins at 14,500 feet MSL to, but not including, 18,000 feet MSL overlying: the 48 contiguous States including the waters within 12 miles from the coast of the 48 contiguous States; the District of Columbia; Alaska, including the waters within 12 miles from the coast of Alaska, and that airspace above FL 600; excluding the Alaska peninsula west of long. 160°00'00''W, and the airspace below 1,500 feet above the surface of the earth unless specifically so designated.

f. Separation for VFR Aircraft. No separation services are provided to VFR aircraft.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


If you have any problems with the wording, FAA jargon and phraseology, don't ask me to clarify it for you further, but e3 is your biggest clue. If you want a reference that says..."X is uncontrolled airspace", you won't find it written that way...because the FAA doesn't write that way.
If you want to take it to the next step, PM me and I'll refer you to a well respected aviation attorney in San Diego who will be glad to explain it to you in plain language. (For a fee, I'm sure)

BASE359

Hey Tony,

To get a license to legally fly paying passengers
in a balloon, well that is a different story...

To legally fly a light-weight balloon under the
ultra-light provisions just requires complying
with the regs. Like it must weigh less than
254 pounds, not flown near people, etc.

To reduce weight and avoid any chance of
being classified as an aircraft I am considering
leaving the propane and burner on the ground.

This is very similiar to the old smoke balloon
stunts done at air shows back in the 40's & 50's.
The envelope is anchored, heated, and then
cut-loose, rising, and then retrieved via the
tether.

sorry to start your day off rough.
thanks for the reply.

p.s.
the passage you mentioned regards controlled airspace. Class G is uncontrolled, but still regulated (IMHO). heck, if it is unregulated, why not take a BASE rig out of an airplane at 500 ft? (still, an aviation lawyer should know more about it than I...)

How about just send the balloon up once a day, unmanned, to 700' AGL, with a snatch block attached to the bottom of it? (Or send it up for weeks at a time?)
Then use a vehicle or winch to raise a platform with jumpers up to launch height. There are certain safetly issues to consider when using this approach, but it takes a piloted aircraft out of the mix, and keeps you away from FAA control.
But, who would be the first dumbass to fly into the winch line?

BASE359

Yes, I referenced the limits of controlled airspace because the FAA doesn't choose to be overly clear on "uncontrolled" airspace.

The reason you can't legally take a BASE rig out of an aircraft at 500 feet, is the FAA's control over the aircraft and pilot's actions, not so much to do with the airspace.

BASE359

Hey Tom,

Thanks for clarifying things, I hope I didn't offend you either. What you offer is a good deal then. And what you do for the community is great.

You'll get a chance to see one soon.

As for everyone arguing about jumping out of a balloon, buy a BASER and discussion is over.

I have a question for evryone too;
What do you call jumping out of a plane with Legal BASE gear?

Is BASEdiving sound right? Maybe SkyBASE?

Maybe I should start a poll.

skydiving.

Damn, well I did not know that 'Avery' himself conjured-up legitimacy of a Balloon jump being a Real BASE jump. If He said it, Then it must be true. ...
OK now I will turn it around on you. Grn. Machine, I could care less what you call it!!!!
Jumping BASE gear out of a Balloon is Not a real BASE jump.
I did not Log my Balloon WS jumps as 'BASE' but if you feel it's cool and all to do so. Then that's all right with me if you want to Bastardize the traditional BASE objects.
Balloon skydiving with BASE gear sounds fun but this sounds like a lot of trouble and effort. Can you Not just go climb something and make a BASE jump once in a while where you are located ?
.

Hey Ray, is an unpacked jump a *real* BASE jump?
Wait, before you answer, let's use our favorite line:
I could care less what you call it!!!

Honestly, I quit logging in books after 1,000 skydives.
I tranposed the data from those 4 books into Excel and
now I keep a spreadsheet. This way is faster for me
and the information I keep more specific.

I record skydives, names of TM passengers, BASE jumps,
para-sailing, hot air balloon flights/jumps, and even any
sky-related training seminars I attend.

I really just want to perfect this balloon thing for the
challenge of making it work, to get in a few jumps,
and it'd be nice to prove so many nay sayers wrong.

As for me doing real BASE jumps...well after a long
vacation I did 1 last month and 2 this month, plus
1 of them involved climbing, so I am progressing,
just *real* slowly.

I am just going to start building a freestander out of scrap metal and wood. I will get to 500 feet eventually.

The question is whether the FAA considers BASE jumpers to be human... the NPS certainly doesn't!

IMHO, if you want to make a viable business out of your idea, you're going to give people enough altitude to do wingsuit jumps from.
pope

The FAA may not have control of airspace below 699ft but the DO have control over the operation of ANY certified aircraft.

The way to do this is simple, I have figured it out already. It does require some investment though. Primarily in a helium balloon ,winch and 5,600cf of helium.

I have been in contact with one of the founders of modern ballooning and the FAA. There is no doubt in my mind what I want to do is legal. I wish there was a way to do it cheaper
However, unless one has a static 500 foot tall structure or as pointed out by some of the folks here a belly mount reserve it is not.

Jumping a BASE rig from a balloon may not be the for the purest it is however a great way to get in a lot of jumps fast and possibly legally. Seems to me that the sensation of falling is what BASE is really all about. Then again the closest thing to that sensation I have ever felt was bungee jumping. Mark my words though, I will do at least one BASE jump from a very large bridge in my neck of the woods sometime in the next year.......................................................

I have the technology, I have the cash. So back to the question. If I took this kind of thing "on tour" with scheduled dates in different areas would people spend 40 or 50 dollars a pop? The part that makes it expensive is simply the cost of helium.

Don't forget to wear your rig while you're building that freestander, that way you will be legal per OSHA...

I believe people will pay $40 for 500ft from a balloon. How many and how many times is the real question. As you've read, some think it is a defamation of the sport of BASE jumping, so don't call it that. As for skydivers wanting to try a BASE jump, it might work if you devote enough time to the student. If you don't people will get injured. 500 feet requires BASE specific gear so either you will have to have rental gear available or the person will probably be or know a BASE jumper. This greatly reduces your client base.

If it's just an amusement park ride, I don't think it will work. Since, as you stated, you have not tried BASE jumping i can see why it might appear "the sensation of falling is what BASE is really about", but in reality for me and most of the people I know the falling isn't what it's about. There's much more to BASE than jumping!

 
As you make your travel plans may I remind you that there is a natural helium well here in TX.

Lee

$40 for 500ft? Why?

Jump tickets are already getting over the top at $25 some places.....

$40 for 500 feet? not with multiple cliffs of the same altitude in the backyard

We pay $50 a jump for 5k anytime the weather looks good.

Many people, myself included, have paid $80
for a jump from a balloon, but that was from
4,000 feet with my skydiving gear, which has
a reserve and a high performance canopy.

As Tony said, and as my 2 years of extensive
research has found, almost all skydivers think
exiting from below a 1,000 feet to be INSANE!

I agree, helium allows you to use a smaller
enveloipe, hence less problems with winds,
BUT the operation costs could never be
covered if you plan to do this as a long
term roving fun thing.

You set up shop somewhere on the east
coast where we don't have the potato
bridge then people like Morpheus could
use it for training and others for fun but
I really, really doubt most people would
pay $40 more than once when they can
go to 14,000 feet for $25.

Don't confuse "control" with jurisdiction... Control with regards to airspace refers to the permission required to fly in it, not the regulations that govern it. Anything that's not A,B,C,D or E airspace is G airspace, which goes all the way to the surface, and the FAA has jurisdiction over it. Over the entire US, the FAA has exclusive jurisdiction over the air from the surface up. (I'm embarrassed that I know airspace regs... it's just that I've been a pilot since I was 17, and have a powered paragliding school).

For tethered or "moored" balloons, check out FAR part 101. Seems like you need a waiver for anything over 500 feet... BUT, a waiver for "atmospheric research", which is what we are conducting on every jump, might be obtainable.

On the other hand, if you were somewhere where no one cared... then no one would care, and you could do whatever you want. I kinda like those places.

GB,

Let's not get get too hung upon phraseology in these forums, save that for Federal Court.

Yes, I've been, er, was an aviation professional for more than 20 years, with more than 30 years aviation experience, and have read my share of the FAR's as well,
I can say without any doubt whatsoever, that your above statement (in bold) is incorrect.
If you believe differently, it is because you read, interpret, and react to the FAR's exactly like the FAA wants you to.
Think about it, if your statement were true, you would need the FAA's permission to build a house.

BASE359

I am with you brother.

I plan to test my set-up in the

middle of nowhere!

" Hey Ray, is an unpacked jump a *real* BASE jump? "

-
Well that all depends on which one you are doing and Also as long as you are NOT doing it out of a Balloon. And every 'Real' BASE jumper knows the answer to that one. ...
Only one type of un-packed jump is a BASE jump. And that one is the 'Tard'. Where you hold your unpacked but orderly flaked Canopy with one hand and your line groups with the other. You exit freefall and are in control of your delay of open canopy by choosing the release of it then your line group after.

The Roll-Over is 'Not' a BASE jump. That is a Canopy Launch with no freefall and where canopy is lowered and poised at line-stretch in free air ready to fly as soon as it is loaded with body weight.
.

Hey, I jumped my wingsuit from one of your balloons at Skydance a few months ago from 3,900 feet AGL while wearing a skydiving rig. I had a great time, as did the other skydivers I talked to. I'm sure you'll find a lot more people willing to skydive from a normal balloon above 2,000 feet than people willing to exit from below 500 feet.

That said I would love to jump my BASE rig from any altitude above 300 feet or so, off of or out of just about anything, legal or not. I don't pay anything besides gas, bridge tolls, beer, and gear maintenance for most of my local BASE jumps, but I would pay around $50 for the novelty of a different type of jump or two.

I would drive or fly my plane a few hours to do a jump that seems like it would be fun. There isn't a public database of BASE jumpers sorted out by area, as most of us are habitual law breakers and therefore wish to remain somewhat low-profile.

I haven't had to deal with any legal issues yet, but that is something that comes with the territory. I'm currently paying for a broken leg, but my health insurance covers that. I've paid tons of money to travel to different places and do some legal BASE jumping.

I would hesitate from jumping a non-TSO'd BASE rig out of an aircraft illegally mostly because I know at least someone at the DZ would get upset and possibly "turn me in", and also I know of at least one person closely tied to the FAA that was also jumping from the balloons the morning I was there. I'm also a tandem instructor and airplane private pilot so I don't want to blatantly disregard the laws related to flying and skydiving, but I don't have a problem disregarding the laws I break to make a normal BASE jump.

The freefall feeling in BASE is great, as is skydiving and everything that goes into both sports. I don't know if you have any skydives already, but I'm sure if you want to jump the bridge the local BASE jumpers could help you out with that once you're ready. If you don't have any jumps yet, go try a tandem or go straight into AFF or static line.

I'd love to see your idea succeed, but I don't know if the demand is really there to make it profitable.

Thanks! I am really glad you guys had fun. As I mentioned earlier the excitement is infectious. I have a great time tell people to get out of my balloon. A few passengers have had me fantasizing about telling them to jump............... BTW the wingsuit jump and general atmosphere at Skydance has me thinking of getting my ticket. Did three AFF's back before zero-p canopies and got bored.........................

We will be back out at Skydance this weekend hoping for light winds. high pressure and no fog! Everything is setting up for a great couple of days

Last weekend we got blown out of there in total defiance of all forecasts.

Hi All,

Sorry to revive an older thread - I don't read here as often as I might like.

Just thought I would mention this again for those who might have questions or be interested. I am a base jumper who currently works for a company that manufactures tethered helium balloon rides (see the attached pics) I am currently located in the US operating one of our balloons on a regular basis (ie, doing over a hundred flights to 400 feet every week).

I can probably answer a lot of questions that you may have about technology involved, FAA regulations and legalities, operational considerations. Feel free to ask.

Just to add a few points to some things mentioned here:

In general the FAA does not consider a tethered balloon to be an aircraft, whether it takes passengers or not. (there may be some exceptions if an already registered free flying balloon is used for tethering) Our balloons typically operate under FAA waivers. There are many upsides to this, one of which is that parachuting from them is not regulated by the FAA at all and therefore jumping with base gear is fine. (other regulations may apply, ie municipal land restrictions) Also, it technically doesn't need a licensed pilot, and can even be operated from the ground.

As for helium vs hot air balloons for tethering, anyone who's ever tried to tether a hot air balloon knows that you need effectively zero wind. Any wind at all significantly impacts the operation of a tethered balloon. Winds may be good to jump, but not good enough to fly. Helium balloons operate with an enclosed envelope and can be pressurized to withstand wind much better, but would still stop operation in lighter wind than would still be good for jumping.

Helium costs are very prohibitive to operating systems like this, especially on a short term or travelling basis. Even more so considering there is a relative worldwide helium shortage at the moment. To give you an idea, the balloon we recently inflated here carries 30 passengers. The helium required to inflate cost approximately $30,000 for the gas, and an additional $45,000 in delivery charges. Yes, you read that right. So just ballpark that out, and you are looking at the helium costing on average $2500 per person that you want to be able to take on board. Not to say it's not possible, just very expensive.

I also have looked into helium recovery and storage systems so that if you did want to travel around with something like a 4 passenger system, you could reclaim and reuse the helium. Systems like this are also prohibitively expensive, to the point that calculations showed you would need to be inflating and deflating approximately 20 times per year to make helium recovery, storage and transportation cheaper than simply purchasing new helium each time.

Any other questions anyone may have, feel free to ask me. I'll do my best to answer them. I'm currently working on a plan to allow jumping from the balloon that I work at (either a one time thing or an ongoing basis) but things move very slowly when dealing with governing bodies involved!

Maybe I don't understand how you can offer all these rides for less than $2,500, but not to jump out of? What if you filled it up at Bridge Day or something, where 450 jumpers are hanging out for only 6 hours of "legal" jumping...

I really don't even understand the point of this discussion here. It is a Skydive not a BASE jump to launch from a balloon. Same as jumping from a helicopter or any other object above ground that is not fixed to the earth. Balloon jumps are fun and great, but to say "B" is for balloon changes the nature of the sport.

Not that my 2 cents matters just a point to ponder no matter what the cost or how long you would drive etc etc it is what it is ... a skydive

But it is a skydive where you legally use BASE specific gear. It would be a great training tool and would give people a chance to experience the sport much like BD currently does.

I wonder if participation at BD would decrease if something like this was readily available.

Jump from a balloon at 400 feet and call it a skydive ? It may not be a B.A.S.E. jump, but it's no skydive.

By the way, I'd be happy to jump with my B.A.S.E. Rig from a balloon. As for aircrafts, I've worn it out of a helicopter, and an airplane. Low ass skydives but who cares. Jump it from a King Air at 1000 ish feet. You feel like Superman since you're already traveling 100 MPH horizontally when you exit.

Good times

Another excellent point you bring up would we be ALLOWED to jump a BASE rig? What if a balloon goes to 3000 AGL and some knucklehead brings up a velcro rig with a 46pc then what???? How does one ensure that won't happen or is there even a need to do that? What is the balloon operators liability if any, or is it like Potato Bridge where you assume your own risk?? Lots to think about

Base rig is only legal if jumping with a TSO'd reserve. Unless of course someone arraigned something special with a balloon pilot. In particular if the balloon pilot was not a skydiver and you lied to them about having a reserve.

Most balloon pilots don't know anything about skydiving and base rigs so would likely make you sign a waiver stating that you carry a legal reserve.....................

I know I am not getting my "A" license until spring........

I really don't think anyone on here said anything
about a balloon jump with BASE gear being a B...
I think it would be an O for 'Other' but as Ray and
I like to say "WHO CARES?!?"

The point is, as Tony points out, it is a great way
for guys to practice their stuff without flying out
to Idaho.

If you are deep enough in the sport to own BASE
gear then you should know how to configure your
setup for the altitude and intended delay.

If you don't, well those are other threads called
"Nightmare Scenario" and "Being a BASE Jumper".

+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+

My 3 cents --- just as Skydivers should not give a
shit if we jump from 300 feet or without a reserve,
so should you Not care if I jump from a balloon.
It's altitude baby and that is what I am after!!

Why is it so damn important to be legal...lots of BASE jump isn`t legal, so get used to it...........
go and jump the hell of that balloon..

What would be the problem with a velcro rig out of a balloon? Is velcro "black death" out of a balloon or something? If they aren't trying to do fifty flippidy do's, what the hell is the difference?

It is important to be legal because I really want to keep my pilots license and lively hood. One good splat and I am out of business forever.

Thats why it is imperative to have people sign a waiver with a reserve clause. I can not be held responsible if someone lies to me about their rig............................

you mean "One BAD splat "

you mean "One BAD splat "
No I meant "good splat" You see, it is all a matter of perspective.

In our overly litigious society a "good splat" is not a good thing as a maimed, broken or paralyzed person can sue for and win a lot more money than a "bad splat" (fatality)

I'm with you Tom, I just want a little altitude to jump. Why pay a DZ to take you to 12500 when you can compress it to under a 1000 without an aircraft and really have fun!

Then that knuckle head takes a 2 second delay. If you dont have the correct gear, you either modify the jump if possible, or you just dont do it. I climbed a big A with a guy who discovered he had a 46. The winds were too strong and the wires too close to be safe in a short delay, so he climbed all the way back down, and then sold his base rig two days later.

I believe we both know your Aussie friend who did that.

What's the issue with a velcro-closed rig and/or a 46" PC? They both have worked fine for years. My understanding is that a tethered balloon is not governed by the silly FAA rules...

Now that's some funny, very funny poo right there! I was there for the red thread drama and the super secret surprise love notes embroidery from his beloved, and the ooo the blue thread deal. To me that rig looked sharp with nice features when it arrived. I'm the wise guy that used to rig in his shop that quit due to he and his wifes abrasiveness. The red thread drama was so outlandish I could'nt believe the crap he had to say on and off the phone about apex and marty t's gear, I walked away I was so pissed. Sorry I referred him. What a pain in the butt to deal with.