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NickDG has posed the argument about playing "our trump card." That is we say, "No El Cap – No Bridge Day."

He also says:

this is going to start an inter-BASE community WAR.

I declare myself the general of the independence.

Browncoat.

I don't see this plan working. Not because it's not a brilliant idea, but because the NPS likes to be pretend police...that being stubborn asses who won't compromise. How would the WV citizens force the NPS into this? And considering how slowly this country works beaurocratically, how would this be accomplished in a single year? Just some thoughts.

But I still would vote yes. Because I would love to be able to visit Yosemite (or Glacier, or Zion, etc) and be able to see folks jump off the prettiness. You know, versus watching fat tourists ride donkeys and shit.

Alliance bitch
Shiny. your apple fell a long way from the tree, obviously. but mine is still falling

Finally, a bit of comradarie among base jumpers. Bridge day must not happen in 2008. Hate to boycott, but there really is no other way for the locals to pressure the NPS mall security dropouts to change. It would only take 1 yr. and the local business' would crucify those idiots. Right now they have us by the short and curlies and they know it. Every time we attend, we support their agenda. This matter needs to be put in perspective and fixed once and for all!

Just for openers, if I get logged off in mid-sentence it's because the entirety of Southern California is on fire today, and I'm running down the street with a few clothes and my BASE Book manuscript . . .

Gee, Leroy, I only meant the idea as "talk" but as long as this doesn't turn nasty I'll ride along.

I would think just the threat, a few newspaper articles outing the issue, would put some heat on the NPS. But if they call our bluff we'd have to follow through as this is a use it or lose it kind of play.

My one reservation is throwing a monkey wrench into the goodwill Jason Bell has managed to build up over the years, and I'd be more willing if he was okay with it. But I don’t want to put him behind the eight ball either. We must leave him in a place where he can say he has nothing to do with it without getting any heartburn from us.

The best way to do this is probably a "personal boycott" in that if only half the normal amount of jumpers show up next year the point would be made. And only a small percentage of locals spreading the rumor the BASE jumpers might not be coming would play big.

You know, if you think about it, and if you jumped at Bridge Day before the NPS owned the land beneath the bridge, before the Rangers and all the EMS personal invented the idea that without their support Bridge Day would not be possible then every time we put on a good Bridge Day show we are making their case. To corrupt a line from Bill Maher, "We are riding with Rangers."

Not to totally shaft the locals we'd need to do some things some might not agree with. For instance if you are going to boycott you still send in your registration monies to Jason. This would preserve future Bridge Days and the good job Jason is doing.

Our case, if presented even half way decently in the press, would help us. There are a lot of good angles to our argument the press could pick up on if they only knew about them. These are the "sexy" things the press loves. There's our Jan Davis who died fighting for the "permission" to jump El Cap. There's Frank Gambalie, one of the sweetest guys in the world, who died after being chased down like a rabid dog until he drowned in Yosemite's cold Merced River. There's Dennis McGlynn who went to jail for three months along with countless others who did the same or paid fines and now have federal offenses on their records. There's the jumpers who spent days and nights in the cold dungeons that are Yosemite's jail system like Keith Jones who after having to witness a fellow jumper go in on El Cap is thrown into a cell with gang banging murderers in order to scare him into giving up his partners. When that didn’t work the Rangers got his Reserve Unit's Commanding Officer on the phone to order him to talk.

And it goes on and on. And we aren’t fighting for the "right to jump" we have no more right to jump than climbers have the right to climb, fisherman have the right to fish, and hunters have the right to hunt. They all just have permission. And that's all we want too. And this isn't Europe. Besides El Cap, Half Dome, and the Black Canyon, we have nothing in the entire United States that is so well suited to our purposes. And shutting us out of those places is just not playing fair. Let's look at the NPS's objections to BASE jumping one by one.

The first thing they say is it is not an acceptable use of a National Park. The above paragraph shoots that idea full of holes. It is exactly appropriate. Then they say it's too dangerous. Bullshit, the fatality rate would be less than suffered by other accepted "users" of the park per capita. Then they say the "sanctity" of Yosemite would be violated. But I'm here to tell you, you can't walk out of El Cap meadow with a parachute over your shoulder without being full of the sanctity of the place. Then they say spectators would drive into trees at the very sight of a parachute. Has that ever happened anywhere else BASE jumping is allowed? Then they say we'd trample El Cap Meadow. Well, I've only landed on the paths as we all do, and the only time the meadow gets trampled is when a BASE jumper is fleeing from Rangers who are also trampling the meadow.

If I haven't convinced you yet, there is this. It takes a lot of balls to jump off the New River Gorge Bridge, but something we learned long ago in BASE jumping is sometimes it takes more balls to walk back down. So the question you have to ask yourself is do you have the balls not to jump for something you believe in?

And Calvin! I hate to keep singling you out, but you are the squeaky wheel so far so please think about it this way. Sometimes I think I'm preaching the values of Ben Franklyn and Paul Revere to a South Park Generation, but picture a day twenty years from now when your son, Calvin, Jr. is standing on the rounded brow of El Cap one fine morning and he thinks, "Wow, my dad never got to do this legally, but thanks to him, and others like him, I can!"

That, Brother, is what we're shooting for . . .

NickD
BASE 194

BC? well suited???!! have you ever BEEN to that wall? (I assume you have) but SHIT. that is the scariest BASE jump ever! the few i have off her are the most focused moments of my life.



hey man! I'm with ya. we are all on the same side here. we just flank it differently. The respect I have for your generation of BASE jumpers is unquestionable. my pessimism stems from a long childhood of upper middle class mountain suburban oppression.


that is the question. my answer is YES. (because bridge day is stupid anyway) but i don't know... if I had to stop hitting my states crown jewel for an extended time, thats asking a lot.



PS- you should really watch south park. it is easily the least-influential, unbiased, funniest current events/political/historical 'spoof' cartoon ever made. NO ONE should be ashamed of being part of that generation. (plus, I know matt and trey, I went to their schools, and I live a short drive away from South Park, Co. , the real south park is a spitting image of that cartoon background)

>>you should really watch south park<<

LOL, I was going to say Bevis and Butthead, and should have, but I wasn't sure you'd know who they were . . .

NickD
BASE 194

Calvin IS Beavis and Butthead.

Another add to Yosemite being"trampled": have the rangers LOOKED at the state of the valley? when I was there I was thoroughly unimpressed by the valley floor (which was alright since I kept my gaze skyward). There are horse trails with horeshit, tourist shit, huge gross campsites, ugly buildings housing Ansel Adam's photography, etc. National Parks such as that are turning into a theme park. I would think anyone hopping off half dome or El Cap would have a MUCH bigger appreciation for the place than someone car-camping and too out of shape to walk more than the quarter mile to the base of Yosemite falls from the road.

I missed that one. and thank god.

Its an illusion that keeps intelligent blame away from me. but rest assured, Beavis ad Butthead was a horrible program. really glad I was pre-pubescent for that era. the 80s must have sucked.

Easily done.

Buy a slot. Buy 2. Heck if a person can swing it buy 5.

Then don't show.

Or do show but <gasp> don't jump. Instead bring a calm rational discussion to the town, visitors, business people, and Rangers themselves about the issue. Make sure it includes a sensible way to open the objects we desire.

But above all don't jump.

It'll take will power and a desire to see change. It'll take cash. It'll take annoying a few people, and seeing other's jump because they don't care about the issue.

200 of us buying 2 slots a piece and not jumping could make a huge difference.

Jason, regardless of my views of BD in general, this is not personal. I can't in good conscience try to undermine what you are doing, but if you sold all the slots and no one showed, how would it affect you?

You knew this already and didn't tell us!? By the time we realized we were in *the* south park, our tire had already been slashed by the only tire vendor in 100 miles while we were in the gas station.

At least we didn't get trampled by a gargantuan Rosie O'Donnell or anything... but a little warning might have been nice

i didnt know you tools drove through south park. its a really beautifully ugly place, is it not?

We all show and not jump. I would be willing to "not" buy a slot and jump anyway, get arrested for jumping, and yall could tell the 150,000 people who came to see BASE jumping, that the NPS arrested me for jumping, and they will say "we came here to see BASE jumpers and the NPS arrested the only person who jumped" and we could say "yes, AND they do this to us in Yosimite as well" and the 150,000 people will say "well... (pause)...I guess I'll get another funnel cake..."
and then my ass will be in jail and I wont get to go to the party. This sucks!

If you're not gonna jump, don't show either. This way the town doesn't get the beer, liquor, food, and hotel $$$'s either.

I'm sorry, but y'all seem to be in dire need of some perspective from "a local". With all due respect, Bridge Day is about our bridge. Then, came the jumpers. You're all welcome, of course, and while it may be fun for some people to watch what you do, people from around here flock to the bridge anyway, daily, and lots of us wait for that one special day in the fall to walk across it, taking in the panoramic view. While it's a great thing, for you, having it open for jumpers has interfered with some of our past freedoms. You take up a lot of space, and it was always crowded enough, before jumping enthusiasts. I think it's rather lofty to think that you make Bridge Day, and that people show up only to see you. I mean, my gosh! If you "boycotted", we'd still have our day, and it wouldn't result in your getting any new privileges from the NPS. I do wish you as much luck as possible with getting new privileges, though, I might add.

Now, kiss my ass, and have a nice day. I know I will.

Hehehe, just kiddin'.

Do you foreigners realize that every time a liquor store sells a bottle of whiskey, it's one less that us moonshiners can sell? I think, if you want to jump off our bridge, you should do it without parachutes, or do it from some of our shorter bridges. Yall can kiss my ass too, but I "ain't" a-kiddin!

If you are right, then you have nothing to worry about, thanks for your input.

I would have believed you before going to bridge day and seeing it for myself. If jumping is not the main attraction, then why does everyone start leaving when jumping stops at 3pm? It was a beautiful day, and I see no other reason why everyone would leave mid day.

maybe because that is when the authorities clear the bridge so they can re-open it to traffic?

how would the press spin it?
while you see the jumper's humanity, others would see them as lawbreakers who did not respect authority. the folks you mentioned generally would have been alive or well if they had just obeyed.

many people love the show "Cops." they make fun of the idiots that law enforcement tracks down.

heck, look at the illegal immigration issue in the US. are the immigrants trying to find a better life and support their families? are they trying to achieve the american dream? or should they be deported for violating the law? (I hear people ranting and raving about them daily...)

all one can count on is a boycott would raise the profile of BASE. that is all. we would risk looking like petulant children and lose access to the NRGB.

('course Nick could be right...)

just like any BASE jump, let's please think through the consequences BEFORE acting! I bet it turned out much worse than expected for everyone mentioned by Nick. how bad can it really get if we take this action?

You are correct; they want to reopen the bridge because the festival is over when the jumping has ended. BASE jumping is not a sideshow, that is why Bridge day is officially promoted as the "largest extreme sports event in the world."

How many people could the NPS arrest in one six-hour period?

how many roads can they block? all but they can't cover all the woods...
Seriously though...

Now there's an idea. Let's pay all the registrations for BD and then go to Yosemite and jump there instead. What's the difference, right? If your paying for travel, room, and board anyway...

If we get a jump in or we don't does it really matter? BD is about the social atmosphere anyway. We could rent out a hotel and party just like we were in the Holiday Inn. We could pack in the hallways, have a video contest, vendors could setup booths, etc. and there wouldn't be anything the NPS could do about it. Imagine the media frenzy over such a blatant prejudice. It would only take one time and I think there would be new ears open to the issue.

thats a cool idea.

but I don't think it will work. I don't think anyone would care after they turned off the news that night. BASE jumping is sexy, NOT jumping isn't.

Who knows what would happen when you get a bunch of BASE jumpers that close to such an awesome object(s). To say we are going there to jumps is conspiracy to commit a crime. At that point we have broken the law and can be arrested at will. So it's not a good idea to say things like that out loud or on a public/monitored internet forum...

See what I mean???

no, do you mean we should delete our posts? or this thread should not discuss that stuff?

Conspiracy to commit Aerial Delivery?

I can't believe its come to this...

Does anyone have the exact CFR for "Aerial Delivery", including every associated CFR that might be prosecuted with it? I have an idea, if it works, I'll gladly get arrested, fight it like hell, win, and set a precedent...

im not sure, but i think people have already set the opposite precedent. I think the jan davis massacre jumpers were convicted, (or at least charged with) Conspiracy.

I see a red door and I want it painted black.

What I mean is what happens happens. If we were to discuss and plan such a thing, let's say a bank robbery, the police would have cause to arrest and prosecute us strictly on that discussion. They would need nothing more than the conversation.

---edited to add---

Especially if we showed up at the bank with guns in our cars.

What hasn't been mentioned is that many of the jumpers at Bridge Day are first timers or skydivers making Bridge Day jumps. They are not REAL BASE jumpers who jump more then 1 day a year. They could care less about getting any other sites legalized. They get one opportunity a year and they are going to jump when they get it. A "no show" will not happen for that simple fact.

Just pull all their reserve handles, that will ground them... Ahh shit, never mind - wrong sport...

This is a problem that I have thought about for a day or two also, and don't know how to work around.

I think a smaller, but still moderately effective statement could be made if we all wore tee shirts with a "Let us jump in other National Parks Too" message - with a memorized speech every one of us would say to every press person and every spectator whenever they asked us any question.

Something like:

Question from spectator: "Are you going to do a flip too?"

Answer: "BASE jumpers desire to jump in Yosemite and other National Parks too. We want the same privileges as climbers, hang gliders, and hikers."


Question from spectator: "Is BASE scary?"

Answer: "BASE jumpers desire to jump in Yosemite and other National Parks too. We want the same privileges as climbers, hang gliders, and hikers."


Considering the amount of people and press who asked or tried to ask me questions - I would have had 10 opportunities to say these words, at least... If that was the only thing we said to anyone who was not wearing a rig - a message (although maybe not super effective) could be sent.

The speech could be written on cards that could be attached to the photo id lanyards for those who don't memorize. Or they could just repeat what the shirt says...

Maybe an awesome photo of ElCap on the shirt? Maybe an official exit count, "Three, Two, One, ELCAP?"

Okay I wont go to Bridge Day........wait, I haven't gone in 3 years anyway.

However I think this is a damn good Idea. Usually when you hit people where it hurts...in the wallet they tend to listen a little bit.

Haha what a crazy BASE day, and we never even got a jump in. I am still freezing my ass off almost a year later! Did that poor girl ever get to see an actual base jump? (Let's see, slashed tire, hit by another car, tire chains around the axle, stuck in the snow . . . I still don't know how you convinced her to drive ya'll the whole time).

On boycotting bridge day, I think the better course of action would be to send reps in to talk to the local businesses about our agenda and possible effects. Hurting their business isn't the best way to get them on our side. An ultimatum to the NPS would be more effective if the jumpers and town were on the same page before any of the "boycott" threats began. The town and locals would be putting pressure on the NPS before the jumpers even opened their mouths. I think this more grassroots approach leaves better "outs" and has a better chance for success than one climactic stand. In addition, there's no need for this method to be limited to one year . . . it could be carried out over many years in succession. Just think, local businesses increasing their worry each addition year that NPS doesn't allow BASE in parks and increasing their pressure---all without base jumpers publicly saying a word. We stay the good guys and oppressed; not some group of crazed misguided freedom fighters.

Nah man. That was probably horrible for her. I talked to her a few months ago. She wasn't down about it :P. I lost her number though. Do you have it?

 

I agree in the sense that there will never be a total no show unless BD is canceled, but there can be a significant number of no shows...



This is another great idea


What I see ar a bunch of great ideas brewing, and know that not just one tactic will accomplish the tash at hand. It will take many people, and ideas, supporting one unified goal of legalizing jumping in National Parks.


I think Jason Bell posted a PDF file of NPS Discriminations against BASE jumpers... Maybe he could chime in? I believe that no one (including me) wants to hurt any one, be it Jason or the towns-people, so I'd like to get Jason's Perspective on how best to address this so as to not hurt him or the town at large...



leroyDB

that would be really dumb...
first thing is that bridge day aint only BASE.. there will still be a show for spectators
second if they dont go for the "preassure" then you just shut the doors to jump this place speak about burning a object..

My solution would be
Raise the gelleral requirement level to jumpers so we can show NPS that we aint just yeahoos
showing that we actualy does care that would give more respect..

Just my thourght...
NOTE:
I never jumped Bridgeday and probaly never will as i think its a wrong concept going on right now,BUT not jumping there at all would be stupied,its a great way to get info out about BASE...

I'll chime in once I've had the opportunity to read all posts and digest last week's event. However, let it be known that this thread was brought up at a Bridge Day Commission meeting on October 22nd. Cya.

>>Conspiracy to commit Aerial Delivery?

I can't believe its come to this...<<

There was a skydiver visiting Yosemite back in the early-90s who had his family in the car and his rig in the trunk. He was simply on a road trip, hitting a few DZs on the way and just stopping to see the Valley. He had no intention of jumping in the park. While getting his camping stuff out of the car a Ranger saw the parachute leaning against the car and he was jacked up over it. I had some contact with him after it happened and also from a Ranger (retired now) who had made some skydives earlier in his life and was sympatric to our cause. When Mike Pelkey asked me for the newspaper clippings from his 1966 El Cap jumps, it was this Ranger who made copies and sent them to me. He'd also email me other little tidbits from the "inside" once in a while.

The jumper said the whole encounter frightened his kids, that they almost confiscated his rig, and threatened him with "conspiracy" to break the aerial delivery law unless he came clean. They even looked through his logbook and he told me if he'd had a BASE jump logged in there anywhere (he didn't) he probably would have been cooked. After that episode it went around the skydiving community that you shouldn't innocently visit Yosemite with your gear in the car.

The Ranger I knew wrote me to say they had parachute "class" one morning soon after that. Pulling out their collection of confiscated gear they went through how to tell a skydiving rig from a BASE rig. He didn’t elaborate but I imagine it started with something like this: "Gentlemen, you'll notice these BASE rigs are all black, while the skydiving gear is made up of mostly loud colors."

I've also know some skydivers just visiting Yosemite who had skydiving bumper stickers on their cars who were being stopped and hassled.

Also some BASE jumpers who were ratted out in the park (by talking about their plans to the wrong person in a campground) have been intercepted and charged with "conspiracy." Like someone said upboard it’s like getting caught in the bank parking lot with a mask, gun, and hold up note in your possession.

On the boycott issue at BD. I would hope only the threat would get the ball rolling for us as I'd hate to actually screw the people of Fayetteville. And staging something in Yosemite would have been fine for me up until recently. But, I'm for the first time in my life working in a field outside the parachuting industry and having enough trouble explaining away the kid stuff I did when I was younger. The last thing I need now is some type of "federal" beef on my record.

NickD
BASE 194

About the NPS "class" in BASE rigs... when I was busted at Lake Powell, one of the rangers looked over a Sorcerer and told another ranger "Don't take that one. It's a skydiving rig. Notice the two parachutes?"

Thankfully, their class wasn't as in-depth as it could have been.

 
You mint to say sorcerer, right.

Lee

I agree.

Nick argues that every BD shows BASE can work in the NPS system.
but every year, activity at other spots demonstrates we as a group lack any respect for authority. the NPS will see the need to regulate jumping to ensure minimal impact to other activities. i.e. that will wish to implement controls (only permit morning jumps). because of the extra-curricular activites at BD, I doubt the NPS will trust us to obey these same controls. lacking any co-operation from us, it is so much easier to simply ban.

I'd rather see efforts to develop trust than foster antagonism.

I made my first (2) BASE jumps this past weekend at (my first) Bridge Day. It was AMAZING!!! I was definitely thinking "why didn't I do this before?" and "can't wait till next year!" When I saw this post cross-referenced on DZ.com, I thought "omg, they better not stop Bridge Day!!". But after reading through this entire post, I'm smelling what you're cooking. I'm not a "real" BASE jumper but I want to be. I'll boycott Bridge Day. Sign me up for a no show. I want to help!

looks like you got your wish man, everyone either agreed or disagreed. But then there were a lot of other random ideas that watered down the original one. It all just keeps supporting my original theory*. but like I said, I will support something if someone organizes it.

*Hopeless..............

>>I'd rather see efforts to develop trust than foster antagonism<<

What planet are you on?

The antagonism started with them, not us, and they've persecuted us since day one.

You go ahead and make nice with those guys.

NickD
BASE 194

 
You got to admit that we... wait that would be you, did earn some of that antagonism back in the early 80's.

Lee

I was waiting for that.

was it not those early NP jumpers that got into shit with the NPS and ruined NP jumping for everyone?

(im really not sure, thats just what i remember being told)

Bullshit - the jumpers who broke the rules back then weren't BASE jumpers they were skydivers . . . And believe it the NPS realizes that now more than some of us do.

This doesn't belong to the NPS, it belongs to us . . .

NickD
BASE 194

 
It may belong to us, like your car sterio belongs to you even after it's been pawned for crack money by the theaf. You can be as self rightious about it as you like. The bottom line is it's in some one elses posetion just like your sterio. And just to make my point I note that you had to sneek out into the medow in the middle of the night to take that photo.

Lee

and we PAY the NPS to manage it for all. it may be our ball, but we hire them to be the referees.

let's face it, different users have different priorities. users can conflict with each other. just as courts decide which person's right has primacy, the NPS is charged with co-ordinating and managing conflicting interests (and I dis-agree with them).

we must own up to WE started this! not them. if we do not take ownership we will always be a victims. (nobody was arrested BEFORE Mike and Brian jumped. their act began this battle.) I'd think you'd tire of playing the victim after 30 years. (I could not do it...)

Nick, you deserve a lot of respect and credibility for a ton of stuff. please don't squander it. I want to BUY your book, not just read a friend's copy. I want to learn from you. but it's time you stop being so freakin high-minded! you seek to enrage and create outrage, making you sound like an irrate FOX noise commentator.

heck, maggot enjoyed stirring people up. at least he did it for his own entertainment. until you find an effective endgame, I see little difference between you two.

you write convincingly. MLK spoke amazingly well. he led people. he earned credibility fighting for his ideals. I hope you find a way to be effective and earn credibility. I want you to succeed.

but face it...
haven't you been part of most attempts to organize?
how many have succeeded?
tell me YOUR arrest story related to that rock.

maybe your rabblerousing fired people up and THEY suffered arrest or worse. you always desire to co-opt others for YOUR ideals. no BD? heck, the NPS would love that. they'd paint US as the villians. most locals would get all pissy with US. look at how superficially americans vote. do you really think they'd connect the dots? the headline would be "BASE jumpers boycott BD." I doubt any copy regarding the NPS issue would be above the fold.

BASE has harsh realities. failure to recognize these realities will only lead to additional suffering. that is why I loved that you created the List. it permitted us to learn and adapt.

the more we antagonize law enforcement, the more entrenched they will become. they will view us with disdain and treat us like criminals. much of the public will side with them seeing us no better than illegal immigrants. heck, their job is to ENFORCE. our disobedience is a huge slap in their face and shows them no respect.

but you demand respect without any williness to show it? is that reasonable?

hypocrisy!

aren't you the one who laments this site being split off from dz.com?
aren't you the one that hates "the wall" between the two sports?
aren't you the one that wants us to all get along in one happy world?

then STOP blaming them!

I've been reading through these posts and I feel like I should share a West Virginian's point of view.

I completely understand how everyone feels about not being able to jump in other parks. However, I think boycotting Bridge Day would cause more harm to your cause than good.

I know that for the past couple of years Jason Bell has tried to get jumping from the New River Gorge Bridge legalized for any time of the year. So far he has been unsuccessful in doing so. I do believe that if base jumpers boycotted Bridge Day for that cause the people here in West Virginia would support you because it would deal with an issue that is right at home. However, if you boycott Bridge Day (and take away all the money it brings to the residents) for a cause that is 2,000 miles away, I do believe the people here would be very resentful.

As far as hitting people where it hurts to get them to listen, we (the people of West Virginia) are not the ones restricting what and where you can jump. You will not be hurting the Park Service by boycotting, you will be hurting the residents.

I just ask that you please give careful consideration to all involved in this matter before making any concrete decisions.

in all honesty, because i don't know, if bridge day did not happen, would every buisness in fayettville go under if bridge day did not happen? would the locals feel empty for the entire year because they did not get their yearly supply of 'extreme sports'?

Of course not. Fayettville, and West Virginia as a whole, does in fact make a lot of money from Bridge Day. However, there is more to it than just that.

I don't know if you are aware of this, but every Bridge Day, Fayettville's population skyrockets from 2,500 to 150,000 -250,000 people. For six hours, it is the largest city in the entire state. People come from all over to experience "the largest extreme sports event in the world". It is a sense of pride for us. I know that some people won't grasp that concept, but it is a big deal for us. And as I've said before, if you take that away for a cause 2,000 miles away, many people will be very resentful about it.

I'm not saying a boycott would be right or wrong, I'm just simply trying to give you an idea of what the average West Virginian would think of it.

maybe, but it really sucks that someone born in 1987 (me) is still getting hit with flak from something that happened before they were even born. I was going to hug some rangers on my way out of the landing area this year but they seemed unreceptive

ok, I understand pride, and i respect that.

(forgive colorful metaphors.)
...so... but, basically we are only allowed to do our sport that the world has collectively deemed 'extreme' if everyone can watch it for 6 hours of one day? I understand that the only reason we are now still allowed to do this one day thing is because of all the 'support' from the WV locals.

(wv_girl, I'm not saying this to you, just blowing smoke about the situation)

The NPS is winning this war.

I agree. Boycotting BD to demand legal El Cap would be like demanding to save pink elephants in Antarctica. "El who???" - that's what average BD spectator and locals would say in puzzlement. They don't know our history, our dreams, they won't descend on NPS with torches and pitchforks. Nothing good will result from this move.

How about we set a smaller, more understandable to locals, goal - legalize NRGB jumping year round from catwalk. We let locals know well in advance what we want and what we will do in protest if our (understandable) demand is not met. Then they'll think for a year, "well, what's the big fucking deal? why not let them jump? in addition to bringing 100-200,000 spectators on Bridge Day, they'll bring spectators year round... even better for us!!!"

That would be a good start. "No El Cap – No Bridge Day" won't work, it's clear as day. They hate us too much in Yosemite to turn the tables so easy. Let's start with the NP where BASE jumping is already permitted for one day a year, and expand that. Once that is achieved, in a few more years we can start inching our way to other parks.

"No bridge every day - No Bridge Day"

WV Girl, in your previous comments, you've already painted quite an image in the minds of people not from here, but until after you've taken a poll from "the average West Virginians", please don't speak on behalf of the entire state.

Who is this, that all of you are referring to as "the locals"? Residents of Fayetteviile? Fayetteville's merchants?

"Locals are West Virginians", and many of us don't embrace commercialism and never will.

There are other ways to organize and work on your plight, and Bridge Day would go back to being something that quite a few "locals" could enjoy as it used to be, were you not to return. Really, with all due respect, BD doesn't stand for "BASE Day".

Most everything about West Virginia is extreme, and it was that way long before the first parachute opened over the state. It was extreme before the first base jumper arrived, and even before the first man made bridge. People come from all over the world, just to see West Virginia's extreme beauty. They come to the New River to see how it cuts through the Appalacian Mountains. The river is extremly beautiful. The float trips through the white water are extreme, and the the New River Gorge Bridge is an extreme bridge. Not only is the arch span bridge extremely beautiful, it's also extremely high. The extreme height of the bridge is one of the reasons that base jumping is allowed. But West Virginians and many of its visitors enjoyed Bridge Day before you jumpers got here, and will enjoy it with or without you. You're welcome here, but please don't think that it's all about you. The main attraction is the gorge and the bridge that crosses it. It always was, and always will be.

I thought that Base started not long after bridge was built... That would mean that "you" only had a couple years for it to be the "way it used to be."


mantis and smashed, would you fill out your profiles... Being anonymous makes your posts hold less water...

I appreciate your comments and opinions.

Mantis, I'm not exactly sure who you think I am in all of this, but I am not a base jumper. I am a resident of West Virginia that would hate to see BD go. That is the only plight I have in this whole issue.

Here is the problem I see from all sides in this. Part of the base community wants to cancel BD because they figure it will create a large loss of money for residents and business, which in turn they believe will make the people of WV go on a manhunt for the NPS. Another section of the base community realizes that even though cancelling BD would create a loss of money, it would not do so in a way to cause businesses to go "belly up". These jumpers feel that BD should be cancelled on principles alone.

A large portion of the residents will feel resentment towards the base community if BD is cancelled for a cause completely unrelated to them 2000 miles away. However, another very small portion apparantly doesn't even want the jumpers around in the first place (mantis, SmashedUndertheBridge), of which cancelling BD would have zero positive effects for the jumpers.

This is going nowhere. Anyone that says BD would still be the same without the jumpers is wrong. Just look at 2001, when BD was cancelled due to "security threats". Instead, Fayettville replaced it with "Spirit of Bridge Day", which contained everthing a regular BD contains minus the jumpers. Did a quarter of a million people attend that? NO, not even close! People don't get in their cars and drive for hours just to buy an $8.00 funnel cake.

When that happened, angry base jumpers wrote in to the Fayette Tribune voicing their opinions about the matter. One in particular stated that there was no credible threat to cancel BD, just that the NPS saw it as a golden opportunity to get the event cancelled for that year.

If that was the case, do you really think the NPS would care less about BD being boycotted in the future? My guess is that they wouldn't. And, with the exception of a few locals that apparanlty don't want base jumpers around regardless, I feel that it is unfair to use the residents as pawns in this never-ending chess match.

skydivers jumping off fixed objects? so what are we?

belive me they thi we are a bunch of yahoos as we cant selfregulate not even at big events..

Its like guns.. theres pros and cons...
telling NPS that the hill is yours will make what?

if we choose not to jump at BD what difference does it make besides we dont have fun that one day a year..
will be the sam,e effect if i say "if you dont folow my mind i wont drink this beer" dooh what would your answer be..
my guess"fuck you i dont change my mind but ill have fun while drinking your beer while your sitting there beeing angry whith me"

NPS will laugh their arse off..... SO will i
btw ill keep jumping my objects arround here if its ok by you guys.. theres plenty out there.. if i really want a jump ill do it no matter if i risk a ticket and loosing my gear..

You need to lay off the booze and the keyboard and go out and jump, seriously.

You've been living in the past missing out what the fuck is in front of your eyes.

I'll be at BD 2008-20XX if I'm still around with the living, jumping, death-camping, and partying my ass off, no different than any other jumping night.

Abbie and I tried to organize 100+ way off El-cap. As usual people are all talks and few walk it. You're all fucking lions infront of a screen.

"Locals Only" is half way up and 20 min away, tonight is jump night.

I agree.

Sometimes we need to remember that "our cause" is not so high and mighty to outsiders as we might think. Boycotting bridge day and hurting the local economy is not the way to go. If anything, like WV_Girl said, it could potentially be used as leverage for increased NRGB jumps, but that's where it stops. People already think we're crazy, the last thing we need to do is hurt innocent businesses and residents just because some big bad bully 2,000 miles away wont let us jump off a cliff.

I bet that would look real mature. Who do you think would wind up on the wrong end of the pitchforks then?

I'm all about getting together and fighting for increased access, but we really should think things through before we shoot ourselves in the foot.

</.02>

...about boycotting bridge Day 08, though I understand the principal (as the Bridge Day 06 – no NPS banner guy) I think we need to separate the two as they are not really related in the big picture. I am all for protests against the NPS and their unethical and in my opinion unlawful treatment of BASE jumpers in National Parks but Bridge Day is the most visible, longest standing, and the most positive promotion we have in the sport. A boycott would only hurt us. (I see some like thoughts here now)

If you want to really protest something then lets show up in mass at a place we all want to see opened… always lots of talk each year but it will take some sacrifice to make this happen.

There have been some great posts in the past about passive (packing in the field - no jumps) and more aggressive protests. If this is really something people are ready to commit to (being arrested, paying significant $$$, courts dates, Attorney fees, etc) then lets quit the "chat" and sack up!

How about Earth Day 2008!

Donk

So now they can arrest you for just having a base rig in a NP. I call bullshit. Somebody should organize a peaceful protest at the main ranger station with media coverage of everybody wearing rigs. It is our constitutional right to assemble.

Please don't get me wrong. Although I'm not a base jumper, I enjoy watching the sport. But I think everyone needs to get something straight. The base jumpers didn't start bridge day, nor can they cancel it. They can boycott and refuse to participate. But bridge day will continue with or without the jumpers. There isn't a business on that highway that started because of the jumpers, and none will go under without them. The local economy doesn't need them as much as they think.

We didnt say that we would cancel BD, It is obvious that we can't do that... I took it as common sense, but ok let me spell it out... Nevermind you figured it out...

But we definately could advertise in local and national papers, even better yet radio...

I think it should be moved out by Marty's place in California for a year.

YEAH!!!!!! that would be SICK!!!!!

i have not hopped that thing yet. i want.

Leroybd, excuse me, but I'm not posting comments anonymously, and don't know what you'd like on my profile page to make my opinions seem more credible.

To whomever said it previously, BASE jumpers are not viewed as crazy by everyone. Passion has a longstanding reputation of interfering with rational thought processes, though, no matter what the passion's for.

It appears there are some common goals in this community, but it looks like there's a lack of direction towards reaching any. If you can have a meeting of the minds to prioritize what you want, and focus on whether it's for BD to be more than one six hour time frame once a year, or whether it's for the right to jump in national parks, you could effectively work together towards whichever it is.

With that being said --- and hoping you'll all pardon my ignorance concerning what's been tried so far, aside from peaceful protests and illegal jumps, (and BD boycott talk) --- have you organized, and petitioned your cause in manners more appealing to the Bureau of Land Management and the National Park Service Director?

Activism may not be as much fun to go about in a less extreme fashion (pardon the pun), but, in addressing something through the appropriate channels, you can get results. Nothing is impossible when you really put your brains to the task, by getting the people that you want something from working on your side.

Are you, or have you been, petitioning the governors across the nation, state and federal representatives, local park managers, etc., together, as one unit? I hope so, and wish you luck in whatever goals you have.

Leroybd, to the contrary, you guys (some of you) have been talking about whether or not to have bridge day, or whether or not to cancel bridge day. Your question may be whether or not to "participate" on bridge day, but you make it sound like you think it's only your day.

Admittedly, you guys are the reason for Bridge Day's big success, but some people also want to see the bridge and walk its length, looking at the changing foliage in the hardwood forest below, and the beauty of the New River Gorge.

Although Bridge Day has been a big success, it has become almost impossible to get across the bridge, or to find a spot to snap a photograph. From that point of view, and to put it frankly, it's too big of a success. There's too many people on the bridge.

I understand that this is your forum, and that I am only one voice, but I am a resident of Nitro, WV, and I know how some of the locals feel. I do hope that you succeed in getting longer sessions on the bridge, and I think it would also be nice if you can get additional days. Perhaps there could also be a day for sightseers to walk the bridge without jumps being conducted.

It's only my opinion, but I feel quite certain that you will "never" get the keys to the catwalk, and I don't think you are going to get to jump legally unless all traffic is stopped in both directions. That will cause a 45 minute detour on every Bridge Day, so it's not going to be an everyday thing. In my opinion, it's grandiose to think otherwise.

I believe the best way to accomplish getting other days to jump is to continue to make Bridge Day a big success. The businessmen will be behind you, and if the Bridge Days go smoothly and, as a plus, safely, you may be able to expand on what you already have if you hang on to what you've got, take your support, and go through the right channels.

It will take baby steps, and you don't get there by going backwards. As far as El Cap is concerned, I think you should write a success story, along with some testimonials from reputable businessmen who have prospered because of Bridge Day, and take your package to the places you are trying to acquire. I think you should build a support base in those areas. You might even want to make some DVD's and design some T-shirts. Well, there's lots of things you can do, but you need a committee of jumpers to establish a set of common goals.

I made 4 static line jumps a long time ago in Lakeside, California. I was in the Navy and one of the guys that had already jumped, asked a couple of us if we'd like to try it. The first 5 jumps, in those days, about 35 years ago, were to be static line jumps, followed by 5 jumps that were what they called "clear and pull". After that you could start making delays. Back then, it took 80 jumps to be considered an expert. I jumped from 2000 feet using T-10's and Double L's. I guess those are antiques by now. Needless to say, I was real scared every time. I never chickened out though, and I continued to make jumps until we left port in San Diego.

Well, I wish you guys luck.

Yes it Should!***

* AS A THREE DAY EVENT
* THREE TIMES + a YEAR
*25 BASE JUMP MIN.

fuck all: "i base jump, BUT ONLY AT BDay cuz its legal an safe" crowd. hell make it a min of 4 BASE jumps a year, filter out the douche, move on.

i also like the idea because i can (and do*) drive there on a frequent basis.

I'd like to see you not posting at the same time, from the same computer, as another login.

Please choose one of your two logins and stick with that one.

Thanks!

What exactly would be the point of petitioning land managers who allow BASE? To get them to try to lobby other land managers on our behalf? Regardless of how friendly some BLM or Forest Service folks might be, and regardless of their allowing BASE, I think that pushing them to lobby on our behalf is over-stepping, and only likely to annoy our existing friends.



Again, what would be the point of lumping those folks who already permit BASE in with those who do not? This really seems like a counterproductive approach. If they already allow BASE, why lobby them as if they did not?

I think the current approach (working with land managers on a smaller scale, either object by object or at most one system at a time, with the majority of effort focused on the park unit level in between) is likely to bear more fruit (and, in fact, has already done os) than the one you are suggesting.

 


My 2¢... If we want to use BD to make a stand, we (by we I really mean Jason) could refuse to pay any money to the NPS unless they allow us to jump in atleast one other park. Seems like a reasonable request to me. When they refuse, they will be the bad guys in the eyes of the good people of W.V.
"Sorry Mr/Mrs spectator. We know you came out here to watch us jump. We want to, but those mean rangers refused to issue the permit this year"
It's BS that we have to pay for them to stand around for 6 hours anyway!

Tom, Yuri and the WV girl are right. First, I've been around helping with BD for 10 years including when the first real one started in 1982 with about 40 jumpers and 10,000 spectators. The next year, 83 with 100 jumpers and 100,000 spectators, Carl Boenish, Phil Smith and I were talking to the Chamber of Commerce President at the time, Doug Mattie when I asked him if the jumping in anyway detracted from the real reason for Bridge Day, (Celebrated for the locals to walk on the new beautiful structure and view the fall colors not to mention the 45 minute drive it saved.) In answer to my question, the Chamber President came right out and said, BASE jumping is Bridge Day. It is the draw for all the crowds.
Nick D, you remember you were on staff the year the river was so high, Jean myself, you and others all voted to Not Accept the NPS permit when John Dragon said he could not contract the rafts to save anyones life in that flood. Just the announcement on the radio that morning that there would be no jumping cut the crowd by at least half.

First, a Boycott never works for an object and festival like this. There will always be jumpers willing to come.
Second, all it would hurt is the local economy of people who have been pretty good to us since it started, the Western Pancake House among them.
Third, a boycott would only please the local NPS Rangers even if they got a bit of heat from a WV Senator or Gov.
Fourth, the NPS in Yosemite could care less about a bunch of BASE jumpers in WV trying to essentially blackmail the NPS into allowing BASE in Yosemite.
Local dialogue education and a local approach will work much better as experience has already shown.

Rick Harrison
#38

sorry Rick, but we went to breakfast while there. we MEANT to go to the Pancake House, but it was closed...

(did it move?)

I hope it's not dead. It was sort of a Sunday morning gathering place even as late as 04.
Rick

Tom, it's convenient for my fiance and me to share our computer. Knowing how BASE is, it was laughable of me to even suggest that anyone would want to unite and use democratic means of obtaining rights. Carry on as you do, keep butting your heads together, breaking laws, and blaming someone else for it. Someone on here who isn't even a jumper, thinks that the mean old rangers prevented BD in 2001, and that they derived pleasure from it.

Do you guys know (like the man sitting next to me analogized), that if a person is caught in the woods with a deer rifle when it's not deer season, or near a stream with a fishing pole in hand and no license, they get busted? Laws exist for many good reasons, and they don't get changed by breaking them.

I said earlier that I don't think BASE jumpers are crazy, but, many do seem to have compromised reasoning skills. Don't misunderstand me, I don't mean as far as jumping goes. I mean, that you can't expect to win favor with a warped sense of the law. There's a strange sense of what freedom is, here, too.

I'm an outsider who just doesn't understand shooting yourselves in the feet. Hahaha. Well, no, I "do" understand it, but I "don't", at the same time.

My fiance may want to post a comment right after I do, I don't know yet, but we do, both, GENUINELY, feel for your cause, whichever or whatever it is.

You guys have a passion for what you do, and I admire that. It also takes a lot of nerve, and if you are to jump without injury, it takes a considerable amount of skill. But because of the difficulty in measuring one's talent, it's not considered to be a competitive sport. And because of your passion and the lengths you will go to to make a desired jump, ie, trespassing, violating National Park Service rules, etc., you are considered by some to be little more than renegade daredevils. That can be admirable too. Like they say, "Ladies love outlaws". But, with that attitude and/or reputation, you will always get resistance from those who are hired to enforce the laws. I think you will accomplish more by doing things that help to convince people that BASE jumping is a respectable hobby, and as a sport, it can be competitive and reasonably safe. 111 BASE jumpers, with base numbers, have died in a few short years, so you guys need to exercise a great deal of caution, not only to protect your own bodies, but also to help develop a better reputation for the sport. I believe that it's also important to abstain from illegal activities. It is a free country, with limitations, but in your travels, as long as you aren't a resident of the state where you're jumping, you are a guest. In most cases, breaking the law will only hinder your cause. Thanks for allowing me to visit your blog.

It closed down last Dec. That's what one of the servers at Bob Evans told us. She had worked at the Western for many yrs, and even remembered us.

Why doesn't the USPA get involved again? I'll bet a lot of today's members would love to skydive off that cliff. It would be nice to see my dues and ratings fees go to something useful. They could even charge us for a Fixed Object rating. Maybe we need to work on erasing the line between skydiving and base and all just be parachutists. And get some base jumpers on the USPA board?

http://vertical-visions.com/documents/Yosemite_Permit_Request_2005.pdf

Just some info that will allow you to understand a littlbe bit more of what some BASE jumpers have tried. And if I'm not mistaken Jason Bell is the guy that runs Bridge Day, and has a company to back him up.

Mantis, I really wish you would thoroughly read my posts before you accuse me of saying or doing things I never said or did. First, you accused me of being a base jumper threatening to boycott BD to further my plight, of which you also said you would better be able to enjoy BD if I was not to return in the future because of it.

Now, you are accusing me of being the person that "isn't even a jumper" that thinks "the mean old rangers prevented BD in 2001, and that they derived pleasure from it". I never said that. I said that base jumpers were very upset when BD 2001 was cancelled, and some of them wrote to the Fayette Tribune to voice their opinions about it. One in particular stated, and I quote:


Just so you don't misunderstand something I've said here for a third time, here is the link to that letter. http://www.blincmagazine.com/...owthread.php?t=20279. It's the 4th post on the page. Check it out, and please get your facts straight before replying to anything else I say.

The USPA is in a position to advocate for SKYDIVERS who adhere to ALL USPA rules and doing so FOLLOW ALL FAA rules. a single parachute system is ONLY to be used in an emrgency, not recreationaly (FAA).

I dont want a bunch of skydivers jumping off El Cap, remember the results of last time? This is why we are having this BS conversation. FUCK THAT.

PAY MORE FEES to the USPA. Id rather choke on my own shit, really. The only good the USPA has really delivered me in 10 years is a shitty rag that is 3 weeks late, regularly. do i need to pay for that, yes. bit only to have fun with airplane jumpers who dont go to lodi.

SKYDIVERS ARE SKYDIVERS, BASE JUMPERS ARE BASE JUMPERS WHO MAY JUMP OUT OF AIRPLANES ON OCCASION.

The line is a mentality of acceptance of personal risk. The line WILL ALWAYS BE THERE. You cant buy it away with dues.

nic

Actually, breaking the law is a common way that laws get changed. Appellate courts routinely overturn laws that are decided to be unconstitutional. These courts would not have the opportunity to make those decisions if someone didn't "break the law."

ADDED QUOTES

Are you seriously saying that you would be against the USPA lobbying for legal access to the National Parks???

It makes more sense than trying to organize something from scratch. Most of us already pay dues to a parachute related association with people in Washington and lawyers and all that. Why aren't we pushing them to work on this? If we have to pay for it anyways, shouldn't we try to get something out of it instead of just being pissed off about it?

Let's elect Jason Bell Executive Diector of the USPA and see what happens before we say fuck Bridgeday.

 

I thought a bit more about my "no pay" idea. NPS hands us the bill for the permit, we hand them a list of a few places we want to jump.
Give us one, any one, your choice, and we'll pay your over inflated fee. I think we all know what their answer will be. So, now what? Maybe the BD commision, chamber of commerce, or a sponser (dodge?) will step up and pay. Not what we really want, but a moral victory since they aren't getting MY money.
Maybe no-one pays. We all show up ready to jump anyways. Set up the exit platform, hire the boats & busses, the whole bit. Now the NPS has to face 100,000+ angry hillbillys. They either let us jump for "free", or are forever blamed for ruining W.V's largest festival. Imagine the negative press, and pressure from W.V. politicians that would generate. They might even get sued by all the vendors who will lose $$$.
Or maybe they will give us that one site. Our nose will be under the tent. As long as we don't bloody up the tallus, we'll be all the way in eventually.

[gulp]

Sorry, Rick. It's dead and gone. I'm more than a little bummed about it, too.

On another note...

Not to be insulting, but most of this thread shows remarkable ignorance when it comes to sports access issues. IMO, you'll get nothing but a sideline seat by boycotting BD.

You guys are trying to re-invent the wheel here and, quite frankly, what you've brough to the table won't roll. From what I can tell, some of you don't even have a basic understanding of NPS hierarchy. Winning access takes years of effort to lay the foundations of mutually respectful relationships. If ever the axiom, "catch more flies with honey..." was accurate, it's in the fight to open previously closed areas to the types of activities we all want the freedom to do.

Instead of organizing a boycott, which is more likely to shut doors than open them, look to other sports that have long(er), (slightly more) illustrious histories of fighting for and winning access. Contact climbing's Access Fund and paddling's American Whitewater and start by asking them how they have accomplished some of the mindblowing feats of access they have under their collective belts.

Best of luck, folks. I hope you get what you want.

Not that I am a fan of paying more money (or any at all) for jumping - but - what if for the next Bridge Day, there was a $10/20 surcharge that goes straight to a fund to get an attorney to end this. (400 jumpers x $20) $8000/yr.

I think the real beauty of this idea is the irony- everyone registering at Bridge Day, getting their names and pictures on the NPS database that doesn't exist, and generally participating in the only NPS allowed BASE activity (which double ironically is the World's Largest BASE Boogie), will be contributing to the changing of the NPS injustice.

What I think is "ironic" is if you look at the escalating fees Jason is facing and you can recall earlier Bridge Days - I think it was '87 or '88 and I was helping with the collecting of the $30 fee when J.D. Walker came to the head of the line. "Thirty dollars," he exclaimed, "You fuckers should be paying me!"

I looked over at Phil Smith, BASE number 1, who was sitting next to me, and he said, "The sad part is, he's right."

I'm reading what everyone is saying here. The local wuffo perspective, the jumpers saying it takes years to build up "mutual" trust, and so on and so forth. But you know what? That boat already sailed and nether the Rangers nor we were on board when it left. We are the wronged party in all this – we suffered the wrath of their flawed thinking over the past 30 years.

I also see Jason trying to make the peace, doing the right thing, but it’s not the Rangers per say we are at war with – it's the system. When Jason says "It's funny how most rangers and jumpers can get along if we just communicate a little more." I know that already. I've met my share of cool Rangers over the years.

The NPS won’t give us anything unless the system forces them into it. And we've earned the right to jump in Yosemite. We've earned it through fines paid, jail time served, and lives lost over the past thirty years. You guys can go begging with your hats in your hands for permission to jump, but count me out. I can’t get the thought out of my head of Frank Gambalie's mother crying her eyes out . . .

NickD
BASE 194

Yes that is correct. I do not want the USPA involved. I dont want to pay pore fees to them. They all got off El cap back in they day and then abandoned any thought of this may be something we want to save. I do not want any regulation in BASE jumping, however it might be necessary. However that regulation and what I think the USPA would regulate would be quite different.

To make it clear: NO USPA in BASE jumping.

I understand that being nice to the NPS is one possible solution. But I also think that my kids aren't going to be able to jump El Cap legally the way we're going.

The question is- What are we willing to do proactively to get the same access as everyone else, and jump our National Parks sometime this decade?

I think j_ung has some really good points that should be followed through on.

I would pay for you to not have kids.


You are right, in my opinion. Without an "official" access fund/club/regulatory body (even if the regulations are few and simple) - we are just a group of disorganized whiners and nothing will change.

I wrote a post, that I chickened out of posting a few days ago. I think I got to 3, 2, 1 c.... before I climbed down and closed the web browser. It basically was a poll, "how much would you be willing to pay to a BASE organization with bylaws that focus the resources on opening earth objects?" But using the word "organization" appears to be a sin to BASE jumpers, and the only bigger sin is using the word "regulation."


I suspect we all would have to pay the price of a canopy, almost yearly, to get enough finances for lawyers and lobbyists to do their thing... And, once the sites were opened, we would need simple regulation that would have to be followed to keep the sites open (gear choice, minimum experience, minimum training, landing and exit areas approved to reduce errosion, etc).


So my question is - who is going to step up to the plate and organize resources? Who is going to pay money? Who is going to pay with time, like 40 hours a week time?

One way we could raise some money, or at least some awareness, is by selling these, if there is a Bridge Day next year . . .

For those not aware here's Frank Gambalie's story as printed in the October 1999 issue of OUTSIDE Magazine. When this incident occurred there was (as usual) disagreement in the BASE community on who was responsible. I don’t think I ever hated the BASE community as much as when that happened. But fine, to each his own. My opinion came, not based on some obscure law, but from a basic sense of right and wrong and crossing the Merced River to seek refuge in the woods beyond El Cap meadow was something many jumpers had done in the past.

Frank was Mentor to more than a few new BASE jumpers including Shane McConkey who later said, "The National Park Service, with its ridiculous hatred for BASE jumping, is responsible for Frank's death."

I went further than that, and this is how I felt since the day it happened, "Frank Gambalie was chased down like a rabid dog and murdered by the NPS."

I was always conflicted about including Frank on the BASE Fatality List or not. Technically he didn’t die BASE jumping, but if you hold with the fact no BASE jump is truly over until you are kicking back with a beer, then yes, Frank did die BASE jumping.

Frank has been dead for almost 9 years now, dead at the age of 28. And for what? Because he made a parachute jump?
NickD
BASE 194

The Strange and Untimely Death of Frank Gambalie III

The last time frank Gambalie III was mentioned in these pages, he was on a cell phone speaking with the pioneering "rope jumper"Dan Osman, who was in the process of making his final, fatal dive off Yosemite's Leaning Tower in November 1998 ("Terminal Velocity," April). Two months after that article appeared, Gambalie, 28, took a running leap off the edge of El Capitan's west wall. At 5:10 a.m.on the morning of June 9, he completed a 16-second free fall, opened his BASE-jumping parachute, and touched down unscathed in El Capitan Meadow. Minutes later Gambalie, who knew that jumping is illegal, was dead, drowned in the Merced River while trying to outrun park rangers. One of several bizarre incidents plaguing the Yosemite Valley area over the past year, his death was soon eclipsed by an even more horrifying tragedy:the July 22 discovery of the body of Joy Ruth Armstrong, a park naturalist who was beheaded by confessed serial killer Cary Stayner.

"BASE" stands for "Buildings, Antennae, Spans, and Earth," the four primary types of fixed objects from which skydiving's splinter sect leaps. Today, the activity is forbidden in all national parks at all times, but Yosemite officials estimate that each year around 100 jumpers poach its precipices. "El Cap is a crown jewel,"says Gambalie's mentor, Adam Filippino. "People travel from all over the world to do it. The lure is high."If caught, the Class B misdemeanor carries a maximum $5,000 fine or six months in jail and usually includes forfeiture of the perpetrator's gear. Park rangers are vigorous about prosecuting as many as they can catch. And that's where Gambalie came in.

When Gambalie landed in El Capitan Meadow, euphoric from his 3,000-foot drop, two rangers appeared, as if from nowhere, bent on apprehending him. Yosemite spokesman Kendell Thompson says the rangers had been alerted when they sighted the jumper's canopy opening in the predawn haze. But according to Gambalie's cohorts, the rangers had received an advance tip from an informant who camped atop El Cap the same night, cozied up to the jumper to learn his plans, and later alerted officials via cell phone. When the rangers immediately gave chase, Gambalie sprinted to the Merced River, which was swollen with spring snowmelt, dove in, and began to swim across. By the time the rangers reached the bank, Gambalie was gone. His body was recovered 28 days later, pinned beneath a river rock 300 feet from where he had last been seen. At the time of his death, Gambalie stood at the pinnacle of his sport, having made more than 600 jumps from structures all over the world, including New York's Chrysler Building and a thirteenth-century cathedral in Germany.

Filippino, who spent 36 hours behind bars in 1989 for jumping in the park, argues that Yosemite's rangers treat BASE jumping in a manner that is completely out of proportion to the scale of the violation. "They had a freaking serial killer in Yosemite living right under their noses,"he says, "and federal agents were chasing BASE jumpers to death." Rangers, however, contend that jumpers have no business in Yosemite. "This is not a low-risk activity,"says Thompson. "Four jumpers have died in the park. It's just not appropriate here."

—SUSAN REIFER

gambler would huck it...

>>gambler would huck it...<<

That's a Nugget . . .

NickD
BASE 194

I don't know if I believe that...

The law (as the parks enforce it, unfortunately) is clear... The rangers were not hunting him to kill him like an animal - just arrest him, as their job description tells them they must. Law enforcment personnel cannot choose which laws to enforce and which to not enforce.

The jumper opted to run from the law instead of approach with professionalism and take the well established consequences of jumping this site and getting caught.

Not saying I would not run too, but it is hard to blame the rangers for doing what they are hired to do - enforce the laws as established, and chase someone running from the law.

I am about ready to get flamed. Let me practice... Ready, set, duck...

On a serious note - back to the topic at hand - if we want to change the laws, hatred and disrespect towards the people charged with enforcing the laws is not going to help. We need to change the laws from the top, not the job description of the Rangers hired to enforce laws.

Of course, in this particular case, the rangers were tipped off about the jump. This means they were waiting for him to make the jump so that they can chase him down and make the arrest.

You'd think that if they really believed BASE jumping was not appropriate use for the park, that they'd try to stop him from jumping before he damages whatever it is they think he's damaging.

Instead, they hid in the trees to wait for him to commit the crime, and then hunted him down for sport.

If a law enforcement officer is tipped off about a murder, do they wait for the murder to happen so they can arrest the fellow, or do they try to prevent the murder?

I'm not certain that's ever been proven. I've heard lots of accusations about that, but have yet to see any real evidence. Do you have some?

 
I don't blame them for his death. He was a big boy and knew exactly what he was doing when he dove in to that water. But stop and ask your self this: What does it say about our relationship with the rangers in the park when some one would rather risk death then fall into their hands. A policeman is charged to "To protect and to Serve" If the NPS has a slogan I don't know it. I'd like to think of rangers idealy as teachers and guides but I guess that's just a fucking pipe dream when in fact they turn out to be mean little despots. The ones the police wouldn't take and who couldn't find any one else who would let them cary a gun and lord over people.

Lee

Does it say the guy did not want to pay the fine and lose his gear? I can't believe he was actually running for his life, as if the rangers were going to mentally or physically hurt him.


Seriously guys - has anyone had such an unprofessional interaction with a ranger that they are deserving of these words? It seems like childish behaviour of kids who were caught drinking underage and hate the cops that caught them, instead of hating the underlying rule.

It is human nature to hate someone who enforces rules. But, do they really do it so unprofessionally that you would call them despots? If you want change - it has to come from the top, and with respect shown both directions.


Here is the job description from the nps.gov website:




LETS WORK ON CHANGE - and that is not going to be by bashing rangers for doing their job. Someone much higher than them decided to make the rules/laws... That needs to be the focus.

I couldn't agree more that communication is likely the only way for now. As many of you know, I have been a federal attorney for 30 years. I just retired. Much of my time was spent buying land for the National Park Service in Texas and Florida as well as helping prosecute a case against Florida to make them enforce water quality laws against the large sugar cane interests who's pollution was gettng into Everglades National Park.
It is totally wrong, unfair and disproportionate for any Rangers to have such a vicious attitude against BASE jumpers, and in the 80's some Rangers commonly referred to BASE jumpers in Yosemite as "Pukes". That attitude has relaxed some but Yosemite, the crown jewell, is still a big problem. Our problem is that even today, our sport is viewed by most authority figures and even normal people as crazy. All they envision is death and injury. While we know that BASE is getting safer due to better gear and techniques, it's hard for most NPS Officials to understand that. Some positive momentum was beginning at Yosemite but then the "safety demonstration" when Jan Davis died on El Cap probably set any progress back years. Face it, Courts will not likely give us a "Constitutional Right" to BASE jump so in my opinion, negotiation and respectful communication is the only way in the forseeable future to gain legal access to cliffs in National Parks. Just my own opinion.
Rick Harrison
BASE 38

Actually yes, and it had nothing to do with BASE jumping. I basically got hassled for doing something that was completely and totally legal, when I objected, things started getting ugly, and I had to make a hasty disappearance.

They spent the rest of the day searching for me, and rather than actually telling people what happened (they were searching vehicles), they fabricated a nice, little story explaining how they were looking for a criminal rather than someone who didn't agree with them.

So yeah, I don't trust them. And why anyone ever would is beyond me. Anybody that gets off on power can't be trusted.

it probably was a whole lot easier to sit at the lz, than spend hours hiking up. the report made it sound like a dawn jump, so should the rangers hike up at night?

and who knows, maybe they were on their way... he might have jumped before they arrived!

agreed. he was a willing participant, not an innocent bystander. I have trouble describing an intelligent, willing party as a "victim."


uh, there are plenty of POLICE you can call "despots..."

but I digress. at BD this year, I talked to several rangers. some obviously loved the event, but they made it clear they were from the public relations group. they pointed out only the enforcement officials carried guns... different rangers have different duties. attitudes, not uniforms, should receive our disdain.

The rangers in Yosemite, specifically, are well known for abusing their power over more than just BASE jumpers. There have been incidents with regular tourists where the rangers have gone way over the line.

And to Tom; No, I don't have any material evidence. Probably the same hearsay you've heard, but I've heard it a lot.

"Rangers in Yosemite" is a pretty big group of people. I'm sure it includes some folks who are a bit too impressed with their power.

But it also includes at least one guy who tipped jumpers off to stake outs on the big stone, and another guy who swapped leads with me up an easy route, watched me jump, and then walked off with the climbing gear. He also showed me some pretty cool back country exits that are jumpable during the day. Those two guys, at a minimum, do not deserve to be tarred with the same brush you're using to describe the power hungry wanna be cops.

Some people (I actually think it's the majority) take jobs in Yosemite simply because they want to live and work in Yosemite.

>>I'm not certain that's ever been proven.<<

Tom, you've been too busy counting money from those $400 gear rentals

Dirt bag live-in climbers have been ratting out BASE jumpers for years. How about Lincoln, he's been up there for years ratting out both jumpers and climbers for breaking the rules.

Most dirt-bag live in climbers' rat out BASE jumpers to curry favor with the Tools so as not to get thrown out of the camp grounds when they overstay.

And to the rest of you, with your "Frank was a big boy "shit" - please burn your BASE rigs and go back to the drop zone. Frank didn’t live long enough to become a big boy, and just like last time, you ranger collaborator sympathizers make me sick . . .

NickD
BASE 194

 
Ok, I'm going to back off on my statement. I souldn't make such generalazations. In all fairness I have met some really good people who work as rangers. Mostly working for the BLM. I once met a modern version of Edward Abbey Living out in a little tin trailer. On the other hand I've watched some of them really shit on people. I watched one totally humiliate a man in front of his wife and family. I've never seen a worse case of small dick syndrome. There just doesn't seem to be any in-between. I'm not sure why. People seem to be drawn to it for one of two reasons. Either they love it or they wont the power it confers. I wasn't very fair in my post. I was trying to make a point. But those guys really are out there and it truly saddens me.

Lee

Lee,

Look I know LEOs don't set out to be assholes.

Believe it or not I was a Reserve Police Officer in Erie, Colorado for a couple of years when I was younger. Then I thought, "Fuck, I gotta get away from this life."

And I'm sure most Rangers start out wanting to be, "Joe, the Friendly Campground Ranger" but they all too soon spend their shifts, not telling camp fire stories like they figured, but dealing with so many drunks, low lifes, and losers that they simply "go around the bend."

But you know what? That's their problem, and because they made a poor career choice doesn't mean we have to pay the price . . .

NickD
BASE 194

>>Nick, you deserve a lot of respect and credibility for a ton of stuff. please don't squander it. I want to BUY your book, not just read a friend's copy. I want to learn from you. but it's time you stop being so freakin high-minded! you seek to enrage and create outrage, making you sound like an irrate FOX noise commentator. <<

I'm hear you. And you're right. Thanks Brother . . .

NickD
BASE 194

I am not gonna burn my rig. Sorry.

And I still believe Frank made a decision to run instead of accept the consequences. He made the decision to jump. He knew the risks of jumping in the NPS. He saw the rangers. He dropped his gear and ran to avoid a fine and charge on his record. He could have raised his hands, said, "sorry, you got me" - had his day in court, paid the fine, lost his gear, and jumped again.

It is shitty he died - but I only blame him. If you are a big enough boy to jump off a cliff, you are big enough to accept the consequences.

You have in a previous post equated the rangers as hunters trying to kill a rabid animal. Can you prove to me that this jumper's life was truly in danger if he did not run? Do you think he ran because he was afraid the rangers would hurt him physically? Do you think he ran because he would not be afforded a day in court and was afraid he would be in jail without any rights? Do you think he feared torture in a basement cell with electrified sharp metal objects until he ratted out every BASE jumper he knew? Do you think the rangers were going to kill him? Did the rangers engage in shoot to kill weapon use?

It seems so anti-BASE like to not accept liability and responsibility for your own actions. If Frank was not a big boy - who should have told him how to react when he saw the rangers? Who should have protected him from the known - if you get caught - you get arrested - risk associated with most BASE jumping sites???? If he jumped from a building and saw a cop and ran into traffic without looking both ways, would you blame the cops? Running will always have risks.

But I sense your frustration. I agree it sucks that we have to run from the law in public lands. After all, our tax dollars pay for these lands. We should have access...

Well, I was going to shut up, but I can't . . .

tdog, you write well and express your thoughts better than most, but you're wrong. Gee, sometimes I feel like the last gomer carrying the black death flag here. My generation isn’t all that computer literate so there is no one here backing my play. But I'm really getting tired of waiting for our day to come. Thank goodness tomorrow night is Halloween. It’s the only night I can legally run down the street in LA with a mask on . . .

NickD
BASE 194

While the NPS is often too aggressive in their pursuit of BASE jumpers, I don't "blame" them for Frank's death. And now that I've had time to digest this thread, some of you have to be kidding yourselves if you think the NPS will open Yosemite if we boycotted Bridge Day 2008. You might be able to gain some attention towards local issues (small six hour jumping window, $10/jumper fees), but not 2000 miles away at Yosemite.

Face it, we're a bunch of disorganized adrenaline junkies. If we want Yosemite re-opened, then we need an organization to lead us. And this organization needs DEDICATED leaders to do all the things you guys mentioned in this thread. I've been a part of the CJAA and ABP, but both lacked good leadership and staff dedication. The best scenario would be for BASE jumpers to pay annual fees to support an organization that'll work FULL TIME on opening new sites and maintaining old ones.

The good news is that, even though I might disagree with you, and you might disagree with me - we still can get along (I hope), even though I never have met you in real life.

Sometime send me a PM or e-mail telling me why I am wrong. I am willing to open my ears. I need facts to prove I am wrong - as I once was told - never believe anything you read.

Have fun with the masks tonight.

You have in a previous post equated the rangers as hunters trying to kill a rabid animal. Can you prove to me that this jumper's life was truly in danger if he did not run? Do you think he ran because he was afraid the rangers would hurt him physically? Do you think he ran because he would not be afforded a day in court and was afraid he would be in jail without any rights? Do you think he feared torture in a basement cell with electrified sharp metal objects until he ratted out every BASE jumper he knew? Do you think the rangers were going to kill him? Did the rangers engage in shoot to kill weapon use?
First off I'm with you. He made the choice of the danger he wanted to face. Second, he had just jumped off a rock. If he wasn't a big boy able to make his own decisions then there was a much bigger problem. All I'm saying is that he stood there looking at the two choices and he chose to face the river. Why did he fear the NPS so much? I don't know. I've never fallen into their hands but there are stories. I'm not saying they're true and I'm not going to repeat them here with out direct knowledge but I've heard them repeated from different sources over the years. And when have we ever had an impartial day in court? Maybe I'm just bitter over how they shot down the lake Powel case but there seems to be more then a little bias against us in the court system there. I hold no hope of fair and equitable treatment before the drum head. Personally I think I would have taken my chances in the river.

Lee