Basejumper.com - archive

Lauterbrunnen, 30/9-2007
Sorry to say but we just had the second fatality in the valley this year. An young guy from Ukraina jumped from Yellow Oean today, pulled to low and died..

do you know if there was any reason why he didnt pull on time?
very sad.
my sympathys to all his loved ones.
fly free brother.

 

His friends will tell details today with descriptions of what happened. More detaljs and pics are coming soon.

Wioletta

Here is pictures of the PC.

http://www.skycentre.net/index.php?showtopic=5139&st=0

did he have anything out when he impacted? or did he tow the pilot all the way in?
How high was he more or less when he pulled?

I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend.

the foto of the pc is strange.....did anyone see an entanglement like this before...?

fly free bro.....

that's some scary stuff... i hope no one minds me posting the picks over here... it took a while for the link to load for me, so i figured i'd save others some trouble.

my deepest condolences.

Condolences.

video
http://video.mail.ru/mail/ren55/lelik_555/112.htm

condolences to family and friends.

I didn't click on the link, but I just want to say that if it is what I think it is, I have a problem with footage like that being broadcast for public viewing.
The only people who need ot see that are those investigating the incident and setting up the incident report. It's so easy now for that to get into the wrong hands.

Plankton forgot the "l" on the end of .html to make the link work by the way.

There is no footage of the actual impact, it doesn't seem to be harmful posting.

Condolences to family and friends. So sad

Clicky or not, impact or not, it is broadcast for public viewing on the site.
What is the use of that?

It is probably compressed for the web so my guess is there wouldn't be much for us to learn from it.

Witness accounts, pics of the gear, incident report, sure, no problem with that. I just think there is an irony here when you express your condolences to the family and friends but don't think there is any harm in their son's/brother's/friend's last jump being broadcast over the net for public viewing.

Not in BASE. But I have had this exact entanglement on a tandem drogue before. It causes the PC to be towed by the side so the the ZP section can not catch any air.

Condolences.

Any chances the malfunction was created while changing/packing the pilot chute and not by the random factors contributing during pilot chute extraction/inflation?
Anyone know the packing method of the PC (mushroom/other)?

(edited to add the second question)

is the red thing a internalhandel?

I had this type of mal 2 times on skydives,my thourghts were i packed my pc in a wrong way,never had it since i started using the mushroom..

any who know how he packed this pc?

Just thourghts no conclutions...

Fly free Bro

Why would there be an internal handle, if there already is an external showed by photos "plankton" posted here.

I dont know,but how does you explain the red thing(dosnt look like blood to me) inside then??
Also it looks like the knot has surronded this thing. but it might just be me..

I would say the red thing is stitching that is used to sew the PC upper surface material to the mesh fabric. You can see more of it in: http://www.basejumper.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=84346
between the ZP and mesh fabrics. Or that's how I see it...

This is the information from The Ukraine team.
Cheers
Wioletta

Hello my name is Dima (aka Maverick), I jumped with Oleg and I would like to tell you the information that we know.

About Oleg:
Oleg had 57 base jumps and about 600 skydive.
He did not like to drink and in general he was a very sporty person.
Base: We jumped from low objects (90-100 meters) and he did not like to do low pulls.
Skydive: He was jumping in 4 way team and in general he had approximetly 600 jumps (I don t now exactly) plus he had a wing tunnel time (Malaysia).

The Jump
It was 2 way from Yellow Ocean. Oleg was lower and Dryg (our friend) was above.
Dryg filmed (you could already find this video on the internet). Oleg had a really bad exit. However approximetly on the 4 seconds he started to track (quite good). On the 8 seconds Oleg move his hand to the pilot chute. In the same time Dryg throw his pilot chute.
After that Drygs parachute was oppened. In 3 seconds he could hear a sound of a hit.

After
We found Olegs body and he was dead. He feld down into the trees and he died immediately (thanks God). We came to the helicopter station and they called the police, the rescue service and a doctor. In 20 minutes all services came (thanks to the all of them).

The next day we checked the system and found that the bridle had a knot and the pilot chute did not work.
Our version is that before throwing he took out the pilot chute and showed it (they agreed before the jump that the lower person has to give a sign before throwing). In this time the bridle went into the wind and when he throws the pilot chute the knot created. He was waiting for 2 or 3 second for the opening...but nothing happened.

Over thoughts
In general everything looked good and his body position was ok.
Before the opening he was worry about the upper person and that why he wanted to show his pilot chute before the pull.
He took the pilot chute out and hold it in his hand a second, in this time the bridle came out. When he thought the pilot shout the bridle made a knot on the pilot chute.

He did everything correct but he died.

Emotions
He was a very nice and positive person. He was a sportsman. For us (ukrainian team) he was a friend. He did everything correct but died. He was very good person and we are missing him...


If you have any further question, please contact me dima-l@ukr.net

Sorry for the loss again for the whole ukrainian team.
What I understand, and the previous post decribes, keeping PC out in fast airstream before releasing is an effective way to create PC malfunctions. The airstream stretches the bridle in inverted U-shape above the PC, which when released may hit the (looped) bridle and cause a knot. That way of deploying a parachute is not "doing everything correct".
Vesa

I am very sorry to hear about this. Could you describe the folding/ stowing method this jumper used for his pilot chute?

From Maverick
We do not know...
But we usualy use the norwegian mashroom. He was always very fussy with everything..

Video from the jump http://video.mail.ru/mail/ren55/lelik_555/112.html

Hey Harry,
Yeah, to answer that question the exact same type of pilot chute entenglement happend to "choky" (spelling?) an aussie jumper in Kerag last year. I have pictures of that pilot chute somewhere on my hard drive that i ll try to dig up. If i remember right it was caused by the exact same thing. He held the pilot chute in his hand in order to regain stability. Luckily for him even though the pilot chute was colapsed by the knot, there was enough force to pop the pins but he had to turn on his back to get the canopy to leave the container...
Someone may have more details about that incident.
Very freaky gear mishap!!
Bottom line is don't hold the pilot chute once it's out of the BOC...

RIP.

Is 'Dryg' your friend's name, or is that just the Ukrainian for 'friend'?

Next time wave off with your arms instead of with your pilot chute. It is always a good idea in skydiving, it is usually not needed in BASE. If you want to on a BASE jump, just wave both arms above your head right before you reach back to toss the pilot chute. It is an effective and much less dangerous way than holding onto the pilot chute to signal before deployment.

An alternate way would be to just hesitate for a second with your hand on the pilot chute before you pull it, but I think the wave off would be better and safer. On shorter jumps it would probably be better to just agree on timing. On a terminal jump if you have enough horizontal separation you could also just watch the higher jumper pull.

The knot seems to be a simple overhand knot (see pic). How this is possible? For this to happen, the bridle needs to form a loop, PC go on the side of it, then bridle go up faster than PC with PC passing inside the loop. Anyone who knows knots well see how this could have happened?

Very sorry for your friend...
Condolences to family.
Sad news..

I just listened to the video with a good set of earphones. Does anyone else hear what I do just prior to impact?

If so this video should be taken down before some sicko audio enhances it and puts it on Youtube . . .

NickD
BASE 194

I've heard about, after pitching, the PC can "twist" or spin a little while the bridle is going to extension. Could this twisting have caused the PC to entangle and knot the bridle?

Imagine in the photo the cap twisting back towards the jumper or "spinning". I'm just throwing this out there, I know nothing about this incident.

Condolences to family and friends...

Ye, I was also wondering about that. I think I was letting my prejudice blind me and had to take a few steps back. I was looking at it in that when I change my pc, there is only a certain size loop it will go through; Here, the whole bridle was out. We take it the guy was a heads up jumper and other people seem to have looked at his bridle before the jump.

I had to make myself a sketch once again to try and make sense of it.

Lauterbrunnen/BE. Bei einem erfahrenen Base-Jumper öffnete sich der Schirm aus noch zu klärenden Gründen nicht, woraufhin er stürzte und tödlich verletzt wurde.
Am Sonntagnachmittag, 30. September begab sich eine fünfköpfige Gruppe zu ihrem zweiten Absprung an diesem Tag an die Staldenfluh. Nachdem zuerst zwei Personen ihre Sprünge nacheinander absolviert hatten, wollten die beiden nächsten Base-Jumper ihren Sprung parallel absolvieren.
Bei einem der Beiden, einem erfahrenen Base-Jumper, öffnete sich der Schirm aus noch zu klärenden Gründen zu spät, so dass er praktisch ungebremst in eine Baumkrone prallte und von dort ins steile und unwegsame Gelände unterhalb des Wandfusses abstürzte. Der unverzüglich vor Ort eingetroffene Notarzt konnte nur noch den Tod des Mannes feststellen.
Beim tödlich verunfallten Base-Jumper handelt es sich um einen 30-jährigen Mann aus der Ukraine.




Lauterbrunnen/BE. The canopy of an experienced BASE-Jumper did not open do to reasons still under investigation and resulted in deadly injuries.

Sunday afternoon, 30th of September a group of 5 jumpers went for there second jump of the day to the Staldenfluh (side of yellow ocean and la mouse). After 2 of the group jumped one by one, the next two jumpers wanted to do a “parallel” (2-way) jump.
For one of the 2 jumpers, an experienced BASE Jumper, the canopy opened do to reasons still under investigation to late, and the jumper crashed almost in full speed into a tree and from there into the steep terrain underneath the wall. The Doctor that arrived immediately could only confirm the death of the man.
The deceased jumper is a 30 year old male from the Ukraine.

your drawing makes sense....helps to get it...

What size is the PC?

yes Nick.
I heard the exact same thing. The noise of impact a few seconds after the other jumpers canopy opened.
Not a very fitting tribute to the poor guys family if this gets into the wrong hands Should be deleted if you ask me...

fly free Oleg

You nailed it.

Here are some photos of the pilot chute entanglement in Kerag I was talking about a few posts up.
This entanglement did not result in a fatality

scarry shit...

I had a bridle-hackey mal on a wingsuit skydive a year ago, but I thought getting rid of the hackey would do it...

RIP

>>yes Nick. I heard the exact same thing. The noise of impact a few seconds after the other jumpers canopy opened.<<

No, not the sound of the impact itself. Just prior to that - listen again and more carefully.

Edited to add: They took the video down, thank goodness . . .

NickD
B.A.S.E. 194

did the jumper on this jump (kjerak) hold the pc for a while or throw it "the right way"...?
how did he fold the pc???

thats what i got from a post by his freind, on the first page i think.

ok..ok... when you can read you are in advantage....

so the question is is there maybe a way to fold the pc to prevent something like this, or is it bad luck and can happen all the time...what do you think...

the way i see it is if you hold the PC after extracting it from the BOC, it does not matter AT ALL how you packed it.

I am with you on that one Calvin... I think once the pilot chute is out of the pouch and you hold it in your hand even for a short period of time, it does not matter what packing technique was used.
The bridle and the pilot chute material will just dance chaotically in the the air.

Release it at the exact wrong time when the bridle is forming a loop and you can end up with the pilot chute choked in a manner that will prevent it from inflating.

I still believe this fatality to be extremely unlucky as the probabilty of an entanglement is low even if you hold the pilot chute for a second prior to pitching it.

Obviously, the probability of it happening is still high enough to make holding a pilot chute in your hand prior to throwing it a bad and risky technique...

Fly Free brother...

i agree,...but i know two people that "can pull" and had the same problem...was wingsiut-BASE and happend 2 in a row...no hackey shit or something else...luckyly was enough alitude and time to open...

so it happens more often than i thought...

I think it would also depend on how much "loose" bridle there is after pulling from the BOC, and how much bridle is contained within the bundle of PC. If there was just enough loose bridle to extract to arm's length, there wouldn't be any flapping in the airstream trying to tangle.

Lying in a box position, on your bed with your rig on you may be able to get that right.... In freefall that might be a little more difficult.

To elaborate a bit more; A better way to signal to the high person would be to reach for, but not throw your Pilot chute, but rather hold it, WITHOUT REMOVING IT FROM THE BOC POUCH for a second or two. When the higher jumper sees the reach, that is his signal to pitch.

I've felt your pain and it sucks. Condolences.
pope

edit: didn't read all the way through. This was already suggested.
cheers.

"To elaborate a bit more; A better way to signal to the high person would be to reach for, but not throw your Pilot chute, but rather hold it, WITHOUT REMOVING IT FROM THE BOC POUCH for a second or two. When the higher jumper sees the reach, that is his signal to pitch."

Pope. I must disagree on this one. In skydiving this is discouraged because then you don't know WHEN the person is going to pull, only that he is going to pull. It also takes time which you have in skydiving but not in base. A second or 2?? Being low, no way.

To go back to the start, if you do a 2-way you should have a plan, a plan what do do if it goes wrong, and stick to the plan. I am not sure if the Ukr. team had a plan and what it consisted about, but for sure the plan was not to hold the PC for a long time, regardless of the good intentions.

About the bridle dancing a lot in the wind. Of course it does. I have seen it a few times (in skydiving). The only thing I can say about that it that 1) it can lead to PC malfunctions and 2) the closer you have the PC to your body, the more the bridle will dance (due to body turbulance and less tension on the bridle)

I am not sure how much the influence is of the way the PC is held in the hand. With hand-held jumps, the bridle is below the PC, so when releasing it, the PC is above the bridle. When you do BOC jumps, the bridle is aside the PC, and the PC should catch more air then the bridle, so again, the PC ends up above the bridle. When you do a BOC jump and hold the PC in your hand, the bridle ends up above the PC....

Ronald

oh man... this is just so sad.
Yuri, when I saw the pic you posted I realized that the PC almost made it through the loop...
A millisecond difference and it would just be a knot on the bridle and a scary story...

Condolences.

right, but that is skydiving. the pull window is about 3000'. a normal altitude to deploy is between 2000 and 5000'.

on a BASE jump, even in the best case scenario, the pull range is between 1000 and ~250'. it takes 3 seconds to cover that much distance.

I think that either a toe tap, or a hand on the PC is the best way to do it. a wave off is to much work and takes to much time. even a toe tap is weird.

a person should never be tracking or flying in a position that were a deployment could happen at anytime and they fly into the packjob.

so basicaly, if you absolutely HAVE to give the 'i'm about to pull' signal, whatever it is, you planned the jump poorly.

Edited:for 'refrigerator magnet letter spelling'

I agree with Pope, thats the way most people do it. In my team a 2-way can be "so maybe a two way?" when you are on the exit point ... in other words, not really that planed.

Reach and wait for a second ... hav been working for me and Martin 3-400 times

Pope, stay disco!

PerFlare
swedish base team

Hi Ronald!
Why not a second or two? Maybe you only jump really low shit, but this thread is about a fatality in LB--where generally you should have at least that kind of time to make that signal seen. like you say, in your plan. Please explain though what you mean by having "a plan what to do if it goes wrong." I'm just curious where you're coming from, and what some of the "wrong" scenarios would be, AND what your secondary plans would be in those situations.

cheers!
pope

PS: Per, you owe me an exit point my friend!

Hi Pope,

Being from Holland I don't just jump low shit, I have about 40 jumps in LB. And some more from other cliffs.
A second or two maybe is not a lot from a high cliff, unless you are low and still picking up speed, or being on terminal speed already. That is something I would like to avoid.

I guess basically it boils down to planning. A plan could be jumping a two way, and you say who goes to the left and who to the right, or who is exits first and is low and who exits second and is high. Scenario two would decide who pulls first. Lower person has right of way (right?).

Wrong scenarios could be the lower person exiting unstable (or bad exit-bad track) which forces him to open early because of wall being close. The higher person should now what to do in this situation.
Other wrong scenario could be second person being on directly above first (lower) person.

IMHO I think when doing a multiple way issues like this should be discussed.

That's all,
Ronald

Right...I agree that planning is important! And I also hear what you're saying about the scenarios, but what would you make the plan in case of these circumstances? What do you think the high guy should do?

I have a couple of jumps from high objects as well, and in my experience, the method I mentioned is almost infallable, with the exception of someone *thinking* that they're holding for long enough, but actually aren't. What if the high guy is checking his altitude for a half second or more at the same time the low guy is holding?

The whole idea of holding the PC IN THE POUCH in this situation is to help account for the unexpected.

In the end, adding others to your jump is increasing the risk, and ultimately, we're all alone in big surf...if you're going in, you're going to throw your PC whether your buddies are there or not. Yet another thing we should all know when stepping off for a multi-way.
pope

When I teached stowed deployment, I recommend that students put their hand back on the PC well in advance of the pitch (how much in advance depends on the altitude, but I usually say "a second or so"). I recommend this for two reasons:

1) To ensure a good grip on the PC. I've seen several near misses, and also a couple accidents, result from "snatch and throw" type PC tosses. I prefer to deliberately grasp the PC (I usually squeeze it in my palm while it's still in the BOC) to ensure a good grip on a firm handle, before pitching.

2) To warn others on the jump that you are going to pitch.

I think the first reason is more important, but I discuss both of them when teaching.