Basejumper.com - archive

Has there been any discussion about making canopies out of whatever the name of PDs new reserve material is? I had heard it was stronger than F111 and from handling it, it definately packs up quite a bit smaller, almost feels like silk.

Trango

I'm not sure if it's the same material but the canopy packs up very small. If you see Chris Mc, Take a look at his and compare his rig to yours.

The canopy uses microline. For the usual jumping we do, it's not such a good idea but for big walls, big hikes, it seems like a great idea.

I had the opportunity to view and test "cuben fiber" a few years ago and it will amaze you. Looks like a Walmart plastic shopping bag, but is several times stronger than F111. Only comes in white and was originally developed for sails on ships.

Is this what you're talking about? I know some skydiving and base canopies have used it, but I haven't been following the technology lately....

Not sure exactly what the material is called, but its only available in orange and it packs around 2 sizes smaller, ie a 113PDR is around a 143 optimum. Looks like Tim is right and the Trango is very similar.

http://www.performancedesigns.com/products.asp?product=op

 attair gets their material from PD for the trango, at least they did last fall...

FALSE !
Atair get the material for the TRANGO directly from Porcher, a french fabirc manufacturer. PD has a different source

In Skydiving Mag this month (Oct 2007) Sandy Reid published his canopy volume tests using the PIA standards:

Code

The chart shows that a Optimum 106 actually has more volume than a PDR of the same size. However, the 143 is considerably smaller as an Optimum. It seems that some of the non-fabric aspects of the canopy (binding tape, layers of fabric, reiforcement, etc) is heavier on the Optimum, as if the fabric is thinner, a 106 Optimum actually has less surface area than a PDR, but has more volume - something is taking up that space?

About the fabric. I was having a casual conversation from someone at PD about using the Optimum as a wingsuit canopy for airplane jumps (reliable low openings). I asked questions about canopy wear, I.E. would an Optimum be a good choice for a canopy that is deployed often instead of packed a few times a year.

They pretty much told me that they highly recommended not using the Optimum fabric for anything but a reserve, as they felt the fabric made a poor choice for repeated deployments... This one just one PD employee, but a knowledgeable one, so I respected their opinion. They sent me a link to a FAQ pdf file on the PD site that basically used words that were a bit less harsh, but on the same theme.

Note - I did not specifically ask if the Optimum would outlast F111, but their reply of canopy choices that would outperform the Optimum for my desired use included F111 canopies.

Also - they told me that they were having a hard time scaling the Optimum bigger than the 143 and in the discussion the fabric was mentioned. If a BASE canopy is in the 230-310 sqft range, and they can't get a Optimum larger than 143 - I see a huge gap. The question becomes, fabric vs planform... Why is PD having problems? I suspect the accurate and detailed answers are in the confidential minds of the PD employees in the R&D department behind locked doors.

BTW - from packing an optimum a few times, I noticed:

1) It can be slippery and if trash packed into a stash bag, it holds its memory and is hard to fold back into reserve folds and get in a container. If it comes clean from the factory - it is easy to fold.

2) The canopy has a lot of reinforcement that you don't seem to see on other reserves. (Hooknswoop noticed the same thing when we were packing together) First impression says - PD either wanted to really make it beefy, or, they felt the fabric needed it. But I have no proof.

You are definitely correct.

Do you know if the two fabrics are otherwise identical?

Very interesting analysis. Makes me kind of wonder about the demos they have circulating around, and how many deployments they consider to be too many. I know we jumped the crap out of the one we had at the dz for the weekend, ie probably 20+ jumps in two days.

they probably will carefully inspect the demo once returned. use this as an opportunity to study the parachute's durability in "the real world."

I know PD does extensive test jumping, but issues can still appear...

"at least they did last fall" - My mistake. when I talked to stane last fall he said they were getting it from pd.. Maybe there was something lost in translation?

I forget where I read or heard it, but I remember PD admitting that the Optimum fabric is weaker than F111, but it's strong enough to use as a reserve with all the reinforcing they do. The advantages to the Optimum seem to be the lower pack volume and better flight characteristics. It seems to open softer from terminal too in my limited experience on reserves.

I'm guessing that the Trango being limited to slider up use only is also admitting that it wouldn't handle the additional forces from a deep slider down opening well.

ask manufacturer they will answer you as they did some test of their equipment